Forum Topic

Dodge City, TW8....

Saw the police roping off the entrance to Syon Lane station tonight 9.30 and an ambulance present.It seems to be getting like Dodge City around here if you count up all the violent incidents that have happened in the last year or so...maybe it's time to use some of the extra council tax gathered locally from all the new flats to pay for the police stn. to open 24/7 to reduce response times and to have a greater police presence when needed.Has anyone else received the questionairre sent out by the local police regarding issues on local crime etc. I have spoken to a couple of people and none of them received it.There seems to be a mounting level of criminality around here,:the recent assault on the 3 men opp.Commerce rd,the lady who was assaulted on the canal tow path and the muggings there,the robberies in the subway at Gillette corner,the taxi driver assaulted on York Parade,and there are quite a few more if you follow what is happening in the parish.Depressing, isn't it.....?

Keith Iddon ● 6961d48 Comments

If a crime isnt responded to or if people give up reporting crime  how can we ever know the true figures? Every day I speak to someone who "hasnt bothered because the police dont care"

Jean Gilmore ● 6937d

"The police say that crime is falling but this is because they dont respond to a great many of the calls"The British Crime Survey isn't compiled by the police. It does actually confirm that a lot of crime doesn't get reported but it also clearly shows that unreported and reported violent crime are falling.The Reform group have issued a report today showing the level of crime in various cities. London ranks 29th out of 57. Within the London area Hounslow is about average and has nowhere near the crime of areas like Hackney and Islington. I haven't read the report in detail - just looked at the tables - but it is on Reform's website. Within the borough I don't get the impression that Brentford has as much crime as places like Feltham and Hounslow town centre.

Andy Jones ● 6937d

The sky isnt just falling over  Brentford, it is falling over a great deal of London. The police say that crime is falling but this is because they dont respond to a great many of the calls

Jean Gilmore ● 6938d

Okay, Keith. I bow to your carefully thought out reasoning and your masterful command of the data. You are right and the sky is indeed falling (if only over Brentford). I, and others, are cursed with a peculiar form of myopia which does not allow us to see the descent into anarchy all around us. Shame on me for using facts and the evidence of my own experience to form an opinion.

Dan Evans ● 6938d

Yeah, my posting was about LOCAL crime, couldn't you read that from your high horse...your sarcasm is much appreciated as it shows how much you are out of touch with what is going on locally and only seem interested in proving what in this case is irrelevant to the original thread..Like you,the Home Office really has revealed how it has its finger on the pulse of the times in the past couple of weeks.

Keith Iddon ● 6938d

Keith, it doesn't seem like you will be able to grasp this if I use words so there is a nice picture on the following link that should make things clear for you.http://www.crimestatistics.org.uk/output/Page63.asp

Dan Evans ● 6943d

Yeah, that's very reassuring...now make your sentences even shorter...

Keith Iddon ● 6943d

Keith, you are nothing if not persistant but once again you are taking the Daily Mail approach to 'the statistics'. I've explained this point before but I make the sentences shorter this time so that some people won't miss the point. There are two main types of statistics that people use re crime. Firstly the notifiable offences published by the police. Secondly the British Crime Survey which is a Home Office Study based on interviews with the public. The British Crime survey shows a steady decline in violent crime over the last decade. The police's figures were mirroring that trend until recently when there was an apparent increase in the number of violent crimes. However this may be due to the new powers that the police have to issue fixed penalty notices. Before if there was a fight in a pub for instance the police might just send people on their way - now they can issue an on the spot fine. This means that offences that weren't recorded are now in the system.I don't know why it is such an article of faith for you that crime is on the rise. It seems to be a peculiar belief to cling to in the face the evidence. There is really no need to be such a gloomy soul.

Dan Evans ● 6943d

The statistics, nationally, show that VIOLENT CRIME has been on the increase. I'm not talking about bike theft etc.I'm talking about muggings at knife point, violent assaults...not having your bike stolen.I'm also not having a pop at the police as they have a society that has an increasing lack of respect for authority in general to deal with and have had their powers nullified by high levels of paperwork and political correctness.

Keith Iddon ● 6943d

Debate along these lines crops up periodically on ChiswickW4.com. Many people are convinced that crime is rising but the statistics show that it is not. We have had some very high profile crimes recently and there are problems in areas such as bike theft and teens having mobiles and Ipods stolen but violent crime is very rare and this is definitely an improvement compared to four or five years ago. My impression is that the police have got much more professional in keeping people informed about crime and in their relations with the press. Some people assume that because they are hearing about more crime due to the higher level of coverage there must be more crime but they are wrong.

Justin Harris ● 6944d

Kevin, I have been a resident of Brentford nearly four years and am speaking from my experience of Brentford(the local paper reports,the reports on the home page of tw8, the police placards placed on the roads after an incident).I have not 'seen one crime and read about a few others'and can't comment on what the picture was 5 or 10 years agoas I didn't live in the parish then.

Keith Iddon ● 6944d

Tim.  Sgt Green has replied herself, above at 4.30.

Sarah Felstead ● 6944d

I emailed the team asking about the questionnaire and got the following response today :Hi Tim,thank you for e-mailing the Syon Safer Neighbourhoods Team.  I must apologise for the late reply, but we have only just been shown how to access the e-mail system for our wards!  In answer to your question, I as the Sgt in charge of Ston ward decided that I would give everybody the chance to have their say and complete the questionnaire.  We have so far delivered in excess of 1,500 and we reckon that we have another 2,000 to go.  So please forgive me that we haven't got to --------- Road yet (but your road is on our ward and you will be getting one!). I shall read the article on the forum page with interest.Kind regardsSgt Bev Green 75TXSyon Safer Neighbourhoods TeamBrentford Police Station0208 247 5989

Tim Henderson ● 6944d

Lovely to hear from you Sgt Green.If you are using the leafleting to get to know your area you will want to deliver the remaining leaflets - but if you want a hand, I can do some for you.Sgt Peter Murphy has my contact details and might be prepared to vouch that I would deliver them and not tuck them over the railway bridge on the waste land ...  ;-)

Sarah Felstead ● 6944d

Let me introduce myself I am Sgt Bev Green 75TX.  On 3rd April 2006, the Met underwent a change whereby ALL wards now have their own Safer Neighbourhood Team.  I am in charge of Syon Ward and have a team of 1 constable and 2 Police Community Support Officers (PCSO's).  This will hopefully be rising by a further Constable and PCSO before the end of the year.  I decided to give everybody the chance to fill in a questionnaire on Syon Ward. Please bear with us, we have so far deleivered in excess of 1,500 questionnaires and we have about another 2,000 to deliver.  We are doing our deliveries in between dealing with our general work.  You should have all the quesionnaires out by the end of the month hopefully!

Sgt Bev Green ● 6944d

Philip - I'm sorry I think I got this wrong. I searched for the story and this is the only one I foundhttp://www.brentfordtw8.com/info/cctv454.htmThought it was a 267 bus attack not a H28

Andy Jones ● 6944d

Are you sure? Maybe this was another incident Can you tell me when they were on the site I would like to confirm they were the ones and if they were why I was told they were destroyed.

Philip Walsh ● 6944d

But the CCTV stills were published on this site so somebody must have got them in the end.

Andy Jones ● 6944d

It sounds like you have a good reason to use the Independent Police Complaints Commission.Are you having a laugh, this commission is a farce set up to con people that independent scrutiny of the police force was/is a reality. This commission only investigates serious misconduct of very senior officers, all other complaints are dealt with by an inspector at one of the police stations in the sector where the officer(s) you are making the complaint about, work. This means that you don't even have the possible chance of a separate division looking at your complaint. All police stations in the borough are supposed to have an Inspector on duty to take complaints from the public but in reality they don’t. You will be lucky to find a Police Officer of any rank at Brentford. At Chiswick they are usually busy elsewhere and you have to wait for one to come from Hounslow and in my own experience they are not that interested if you go to Hounslow.

Philip Walsh ● 6944d

Hi Kevin this is the same case, only as I said public safety is not important enough to succour the footage

Philip Walsh ● 6944d

" I suppose some would argue that because a gobby teenage scum bag doesn't get seven bells kicked out of him everytime he steps out of line means we live in a less violent society."...crumbs! real passion in them-their-words!

Sarah Felstead ● 6944d

Not sure what estate you are referring to M but I am talking about Brentford in general and my own personal experiences. There used to be fighting every Friday and Saturday night outside several of the local pubs and they were a no go area for anyone simply wanting a drink. There are one or two now that I would avoid but even there I don't think the level of violence is anywhere near what it was. I haven't seen a fight in a pub for years but once upon a time it was a guaranteed part of the evening's entertainment.The statistics do actually confirm this so what has changed is not the reality of crime but our perception of it. I don't think Keith is necessarily being helpful in concluding from seeing one crime and reading about a few others in the press and on this site that things are getting worse.Having said this I do feel less secure when walking home in the evening. 5 years ago some spotty youth wouldn't have dared given me lip but now they know I'd be in serious trouble if I laid a finger on them and it does wind me up that they can get away with so much. The problem we have at the moment is not rising violence or crime in general but a lack of respect. I suppose some would argue that because a gobby teenage scum bag doesn't get seven bells kicked out of him everytime he steps out of line means we live in a less violent society.

Andy Jones ● 6945d

kevin - that absolute rubbish about the estate being more dangerous 5 and even 10 years ago. i was bought up the estate and i was never worried about coming home at night on my own, whereby i would be now. the fact that it had a curfew installed on it says everyhting i think.

M Dowling ● 6945d

My overwhelmingly sad view about crime around Brentford,is that I would have little confidence in walking along the delightful Grand Union Canal from the Great West Road to Brentford Bridge following at least 3 crime incidents along there during the past 12 months.Do you remember the separate cases of Office Workers being mugged of their expensive and important pieces of electronics?..by some yobbo on a bike?What about the lady who was attacked by some boys on bikes..and sadly finished up in hospital. the Police never reported back to me about any success with their enquiries.

Jim Lawes ● 6945d

it sounds like you have a good reason to use the Independent Police Complaints Commission. Their website is at http://www.ipcc.gov.uk/, let me know if there's anything I can do.

Matt Harmer ● 6945d

Dan, don't particularly like the 'an intelligent person'remark, but I'll let it pass and put it down to your conceit...my original posting wasn't intended as a pop at the police, as you seem to imply. If you're that clever why can't you see that your original posting(went to lunch down by the river and saw no crime...')might seem glib and offhand when there is a serious issue at stake.Put 'national crime statistics'into google and chose the Home Office sight and follow the cues.My original posting only mentioned violent crime, not all crime as you seem to think. You mention that in urban areas the may be more 'reason' for more iof this sort of crime. I should imagine that if you are unlucky enough to have your head stamped on or to get a kicking off someone, it feels the same no matter what their excuse for doing it is.

Keith Iddon ● 6945d

There was coverage recently of an assault on a 267 bus with CCTV stills - was this a different one?As for Dodge City my own view is that this was a much more violent dangerous place 5 years ago and even more so 5 years before that. Compared to other parts of London this is a relatively crime free area - although it probably doesn't feel like that to Philip. Sorry to hear about the attack - have you got a description of the toerags?

Andy Jones ● 6945d

What do you expect with the level of incompetence the local Police show?A couple of weeks ago I was assaulted on a 267 bus you may of read about it was in all the local papers. The police officer who was supposed to be in charge of the investigation apparently went on leave with out passing the case on. This meant that nobody applied to Fulwell Bus Garage for the CCTV footage from the bus for two weeks by which time the tape was recorded over as the tapes are only kept for 5 days; this is something the Police are well aware of. It was also something I had anticipated and had independently contacted Transport for London about. They E.mailed a request for the Identification and retention of these tapes from both the 267 and the 65 bus the assailants made their escape on. Unfortunately and unbelievably it was decided that the E-mail contained too little information for the lazy sod that received it to be bothered to even try and identify the tapes. The E-mail was sent on the day of the incident and within about three hours of it. At least one Inspector new of the incident I spoke to him about it on my way back from the hospital and he informed me that the bus garage knew ail about it as the 267 had to be turned around early as it was running late after the incident. He apparently never submitted any paperwork about the incident are about the complaint I made over the driver not contacting the police I, despite being covered in blood had to do that. 2 if not three drivers were also aware the driver of the 267 on which the assault took place (he apparently did not bother to submit a incident report for a week despite knowing the tapes were only kept for 5 days) The driver of the 65 may or may not have known (the driver of the 267 did not use his radio to inform the garage who could have had the bus stopped, both the 267 and the 65 operate from Fulwell. the driver of the 267 on the way back from the Hospital also Knew of the incident as I discussed it with him just prior to the inspector boarding the bus. So don’t be surprised about the levels of violence round here as nobody in authority seems to care less about your safety only that we keep giving them the cash to sit on their backsides. In fact the only Good News is that PC Robert Roberts a well Known uniformed thug was given a 12 week prison sentence for attacking a member of the public and also assaulting a fellow police officer who didn't help him in the assault. So I guess Dodge City is not a bad comparison.

Philip Walsh ● 6945d

Keith - as you made up a number before to prove your bogus case I simply don't believe you. Provide us with some exact references and you might have some credibility although urban areas do have more crime than rural for all sorts of reasons so you would still be a long way from proving that Brentford was the Wild West. The fact that I say that I have seen crime doesn't mean I am saying it doesn't exist but that it isn't as all pervasive as you claim. An intelligent person shouldn't need that explained to them.

Dan Evans ● 6946d

Dan,go to the Home Office crime stas and you will see that Hounslow has had 60 odd% more violence against the person crime than the national average...still, you haven't seen any so it can't be true...

Keith Iddon ● 6946d

I haven't written any scare stories...just highlighted the facts about local violent crime.If your head wasn't in the sand you might have seen the reports over the last 18 mths. Dodge City was supposed to be an irony, not a comparison.

Keith Iddon ● 6949d

"Could you be more complacent and unempathic to those who have suffered real crime ,Dan?"I don't see how you could begin to even think this from what I have written. I was pointing out that the daily experience of life in Brentford for most people is one which contains no crime as a counter to your presposterous comparison with Dodge City. It is ridiculous for you to assume that this in anyway means I don't care about victims of crime."The governments own figures say that violent crime has risen 21% in the last couple of years"You have made this figure up to try and justify your scare stories. The British Crime Survey shows a steady and consistent decline in violent crime over the last decade. This is done on an interview basis so that it doesn't have the reporting quirks of the crime statistics which can be distorted if crimes are reclassified. Violent crime did blip up slightly as measured by notified offences but this was due to new police powers to issue on the spot fines. This would for instance allow them to go into a pub where a brawl was taking place and issue fines whereas before they would have just broken it up and sent people on their way. Thus a measure which is helping police make this a less violent society appears on the surface to have made it more so but this is misleading.I think your scaremongering attitude is dangerous and could actually contribute to an increase in crime. I want to hear about every mugging, burglary, assault etc. which happens in the local area so that, if a description is available, I can keep an eye out for the scumbags that did it and report them to the police. I want to know about every con-artist operating locally so I can inform elderly neighbours of the latest scam. However, if people like you start claiming the sky is falling in just because the police are being more proactive in getting the community to help them by keeping them better informed there is a danger that the police might limit or stop giving us information because they are concerned about raising the fear of crime."Denial is no just a river in Egypt...."A lie has travelled twice round the world before the truth has got its boots on in the morning

Dan Evans ● 6950d

Could you be more complacent and unempathic to those who have suffered real crime ,Dan?The governments own figures say that violent crime has risen 21% in the last couple of years and there has been a local increase,like it or not. Because you have not seen or experienced it is irrelevant. Those who have experienced it would say it is a very real and terrible thing to happen to them. Why do you think the safer neighbourhood initiative has been started?Denial is no just a river in Egypt....

Keith Iddon ● 6950d

Sarah Felstead ● 6950d

Strange sights in our street - the small kerbside cleaning vehicle has just gone along the road for the third time (that I have seen) since 6.00 am.Last couple of times we had cleaning activity in the street was in advance of visits by official type persons - you may remember I wrote about the three man gang in yellow jackets - one to hold the bag, one to fill the bag and the third man was watching the activity.Is this a record - three visits by a road sweeper?  ... crumbs!So, who might we be expecting?1 road sweep = a visit from Officials (including long standing Cllrs)2 road sweeps? = a visit from newly appointed Councillors and the sitting MP?3 road sweeps? = has to be the Zec, surely?  (Does the Zec jump out of the borrowed mayoral limo with the missing red carpet?)

Sarah Felstead ● 6951d

The Safer Neighbourhood team for Osterley have been out and about around here frequently and discussed a variety of topics - might be interesting to find out from the teams what IS cropping up for discussion?****************************A while ago I heard that the Osterley team investigated a complaint of illegal workers on a development site and after doing so went and found around 6 illegal workers.  These were removed and locked up at Heathrow - with a view to using the legislation requiring employers to check documentation.  The response from immigration was as they were Indian illegals they weren't a priority, so they were released.Isn't this madness!  Apart from all the work and community involvement (good, natural teamwork, feeding information through - actually in practise) and the Police time - surely an illegal worker is an illegal worker and haven't we learnt enough about the exploitation of workers?I then read an article about Susan Kramer fighting for a young family in the Richmond area where immigration were doing the opposite and trying to deport them.  Having heard this tale I wrote to her.  I had several responses straight away (her office team seem pretty on the ball) and then she wrote to say she was passing the matter on to Ann Keen.  This was months ago and I heard that the letter to Ann Keen from Susan Kramer went missing.I have recently received a letter from Ann Keen dated 18.4.2006 which saysThank you for your correspondence which was forwarded to me from Susan Kramer MP regarding the deportation policy of the government and your concerns that the rules are not being applied evenly.I appreciate the concerns raised in your letter and I have made representation to the Home Office on your behalf.  I will write again as soon as I have a reply.Yours sincerelyAnn Keen MP.

Sarah Felstead ● 6951d

>>>There should be Safer Neighbourhoods Officers appointed to the local wards now and this should help further. Does anybody know if they are in place and who they are?>>>They all went in place on 1st May - let me know which ward you're in, Dan, and I'll get their names. The only thing I'd add to what you said is the police's problem in dealing with the greater affluence amongst young people. Now, I might have had some sweets nicked by bigger boys when I was walking home from school but I was hardly likely to need a crime number. If an ipod and a snazzy phone were taken then I might feel a little different. Anyway, up to date crime figures are on the Met's website at http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/datatable.php?borough=tx&period=yearand you can look at figures for your ward by clicking on the heading on the right.

Matt Harmer ● 6951d

The meeting I attended this evening Dan discussed the Safer Neighbourhood schemes and was explained in detail by PS Steve Mewse and PC Chris McLean.Basically,each ward will have six dedicated officers which will be a mix between the Police and Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs)who will be available to us all on a much more hands on basis,ie we can if we wish take their mobile numbers and e-mails to report local crime or potential crimes.It seems that a survey will be carried out in each district asking us what our real concerns are regarding crime and then hopefully a steering group can be set up in each area so the residents and Police can work closely together as a team.More information is available on the following link..http://www.met.police.uk/saferneighbourhoods/

Paul Fisher ● 6951d

Keith, I have been told that there is a sign on the platform about a man being killed under a train and asking for any witnesses.  Was told this second hand, so haven't seen the sign myself.

Sarah Felstead ● 6951d

Walked home tonight saw no crime whatsoever which is much the same as every other night for years. Went out to Syon Park at the weekend. Had lunch by the river. Saw absolutley no crime. Came home and house hadn't been burgled.There isn't more crime - we are just getting better information which in turn helps the police solve more crimes.As an individual you may have witnessed or been a victim of a crime but you can't take your personal experience as being representative of what is happening in Brentford in general. There should be Safer Neighbourhoods Officers appointed to the local wards now and this should help further. Does anybody know if they are in place and who they are?

Dan Evans ● 6951d

I left the details of how to find out on last posting I made

Keith Iddon ● 6952d

Hello all.I live on the Syon Estate and I have also not received this questionare.Could someone please tell me what it is about?

Bronwyn Snelling ● 6953d

It is called the KIN questionnaire and the letter attatched is from the Syon Ward safer neighbourhood team(Sgt.Beverley Green 75TX 020 8247 5989    syon.snt@met.police.uk) and it needs to be returned by 8/5.If you don't live in the Syon ward,there may well be one for your area too.Hope this helps.

Keith Iddon ● 6958d

Sorry Sarah,I've filled it in already. My pc skills are pretty poor anyway.I will be able to give you more info tomorrow pm when I have the form to hand.

Keith Iddon ● 6959d

hi my dad lives on syon estate and we have not received it yet.

M Dowling ● 6959d

No Keith, we haven't received a questionaire.  Can you copy it onto the forum?  Regards,  Sarah

Sarah Felstead ● 6959d

Hi Sarah...drove past there again tonight on way to work and couldn't see any police tape or a notice of any sort,though I may have missed it.Hopefully just a minor incident.Did you receive the recent questionairre?

Keith Iddon ● 6960d

Anyone know what happened at Syon Lane station?

Sarah Felstead ● 6960d