Forum Topic

Tonight's game...what do you reckon?

England 1   Sweden 0   is my punt

Keith Iddon ● 6920d15 Comments

How do you mean'a bit of a blind spot'?.Of course United are more fragile without Keane(I think Fergie has a cunning plan for next season tho').I never denied Keane was a very important to United,just asserted that Robson was a much better all rounder but as usual you seem to twist what a person says and add loads of your spin Dan.Are you related to Alistair Campbell in any way?

Keith Iddon ● 6910d

I can't recall Laurent Blanc ever operating as a sweeper though I may be wrong. He was often compared to Beckenbauer but that was because of the way he brought the ball out of defence not because of the position he played. If you watched closely in the game last night you would have noticed how Thierry Henry constantly sought to disrupt the defensive line of the Spanish by standing in a slightly offside position until he was ready to become active. This probably was decisive in Ribery's goal. Imagine the havoc he would cause against anyone playing a sweeper. Keith may be advocating its return but I think the fact that no leading international or club manager plays this system suggests it is a thing of the past.Kevin is right when he says that the sweeper has been replaced by defensive cover in front of the back four. This is probably the most demanding and difficult position to play in and is constantly misunderstood and underrated by those that follow football by reading the sports pages of the Sun or watching highlights on Match of the Day. It is the essence of the job break down an opposition attack and then make a short telling pass to launch a counter-attack. United are undoubtedly a more fragile team without Keane but as Keith seems to have a bit of a blind spot there perhaps the Real Madrid example might illustrate the case better for him. I've seen Chelsea twice this season and in both cases their best player to me has been Claude Makelele.  Since he left Madrid they have won nothing despite boasting Raul, Roberto Carlos, Zidane, Beckham, Robinho and a host of others. Both Man Utd and Real Madrid have continued to score freely since they have lost Keane and Makelele but they have won nothing. They obviously didn't win all the trophies single handedly but it is probably correct to say they were the most important players. Most people would recognise that this shows that goals don't necessarily win games it is scoring more goals than the opposition that matters.

Dan Evans ● 6912d

Nice try Kevin.There you go again,claiming all those trophies were down to one man when United had a much better squad ,never mind team,in the 90's as opposed to the 80's.Funny how Rep.of Ireland never even looked like winning anything with bully boy at the helm,in fact they looked a better and happier team without him when his spat his dummy out and went home from the last World Cup.If Robbo had been in United's 90's team and was Keane's age,they'd have won even more,as goals win games,or have you forgotten.Not denying Keane was a great player and servant of United(excepting the Alf Inge Haaland episode and some others))but you can't seriously claim that all those trophies were down to him single handed.I'm sure Cantona,Beckham,Scholes,Schmeichel,Giggs,Sheringham,The Nevilles,Stam,Solskaer and quite a few others of great quality had just a little to do with it,or am I wrong.

Keith Iddon ● 6913d

Laurent Blanc always used to be described as a sweeper though I don't think he was in the classic sense of Beckenbauer and other continental players from the seventies. These days the fashion is for the 'holding player' in front of the back four. The most successful teams in recent years have generally used this formation with players like Makelele, Viera and Keane being the most critical component in a team. I'm sure Keith won't agree with the inclusion of Keane but he seems to prefer the wilderness years of the eighties for Man Utd. rather than the trophy filled nineties.Dan's explanation for Sven's squad selections is the most coherent I've heard but it still doesn't make much sense. However as a relatively dispassionate observer I would accept the basic point that Sven, McClaren and the team know what they are doing and are not the blundering incompetents that the press and some observers portray them as. Bobby Robson was villified during Italia 90 for some below par performances in the early stages but his side got through to the semis where they raised their game. This current England side look to be following the same path. Competent professional performances against weaker opposition in which they do what is necessary and no more. I thought the display against Ecuador was mightly impressive as apart from the John Terry lapse they were in almost total control. England look a much better side than Portugal who lost all their discipline against a relatively inexperienced Holland side and should have been down to nine men but for the most useless referee since Graham Poll. Without Deco they offer very little in terms of creativity although that show-pony Ronaldo convinces some people that they do. Figo is a shadow of his former self although it is of some concern that right back is currently England's weak link. Given reasonably cool weather and Frank Lampard remembering how to kick straight, I'd say England will win easily.

Andy Jones ● 6913d

Keep taking the tablets...

Keith Iddon ● 6916d

The game I saw all Sweden's real chances came from corners - this isn't generally regarded as open play.You are probably right that the ball retention skills of the South American teams gives them a decisive advantage particularly in the heat. Brazil gave a master-class against Japan this week and Argentina's patience has been very similar. Unfortunately weather, pitches and the demands of the fans dictate that the game in this country is played a different way. The more direct method worked well enough last time out against Argentina which shows that in the right conditions our players and their style of play can win. If World Cup were played in January in a cold climate Brazil and Argentina probably would have won far less.Gerrard, Lampard, Ferdinand, Rooney and Beckham would be automatic choices for almost any country they happened to come from and Joe Cole's form so far this world cup would make him likely starter. Other teams may be better balanced than England but few have the number of genuinely world class players than we do. I'm amazed that so many people fail to recognise this.Your knowledge of tactics does seem to be stuck in a time warp as no leading international side has played with a sweeper since the eighties due to changes in the off-side law. Even if a side was to revert to this tactic to counter Walcott it would have achieved Sven's objective which was to release pressure on England's defense. The only way to counter a lone striker who is faster than your tiring defense is to form a defensive line 10 yards back from the half way line when in possession otherwise you are vulnerable to the ball over the top with the attacker running from his own half and therefore not off-side. This means that there is harder to press England's midfield and gives them more time to retain the ball. The most likely World Cup roll for Walcott is a 15 minute cameo against Holland or Portugal in which he barely gets a touch and England go through having defended a one goal lead. Most of the press, being more familiar with the labels on Posh's handbags, won't have the slightest idea of the importance of Walcott's role.

Dan Evans ● 6916d

They were also nearly very succesful from open play 3 times.I wish I could be as optimistic as you, Dan,but we've all been here before.Teams saying'We don't want to play England'then us going out in the quater finals.I watched recently a re-run of the Brazil-England games from 1970 and 2002 and they were uncannily for the similarity in one particular area..English players running around like blue arsed flies in the searing heat trying to retrieve a ball they had lost after 3or 4 passes,the last of which was usually a long punt upfield. Secretly I think the Brazils,Argentinas and Italys (and probably a few others)don't mind playing England as their style negates England's simplistic,one dimensional approach.I don't think that any of the England players,excepting Wayne Rooney ,would be first choice in any of the major squads in world football,and I hope that too much expectation is not too much to bear when Walcott comes up against a good, experienced sweeper(best way of negating the 'one up front with pace 'approach).Still, he does have a 100% record(apps 0 goals0)so you never know.

Keith Iddon ● 6917d

Keith, reread my post. I pointed out that the Swedes were very successful from set pieces. The point I was making was that Sven should have given them more credit.As for Walcott I think the mistake the press and many commentators are making is that they are confusing the squad based system of the world cup with playing in the premier league. The England management team have clearly decided that the striking alternatives don't offer enough to be included. Defoe is a Tottenham reserve and Bent looked woeful any time he appeared in an England shirt. Sven has presumably decided rather than taking players who are not upto the job he will alter his formation. He can do this because he has the two best attacking midfielders  in the world (and another world class one in Joe Cole)amongst his 22 and so he knows that he can create a viable formation with a single striker. What Walcott offers that the other options didn't is searing pace. This can be used to great effect against a tiring defence in the latter stages of a game. The boy doesn't even need to touch the ball he can run the opposition ragged by turning defenders and take pressure off England by forcing them to defend more deeply.  Sven is trying to deal with the usual England problem of going a goal up and then being under pressure for the rest of the match. With pace up front it means that if an opposition team are defending a lead they have to draw their defensive line about ten yards deeper. Walcott has probably been picked for this specific contingency which is something you can do when you have a 22 man squad but not if you only have a bench of five.

Dan Evans ● 6917d

Seem to remember Swede hitting the woodwork and having a shot cleared off the line...does the expression'rose tinted spectacles' mean anything to you?

Keith Iddon ● 6917d

'Walcott...is..to provide specific skills for special circumstances which don't necessarily arise in club football'...please explain.

Keith Iddon ● 6917d

The second half was only poor in comparison to a majestic performance in the first half in which a team ranked in the top 16 in the world were made to look ordinary. Joe Cole was absolutely superb. The Swedes reorganised to counter his threat in the second half and inevitably, with the goal going in, the nature of what England had to do changed. Sven admitted that the set piece organisation was poor but he perhaps should have given more credit to the Swedes who combined superb delivery with some well thought out moves. Most teams would have struggled with this. In open play they never looked like scoring.Despite what the tabloids are saying Sven has had a very good world cup so far. Hargreaves was excellent and the team now has a good shape and no obvious weak points. I'm inclined to trust his judgment on Walcott. Defoe wasn't getting regular football at Spurs and his goal scoring record this season was poor. Clearly the thinking with players like Walcott and Lennon is that you bring them on in the later stages of a game to run at tired opponents. Injuries and lack of fitness didn't allow Sven to use Walcott or Lennon yesterday. Walcott's inclusion is clearly to provide specific skills for specific circumstances which don't necessarily arise in club football. This is an intelligent use of the fleixibility that a squad system allows.

Dan Evans ● 6919d

Ok the second half wasn't a particularly good performance but we've done the job and qualified in 1st place avoiding Germany in the 2nd round.What I'm more worried about is the injury to Owen and our inability to deal with set pieces (which should be one of our strengths).However, one highlight of last night's game was the performance of Hargreaves. With Owen out for the rest of the World Cup, it could be an opportunity to play 4-5-1, thus solving the Lampard-Gerrard conundrum.I'd like to see Aaron Lennon given another go down the wing. But I'm still wondering why young Walcott was included if Sven isn't going to play him when the chips are down. Surely it would have been better to bring another experienced striker such as Defoe. But that argument has been done to death in the media and in other fora.

James de Vivenot ● 6919d

Couldn't agree more! It's enough to make you weep.

Vanessa Smith ● 6919d

2-2 final score. Ok first half dire second.

Neil Chippendale ● 6920d

but I sure hope the Roon gets a hat trick!

Keith Iddon ● 6920d