Forum Topic

Oliver on the High Street

If it is desired to continue this debate I thought it best to separate it from the meeting up topic.I didn’t see your comment as rude Oliver, so no apologies needed and a conversation over a beer is always helpful. To continue from the relevant postings:Oliver Damianni:Apologies for rudeness but I would like to come along myself, not least so I can meet up with Nigel who I hold largely responsible for the hold-up of the redevelopment of the high street. I have read his arguments on a number of occasions on this site and must profess that i fail to properly understand his line of reasoning. Maybe a conversation over a beer would help?! Meantime I can't help but wonder whether Nigel feels some responsbility when visiting the High Street and seeing the abject state of the place the lack of investment and the failing businesses. This is all a direct consequence of what seems to me unneccessary delays in a much needed redevelopment. Nigel seems to be Brentford's (annoyingly successful so far) King Kanute, trying to turn back the tide...clearly this can't last for ever, and I would appreciate getting Nigel's take on the situation.Neil Chippendale:Oliver,Please feel free to come along. The main problem with the lack of progress on the Brentford South Side isn't Nigel it's the fact that you have two competing companies who have each purchased large chunks of land and who never seem to talk to each other.Alan Sheerins:The redevelopment has been delayed because until very recently the land was in the hands of more than one developer. I very much admire Nigel and his fight to retain traditional industry and prevent the over-development of Brentford. He is not to blame him for the slow pace of this re-development.Oliver Damianni:incorrect.nigel's endless attempts to whip up petitions and objections would occur (and will remain a feature no doubt) whether there are one or several developers involved. ...........................................Quite frankly, I’d be highly gratified to think I was responsible for holding up the proposal for the High St that was around for a good number of years. It was a deplorable and destructive scheme that could only have made matters worse. However as Neil and Alan have noted, I can’t take that credit.Brentford’s High St is a complicated issue that has been seen as a problem for centuries, and the sad state we see it in today is a direct result of the well-meaning efforts of the post-war predecessors of this Council. As the architect Terry Farrell has commented ruefully, had the High St been left alone in the first place, Brentford Town Centre would now be a more successful, profitable, attractive and sought after destination than any of our neighbours.Perhaps I should clarify that I am not against redevelopment? The drab 1950’s block buildings both north and south could do with demolishing and sympathetic re-building, though how much that would encourage new and healthier businesses and shops I’m not qualified to say. Looking at how slow they have been to take up the new opportunities around the ideally located recent canalside developments, that appears uncertain.As things stand at the moment, as has been the case for years, no businesses are able to invest properly in any of the south High St shops, because their leases are restrictive in temporal terms, owing to the perceived Council need to be able to clear them out when there is something to take their place.Much the same reasoning has contributed to the steady eradication of the businesses behind the High St. They were bought out so that land parcels could be put together for redevelopment, and the smaller premises, if let at all, let on short term leases that make any long term contribution or investment impossible. The dereliction is deliberate, exactly as is the case with Commerce Road.The reason why Neil’s and Alan’s comments on disparate land ownership is pertinent lies with the Council’s desire to see the regeneration take place as a whole, not piecemeal. Because of that they had made it a legal requirement that ownership of the whole be under the one umbrella. For so long as that could never be achieved, planning consent was withheld. You are of course perfectly correct that I would have made my noises regardless of whether there were one or many developers, but that has not affected the situation.In this context it might be helpful to realise that for years there have NOT in fact been any developers concerned. “Brentford Town Centre Ltd” was a loose consortium of foreign investors looking to acquire a sufficient block of holdings, gain planning consent for a scheme, then auction it off piecemeal to “real” developers. The Council didn’t play that game, the consortium couldn’t deliver what the Council demanded, ergo collapse of that little band of speculators and resultant sales of parcels to yet more overseas investors.I believe that the necessary regeneration will stand more chance of gradual success if the Council approve an overall vision, and allow rebuilding incrementally within existing title blocks. It was in great part the wholesale obliterating nature of the “original” scheme that made such development impossible.So far as my own contribution is concerned, Alan has accurately identified that it is an attempt to have any redevelopment be a successful one that contributes positively to existing and traditional industry, retaining and restoring as much as possible of Brentford’s largely lost character, recognising that much of that owes more than a nod to the waterside with its traditional links to the High St, and that for sustainable growth of a living waterfront, supporting businesses must be encouraged to continue and to grow.

Nigel Moore ● 6831d46 Comments

Continuing along the Ballymore line, it’s worth noting that their development of Wood Wharf, yet another chunk of land purchased by BW as land speculation, is to proceed under a joint venture partnership with BW and Canary Wharf Group.I’ve learnt this morning that the intention to develop Sth of the High St isn’t simply by Ballymore, but this same group – the “Wood Wharf Group”.So far they’ve spent at least 17million on acquiring many of the properties, with some “hold-outs” yet to vanquish.With BW firmly a part of this triumvirate, no wonder they are awaiting the outcome of the Commerce Road Appeal, which re-opens in January. Should they win the Appeal, they will attempt to use that decision as precedent for even greater density of development here.The conflict of interest that arises with BW as Statutory Consultee on waterside development, intensifies as they become more immediate financial beneficiaries of such schemes. Then too, their involvement in property speculation, while promising great rewards, remains a risk of public monies, and in the light of DEFRA’s recent cuts, the preponderance of the use of such monies compared to that used for maintenance of the waterways themselves becomes alarmingly unbalanced. The amount of the cuts that BW claims threatens preservation of the system, is but a fraction of that they’ve invested outside the system. I strongly protest the cuts, but BW’s abuse of taxpayers’ money must be viewed with this in mind.What odds BW will offload some of their acquired property portfolio instead of sadly bemoaning the necessity of allowing whole sections of the canal system to fall into disrepair? I fear they will use the cuts to justify yet greater dependence on business ventures they are ill-suited for, at the expense of navigation.I came across an excellent article on the web today:As we have seen with the Commerce Road proposals, BW are prepared to ride roughshod over local and Council desires for our area. At this point in time Jason Debney’s latest article in our BCI Times is both pertinent and poignant –“Although the nature of industry has changed from freight transfer to boat repair, the gritty industrial character of the canal junction has been preserved and remarkably, modern Brentford is essentially still a water town. This is unique to London in that it retains a robust working riverside along the waterway just moments from the town centre. Other similar settlements such as Limehouse, Paddington and the East End have all now been lost to swanky new developments. Today, there is no question in my mind that Brentford is the most complete surviving working waterside community in London. That makes it a very special place indeed.Brentford is not preserved in aspect (sic) though. It is a constantly changing place and we are very conscious that this unique remnant of our industrial past could be lost to development and once gone it could never be replaced. Luckily there is an increasing movement to keep Brentford as a working riverside town. This does not mean that the area would need to become a museum or be stuck in the past. In fact it would be quite the opposite. To protect the working nature of waterspace would actually make for a much more dynamic town centre, around which much needed regeneration could take place. It is important to keep one foot in the past when moving forward.Traditional boatyards for example, work with the river and make full use of the tidal fluctuations thus making them an ideal industry for waterside locations. The employment created at these sites brings diversity to the local economy.The Thames Landscape Strategy is looking at the creation of a waterspace employment cluster centred along the Grand Union Canal to Lott’s Alt on the Thames. Here, traditional, small-scale water related industry would be safeguarded and encouraged as an intrinsic part of the wider redevelopment of town centre.Similar schemes such as the redevelopment of Gas Street Basin in Birmingham have proved extremely successful. This initiative demonstrated how a conservation led regeneration scheme could successfully transform a former waterway industrial site whilst retaining a connection with an area’s industrial past. The basin now forms a much cherished visitor destination that attracts many tourists, generates activity and support a range of both water related and other jobs.Alongside Brentford’s working boatyards and slips new sections of towpath could be opened up and exciting new riverside quarters created. What a spectacle this would be. Squeezed between Syon House and Kew Gardens the potential to link this unique waterway heritage with tourism is considerable. Through the provision of a footbridge or ferry to link Kew with Syon via a new walkway up the canal visitors could watch the boats come and go along London’s last surviving traditional working canal junction.These of course are just proposals at the moment but it is a way forward that we hope will be adopted. It would take the commitment of many different partners to achieve however, the boat builders, Syon Estates, Hounslow Council British Waterways, the PLA and the local community and we need your help to make it happen.If you feel that this area is so special that it should be kept for water based employment write and tell us. We can pass these letters onto the right people. If you do not know the area, pop down there for a visit - you will be well rewarded. If you need help in navigating your way around the wharves and slipways just contact us at Holly Lodge and we can send you a map.”Jason Debney, Co-ordinator, Thames Landscape Strategy, Holly Lodge, Richmond Park, Richmond, TW10 5HS

Nigel Moore ● 6788d

Taking up Neil’s point regarding how much effect keeping the Brewery Tap would have on any future redevelopment, - this did not delay matters unduly previously, nor would it adversely affect any new scheme. Apart from the pub, two other modifications were made earlier, both to do with filling in the waterspace: one was Town Wharf and the other was Ridgeways basin. From as early as March 2003 the waterside strategy showed the pub intact and both waterspaces retaining (almost) their original contours, to conform to the Grand Union Conservation Area dictats. One might have argued from that point on (as I did), over the USE of those waterspaces, without any hindrance to the progression of the scheme. From this point in time, further, more useful redrafting can create a far more satisfactory environment surrounding them.I’ve looked up the Lanes area in Brighton that Oliver referred to, and it’s a useful template from which to draw inspiration in restoring the yards for which Brentford was also renowned. Built along the still largely intact yards, they would not only offer an intriguing taste of the past but would be a terrific tourist draw, with opportunities for shopping arcades and even live/work units. In the photo below, one of the LH windows is very similar to the one remaining original shop front on the High Street (Autowise).Restoring the yards would have the enthusiastic support of English Heritage, who claim that even retaining what they call the “grain” of original street patterns in the absence of the buildings that shaped them in the first place, is of considerable heritage value.When some of those buildings remain intact, the value is so much higher, which is one reason I’m keen to keep the two Plough Yard buildings marked on the plan in my previous posting.And as it is today, still with the RHS buildings standing:

Nigel Moore ● 6827d

Now that WAS a more useful as well as entertaining post Oliver.I’m insufficiently mathematical to live in a binary world, - or are you implying that we float around in the Ethernet, divorced from reality?Perhaps we might explore more specific areas of agreement and disagreement?I’d go along with demolishing virtually all of the High Street’s north side. I’d love to see a new “3 Pidgeons” back on the original site alongside the Magistrates Court.As to the south side, I would agree that the entirety of County Parade should be demolished, and any new buildings restore the n-s yards that were blocked off. I don’t know the Lanes area of Brighton, I’ll try to find what I can, but the concept of restoring and retaining the “grain” of the historic street pattern is one upheld by English Heritage. They claim that even in the absence of the original buildings that defined these, the pattern has historic value. It would also provide considerable interest with opportunity for shopping arcades and even live/work units.Reproductions of the old shop fronts might be an attractive idea, but it is also possible to design from new in a way that recognises old architecture and incorporates traditional motifs without (hopefully) inciting accusations of “pastiche”. The buildings I consider should be retained and restored where necessary I’ve outlined (ineptly) on the plan below, with the lanes and open areas in dotted outline. Obviously it only shows the western section, others may have access to detail on the remaining area.As to the museum’s contents, you do me too much honour, - but I’m flattered nonetheless.

Nigel Moore ● 6828d

Fortunately Nigel, I don’t live in the binary world inhabited by you and Jim. What your architect friend writes has merits, but you slavishly (and selfishly) hold to an unbounded view of preservation.  Age does not denote or bestow worth or beauty in structures, and much of what you and your merry band wish to save, frankly isn’t worth saving.  There are of course elements of Brentford to cherish and preserve – the Butts Estate contains for example one of the finest squares in London, and were there to be plans to plonk a tower block in the middle of this, rest assured I would be manning the barricades next to Jim. We can also take pride in Somerset road, Brent road, Upper Butts, (parts of) Church Walk, the Convent, Brentford Library, the White horse/Weir, Marketplace and so on. At the same time, I struggle to see anything worth preserving either on the High Street or south of it. Just to make myself more unpopular I would suggest that in the grand scheme of things, an undistinguished boozer like the Brewery Tap was not an especially deserving case for preservation, and the long drawn-out campaign to ensure its survival was a major irritation for the developers who were looking to transform this drab area. I too would prefer the old shop fronts to still be in place, but they are not and what is there, is contemptible and only fit for ‘my’ bulldozer. You malign developers for not appreciating the riverside areas, forgetting of course that it is precisely this part of Brentford that makes a redevelopment possible – there is a huge demand for riverfront real estate and riverfront commercial property. Your beef (understandable from your perspective) is that the use of the river envisaged by the developer didn’t contain plans for the continuance of your niche business. The Island development to my mind is a great success and I would hope something of similar quality appears on the Commerce Road side – the view of the Island development with the GSK HQ looming in the background (one of the finest office buildings in the world) is the future of Brentford. And in case the Luddites haven’t noticed, the Great West Road is itself booming and attracting an ever more impressive roster of businesses. If a similar success can be replicated south of the high street that would be more than satisfactory. But just to throw you a bone, I could make room for a series of narrow paths wending down to the riverfront modelled loosely on the Lanes area in Brighton, populated by (tasteful) reproductions of the medieval/18th century old Brentford shop fronts residing currently in Great Russell Street. What’s more I could find some space in this area for a Brentford Museum where, in the fullness of time naturally, yourself and Jim could be pickled, stuffed and mounted and presented as relics of Brentford past.

Click here to enter name ● 6828d

To reinforce Neil’s comments, I believe it worth quoting Kim Wilkie once more:“As culture and ideas move on does there come a point where the past becomes irrelevant or holds things back? As Britain becomes more culturally and ethnically diverse, does an essentially Anglo-Saxon and Christian heritage lose its resonance? Should the architecture and environment make a break with the past and reflect the cultures of those who have come to live in the island more recently? Or would that wipe away the diversity which makes the country so interesting? The story of the place can provide a continuity which allows all the changes to relate to one another as accumulating and communicating layers.A sense of continuity does not have to stop new ideas - just the opposite. The deeper the root, the greater the range of nutrients. When it comes to regenerating cities, the history and character of a place can make a big difference to the long term appeal. Redevelopments which are inspired by the identity of an area can capture a uniqueness which draws people long after the fizz of new buildings has passed. The polished granite and glass of eighties and nineties developments have a bland sameness throughout the world - a lack of personality - which limit their commercial attraction. They go out of fashion. Whereas the cities which have regenerated with some special flair or eccentricity stand out as places where people continue to choose to visit or invest. The canal areas of Manchester and Leeds have managed to stimulate new development which is fresh and original and links straight into the character and stories of each place. London is well poised to do the same. Clerkenwell has a new vigour which taps into rather than eradicates its scale and character. The Borough at London Bridge is regenerating powerfully around the ancient market and cathedral. Brentford is at a cross-roads. The grand visions of the 1970s have left the town bleak and unloved. The widening of the High Street turned the place into a traffic through-route, with no special focus or architectural character. Ironically, if the town had been left 'unimproved' thirty years ago and the mediaeval and eighteenth-century shop fronts had not been removed to the Museum of London, Brentford would now be in the forefront of the current economic boom in West London. The quandry today is how to regenerate the town where so little is left of its former character. Predictable multiplex cinema developments might bring immediate investment, but how long would it last? Brentford could become indistinguishable from Brent Cross. The extraordinary waterfronts and thriving boat building community which still survive in Brentford though, could be enough to inspire a development of real character and sustainability. Sustainable in terms of local community, local economy and long-term attraction, as well as capturing the essence of a place with a special history and character." http://www.kimwilkie.com/pages/issues/iss_valu_herit.html

Nigel Moore ● 6828d

>>""You in particular wallow in the graveyard that Brentford has become"Nicely put!  Yes I do linger and look around graveyards on occasions..and since joining this Forum some two years ago ..have enjoyed learning about Brentford, it's history and geography from some of the historians and old residents that call in from time to time.  Maybe you were watching. It's not often we've had such blunt criticism..but perhaps we're in for a hurricane!Yes many parts of Brentford could be described as a dump..indeed some people might regard the whole place as a dump..but as I live next door in Isleworth..I was intrigued to learn about it's industrial past, understand the locations of all those wrecks and alleyways..and with the aid of a camera..show others the sights that can be seen. There are some delightful parts in Brentford..the area  extending further than you may think.Some of the old canalside and riverside buildings tell a good story..but, of course, wouldn't make any money for you.I suggest that if you hate seeing my name on a thread..just don't open my messages and confine me into your Room 101!>>"but for those of us that actually live here, it's really not too pleasant""I can understand you saying that. I meet some people on my walkarounds who nonetheless like living in the area..some in the new developements even..and that was good to hear.  Others like it.. but hate the noisy neighbours..or dodgy looking youths along the Riverfront. Others say dreadful things about the Haverfield Estate..or the run down town centre.>>""Consider this the start of a backlash by a (previously) silent majority""Welcome...but be pleasant if you can on some occasions! Your points of view about the South of the High Street developement come at an interesting time as it's a subject currently active in the minds of several people at the Civic Centre.  As Nigel has said..the "tedious photographs" of mine  over the months have help educate some people about what's where. Some had never seen the sights before...seeing the picture on this Forum. >> "your tedious pictures etc"Well, start posting some pleasant messages yourself then.I'm conscious of being a serial poster..but I merely endeavour to keep stirring interest about Brentford and it's activities...to help people learn about the place.IMHO, some of the newly built structures in Brentford are hideous and incompatible with their immediate environment  Your arrival on the scene with your "bulldozer" style approach suggests that Brentfordians ought to watch out.

Jim Lawes ● 6828d

They are not MY “site briefs” Oliver, they are the Council’s. The Council are in the midst of reviewing options for all of Brentford, to inform which they have given as much opportunity as possible for locals to say what they wish to see. Hopefully you have made your own contribution?So far as I am aware, there has been no change in respect of the High St being progressed incrementally rather than as a whole. That is a suggestion that I have made, that I believe would help things along, but for all I know the Council continue to share your opinion, so that the new site brief for this site will emerge with the same single ownership requirement. On what basis do you claim that it is focussed differently?I’ve shown you evidence that the Council never received final plans which they could approve, and the increasing fragmentation of site ownership renders implementation impossible anyway, - what else is there but to go back to the drawing board? I am not pleased with that because it holds things up, but I am pleased that it gives the opportunity for improvement.The conspiracy theory that a deliberate veil is being drawn over the subject cannot stand scrutiny. It is no good demanding of the Council details they do not possess. They were unable to meet and discuss matters with BTC for the whole of 2005, in such a situation they were necessarily as baffled and frustrated as yourself. See the article below.For now, they are holding talks with prospective new players, details of which will be confidential. Further than that they can no more answer your question as to when things will happen than the average Brentfordian. They do of course know the reasons for delays ‘till now, but then so do you, you simply haven’t accepted the truth of them.The information I mentioned withholding has to do with BTC and their partners. There may be interest, but there is certainly no value in parading that now. The simple fact is that nothing much IS going on that can be divulged to satisfy our curiosity.It is reaching beyond substantiation to claim the planners and councillors were “happy to lap up” discreditable information on the developers; the plain fact is that such considerations are of no concern to them; they deal strictly with planning issues.I am certainly not guarding a status quo, - neither I nor any other business around here is happy with the cloud of uncertainty hanging over us.I regret that you haven’t found my information useful, but if you reject it out of hand, even with evidence in front of you, then I am at a loss as how to continue profitably.Under the circumstances, I believe the only way forward is for us all to do what we can to ensure a good, definitive scheme gets presented, that will both satisfy us and provide acceptable profit margins for whoever takes the project up. The one suggestion that I can see you to have made is to recommend Compulsory Purchase, - but even that requires an approved scheme, the implementation of which is proved to necessitate CP.Perhaps a chat over a beer will be more productive.The last line says it all.

Nigel Moore ● 6829d

As per your previous comments Nigel, your precious 'Site briefs' are focused on a mode of incremental development which won't work. "Back to the drawing board" is your constant refrain knowing that this route merely helps to guarantee that more years pass with no progress. The frustration for a regular local resident such as myself is that there has been a deliberate attempts made by all parties involved, councillors, planners, developers, and in particular by you, to maintain a veil of mystery over the plans for the south side of the high street. As you have admitted here, you are holding back information and by doing this you are directly stifling proper and informed debate. You leak bits of information here and there designed to prolong and extend this uncertainty. You love the ambiguity that we are all suffering from, portraying BTC as shadowy foreign speculators with criminal overtones -- a classic policy of demonisation that your cronies here and worse still our esteemed councillors and planners are happy to lap up. Ask the average Brentfordian about when the high street develeopment will begin, they will shrug a "don't know", and will not know what are the delays. The mistake you make is to interpret this as de facto support for the status quo that you so jealously guard. Although this site is populated and dominated by local politicos (Sheerins, Andrews, Hamer) who I know are (along with yourself) intimately acquainted with the true status of the development there is no useful information contained here. Anyone asking a direct question of "what the heck is going on" is never answered directly and the threads are soon sidetracked by discussions of your petty legal victories or StegoLAWrus' tedious postings of pictures of local "historical ruins". If you sincerely want a proper and representative debate amongst the community then why don't you spend less time indulging in philosophical semantics in your responses and more time dealing with facts and timetables.

Click here to enter name ● 6829d

Oliver, at the time when the Waterside Strategy was first presented to the Area Committee, councillors expressed concern for retention of waterside industry as a matter of principle, while the Case officer, Paul Draper, was describing our boatyard and environs as a derelict site – the planning office were not even aware of our existence, nor indeed were any of the councillors. To claim that they have been “forever slanted” in my favour is simply silly.While from that time I sought to make all concerned aware of us, discussions between “developers”, the Council, British Waterways and boat dwellers proceeded without my involvement, and the concerns raised from those other parties informed Council requirements for a Strategy that took sufficient note of waterside issues. As Mr Draper’s letter points out, that revised Strategy was never produced, - whose fault is that?Doubtless you will continue to hold me singly and selfishly responsible for holding up the High Street development despite the factors I’ve enumerated, and the evidence I’ve produced, but while that is in some ways flattering, would it not be more useful to come up with some positive ideas that could inform the new site brief?I have been trying to offer helpful suggestions for a more successful plan for the area, concentrating naturally on those issues that most concern me. I am sure that you along with others will have similarly useful ideas for a sustainable town centre. Putting those forward will help movement towards an acceptable scheme without which nothing can ever happen.The photographs that Jim has posted for example, might be viewed as wallowing in romantic decay, yet Hounslow’s Senior Strategic Planner made specific reference to them during the last public consultation weekend as a valuable source of visual information on what remains in the area. The conservation department will doubtless make their own judgements on which of those should be restored and incorporated into site requirements, the point is that the information has been disseminated and seen as a useful tool in planning for the area.If the “backlash” will contain material as informative, the Council will undoubtedly take it on board. Embittered pouring of blame on the perceived causes of past delays is not constructive, whether justified or not. I am not, as you put it earlier, “deathly afraid of contributing to any real momentum”; the way I see it, such a contribution is precisely what I’m offering. Why not do the same?Ps: loved the “unctuous and oleaginous” phrase, - evocative, if inaccurate.

Nigel Moore ● 6829d

Can’t say I understand the reference to my “insistence” on occupying “the moral high ground” Oliver. Naturally I believe I’m right in what I say, which involves the corollary that those who disagree are wrong, but isn’t that true of any honest debate between opposing viewpoints? Your own arguments are proffered in terms of what’s better for Brentford’s economy and effects for the “broader community” – would you not therefore believe yourself to hold the higher moral ground? I would expect you to do so, and would see that as integral to your argument, not as supplying something to criticise.Somewhere along the line here, the real reasons I and others have given for the delays seem to have been overlooked, - or are these what you consider to be “disinformation”?I’ll repeat myself: I am all for regeneration of the Town Centre. Slow or no progress is only preferable to retrograde “progress”.Of course I know more than I’m telling or will tell, but those are things irrelevant to whether any momentum is achieved. An approved plan is needed before any start can be made on realising that plan, and that’s never been forthcoming. I await any new proposals with interest.As to cloaking my actions in “faux civic responsibility”, I’m content to let others judge that for themselves. I’ve been quite sufficiently open in the preceding posts as to the level of my self-interest in this particular arena. I might just ask if you think I fail the “disinterest” test regarding other areas touched by the same issues?Apologies for one bit of inadvertent misinformation – it was Kim Wilkie, not Terry Farrell I should have referred to earlier.By way of countering the charge of lack of substantiation, I hereby offer the following substantiation of dribbled “fact” from my last posting: 

Nigel Moore ● 6830d

NigelI would be very happy indeed to see quick profits made south of the High St. "Quick" will imply that something is actually happening in a hurry which after the years of delay, would be most welcome. It strikes me that from your perspective, "slow" or "no" progress is much the best option. As a consequence your stock in trade appears to be disinformation, and the dribbling out of unsubstantiated 'fact'. It is strange indeed that while in April you were perfectly happy to talk in detail to the local press about the presence of "new developers" in the redevelopment plan and the departure of BTC ltd, you are now more coy with information. I'm sure you know more than you are telling Nigel but are dealthy afraid of contributing to any real momentum. As you say, it doesn't matter to you who is involved on the developer side, as your consistent aim is to befuddle, litigate and object, actions which you continue to cloak in faux civic responsibility. You complain that these thoughtless developers proposed a plan which paid no heed to the knock-on effetcs for the broader community, well I would suggest that you are equally guilty. I'm am sure for example that the number of jobs that will be created and income generated by the high street development would far outweigh anything that is produced by Ridgeways. Again, this is your right to defend what you have, this I don't dispute. But what I do oppose is your insistence that you somehow occupy the moral high ground.

Click here to enter name ● 6830d

Well Oliver, I certainly can’t complain that you have failed to exercise your own prerogative of robust free speech! Obviously, if you continue to believe that I am personally and singly responsible for BTC’s problems and the resultant delays in High Street regeneration, then you will naturally find my activities irksome and feel justified in your more acerbic comments. You have however raised a few more points to be addressed.Maligning BTC’s activities: Yes, I have, and feel completely justified in having done so. The smooth, urbane and caring PR presentation of this group’s representatives belied the quite unpleasant and ruthless approach they took when they felt that would be effective. In this they were careless not only of moral, but legal niceties, and I could have divulged far more detail than I ever did, with documented evidence. None of that is relevant to anyone else however, and I shan’t continue flogging a dead horse.Profit a necessary end motivation: Of course, - it would be silly to deny it. You accurately represent my “railings” however as being against a “quick profit”, which to my mind carries potentially more criticisable connotations. Leaving aside the rare altruistic philanthropist, any investor will want to see a profit with perfect moral legitimacy. When his project impacts upon others, the extent to which the profit motive overrides community concerns becomes relevant. The planning department will always recognise the need for a developer to make a profit, but they will also examine his proposal for the degree of public benefit it provides. Hounslow’s planning department were critical of the Sth High St’s failings with regard to the waterfront, and a revised scheme had been promised for over a year without being forthcoming. This failure itself was as much of a reason for planning consent being withheld as was failure to comply with S106’s and legal agreements. The nature of the group’s desire for a “quick” turnover meant that insufficient attention had been given to all these. Had they been practical developers themselves rather than middlemen, they would have looked further ahead.BTC no longer a factor: I’m really not concerned. That’s the word “on the street”, and seems backed up by various parties including those within BTC. I’d be interested to know the various parties involved, but it doesn’t affect the situation. Regardless of their identities, (quite undiscoverable through normal channels), the fact remains that more than one party is involved in land ownership, and this is a hurdle to overcome for so long as the Council demands single ownership.Brentford needs: “Evil developers” yes, “sinister speculators” no.Representative views: I presume you mean that they are not representative of a majority? Without polling every household, no claim could be made either way. The Brentford Area Action Plan consultations have been the conduit through which all views could be placed before the Council. More than twice as many locals indicated their wish that the boatyard be retained in the latest round as presented views of whatever nature in the previous consultation. Even taken all together, those numbers are a small minority of Brentford residents, but they comprise the residents prepared to have a view and make it known.“Acolytes”? I’m naturally aware of the many from all walks of life and from all political parties within the ranks of councillors and residents who support my views on the boatyard issue, but I suspect that they would take affront at being regarded as my acolytes, and rightly so. For others than myself, the issue is not a personal one but a matter of strategic planning and local feeling for character and practicality.Attempting to preserve my place of business IS of course self-serving, - I could never pretend otherwise and do not believe that anyone could fail to recognise that. In doing so, I make no apology for pulling out all the stops and utilising all arguments available to me. That includes making use of heritage and conservation issues, in addition to sustainability, ecology, local support etc etc. To say I attempt to “pass off” my appeal to conservation issues as being for Brentford’s benefit rather than my own (?), seems to stigmatise the argument unnecessarily. Either the case for the historical value of the dock is valid or it is not, whether it is mine or anyone else’s. Such information as I’ve been able to present for the heritage value of the premises to Brentford, will doubtless be examined critically by those officers responsible for conservation issues, and if they consider that information to be valueless they will pass judgement accordingly. Similarly, my attempts to portray the boatyard’s place in Brentford’s history as integral to the town’s character is something anyone can pass their own judgement upon, as evidently you do from a critical viewpoint. That critical view is fair enough, and if my “endless attempts” have proved wearisome to you I am sorry for it – could I perhaps have presented things more entertainingly?My view is that retention of the boatyard within any regeneration scheme will enhance the appeal and value of the Town centre. Further flung boroughs and businesses have discovered this in similar situations, Banbury being notable. Even given the appalling initial outline scheme of BTC, such use could have been incorporated with little to no modification. (Though some more significant changes would have made better provision).A scheme for the waterside satisfactory to the Council was never produced despite endless requests and encouragement over the years. The Council cannot force developers to come up with detailed plans and building partners, nor force them to build once consent given. With Sth of the High St, it never even got to the detailed plan stage!Even leaving aside the issue of splintered ownerships, and the disinclination to acquire those major parcels that were openly on offer to BTC, how could the Council grant the planning consent they were minded to, in the absence of a suitable plan?It might just be possible that the target of your understandable ire is misplaced.

Nigel Moore ● 6830d

Nigel,I know you have used this site to malign the activities of BTC Ltd, and to the extent that the internet is a organ for free speech that is all well and good. However the overall impression created is perhaps unbalanced. You have railed on a number of occasions about this group looking to make a quick profit, though of course you will realise that no commercial transaction will ever take place without this as the end motivation! We/I only have your word for it that BTC are no longer a factor and have exited the scene (the only source of this information appears to be comments that you had made to local press following conversations that you had with the council --  are you able to give more detail??). However from my perspective I would suggest that their pullout would be entirely understandable. Put simply, no investor can afford to have money locked up in a project like the disaster like Brentford High St for years on-end while fighting interminable legal battles with local businesses.  If there are new developers involved as you suggest you may well find that they have less patience than BTC (who were involved fruitlessly for 5+ yrs I believe). The fact is that Brentford needs these evil developers, these sinister speculators as they provide the means for a necessary redevelopment. And please don’t presume that the views that you and your acolytes espouse here are in any way representative.  Everyone I speak with is desperate for the High Street (one of the worst in Greater London) to be torn down  and can’t understand the delay. For all the signatures on the Ridgeway petition, there is not a groundswell of support that your boatyard is so germane to the future of the town that it must at all costs be preserved. Your campaign to preserve your place of business is entirely understandable, though as I see it your approach is as self-serving as that of BTC Ltd. Again, that is entirely right and proper but what is wearisome is your endless attempts to pass of your activities as a conservation crusade on behalf of Brentford.

Click here to enter name ● 6830d

Well Oliver, the Council were evidently of your view regarding “critical mass”, and I simply put an alternative procedure that could allow things to happen whereas the current requirement for single ownership prevents anything at all happening. As I’ve noted, we already have some major new building on the High St which could kick-start things.I should correct your view that owners were holding out and so denying the possibility of single ownership. There may have been some of that, but the major hiccups were down to BTC not having the resources needed.The Council’s freehold of County Parade was on a committee agenda for sale to BTC years ago for a relatively modest sum, but was removed, presumably because none of the team could afford it.The biggest parcel seen as a problem was Twickenham Plating. They had always proffered their willingness to relocate so as not to stand in the way of redevelopment, but at none of the meetings between BTC and the management did any offer come up, nor any suggestion for practical re-location. At a time when BTC were assuring the Council that negotiations with TP were proceeding helpfully, they had in fact not been in contact for a year! TP have since sold, but to people prepared to come up with an offer, not wasting the management’s time with general discussion on kiddies back in India.Failure to acquire the necessary major parcels was therefore principally because BTC had never envisaged the necessity in the 1st place, and were never prepared or able to invest more than they had done already.However little remains worth preserving, that little IS worth preserving, whether that be buildings or industry. The Council are coming to see that there are in fact considerable worthwhile opportunities that will inform new site briefs for the area. The delays may be frustrating, but a better town centre will result. If any intervention of mine will have promoted such improvement, I will be happy to acknowledge such a consequence and accept whatever responsibility is mine for contributing to the time necessary to arrive at a more visionary and sustainable scheme.As I’ve said before, it was the insensitive and ill-informed bulldozing tactics of the former authority, acting in isolation from community views, which left us with the legacy we’ve suffered since the war. Whatever this Council comes up with in concert with new developers as a result of extensive local involvement, will be something we all will have to live with for another generation. Let’s get it right.

Nigel Moore ● 6831d

NigelThanks for your courteous and detailed response, though I must say I find your analysis and vision wrong-headed. The hold-outs who refused to sell to Brentford Town Centre Ltd meant that this group of developers/speculators (call them what you will) didn’t have full ownership rights and therefore could not deal with the council on the terms required. Clearly then, those resisting the offers made at the time, very directly held up development. As a business owner this is your prerogative, but at the same time you need to acknowledge the consequences of this action. As for your vision of incremental development – a recipe for disaster I’m afraid. Brentford needs a critical mass of retail and leisure outlets to prosper.  Piecemeal rollouts don’t and wont’ work. You only have to look at the recent history where those brave souls who have tried to invest – they haven’t lasted long, and I hope that the recently opened opticians and coffee bar don’t go the same way. Brentford needs to become a ‘destination’ for shoppers not the hodge-podge of developed/undeveloped premises that you desire. The ‘Moore Plan’ would I suspect leave the high street in an equally sorry state in a decades time. These are lost years in terms of local business opportunities and employment. I’m sorry to say that there is little in this area that warrants preserving – Brentford needs to reinvent and regenerate itself – something which it has done every century or so.

Click here to enter name ● 6831d