Forum Topic

Parking and the council

Now that Richmond have come down on the motorist again when will Hounslow follow? Should we open up all the old stables again and get all the brasses off the pub walls, there are plenty of horses in the borough, will the Lord Mayors give up their limo's. Lets all dig up our gardens and lay down concrete so to avoid parking charges, I wouldn't mind if they spent the money on making the roads better filling in the potholes etc etc but they won't will they! I bet all the lentil eating cylists are jumping for joy. Go on prove me wrong.

Helen Fogarth ● 6793d12 Comments

Thank you Michael for your reply and sorry if I 'went off on one'. I think the real issue here is not car ownership or even the size of cars that people buy but car use. Countries in Europe like Germany have much higher car ownership than us but lower levels of car use. The reason is probably their much better integrated and cheaper transport system.John - I would never drive to Chiswick. The bus is generally quicker and parking is a nightmare when you get there. Unless there is heavy traffic the journey each way is rarely more than 20 minutes which is probably less than it would be to drive and park. Obviously this would depend where you are starting from and where your destination is.

Dan Evans ● 6791d

Michael wrote: "All a car journey does is increase your frustration, cost you money and prevent you from walking or cycling and improving your health"In my situation it also saves me an awful amount of time and inconvenience. I live in north Brentford and work in Feltham, although my work also involves fairly regular meetings around the borough and beyond. Without a car I could still do my job, but much less efficiently and I would be too shattered to do much else than sleep when I (eventually) got home. To get to my work-base by public transport takes three buses, with all the waiting, queueing etc. and approximately 1/2 mile walk. In fact, on the rare occasions when the car is in for repairs etc, I tend to take one (long)busride and walk the remaininf 2.5 miles at each end. On a good day, this will take me between 1.5 and 2 hours. By car, it takes me 20-30 minutes.If I have a one-hour meeting in Chiswick, say - at the middle of the day, by car the whole exercise takes up 2 hours, by public transport I might as well write off the whole day.Public transport might be an option for some, but it certainly isn't for me - not if I want a life as well as a job!

John Coxall ● 6791d

One idea that facilitaties changes in habits is a car club. I've been a member of Streetcar for a few months now and they've recently supplemented their car at the Fountain Leisure Centre with ones in Brentford and Isleworth. For a fee of £5/hour (with cheaper daily and weekly rates) you can hire a VW Golf. If you don't drive to work and only need a car occasionally it is a viable alternative to car ownership. Car clubs are expanding rapidly in London (there was an article about them in the Standard last week) and I think are a key to reducing the number of cars on the road in London...

D Clifford ● 6792d

Thanks Dan and Edward for your replies.  Yes I was wrong proferring advice to others by reading from my own circumstances.  We all have our particular conditions and we alone are the best judge of our own and our families well-being.  I thank you for the robust spirit with which you took my - what I realise now as - patronising advice - and corrected me.But on a general level I believe there are many in our Hounslow, West London area who may improve their quality of life by not automatically looking to the car to their fulfill transport needs.  I tried to show how by cleverly using public transport, little time is lost over the hassle of owning/operating a car.  This can be done despite weaknesses in our transport infrastructure - for instance the lack of Tube in Brentford or difficult Tube/Rail services that cross to South West London.I have no strong views on the Richmond parking tax as I personally believe that change in habits best proceeds from individual motivation rather than central direction.  If it's justified by economic and resource allocation logic then well and good.  The only case I can see for such local/government rules is when the good of the whole community strongly benefits in the absence of individual wills to change individual self-aggrandizing behaviour.

Michael Fletcher ● 6792d

Michael did your kids not do any sport or organised activities? At the weekend I'm like a mini-cab driver taking them from one place to another and believe me it just wouldn't be practical to use public transport particularly on a Sunday. My friends with older kids tell me it gets worse not better because you end up have to collect them late at night from parties etc.  During the week I don't use the car to travel to work but my wife needs it as she often has to carry large art folders and often she is working late in the evening. You might be prepared to let your wife travel back late at night on the bus but I am not.Many people might not need a car but most people do. I really dislike driving in London and avoid doing it if I can. If you are lucky enough to have a life style and personal responsibilities that have meant you could get away without a car when then hurrah for you but please no lectures on what sort of example I should set to my children.

Dan Evans ● 6792d

Michael,Try this for size, Leave Hanworth to Colnbrook by bus or train start time at work is 04:00Hrs, I do it in my car in 15 mins work a 12 hour shift and return in about 20 mins, showered and dinner eaten by aprox 18:00Hrs. I think by the time I had done the return journey on the public transport I would be going back for the start of the next day.

Edward Fitzgerald ● 6792d

"I am not adapting a 'don't touch me' attitude but the fact remains that it would be almost impossible for family with two working parents to exist in West London without a car"Well I've lived in Chiswick and Brentford  working in London for 36 years and not owned/used a car.  Often I've travelled round the country by train to meet suppliers.I arrive relaxed  and full of information from reading on train.  Many people who work in London find they don't need a car.Some examples of my journeys.  Today: I was in Twickenham wanted to get to Wandsworth then return to Brentford:Caught 15:23 to Twickenham-> Putney 15:34 Putney->Wandsworth Successful business, then 16:25 Wandsworth-> BrentfordYesterday 14:24 Brentford->WandsworthBusines then 15:24->Brentfordthen E2 to EalingNo wait was more than 5 minutesA month ago I jorneyed to Lower Sunbury on 235 - buses are every 10-15 minutes on  Sunday.A year ago I entertained Dutch friends on Sunday , walking to Kew Gardens , catching 65 bus to Kingston, then walking to Hampton Court Palace (could have caught bus).  Afterwards they caught bus direct to Heathrow.  Again no wait longer than 5 minutes.I've arrived at Heathrow by plane, walked over to bus station and caught N9 to Brentford at 2:00 am in the morning.Our lives are full of status symbols where we try to keep up with the Jones.  Concentrate on living.  Spend your money on something that helps.  All a car journey does is increase your frustration, cost you money and prevent you from walking or cycling and improving byour health. Are you healthier or wealthier after a lifetime's care use?  Set a good example for your children.

Michael Fletcher ● 6792d

Tom, having given us a lecture in another thread about negative personalised attacks on other posters I'm surprised to see you engaging in exactly the same thing here.I am not adapting a 'don't touch me' attitude but the fact remains that it would be almost impossible for family with two working parents to exist in West London without a car. Please no sanctimonious lectures about how I could use public transport and a bike. Anyone who has said that hasn't  had to get from a ballet class in Ealing to a football training session in Elthorne Park in under 20 minutes. If this is just a proposal then the onus is on Richmond Lib Dems to make their case, not on opponents to come up with alternatives. Their rationale for it is that it is targetting the gas guzzling 4x4s owned by Richmond's wealthier residents. The reality is that if this tax is to be successful in anyway it will have the biggest impact on the less well off. It is a flat rate and therefore regressive tax and the only people who are likely to buy a smaller car or abandon car ownership altogether are those that were struggling to afford one in the first place. As they may also choose to hang onto their existing car for longer the measure may actually increase pollution. This is a revenue raising measure pure and simple and has nothing to do with saving Cornwall. It is using a populist argument to persuade people that an extra tax is justifiable. The net result will be that it will do nothing for global warming but create suspicion and hostility to any future 'green' legislation.

Dan Evans ● 6792d

The message I get from this thread so far is lots of anger that anyone has the temerity to try to get vehicle emissions down but without much light being thrown on the issues.  You are all quite convinced that no-one should be allowed to try to limit your car ownership or use but you can't think up any convincing reasons why not so you rant at entirely inappropriate targets - lentil eating cyclists, road humps, the fact that Richmond isn't trying to control things it doesn't have the power to control (washing machines and out-of-borough cars).To be fair, Dan Evans does bring some rationality back into the argument, but he still seems to adopt the 'don't touch me' tone rather than making considered suggestions for modifying the proposal. - and at the moment it is a proposal out for consultation - to make it more acceptable.It does all seems remarkably negative  But at least no-one has suggested that the underlying problem doesn't exist, which is a huge step forward from what the response would have been only five years ago.  And if we don't do something about it pdq then large chunks of Cornwall won't be there for Dan's great-grandchildren to visit.

Tom Beaton ● 6792d

I sincerely hope that Hounslow don't follow Richmond's lead on this as the move is gesture politics at its worse. They justify it by saying it is targeted at big 4x4s but even in Richmond these are not a big proportion of cars on the road. Anyone who can afford to buy one of these is not going to notice the extra cost of the permit. Most of the cars affected will be family cars. Many of these will be owned by people who are less well off. But they don't buy these cars for prestige they buy them for practicality. If the cost of owning a car is increased by the introduction of these permits they won't buy a new car but they'll hang on to the one they have got for longer. The older the car is the more pollution it gives off.The justification we have for having a slightly bigger car is that it is need for taking everyone down to Cornwall and visiting relatives. I suppose we could get a smaller car and fly instead.

Dan Evans ● 6792d

The road humps add to the polution as you have to slow down then pick up speed again ergo more fuel used, and have you ever watched an ambulance go over them with an emergancy on board?

Edward Fitzgerald ● 6792d

At least it might spare us from anymore of those bleedin' road humps, when will they start on other energy consumers? Washing machines declared illegal? Get your undies down to the Thames riverbank and bash 'em around on a couple of large stones!! But the question is what about all those gas guzzlers that just drive through Richmond but don't live there? I think this is motorism, (well we may just as well have an "ism" of our own).

Vanessa Smith ● 6793d