Forum Topic

Thames Water

"Reports that Thames water has once again failed to meet its leak target - whilst still making bumper profits - will further increase customer's frustration with London's water supplier, London Euro-MP, Syed Kamall, said today. Mr Kamall took up the unsatisfactory level of water leakage with Thames earlier this year, and was given an assurance that they would do all they could to drive down leak repair times."I have written to Thames Water asking what level of reduction I can expect in my water bill due to the hosepipe ban, and what further reduction I can expect if, as expected, the drought order is approved. Why should we, as those who pay for the service, be expected to reward the shareholders of this inefficient enterprise with record profits. What kind of madness is that? As yet, of course, I have not recieved a reply.I would like to see mass consumer action in refusing to pay water bills if the drought order is approved. Why should we pay for a service we are not getting?It should not be beyond the intelligence of politicians (even powercrazy control freaks like Bliar) to realise that there are some public services which should not and cannot be expected to provide a good, efficient service and a profit for shareholders who regard these utilities as nothing more than a cash cow. De-Nationalisation has been completely disastrous in almost every case. The prospect of more Public-Private Partnership in essential services fills me with foreboding.

John Coxall ● 6909d11 Comments

Still no further comment from Mr Sheerins!  Not up to the challenge Alan?

Steve Taylor ● 6896d

Still no further comment from Mr Sheerins!  Not up to the challenge Alan?

Steve Taylor ● 6896d

I see where you are coming from Steve. No-one really wants to end up on a credit blacklist. However, if we could find one rich individual for whom credit wasn't an issue, what a test case it would make. After all, we enter into a contract with Thames Water in which we agree to pay them money, in return for which, they provide us with a service - ie water. If, in the event of a drought order they are unable to provide us with the service contracted for, how can they expect us to pay them.

John Coxall ● 6899d

Whilst I would agree with John Coxall and Lois Westby that  withholding of water rates may be an option, one needs to be very careful.This is all 'new ground'  because,  whilst it is of course quite unnacceptable to have to pay for a commodity which isn't being provided,  I believe Ofwat is accountable.  My understanding is that if you withhold payment or even short-pay the due amount, you may still be at risk of being placed on the credit risk listing. Quite simply if you don't pay Thames will pass you over to their collection agency who will demand payment from you together with their fee for collection. If you still don't pay a court order is served and you are automatically placed on a credit risk  "black list" listing.  I believe that for most this isn't an issue of money but more the issue of rights and principle and that many will want  to make that point to Thames Water. A  co-ordinated mass protest by means of a petition to Thames Water, Ofwat and the government may be better served.  Also,  to simply delay payment to the last possible moment will no doubt irritate Thames Water and cause some discomfort to its cash flow. The Mogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) proved that a petition of over 3,000 signatures was easily obtained within 8 days in 2001 and handed to Thames Water senior management and Ann Keen MP.  This soon led to Lord Whitty summoning Thames Water directors to Mogden to explain themselves and this led to Ofwat, Defra etc etc all being forced to become involved in a problem Thames Water had for years ignored or denied.  These days with the power of the internet and the vast community forums available, it is not too difficult to launch a petition calling for or demanding rate reductions etc.  The point is to get as many communities as possible involved.Perhaps a mass petition calling for an immediate response from Thames CEO could be organised by Alan Sheerins and Ann Keen. No doubt Ann could get support from other MP's representing the millions of Thames Water customers across London and beyond. What about it Alan - are you up to a challenge?  Get Brentford on the map and start the ball rolling?  For more info on how MRAG achieved so much success visit  www.mogden.org.uk  There is also interesting reading on the subject in the Putney forum  www.putneysw15.com as well as the Twickenham community site  http://www.twickenham-online.co.uk/

Steve Taylor ● 6899d

I guess this subject still hasn't quite been kicked to death!  Whilst we suffer hosepipe bans due to Thames Water's inefficiency, last week the Evening Standard reported huge cash bonuses being paid to Thames Water's five executive directors for reaching targets on "personal" and financial performance. Thames'  MD Mr Boettcher received £ 93,843 on top of his basic pay of £397,000 and COO Jerry England was awarded £49,880 on top of basic pay £ 228,000. Mr Boettcher stepped down in January and was replaced by Jeremy Pelczer who earns £445,000.  The company has been blasted by MPs Vince Cable, Susan Kramer and Chris Huhne who slammed the decision not to fine Thames Water and accused Ofwat of "playing patsy"  In a letter to Richmond Times, solicitor John Perry went a step further and suggests that the head of Ofwat, who allowed Thames to increase its charges by three times the rate of inflation, should now take early retirement. I believe I would agree with this.  Ofwat chairman Philip Fletcher spoke of "Thames Water's completely unacceptable performance"  Very true - its performance leaves much to be desired but what of his own performance?  It is he who is supposed to 'regulate'.  It is he who should have been fully aware of the lack of performance over the years . It is he who was fully aware that Thames only started to tackle the leak problem three years ago. And still he is only prepared to take the 'soft option' with Thames Water instead of the punitive measures he is empowered to take.

Steve Taylor ● 6901d

Agreed. Unitl a couple of years ago there was a water valve in Kew Bridge Road (outside the TW pumping station) that had been slowly leaking for about 10 years.

Alan Sheerins ● 6906d

Todays news says that Thames Water have escaped a substantial fine by the regulator OFWAT despite failing to meet it's target for reducing leakage for the third year in a row. Instead thier punishment is to spend a further £150m on repairing burst pipes. How on earth will Thames Water take this issue seriously if it is allowed to continually get away with this level of performance.

Andrew Sibley ● 6906d

Well, listen to this for a daft story.  There has been a water leak in the front garden of a house in College Road for months.  Don’t know how bad it is as it is under the pea shingle in the front garden but it has been running across one slab and into an inspection hatch for so long that the slab is covered with a slime.  I e-mailed Thames Water about it several weeks ago – and on a wander to the post office last week I saw it was still trickling away – so I e-mailed the Council and the local resident association lady who gets things moving (amazing, these unpaid people).I have just had an e-mail back from her saying that she has been told of other people reporting this leak and she has twice rung the water board to be told “They cannot go onto private property without the owner’s permission”.  She then rang the environmental department at the civic centre and was told to ring Thames Water …! If nothing else can’t the council challenge the slippery pavement and charge the owner for cleaning it – every few days until he gets it fixed? Having had my fall I walked passed very gingerly but when the rest of the pavement is wet it will be difficult to see that it is slippery and somebody else will come a cropper!The leak is in the front garden of the detached house beside Parklands Grove, on College Road.

Sarah Felstead ● 6909d

When we had our April bill I asked for a meter and was told it would take a few weeks.  My site has been inspected, but since then no date has been given for the installment of a meter.  In the meanwhile TWICE I have been sent details of an insurance against broken pipes by Thames water asking me to take this out. Telling me where to sign etc like some illiterate child! I have ignored these because my own house insurance covers such eventuality, but I really see no reason to enter into a correspondence about it with them.  I was told that I HAD to pay my first installment of my water bill, but that I would be refunded (Oh ha! ha!) once my meter was installed.  Here we are July, and I have hardly used any water - what with one thing and another!  Certainly I shall withhold payment - like, I hope, everyone else, come October!  Utilities should NOT be in private hands.

Lois Westby ● 6909d

I would have thought the mass withholding of payment would be sufficient consumer power. As to the cost of re-nationalisation - as with the railways, can we afford not to! Confiscation without compensation should cover it.

John Coxall ● 6909d

I agree that de-nationalisation was a disaster in most cases. However who is prepared to pay the cost of re-nationalisation? If you do not like public private partnerships then you don't have many, if any alternatives left to choose from. In the case of the utilities there is not enough consumer power. Mogden is a case in point, Thames Water have behaved disgracefully and have had to be forced all the way to make the minimum of improvements.

Alan Sheerins ● 6909d