Forum Topic

Penalty Charges

I just watched a great story on WATCDOG tonight about Penalty charges companies are charging us every month if we don't pay Direct Debit.Thousands of people around the Country are saying it is wrong and a rip off and Mp'S are Backing them.Watchdog has asked EVERYONE to lobby the company/s that you are with who are charging you a Penalty Charge and together we can beat them.WATCHDOG has placed a Template letter for you to print out and send to the company you are protesting against you can find it by going to: www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog and click on the link under "Penalty Charges"those companies that are charging us a penalty charge are:BTVirgin MediaTalk Talk3o2T-MobileVodafoneOrangeBritish GasPowergenN PowerEDFTogether we can Beat them

Simon Anderson ● 6653d36 Comments

What about HSBC then? Only if you're rich are you good enough for them in Poole! It just goes to show, if proof were needed, in how much contempt the banks hold their customers, they don't give a stuff.

Vanessa Smith ● 6624d

Did anyone see Watchdog Last Night?They said as from This week No company can Charge a customer a penalty charge for NOT using Direct Debit in Ireland as Irish Government has brought the new law in.Isn't it about time our Government did the same and take a leaf out of the Irish Book?I wrote to Virgin Media and Powergen and i got letters back from Both companies.Powergen stated they don't charge a penalty charge.Virgin Media stated they do and wouldn't change this.You would think the amount of money Virgin rake in every year they wouldn't need to charge us an extra £5 a month for not using Direct Debit.I am now looking into switching my account to another provider.

Simon Anderson ● 6624d

Just to cheer us all up and especially insulting after the 'Whistleblower' programme about Barclays last week (appalling). I had to go into a Barclays for someone else today and was talking to a young man whilst waiting, he had gone to the ATM last night to get out £10 and was given a £100. He duly 'phoned Barclays to tell them and also said he was taking the £90 to pay it in first thing today, they told him he would be charged for an unauthorised overdraft!! You couldn't make it up - but he was waiting to see the manager to tell him his opinion of these robbing b******s, and tell them to whistle for their penalty fee or else. I went and bought my daily paper to be greeted with an article saying "£23M pay packet for Barclays Chief (and another £15M next year)........Yes they really are a right load of (b)ankers!!!!!

Vanessa Smith ● 6640d

The Whistleblower programme scheduled for tonight at 9.00.p.m. BBC1 on Banks has been cancelled  for football - typical! Will now be shown at 9.00.p.m this Wednesday for those interested.

Vanessa Smith ● 6648d

Just imagine...if we all paid everything by direct debit,how many people would be laid off by BGas and the like so that their shareholders could get a higher dividend and their cheif execs a fatter pension.

Keith Iddon ● 6650d

...& they will match the price!(PS.  I agree with you about 'old farts'!)

Lynn Clark ● 6650d

NO - old farts!I just thought I would announce a small victory in this sorry saga of greed, having whinged about delivery charges at Comet and Currys - the delivery charges have miraculously gone down! Free on a lot of thigs at Comet and down to a reasonable £20 at Currys for a large fridge/freezer, have stubborn customers brought this about? - We've certainly told them what we think, but have now ordered the item we were after. Great stuff, also BBC 1 on Monday 9.00.p.m. - undercover reporters telling how the banks treat their customers with contempt and rip us off, should get us all nicely fuming.

Vanessa Smith ● 6650d

"I`m with you on this matter Kevin as these days,Direct Debits are quite simply the easiest ways to pay our bills and I pay the mortgage,electric,gas etc using this method.""I cannot fathom why anyone would prefer the hassle of posting chqs each month or queuing at a counter to pay their bills,could it just be that some just do not bother to open a bank account and want any extra admin charges spread between all of us?" Mr FisherI think you didn’t get the point either, now you have seen some other posts on this subject you might think about how it's going to effect your older community.

Ian Roberts ● 6651d

I agree with you completely Bernadette, I find that although I have specified where possible when I want the DD to go out - they rarely do go on that day, which annoys me intensely. I face "biddiedom" far too soon for my liking but I am not against new ideas at all, but why do I just get the feeling all these things are not done for the benefit of the customer? Simon has a point we do live in a rip-off society, I would have thought the thousands of people taking on the banks over penalty charges tells you all you need to know, it is sheer greed. As for the Post Office closures - when the Government started to pay benefits direct into bank accounts it was the death knell of the local P.O., no doubt it is more secure and safe, it was also recognised as making it easier for benefit cheats too. Comet want to charge £50 to delver a fridge/freezer, we live within spitting distance and it's obvious they don't go out and deliver one item at a time, so so far we've told them to stuff it, it really is outrageous, another rip-off to add to the list.

Vanessa Smith ● 6651d

buddies

Jamie Halliday ● 6651d

Do men turn in to old boddies?

Paul Fisher ● 6651d

BTW, as I'll end up being an old biddy one day (hopefully, if I live long enough), I just wanted to say hurray for old biddies!!!

Lynn Clark ● 6651d

Thanks for highlighting the Watchdog letter Simon.  My mum & I were talking about this very point only last night, so I'll print a copy for her too.3 points:1.  Someone mentioned these charges do not include the 'old style BT' - read your bill, they do now, which is the very point my mother & I had a rant about last night!2.  My grandmother, at 80 something, had to open a bank account as the way pensions were paid changed a few years ago.  As she didn't have a passport, driving license or any other acceptable form of identification which is now necessary under the current legislation to open a new bank account (to stop money laundering apparently), she was unable to do so.  I imagine that many 'old biddies' would have the same problem.3.  I am not an 'old biddy' (well, at least I don't think so!).  I bank over the 'phone & internet & I make electronic payments from my accounts.  I do not believe that anyone should have direct access to my money in my bank account.My sister-in-law works for a large energy company & spends her day crediting overcharged Direct Debits (& that's only if the customer spots it & then tries to reclaim it...& all the hassle involved in that!).  She refuses to have any Direct Debits on her personal bank account as she is dealing with this cr*p all day!  Says it all for me.Cash/cheques/credit cards/debit cards/electronic payments are all legal payment methods in this country.  Customers should not be penalised if they do not want to give a company direct access to their money in their bank account.  Nobody should have to give their personal bank details to anyone (unless they really wish to do so, of course).  These companies concerned all made HUGE profits.  Processing payments should not be an issue.

Lynn Clark ● 6651d

Throwing my hat into the ring I would just like to say that although I actually do pay most bills by direct debit I hate the very idea of it.  I don't mind standing orders because that gives me control but direct debits give control of my money to someone else who can take it from my bank on any date that suits them and possibly does not suit me.As far as banks are concerned, I am old enough to remember being paid weekly in cash.  In those days I could always pay my bills and get through the week.  As someone who brought up 3 children single handed, when I had to switch to monthly pay (which made money for my employers) I had to have a bank account (which made money for my bank) and getting through the month was frequently a nightmare.  I would hazard a guess that many people, particularly the elderly, are distrustful of banks and direct debits and to some extent with good reason.  We all now have to service some sort of bank account just to get paid and in doing so frequently incur bank charges etc.  As I understand it with the closing of many local post offices even people who can least afford it, i.e. pensioners and those on benefits (although sometimes perhaps these are the ones that have the most money) are also forced to have  bank accounts just to receive their pensions/benefits.  Frankly I can't see any reason why we should be charged anything at all to pay a bill!  We are all paying for services that are making millions already be it utilities or cable tv.  They all want our business but not content with charging whatever they charge they want that little bit extra because we may not want to give control of our finances to them.

Bernadette Paul ● 6651d

Chip and Pin was covered by watchdog a few weeks ago.It was reported that this system is not safe but the Banks say it is.

Simon Anderson ● 6651d

So why then on the watchdog report most of those that were angry were younger people but you say its all down to the elderly..?

Simon Anderson ● 6651d

"it's the equivalent of shopping at Tesco and being charged for the privilege of going in the shop on top of paying for the goods." Sorry Simon for changing the thread again but I think Vanessa has hit the nail on the head for me. I HATE going to Tescos (and so does my wife and daughter) - the crowds, the parking the queues etc so I shop on-line and pay £5.99 and have them deliver. Well worth it because I actually spend less than if I was going up and down the aisles and being tempted by all those necessary delights. On average I spend £15 a week less by shopping On-Line simply because I wasn't spoilt for choice.  But I'll certainly buy into Vanessa's example!  I say make the people who go to Tescos pay the £5.99 and give us Direct Debit OnLine anoraks the discount. Go even further and give me a car tax discount and Council Tax discount for not using my car or the roads so much.  I guess even a step further and some sort of anti pollution rebate should be in order too?

Steve Taylor ● 6652d

There's more problems ahead! "Boots, Asda and Tesco all now refuse cheques. Petrol stations long ago claimed writing them holds up the queues of restless impatient drivers, and went for plastic only in mid-2005. Chip and pin earlier this year have dealt the death blow."http://comment.independent.co.uk/columnists_a_l/joan_bakewell/article2110273.ece

Ian Roberts ● 6652d

The thread was started by discussing this list.BTVirgin MediaTalk Talk3o2T-MobileVodafoneOrangeBritish GasPowergenN PowerEDF

Ian Roberts ● 6652d

"most of them haven’t got enough money to put in a bank let alone pay by direct debit."Why on earth would they have cable TV or a mobile phone then? "So why shouldn’t they have freedom of choice on how they wish to pay there bills without paying extra for the privilege or aren’t they allowed a voice in this community of I’m a Thirty something person and no one else counts? "As has been pointed out previously they can always switch suppliers if they are not happy with the payment arrangements of their present one. Your argument would have some merit if we were talking about old style BT/British Gas Monopolies but all the companies on Watchdog's hit list are in competitive markets. It's up to them how they want to be paid and up to the consumer whether they think that arrangement suits them. Whatever the merits of the old some of them do like a good moan and this is just the sort of thing they like to get their teeth (real or false) into. If they can afford a fiver a month for the pleasure of a good whine then good luck to them.

Andy Jones ● 6652d

Barry“Two Old biddies” Kevin is also "into" ignorance..........sad man!

w John Michael Atkinson ● 6652d

Kevin“Two Old biddies” I see you’re into ageism, what have you got against older people who have been use to paying by cash all theirs lives, most of them haven’t got enough money to put in a bank let alone pay by direct debit. So why shouldn’t they have freedom of choice on how they wish to pay there bills without paying extra for the privilege or aren’t they allowed a voice in this community of I’m a Thirty something person and no one else counts?   

Ian Roberts ● 6652d

Kevin - You aren't really serious are you? - the banks must be the biggest rip-off merchants you can think of - to me they are a necessary evil - but they are out and out con men and I can understand people's reluctance to use them.

Vanessa Smith ● 6652d

VanessaI had some students from Germany come to staay, and they thought the same as you.........a rip off. I think it sad that BT wish to penalise those people who cannot afford to have a bank account £4.50 for paying by an alternative way, that is taking the P***. One of the phone company's that I was with at one time, set up a DD and took out £29 without my permission. On contacting the bank in question customer service, they told me there was nothing wrong, as they (The phone company) had already had my details to do so even though I had cancelled it! Their advice was to "find an alternative method of payment if I was concerned, so I can fully undersatnd peoples reluctance to pay this way.

w John Michael Atkinson ● 6652d

'Some people don't trust banks and some haven't got accounts with banks i don't think you can blame a couple of "old Biddies" 'I don't see how some people's paranoia or lack of financial nous should be the responsibility of other companies and ultimately the rest of us who will end up paying more. Nobody is being ripped off. These charges are well advertised because the companies want people to switch to direct debit and if people don't like paying them then they could use another service."they fell out with SKY now Virgin Media customers have lost channels but we still have to pay the same for less channels as before."Er.. no. If you don't think the service is worth it you can cancel it at anytime.'We live in a Rip of Country'As long as there are mugs around there will be rip offs but charging customers more who insist on paying in the least convenient way is not a rip off.

Andy Jones ● 6652d

Talking of rip-offs - we want to go and see Dancing on Ice it will cost about £100 for the evening but what's really got my dander up is that there is a "booking fee" of £4.50 each ticket, the cheapest is £40 each! You only book once so how that is justified I don't know, it's the equivalant of shopping at Tesco and being charged for the privilege of going in the shop on top of paying for the goods. If they want people to keep going to the theatre and supporting all these things they ought to sort this out - God alone knows what tourists here must think.

Vanessa Smith ● 6652d

Some people don't trust banks and some haven't got accounts with banks i don't think you can blame a couple of "old Biddies" i think you have respect for your elders for a start!I don't mind paying 50p-£1 charge but they are charging around £5 a month according to Watchdog.The professor who helped Watchdog stop these ridiculous Bank Charges even agrees the charges are ridiculous its just companies trying to get more money out of us customers i think we pay enough already.Take Virgin Media, recently they fell out with SKY now Virgin Media customers have lost channels but we still have to pay the same for less channels as before.We live in a Rip of Country

Simon Anderson ● 6652d

The extra cost of non-DD vs DD is probably a lot more than 50p or a £1. Certainly in businesses that I have been associated with we would have budgetted for a lot more. The reason is that non-DD account for a much much higher proportion of deliquent payers and the admin associated with that can be very costly. Even if people do pay they often put in the wrong amount, don't sign the necessary forms or numerous other things that means the payment fails. The net cost of processing this per transaction is rising because fewer and fewer people are paying this way. Ironically the BBC on which Watchdog appears actually charge people more to pay their licence fee by direct debit if they want to pay quarterly which surely is ripping off the less well off who need to stagger payments. Perhaps Watchdog could do an investigation into that. After all none of the companies they are currently having a go at is a monopoly unlike the BBC!

Mike Hardacre ● 6652d

Some companies, like Talk Talk are so totally inept that they cannot be trusted to take money from your account without getting it wrong (surprisingly enough - always in their favour).see: http://www.oliverbrown.me.uk/2006/05/17/talktalk-problems/As Vanessa says, it would be reasonable if companies only charged the 50p or £1 that non DD payments actually cost - the rip-off is in charging 500-1000% more than the actual cost.

John Coxall ● 6652d

I cannot remember the last time I stepped into a bank Simon as my accounts are online and I also pay my Credit Card bills using this method.

Paul Fisher ● 6652d

I don't think anyone is saying customers should be ripped off - but it is a fact that most of us do pay our bills by DD, and if firms only charged the real admin. cost then people wouldn't mind. That's where the rip off is, they are not content with basic costs they always have to add on more. I also think that a lot of lederly people or those on a fixed budget would rather pay in person, I know my Mum always did, instead of constantly penalising people perhaps they could try incentives if you pay by DD,let's face it these big comapanies can afford a little bit of carrot.

Vanessa Smith ● 6652d

So basically because a few old biddies who are paid up members of the awkward squad want to do it their way the rest of us have to pay more?Nobody is being ripped off here - they are choosing a more expensive option.

Andy Jones ● 6652d

PaulDon't you have to queue at the Bank?????

Simon Anderson ● 6652d

As Watchdog reported last Night the Admin charge is between 50p and £1 so why charge £5 upwards its the customer getting ripped off.2 elderly ladies on the show last night said they wanted to deal with there money themselves and not threw a bank.Its a total rip off and thousands have joined the campaign against this including MP'S so you think its OK for customers to be ripped off??

Simon Anderson ● 6652d

I`m with you on this matter Kevin as these days,Direct Debits are quite simply the easiest ways to pay our bills and I pay the mortgage,electric,gas etc using this method.I cannot fathom why anyone would prefer the hassle of posting chqs each month or queuing at a counter to pay their bills,could it just be that some just do not bother to open a bank account and want any extra admin charges spread between all of us?

Paul Fisher ● 6652d

Direct debit is a convenient way to pay for both the consumer and the company. The admin costs involved for people who don't want to pay this way are much higher so the choice is either a penalty charge or the cost being passed on to the rest of us.If you don't want to pay a penalty charge why not just pay by direct debit or switch to a supplier that doesn't levy one?

Andy Jones ● 6653d