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The postings on this thread since 5 Feb make interesting reading and I would tend to agree with some parts of all of them. I believe Mr Calvi-Freeman has deservedly taken a lot of stick as the length of this project has undoubtedly caused disruption to very many of residents and road-users. However, I agree totally with Tim Henderson that Chris must be thanked for at least responding on this forum, even if his responses were not what we wanted to hear and even if we were frustrated by some of his utterings. WE have, quite rightly I believe, been quite harsh with our criticisms so we shouldn't complain if Mr Freeman tries to defend his position with equally as much vigour even if we have issues with what he is telling us and how he is telling us.Personally I think sarcasm is a fine sense of humour and I find sarcastic remarks very funny indeed and they make reading and contributing on this forum worthwhile. I would struggle to find a good comedian / comedienne  these days who doesn't base his/her  repertoire on sarcasm. And indeed we hear rude and sarcastic remarks being uttered every week in the House of Commons and our 'leaders' all chuckle along with it. Why should we commoners and civil servants behave any differently? We haven't as yet resorted to calling anyone a cross between Mr Bean and Stalin yet have we?I sincerely hope that Mr Calvi-Freeman and all the posters can be grown up enough to accept some flack and continue to post on issues such as this. I am sure this project has been a learning curve for Mr Freeman and he will no doubt have benefited from some of the posts. Not least that he will never again allow a Utility Co to run roughshod over him and prevent him from doing his job which has effected thousands of us daily.    I hope Council Leaders have learnt something from this thread too and would welcome their contributions (at their peril perhaps?)

Steve Taylor ● 6376d

Mr Calvi-Freeman – thank you for your response. My flatmate who works in another London Council in east London was amazed by the way you answered my post and says she would have been in big trouble speaking to a member of the public in that way, but obviously Hounslow Council’s standards are different. You have certainly damaged Hounslow Council’s reputation. Yes I was being sarcastic but you have stated that you are the project manager for this job but it doesn’t seem to have been managed at all. I am not certain when it was started but the number of postings on this thread indicate what a nightmare it has been. You have always blamed other people such as the water company but this should all have been sorted out before you started. As the project manager, how many meetings did you have with the water company and the other people with pipes and wires in the road before you started? Surely you found out what was under the road? What programmes did you agree for their working? If they are not working as agreed, what action have you taken with senior management in these companies?  I am really not interested when you visit the site or that you do that on your journey to and from work. I think from the Chiswick website that you perhaps live somewhere there so I think what you are saying is that you stop at this site on your way past to work which is nothing special. I don’t see why you would visit late at night because there aren’t many workmen around even in the rush hours!    Just please get this job finished, please let us all know where your next project will be and please make sure that it is planned out before you start digging in the road

Neena Patel ● 6380d

What a genuinely unpleasant individual you appear to be Ms Patel.  I have endeavoured throughout this project to keep everyone informed and have explained in great detail the impediments to completing the scheme more quickly.  Yet you still choose to blame me for the inefficiencies of other organisations who are outside the Council’s control and over whom we have little if any sanction, and you have now resorted to basic sarcasm, the lowest form of wit.I put the resurfacing back just one more week (to 26/2) as I reasoned that it would be prudent to have this buffer in case Thames Water didn’t meet their finally-agreed programme and in order to avoid extra costs or disruption should the resurfacing have to be postponed at the eleventh hour, later this month, or worse to have Thames Water dig up the new carriageway again shortly afterwards.  But again, this has simply been met with criticism over the web.I make at least one visit to this site each day, six days a week, and have been relentless in personally chasing contractors to progress their works and pick up and secure their barriers etc.  Short of bringing my own pick and shovel, there is nothing more that I could have done.  Please note that I am not simply the project manager for this scheme but have much wider responsibilities and many competing priorities on my time.  Incidentally, I do these visits en route to and from work (sometime very late at night) in order to minimise Council time and expense.Thames Water’s contractor started on site yesterday and I met with him and BT on site this morning to again chivvy them along.  Our Area Highways Engineer has also paid numerous visits.  The upgrade of the area outside the shop and Brent Lea is nearing completion and the contractors there are doing an excellent job.  New street lighting has been installed and cycle stands and seats will go in shortly.  This local improvement will benefit anyone using the shop and help to secure its future as an important local amenity.  The reason this wasn’t built earlier in the scheme is that it had to wait until funds were negotiated from TfL and the statutory consultation process completed.By all means organise an event on site Ms Patel – in fact I was wondering about organising one myself, for those who have helped bring the scheme to completion.  BYO sandwiches.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6381d

Interesting bit on the ChiswickW4 forum about Hammersmith & Fulham fining utility companies for slow perfrormance on roadworks. Probably easier to do when they initiate the works rather than where there is a complicated multi-agency project - but it is good to see the big stick being used." Thames Water, National Grid and EDF Energy top list of worst offendersRogue utility companies are being held to account by Hammersmith & Fulham Council for unnecessarily prolonged or delayed road works. Last year utility companies were fined £220,000 for overrunning road works that equated to an incredible 1,008 days.H&F Council is also challenging utility companies to keep the time they spend carrying out works down to a minimum by disputing proposals where it is felt companies are overstating the time it will take.Councillor Nicholas Botterill, H&F Cabinet Member for Environment, said, "We are doing everything we can to make utility companies responsible for their actions, and to hold them to account for their shortcomings."Local residents suffer from a great deal of inconvenience when roads and pavements are dug up, and where we can identify road works overrunning as a result of a particular company's poor performance, we will act."The charges that can be applied are set by the Department of Transport, and the level is dependant on the amount of traffic using the road and the likely duration of the works. On major routes the council can charge £2,000 a day on works that will take more than ten days to complete, and £500 a day on works that will take no more than three days. In less congested or residential areas these fees are reduced to £250 and £100 a day respectively.In 2005/2006 the three worst offenders were Thames Water, National Grid and EDF Energy, with the same three companies topping the list in 2006/2007.In June 2005, H&F Council was the first in London to serve legal Improvement Notices against a number of utility companies. They were introduced when the quality of repair work on highways failed to meet quality standards up to 40 per cent of the time. Since then the performance of most companies has improved, with some notable exceptions.H&F Council has also brought prosecutions against utility companies when they have been found to put the public at risk through dangerous working practices. Last year there were ten successful prosecutions and two official cautions issued for dangerous working practices. Of those ten prosecutions, nine were against Thames Water. Last year Thames Water was summoned to a town hall summit to explain themselves to councillors, residents and amenity groups.January 11, 2008"

Tim Henderson ● 6405d

I e-mailed the three Syon Cllrs (Jon Hardy,Caroline Andrews and Shirley Fisher) regarding this matter and have just received this response from Cllr Jon Hardy which he asked me to post on here."Yes Paul it did: thanks for the heads-up.  I have been trying to get on to the forum ever since but it keeps chucking me out.  If Either Shirley or Caroline have access before me please would they rpeort the following: I had a discussion with Chris Calvi Freeman on this matter in November and again at the early part of December; the problem is not the Council but a) Transport for London who were being a bit obtuse about allowing us to have the vehicular path in front of the Brent Lea shops (they said the exit onto the London Road was too close to the Pelican crossing) and it is a tribute to Chris CF that he has managed to get this to happen at all; he has played an absolute blinder in bringing them around to allowing what was agreed locally b) utilities companies who did not get their act together to do some essential maintenance work at the same time as LBH contractors were widening the road for the bus lane.  Rather than have the new work dug up again Chris CF rather wisely held off finishing our work until the contractors were finished so as to end up with a better quality end result; you can imagine that utilities may not have restored the footway/roadway to as good a state as our contractors may have found it!  Of course the utilities dragged their heels on that and the work took far too long but Chris CF has been on their case persistantly.  I have noticed him down on site many times as I have travelled along this section of London Road. I hope that brings everyone up to speed.  If either Shirley or Caroline are able to post this before me I  would be grateful as I still have not got the e-mail from the Forum that will allow me access. Cheers Jon"

Paul Fisher ● 6415d

"(Incidentally when I came to the UK I was advised by a friend never to work for a  local authority as “ no matter what you do you will be the subject of cranks and ‘generally superior’ individuals who take delight in finding fault and demeaning anyone who they see as beneath their status.)” Welcome to the UK Chris.  It is true there are a lot of cranks out there but I don't believe any have contributed to this thread. These are mainly concerned taxpayers, Brentford businesses people and potential road-users whose daily lives and well-being has been severely affected by the mess and chaos.  Did your friend also warn you that the Brits don't settle for mediocrity?"For the same reason I was advised not to try to communicate via websites such as these"Good point -  but your choice. Personally I'd go for the forum to present your answers to stakeholders' queries as its a lot less formal and cheaper than an official lengthy Council Investigation to ascertain exactly what went wrong!  Although I am sure many would argue that they would like to see this issue debated and investigated on the Hounslow.gov.uk  webcam as an official enquiry? "I even picked up a few barriers that someone had kicked over.  Reading your missives I do wonder why I bother"  Me too - as a Project Manager for a private company - this is something I'd have delegated but if I did receive any criticism of one of my projects (even if uncalled for)  from the customer  I'd never respond "I wonder why I bother"  I may voice this opinion privately to my boss or my colleagues but to say it openly to the customer.........I'd be out of a job in minutes!

Steve Taylor ● 6415d

Steve -“Quite a shame that discussions only took place with the utilities companies immediately prior to Christmas.”  I did not say ONLY.  It should have been clear from previous postings that discussions had been progressing from the time the BT and Thames Water problems first came to light.“A year to complete an £800K project is laughable.”  Even with the problems encountered we are still well short of a year.  The majority of the (not involving the utilities) was achieved in just a few months last summer.Thank you for the suggested contacts at Thames Water.  We are working through accepted channels but if these do not bear fruit very soon I will be using other options.Kevin - The nub of the Thames Water problem is that they have an old, brittle and shallow water main.  Now that it is exposed they did not want it re-covered but instead wanted the Borough to pay for its replacement.  The national Codes of Practice are quite clear in this circumstance  - the responsibility rests with the utility.  I am trying to ensure that this scheme is completed within budget and am resisting any calls to throw public money into a private utility.Paul – “…your reply is appreciated but why do we have to wait until the end of February for resurfacing, haven't we waited long enough?.”  The resurfacing had been programmed for December but was called off as the BT and TW works were not complete.  Major resurfacing has to be programmed, involving notifications and approvals under the Traffic Management Act and a comprehensive health & safety plan etc.  February is the earliest that we were able to book the contractor with sufficient confidence that the BT and TW works would be completed beforehand, so as to ensure that the resurfacing was not called off again and that no rework will be required later.  In the meantime the Area Highways Engineer has visited today and is arranging for any necessary short term remedial works to the carriageway to be done ASAP.Jim - With regard to your photos – yes there are a number of unfinished sites and yes, some of them have collected fallen leaves and general litter.  Would it make you happier if someone scrambled down and picked it all up?  The fallen barriers have already been noted and were reinstated by mid afternoon today.  Rocking and noisy inspection covers in the carriageway are the responsibility of the relevant utility  - should you feel suitably civic-minded you could always report some of these  - failing that, the highways inspectors do this.  There has been very little re-work on this project  - a few sq metres of asphalt have been replaced due to BT needing for some reason to reroute some of its cables late in the process instead of using the new ducting and inspection pits that had been installed prior to the asphalting.  As for your (hopefully) final photo, of the London Road northern footway west of Rowan Road, you may have noticed the number of ducts and pipes threading through this site and the challenge for BT/Barhale to accommodate their services.  The kerbline is being reconstructed and inspection chambers cast in-situ  - quite an intricate job.  This was necessitated by the decision to widen the carriageway by a small additional amount than originally planned, in order to accommodate a 1.5m wide cycle lane in the westbound direction as well as the traffic lanes and eastbound bus lane  - sometimes achieving a street network to benefit the next 50 years of users causes significant disruption, although I do agree that the pace of work has been too slow here.“I expect that the Contractor is waiting to get some clear instructions from the Utilities and TFL..who might still be finishing off last years holiday entitlements, bank holiday entitlements and customary sick leave entitlements!. “  I am not sure who you expect to be amused by this sort of supercilious remark.  It does no service to the people who work on the roads and no credit to yourself. (Incidentally when I came to the UK I was advised by a friend never to work for a  local authority as “ no matter what you do you will be the subject of cranks and ‘generally superior’ individuals who take delight in finding fault and demeaning anyone who they see as beneath their status.”  For the same reason I was advised not to try to communicate via websites such as these.)    By the way,  my family and I were all sick with ‘flu through the whole holiday period but this did not stop me rugging up and visiting the site and I even picked up a few barriers that someone had kicked over.  Reading your missives I do wonder why I bother.Vanessa  - “…and then the blame game starts.”  Happy New Year from the kettle to the pot.  :-)

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6416d

Immediately prior to and over the Xmas period I have been in discussion with the Council’s principal and resurfacing contractors and the utilities, and am able to confirm the following:· The BT works in the carriageway will be completed in January.  Several minor sites were completed a day or two prior to Xmas and the holes were filled in.  Their main site, immediately west of Rowan Road, caused them some delay due to the lack of footway space to install their ducting, but this is BT’s problem and they have now found a solution.· The drive-through at the Brent Lea mini-market was not part of the original scheme but was the subject of later consultation when it was brought to the Council's attention that the viability of the shop, which of course serves many nearby residents, would be enhanced by the provision of some short term parking.  A local consultation was undertaken and the ward Members approved the proposal, which was then commenced ASAP following the legal formalities.  FM Conway will be back on site immediately in the New Year and this project should be completed in January.· The Thames Water mains issue is still the subject of negotiation but I am hoping to see a resolution this coming week.· The complete resurfacing of London Road from Busch Corner to Commerce Road is now programmed to commence on 18 February and should be complete by the end of that month.  · The highways engineers will inspect the site this coming week and ascertain the extent of any temporary patching required to maintain a reasonable road surface through until the resurfacing takes place.The costs of the scheme are under regular monitoring and at this stage there does not appear to be any significant variance from the predicted cost as reported originally to the Area Committee.  In terms of costs and civils work, the scheme is approximately 97% complete, not counting the resurfacing, which is effectively a separate but linked project.  Full completion would have been achieved well before Christmas had the BT and Thames Water problems not been encountered.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6418d

Kevin, VanessaYou are of course entitled to your opinions and I could only state that, over a 27 year professional career, I have spent many millions of pounds and dollars in three different countries and achieved very significant improvements in transport and traffic systems, almost exclusively on time and within budget and that I am as annoyed and disappointed as anyone with regard to the current scheme delays.  In the case of the London Road scheme, as stated previously in this thread, all the utilities were consulted in detail, well in advance, as per normal practice.  While I believe there were some shortcomings with the consultancy that undertook that coordination, 99% of the fault lies with the utilities for not having dealt with their issues at the appropriate time and for failing to communicate the fact that they either had problems or had not mobilised effectively.  Frustratingly, the Council has very little legal power, in respect of schemes initiated by the highway authority as opposed to utility initiated works, to determine and enforce reasonable completion dates.  While BT have just been plain slow, Thames Water have been wholly unreasonable, and are currently arguing a case that is completely in opposition to the nationally-set guidelines and code of practice in this regard, and I am currently evaluating alternatives to force a resolution.  This is not a case of inefficient or incompetent forward planning by the Borough, although I am prepared to acknowledge that the delays to the completion of this scheme could reasonably give that inference.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6438d

Keith,  JenniferAs previously explained, there was little that could be done by the Borough to complete this scheme over the past two months until the utilities (BT and Thames Water) completed their works.  Their progress has been painfully slow.  Six weeks ago, BT undertook to have their works completed by 7 December, including the worksite west of Rowan Road , where their contractor Barhale is working (or at least should be).On this basis, the resurfacing of 90% of the area  (as described previously) was programmed to commence tonight (10 December) but unfortunately, following a site meeting with the resurfacing contractor last week, we have had to postpone this work until the New Year, as the quantity and location of unfinished utilities works did not allow the resurfacing to proceed safely or efficiently.  We are currently chasing BT for a new completion date.  We are in discussion with Thames Water and are exploring all options to resolve the problem they have with their water main near the toucan crossing.The Council’s contractor, FM Conway is currently:• Installing the new pedestrian refuge on London Road immediately west of Rowan Road.  (We had intended to leave this until Barhale were finished nearby but given the BT delays I have asked that this be now completed ASAP.)• Installing ducting to two of the refuges to allow for possible future conversion to pelican crossings without having to disrupt the new road surface once it is laid.• Installing a drive-through and small short-stay parking area outside the Brent Lea store, following a local consultation and approval by the Ward members.• Tidying up as many of the loose ends as possible, given the above issues.At this stage I would expect the whole area to look substantially more resolved by Christmas, with the completion of the drive-through in early January and commencement of the resurfacing as soon as the BT and Thames Water issues are resolved.Chris Calvi-Freeman Head of TransportLondon Borough of Hounslow  

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6439d

NeenaI am glad you have taken the trouble to read the whole thread.  Yes, I am responsible for this scheme, along with several others in the borough.  I was happy, and still am, to explain its benefits.  I am naturally very disappointed at the delays in completing the scheme, and am doing everything possible to get it finished.  I am on site almost every morning en route to work, and on the telephone and email several times a day cajoling the various parties to make progress.  The toucan traffic signs were switched on yesterday morning and the temporary signals have been removed.  FM Conway is clearing away construction debris and reducing its stockpiles of materials etc, but can do little more until BT finishes diverting cables at several locations.  Immediately each of these is completed, Conway will return and fill the hole and restore the road surface.  While the area looks unsightly, it is much closer to completion than the number of barriers etc would suggest.  As I said before, the disruption to through traffic and inconvenience to pedestrians is minor.  In fact the main issue now is almost entirely aesthetic.I have completed a preliminary review of the work undertaken for the Borough by the LBPN term consultants.  Some errors appear to have been made here and this will be taken into consideration when issuing further contract work.I do not agree with your assertion that “no-one did proper planning”.  As I have said earlier, the Borough has been let down by other parties, and this has mainly been outside of the Borough’s control.  I am responsible for the project, but I am not prepared to accept sole responsibility for the poor performance of independent utilities outside of the Borough’s control.The scheme is not “turning into a fiasco”.  It is simply taking longer to compete than anticipated.  We did not publish a definitive timescale as there is always a risk of problems with major schemes such as this one, which are always one-offs and it is impossible to ascertain precisely what issues will be uncovered until work proceeds.  The costs of the scheme are being closely monitored and the overall costs contained within budget  - the problems encountered by the utilities will not translate into additional costs for the Borough or TfL.  The benefits of the scheme will accrue over an extended period and will start to be obvious very soon.  Once again, I apologised for the delay in completing this scheme and any inconvenience incurred.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6490d

I am hesitant to continue this thread as I have made the Borough’s position abundantly clear in earlier postings.  These include a detailed justification of the scheme, a reference to the Committee report that set out the extensive consultation that was undertaken before the Area Committee approved it, and an explanation of the reasons for delays to the scheme’s implementation.  In short, the scheme will create a major improvement in bus service quality and reliability by allowing the buses to progress without delay as far east as Pets at Home regardless of the length of the traffic queues at any particular time.  The scheme will also provide 1.5m wide cycle lanes, and raised entry treatments at the side roads, as well as extensive footway repaving.  The raised entries are now all complete and the footways are 95% complete.The road is “navigable” and delays to traffic due to construction processes have been minor.  The carriageway is currently uneven but will be completely resurfaced at the conclusion of the project.  If drivers note the presence of the various signs and barriers and adopt an appropriate speed there should be no undue delay or discomfort.  Unfortunately, a small minority of drivers appear incapable of doing this, and it alarms me how this minority roars past people working on the road, leaving precious little margin for error.  The footways are also in safe and useable condition, with the various excavations barriered off.  I had hoped that Transport for London would have been able to switch the permanent pedestrian signals back on by now, but evidently they are having a small technical problem, which should be rectified in the next day or two.  BT is still relocating their apparatus, and we are moving towards a resolution of the problem with Thames Water.  Unfortunately, much of the apparatus is very old and it was not until the carriageway surface was lifted until the utilities could come to a firm view as to the need to relocate, replace or protect their plant, once they had determined its depth and condition.  This, as I have mentioned earlier, is outside the Borough’s direct control, although we are in daily contact with the utilities and are encouraging them to complete their works ASAP.The westbound bus stop has been moved back to its final position outside the mini-mart.  A new shelter will be installed shortly.  The eastbound bus stop will return to its permanent position about the end of this week.We hope to be able to resurface approximately 6000 square metres of carriageway in November, leaving only about 300 square metres (where the water main remains to be diverted) for completion later.  The scheme should therefore be substantially completed well before Christmas.  This is of course several months later than I had hoped, but I would once again point out that this delay is due to factors outside the Borough’s control, and offer my apologies for any inconvenience suffered by local residents and road users. Chris Calvi-FreemanHead of TransportLondon Borough of Hounslow

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6495d

PaulAs noted earlier in this thread (see my postings of 6/9), the delay has been caused entirely by the statutory undertakers.  Colleagues and I have kept constant pressure on them but aside from this our options to force them to “get with the programme” are limited.Thankfully National Grid is now finished and our contractor, FM Conway, has returned to site and is currently completing the raised entry treatments at Brent Lea and Syon Park entrance.  BT is taking an age to complete their works but arrangements are being made to restore the carriageway and remove the barriers etc as each of their sites is completed.Thames Water is proving difficult.  There is an aged trunk main in the carriageway which they have been aware of since well before the project commenced.  However, now that it is exposed they are reluctant to cover it again as it is at insufficient depth, despite the Borough attempting to accommodate this by bringing the carriageway surface up a little at the toucan crossing.  Thames Water will probably replace this main - at least this will reduce the likelihood of their wanting to dig up this stretch again in the next few years – but this will take several months.  The current plan is to complete the whole scheme including the resurfacing ASAP, except for the Thames Water site, which will be resurfaced once Thames Water is clear.While it is easy to criticise, this scheme is complex and the Borough’s desire to see a fast and smooth transpiration from previous to new road configuration has been thwarted by the above issues, for which the Council cannot reasonably be held accountable.Chris Calvi-FreemanHead of TransportLB Hounslow

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6514d

Further to my posting of this morning, the current status of works on London Road near Brent Lea is:The BT crew has returned to site after an absence (for which we are seeking an explanation).  BT are connecting cables, utilising ducting installed for them some time ago before the footways were repaved.  As each site is finished, FM Conway will backfill and install a temporary carriageway surface pending resurfacing of the full stretch at the completion of the utility works.National Grid (Gas) :  The major works in front of the mini-market are nearing completion.  The work at the Brent Lea junction has been completed and the kerbline will be reinstalled in the next few days. The final connection at the Syon Park entrance is programmed for next Tuesday and they are hoping to complete the reinstatement by the end of next week. Thames Water  - I have called an urgent meeting to ascertain the full cause of the delay and the way forward.  This will take place next Wednesday - the first opportunity when the relevant personnel are available.The relocated toucan signals have been installed but cannot be switched on (by TfL) until the Thames Water works are complete, but meantime the temporary signals are providing safe passage for pedestrians.Again, I can give a categorical assurance that colleagues and I are doing everything possible to get this work completed ASAP.PS:  Jim, the main "civils" work was progressed quickly and efficiently by the Council's contractor, FM Conway.  Until they reached the stage where they could progress no further, due to utility works, they were on site in large numbers, 6-7 days/week, as local residents will recall..  The worksite may currently look untidy, (and deserted in the early evening) but it is under close monitoring and all excavations etc are safely behind barriers.  Pedestrian paths are safe and clearly signed.  I look forward to your sparkling "after" photos in a few weeks.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6533d

Joe, sorry for not responding immediately to your penultimate criticism.  I wasn’t sure how long you would be sitting in your quiet room.  However, I wonder whether, while you were in there, you reflected on the breathtaking misrepresentation of my previous response that you made on 5 June.The vast majority of the costs of the scheme are involved in the section between Rowan Road and the railway embankment, along which traffic queues form every morning and often in the evenings.  This is the section where the major road widening and statutory service diversion (gas, BT etc) is taking place, where the footways have been extensively repaved and where the relocated bus stops will improve conditions for bus passengers and let other traffic flow smoothly past stationary buses at the stops.  Whether and how often the queues extend further than Rowan Road is of course irrelevant to the decision to implement a scheme between the above two points.  The scheme will bring time-saving and service reliability benefits to hundreds of bus passengers, and safety benefits to cyclists (cycle lanes) and pedestrians (raised entry treatments and narrowing of side road entrances etc).  The quantum of the benefits of the scheme are so large that there was no question in TfL’s eyes that it should be funded.Whether the traffic queue extends back from Rowan Road to Syon Lane on average twice a week, or three times or every peak hour is not the key issue.  The key issue is that whenever it does, it affects the reliability and consistency of the bus service and undermines the improvements made to the bus network by the new buses and more frequent services now operating.  I have made this clear at least twice in this thread, and I stand by my comment that the queues extend back to Syon Lane sufficiently often for this length of bus lane to be justified.  The additional cost of this extension, while the contactor was set up on site and before the carriageway is resurfaced, is less than ten percent of the total scheme cost.  By extending the scheme to Brent Lea, we have future-proofed it against reasonable and predictable increases in traffic volumes over future decades, rather than doing “half a job”, which is a criticism often levelled at roading schemes.Finally, while you we asking about queue lengths, you did not ask about the more important parameter, journey times.  My apologies for neglecting to tell you that a number of point to point timing counts were made on the buses last autumn.  The surveyor noted that:  “Journey time surveys indicated that a journey that should take a few seconds often takes as much as 5 minutes especially in the morning peak and sometimes as much as 15 minutes."In fact, the benefit/cost model was calculated on the observation that average AM peak bus journeys took 6.0 minutes and PM peak journeys 5.5 minutes, against off-peak (unobstructed) journey times of 2.0 minutes.  These time savings, multiplied by the number of bus users (ascertained from TfL data) and subjected to industry-accepted time values, established a very high B:C, which, when coupled with safety and environmental benefits, easily exceeded TfL’s minimum criteria for a scheme of this type.  As a Borough officer, I would have let the borough down if I had not recommended to the local Members that they take the opportunity to maximise the above benefits by approving a scheme which extended the bus lane to Syon Lane.Chris Calvi-FreemanHead of TransportLondon Borough of Hounslow

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6622d

Chris Calvi-Freeman wrote; "I (and colleagues and the local Members) believe the incidence of queues extending back to Syon Lane are sufficiently common (at least several times a week in peak hours) for this length of bus lane to be justified." Now let me get this right, our Councillors agreed to spend £625,000 because they 'believe' something might be happening? I think I need to go off and sit in a quiet room for a few hours to get my head round this! But before I do, perhaps I could just point out to Mr Calvi-Freeman that to me it would seem very easy to get some hard facts on the length of queues. You either pay a couple of people to stand during the peak hours at a reasonable distance apart in the area where you expect the queues to extend to and then get them to record the position of the last car in the queue at regular intervals. Do this for a couple of typical weeks and you should get reasonable data. Alternatively, you could probably use a couple of video cameras and do some time lapse photography to give you the same data. It really doesn't seem like rocket science! If this data is not available and it would seem that it isn't because, amazingly, it wasn't measured, could we please have some data on what I believe is called the cost/ benefit of this scheme which presumably would be needed to justify the expense. I presume this would revolve around the bus occupancies and the time saving of the passengers?(though how you would know the time saving when you don't know how long passengers are being delayed beats me!)

Verification Required ● 6626d

Joe, the answer is that there is no simple and easy way of measuring the length of the queues over a long period, but I (and colleagues and the local Members) believe the incidence of queues extending back to Syon Lane are sufficiently common (at least several times a week in peak hours) for this length of bus lane to be justified.  I can only reiterate that bus lanes are more about keeping buses to timetable in the face of these reasonably-frequent-but-not-continuous queues, than they are about increasing bus speeds.  Every time a queue builds up (whether once a week or every other day, it doesn’t really matter), this queue affects the running time of the buses, causing them to bunch up and offer an unreliable, unattractive service.  We have secured the funds and are doing the job properly, in my opinion, rather than doing a little work (i.e. a shorter bus lane) only to revisit in a few years to have another go.Paul.  Glad to hear you are contemplating cycling to work.  Sorry, there is no secret about the cost of the scheme, which is £625k from TfL via the London Bus Priority Partnership, London Cycle Network programme and local safety schemes programme.  Plus £150k for carriageway resurfacing (also from TfL) which would have been done anyway but has been programmed for implementation at the conclusion of the civils work.  I would dispute that traffic builds up to Busch Corner only about 10 times per year - did you monitor it throughout both peaks each day?  Busch Corner is 250m west of Syon Lane; so the queues will not extend as far as that junction as often as they extend to Syon Lane.Vanessa – I won’t comment on Kew Bridge until I know whether anything is in fact proposed by TfL  Regarding TfL funding, the Boroughs have to apply, within the various programmes  - the funds are not simply foist on them.  There have 24 funding programmes including local road safety schemes, accessibility, walking, cycling, bus priority, principal roads maintenance and bridges - to be successful in each, the Borough has to meet the criteria and demonstrate the cost-effectiveness of the planned work.Eileen, large numbers of people use the buses for up to about 18 hours per day, and in fact the buses carry about half of all the people along that stretch of road and make much better use of the space than cars do.  The bus lanes on Harlington Road West (a TfL road) are now 24 hours/day, and cater for a total of 7 bus routes.  I have already stated the reasons why most bus lanes in London are 24/7, but to reiterate, it’s mainly about bus service reliability.  In the case of the London Road bus lane, the pinch point is at Commerce Road and through the town centre.  If there were, say, 100 cars queuing on London Road, it makes no difference to the drivers’ journey time whether they are in one queue of 100 or two of 50, but the latter does not let the buses have any advantage.  In terms of safety, consistency of bus lane hours and the prevention of the sort of uncertainty you have referred to, are beneficial.

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JoeTim asked:  “Where do cars queue back to during the morning rush (0800 to 0830 say) ?”then added:”It wouldn't surprise me if it isn't far away from the Syon Lane junction where the bus lane starts.  If so, there is benefit to the bus user from having the lane that long and having it that long is necessary to give the benefit.”The answer is that cars often queue back to Syon Lane, in both peaks.    Of more relevance, in response to your previous posting (4 May), I pointed out on 5 May:“Traffic queues often extend back as far as Syon Lane and sometimes as far back as Busch Corner.  The bus lane will start immediately east of Syon Lane and will provide priority to buses from that point onwards.  A shorter bus lane would not provide benefits to buses stuck in a longer queue, and would not therefore be so effective in improving bus service reliability in variable traffic conditions, as noted in my previous posting.”In the previous posting (4 May) referred to above, I said:“This scheme, as with all bus priority schemes, aims to improve the speed and reliability of the bus services.  The reliability bit is particularly important here - while traffic queues do not necessarily extend back to Syon Lane every day, when they do, it means delays to buses, affecting the reliability of the service and causing bunching of buses.  In extreme cases, the bus’s next trip may need to be cancelled, leaving bus passengers standing and complaining all along the route.The need to increase the efficiency and attractiveness of the bus service and encourage more people to use it should be self-explanatory…”Sorry, but I thought I had already answered the question.

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ChrisExcellent responses though I do not agree with them all.May I enquire of a couple of related items:01 – Is there a table of data that determines/relates to/quantifies the amount of time/cost it takes for travelers of various mode of transport to travel a distance within given environments, such as:In a high density urban environment;- minutes per mile by car- minutes per mile by bus- minutes per mile by bicycle?I realise that certain factors come into play - and forgive me I don't want to hear (read) that people drive differently or cycle at different speeds, because any figures inclusive of the ones hopefully you are about to furnish this forum with, are base upon averages, which is where, in my opinion, the problem lies. More on that later. But I am genuinely intrigued by what gospel of modus travellus all these rules, cycle lanes and bus lanes are enforced upon us are based.For example, when I first moved into Brentford, nearly 5 years ago, there was a 'consultation' on changes to be made to the Chiswick High Road just east of the Chiswick Roundabout. There was a question about whether the bus lane should be peak, 7-7 or 24 hours, accompanied by hourly travel figures by modes of transport (car, bus, cycle etc). Five seconds on a calculator revealed that I was fully justified in still using my car for the journey to Chiswick as the figures demonstrated far more people traveling the distance per hour by car than by bus (apologies to the CO2 fraternity). Travelling this route twice daily as I do today I suggest this is still the case.To the simple car lover such as myself, I found it hard to justify a slower less comfortable journey that went exactly where and when I wanted it too, versus the all stops child crying grumpy driver scenario alternative. All this and actually being statistically beneficial to the traffic movements along the roads I navigated as well.Back to the ’More on that later’.Lies, lies, damn statistics. The old bell curve cometh into play here. We are all being grouped into the ‘average’ of travel and traffic modalities by the bean counters. For example: if there are 5% who, because of there driving skills and family situation use a ‘family vehicle’ and stuff 6-7 into the vehicle for the same journey for the ride to school/station/work/shops AND are so spatially unaware that they use two lanes (the vehicle and 25% bus lane but stop buses using it because blocking the bus lane), then this type of event is actually classified as ‘statistically insignificant’. These individuals are very space efficient – using one vehicle for many people. However, writing these ‘insignificant’ events off creates the inevitable ‘regression to the mean’ statistically dumbing the results down to an average by which all rules and regulations are then enforced.The result: Lowest common denominator – we all travel as slow as the bus, therefore the bus must be the right mode of transport.!02 –Now that the changes to the Chiswick High Road have been implemented (some 4 years after consultation) why is it when you travel east from Chiswick roundabout the central line marking decreases the width of the now one lane to a point at the junction of Power Road it is almost too thin for a standard bus to navigate without possible head-on confrontation from opposing traffic. Were the line painters being given the run-around by their cheap GPS systems as to where to paint the line, or have I missed the deeper implications of the intersection design?And lastly for my oh-too-long rant here – lets just wait and see Brentford grind to a halt when the bus lane on Kew Bridge gets reinstated as it is about to be.Enjoy !

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Cllr Andrews - thanks for the clarification.  I don't regard you as rude as it would be impractical to expect you to trawl through every thread on this site just to see if a question was posed to you.I posed my question to you as you wrote to the local paper recently about consultation on a parking scheme and I had gained the impression from your letter that you would always accept the 'majority view' on any proposal. I am very glad to have your clarification that this is not the case and you will, as an elected representative, take up your own position on issues. Still don't really understand the purpose of your letter as, talking to some friends in the area of one of the recent parking consultations who were 'pro' the scheme and having seen a copy of the information and questions sent out, it seems that the Council was attempting to find out whether or not the residents wanted the parking scheme. The local Committee will then decide from the results whether or not the scheme should go ahead. This seems to me a very sensible and fair way to proceed and if a large majority is against the scheme, then I would expect the local Committee to take that into account when making its decision. I'm afraid your letter just came across as another politician's attempt at cheap political point scoring against the previous administration which, I'm sure you must appreciate, the vast majority of residents are fed up with.  Anyway, back to the bus lane - I don't disagree that a bus lane approaching Commerce Road will be beneficial, it's the sheer, unnecesary length of the bus lane that I take issue with as it's wasting public money and will speed up traffic. I wonder if you or indeed, as you suggest, one of the Syon ward Councillors could explain the economic benefits of it being so long?

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Helen  -“...So the buses can all go to the front of the queue the ones from Isleworth and Hounslow then we have anything from 6 to 8 buses pushing out in front of the cars…”  - eh, yes, that’s the idea  - those buses have lots more people in them than your car and they represent a better use of scarce road space.“... also the buses that are parked at the top of Commerce Rd waiting for a driver to turn up there you go another gridlock.”  - no, the new scheme will provide more space for other traffic to pass stationary buses.“What is needed is a better incentive for people to use the buses like taking away free travel for kids who are left to run riot so passengers wont travel from fear of feral brats because they have nothing better to do…”  Is it really a major issue, and if so is it any different from youths (and others) roaring around in cars with stereos up loud annoying and endangering everyone else because they have nothing better to do?“…cheaper fares than the Oyster gives at the moment for people that need to go to work early and come home…” not sure what you mean but the Oyster gives a 50% discount on bus fares.“As for the 20 mph roads you are lucky to reach that speed even on motorways.”  Sorry, I’ve got to agree with Joe on that one, although it has already been pointed out that there are a few cases where the speed humps are only really necessary (e.g. in cul-de-sacs) to comply with Dft regulations for 20mph zones.Joe – “ Not many people replied to the consultation and those that didn't like the scheme didn't really understand it....... just a bit patronising don't you think? Just what was the point of your consultation if you can so easily dismiss an unfavourable result?”Sorry, I didn’t mean to sound patronising.  My point was that the consultation response rate was very low in this case and those that did respond were more or less evenly split for and against.  It may well have been different if there had been a very high response rate showing strong opposition.  I read every response at least twice  - once as they came in to get a flavour of the public feeling and to see whether any changes could be made to the scheme at the earliest possible stage, and again after the consultation closed, when I went through them all with my assistant and we agreed on how each response should be categorised and which ones we should quote as representative of the various viewpoints.  In fact I recall that we made at least three changes to the scheme in response to the consultation, including the widened cycle lanes.  In the end, it’s my job to manage these projects, including the design of the schemes, the funding and the consultation, and to report objectively to the Area Committee, who make the decisions.  As I said previously, they discussed this scheme at some length before approving it.Paul – “I replied to the consultation and I understood it.  I also asked why we needed the bus lane to be 24 hours (a concept which has always puzzled me) and you advised me that 'most people don't notice if it's not 24 hours and this causes resentment' (or words to that effect).  Another example of pandering to the lowest denominator…”I don’t have my response to you in front of me but I would have said that the vast majority of London motorists are now conditioned to staying out of bus lanes at all times, and that part-time lanes tend to encourage a small minority of motorists to “undertake”, often at quite high speed, which can lead to road rage and also to accidents at junctions when pedestrians or turning traffic do not see the cars in the bus lane.  Also, in this case, what is the point of bringing two lanes of traffic up to the point where the road narrows at the embankment – no-one gets through any faster and, apart from the problems mentioned above, we lose the bus priority on those occasions when for some reason (such as roadworks or an accident further downstream) there is a long delay to all road users.“I don't buy the argument that traffic is backed up every day and I drive AND take the 237/267 to work in Chiswick…”  Perhaps you have been lucky, but from many observations (personal, colleagues, bus drivers etc), I know that the traffic does quite often back as far as Syon Lane or even Busch corner, in both peaks, and this is only likely to get worse as more and more development takes place in Brentford over the coming years and especially if the Inspector gives the okay for a major residential envelopment at Commerce Road.“This money would have been better spent doing something like tidying up Brentford High Street or fixing the ludicrously dangerous pavements in Chiswick High Road. “  Sorry, but it couldn’t.  This scheme was funded from a TfL programme (yes, I know its still ratepayer money…) ring-fenced to bus priority.  By designing holistic schemes the Council has, however, managed to gain improvements to pedestrian facilities including footways from this programme – for example extensive footway replacement on Chiswick High Road west of Acton Lane and east of Chiswick Lane.  At the moment it looks like we will be able to stretch the budget for the current scheme to substantially improve the footways at Brent Lea.Helen  - “Has anybody in "Traffic management" got half a brain, I think not they must all use buses.”Not sure what that says about bus users but I hardly think you’ve scored a point for motorists with that statement.

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Helen – Sorry if I didn’t make this clear – it is not necessary for the Brentford Bridge to be widened in order to get benefits from the bus lane.  The bus lane allows buses to come up to the front of the queue at Brent Lea, so their journey time is reduced.  I realise that as a business driver and presumably non-bus user, this may not strike a chord with you, but you may be interested to know that about half the people who travel along this road in peak hours do so by bus.  Improving the bus service and encouraging more people to commute by bus frees up road space for other road users who cannot feasibly switch modes.  I do not see this as a waste of money, nor do the consultants who have assessed the timesavings.  I do not believe that traffic signals are being deliberately put out of sequence, in fact more of them are being put onto Urban Traffic Control (UTC), which aims to make them work more effectively along busy corridors, although TfL still have a considerable way to go with this.  I cannot comment on the role or effectiveness of the Highways Agency traffic officers, as they do not operate on Borough or TfL roads, only Highways Agency roads, the nearest being the M4.Joe –The consultation involved plans and letters districted to about 900 homes and businesses in the area surrounding the scheme.  Only 54 responses were received, of which 47% were in general support and 53% in general opposition.  Given the low response rate and the known tendency for people who are opposed to a proposal to respond more than those in favour, I do not believe that the consultation showed notable public opposition.  Some of those in opposition to the scheme based their objections on false premises or misunderstandings of what the scheme entailed, despite our best efforts to explain it in the letter and plans.  This is not uncommon and I can cite examples where the Council has implemented proposals against the wishes of some people and those people have acknowledged afterwards that the scheme has indeed improved the local area.  Some recent road widening on Sutton Court Road at Chiswick Station is a case in point.  Also, many of the beneficiaries of the scheme, the bus passengers and cyclists from further afield, who were not individually consulted (due to practical difficulties in doing so), obviously therefore did not respond and were not reflected in the report.  The Area Committee discussed this scheme on at least two occasions and carefully considered all the evidence before making its decision.  Traffic queues often extend back as far as Syon Lane and sometimes as far back as Busch Corner.  The bus lane will start immediately east of Syon Lane and will provide priority to buses from that point onwards.  A shorter bus lane would not provide benefits to buses stuck in a longer queue, and would not therefore be so effective in improving bus service reliability in variable traffic conditions, as noted in my previous posting.While the carriageway is being widened, its portioning into three traffic lanes plus a cycle lane, with different colours on the bus and cycle lanes, will visually narrow the carriageway for general traffic and is unlikely to increase vehicle speeds.  This has been proven elsewhere including on Staines Road between Martindale Road and Wellington Road where a long bus lane was installed in recent times.

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Having just caught up with this thread I thought a brief response would be of interest:Most of the answers can be found in the report available on the LB Hounslow website for the IBAC meeting of 14 December -Tim Henderson has posted the link.This scheme, as with all bus priority schemes, aims to improve the speed and reliability of the bus services.  The reliability bit is particularly important here - while traffic queues do not necessarily extend back to Syon Lane every day, when they do, it means delays to buses, affecting the reliability of the service and causing bunching of buses.  In extreme cases, the bus’s next trip may need to be cancelled, leaving bus passengers standing and complaining all along the route.The need to increase the efficiency and attractiveness of the bus service and encourage more people to use it should be self-explanatory…The scheme will also provide safe cycling conditions along this stretch.  I find it ironic that the Council is so often criticised for failing to provide adequate cycle lanes throughout the borough (a big ask, given the limited carriageway widths and the tradeoffs in terms of parking and loading space on the carriageway), yet when a system is designed to fully address this issue it is criticised, even by some of the same people who post messages about poor cycle facilities.Incidentally Tim, yes, we have modified the scheme to achieve 1.5m advisory cycle lanes, following a successful negotiation with TfL for the additional funds for this incremental increase in carriageway width (formerly we didn’t intend to widen at all west of Rowan Road.)  However, 1.2m cycle lanes are not “illegal” and have been used to very good effect in Chiswick where the presence of large street trees right on the kerbline have prevented any carriageway widening.  Nonetheless, I am delighted that this scheme will bring us right up to “code” in this area.This is high cost scheme but the benefits of the widened carriageway for buses and cycles will be available for decades.  The cost-benefit analysis (demanded by TfL before they would fund the scheme) showed a very good rate of return in terms of reduction in delays for bus passengers.  The immediate effect on private car users is minimal, as no traffic lanes are being removed - the main effect of course is that the buses will come to the front of the queue on the approach to Commerce Road.I am aware that both the Commerce Road and (especially) the Tallow Road signalised junctions are causing delays and I have raised this with TfL as there may be an opportunity for improvement, especially if false detection of vehicles on the side reads is occurring.  However, please bear in mind that while any single set of poorly functioning lights can cause delays along a whole stretch of road, complete elimination of delays at any junction will simply result in longer queues at the next junction.Have a happy weekend.Chris Calvi-FreemanHead of TransportLondon Borough of Hounslow

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6658d

John Connelly wrote:-'The biggest problem councillors face when being asked to agree TFL schemes such as bus lanes is that Hounslow officers give the impression the money available is free and, yes, if pushed they will argue that if it is not spent (or wasted) in Hounslow it will go elsewhere in London.'John - I understand you are a Councillor and you clearly understand that TFL money is public money so it's not clear to me how any officer could persuade you or other Councillors that this is 'free' money. Also, if the money is not spent in Hounslow, then presumably TFL will allocate to another Borough - so surely the officer is factually correct? ...'When members discussed a 20 MPH scheme in Hounslow we were told the cul de sacs must have humps as the rules stated that every road covered by the scheme must have them. How did we avoid this waste? Exempt the cul de sacs from the scheme. The saving made was in excess of £10,000. YOUR MONEY.'Several years ago, on the outskirts of Leeds, when calling to visit a friend, I happened on an accident that had just occurred and before the ambulance and Police arrived. A young girl had been hit by a van. Her mother was already with her and luckily the professionals quickly arrived and she was taken off in an ambulance. Speaking to my friend around a week later, I was told that she had suffered serious brain damage and was extremely unlikely to recover fully. She has not. The van driver was not charged as the Police investigations had suggested that he had not been driving over the speed limit. The road in question was a cul-de-sac. As I said in an earlier post, bring back the men with red flags to walk in front of cars in residential roads!  ...'I can understand how councillors are conned into spending TFL monies, as the local budgets available to the Area Committees are miniscule.'Why? - isn't road safety important to Hounslow Council?...' However, members need to realise that Council officers have a vested interest in ensuring the TFL money is spent as it pays their wages.'Why? - I thought Council's paid their staff from their revenue budgets?

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