Forum Topic

Paul Fisher · 4/29/2007 5:19:00 PM

new.BrentfordTW8.com Communtity Forum Topic posting

Alan and Ann Kean trying to make mgs of us all again?

Today the Keans invited selected guests to a film showing of Al Gores An Inconvient Truth at the Holiday Inn in Brentford.Now I do not recall the Keans ever being too concerned with any green issues whatsover etc in the past so perhaps we should applaud this new found campaign issue which with the right publicity!! can only help their desparate cause?I am still puzzled though how the Keans voted on the House of Commons Bill against increasing night flights from Heathrow,surely after Mrs Kean attended the HACAN demonstration pledging her support to anyone who would listen she would vote as she promised?What do you think she did? You got in one,she yet again shafted us all.This is why some of us today turned up to her private publicity seeking screening today to ask why and both Mr and Mrs Keen aka the expenses couple crept in early to avoid yet again answering any questions.

Paul Fisher ● 6610d63 Comments

It's a great pity that we have still not been able to hear the webcam audio of the recent Borough Council meeting when the issue with Mrs Keen MP was debated. Cllr Peter Thompson's speech had received a round of applause...but viewers didn't hear anything. The Council's webcam supplier was to post a message of apology here..but nothing seen yet.I'm amazed that Cllr Peter Thompson and some of his colleagues are not more outrageous with their words when they are revealing the truths about Mrs Keen's activities..and those of the previous Administration.Here is today's letter to the Editor of the BC&I Times...very calmly explained.

Jim Lawes ● 6604d

Phil"A while ago he told me that he had half a mind to offer himself for selection as a Labour candidate in Isleworth"If only he had "half a mind", judging by his comments on another thread. it would be a gross exageration to assume that he had IMHO. His problem is, that whatever the size he cannot "make it up"!

Account suspended ● 6605d

AndrewI totally disagree. In order to lose credibility one has to have some credibility to begin with. Councillor Adrian Lee recently referred to Alan at a Borough Council meeting as "the Commander Bill Boakes of Brentford". Like me, you are old enough to remember Bill Boakes. I would be happy to explain the reference for the benefit of those who aren't.Alan has stood for election in a number of council seats, and lost. Last year his party figured it would be a safe bet to put him up in Brentford. After all, it has always been a safe Labour ward and one in which he is well-known, as he has lived there for many years. He couldn't possibly fail to get elected there, could he???A while ago he told me that he had half a mind to offer himself for selection as a Labour candidate in Isleworth. I assured him that half a mind would be more than adequate for such a purpose. He has yet to carry out his threat, but I live in hope.Alan's destiny would appear to be a lifetime of service as an errand boy to Ann Keen. At the 2005 General Election count Mrs. Keen (for it is She) arrived at the count surrounded by a gang of rather scrawny-looking boys dressed in identical suits, who marched her in step from the car park to the candidates' podium. Poor Alan didn't even get a suit.Socially Alan is a really nice chap and, as Hughie Green used to say, I mean that most sincerely. I would stand him a beer any time, in fact I still owe him one. Sadly however he is also the most ritualistic and robotic parroter of the Official Party Line that I have come across in many a year.It would be fitting to conclude this tribute by paraphrasing Moutamin, the wise Emir who fought alongside El Cid: "What a noble subject, if he had only a noble Queen".

Phil Andrews ● 6605d

Has Allan Sheerins nothing to say on this thread? He questions the integrity/credibility of many on another thread, to make any comment on a local issue.Yet on this one, which affects us all environmentaly. he has nothing to say apparently.......why not? perhaps he has lost all credibility!

Account suspended ● 6605d

The leaflet would only be misleading if the Government's proposal to increase night flights really was just a back door way of giving the airline industry what it wanted. Why are their claims that a qualitative rather than a quantative approach to the issue could improve the noise environment for residents false?Similarly on the Aviation White Paper are we being misled by being given the impression that there will have to be substantial improvements in local air quality before the third runway proceeds? Could it be that this will be just an excuse to introduce a C-Charge around the airport and no other environmental measures will be taken or is there a genuine prospect that the quid pro quo for the third runway is an airport with a smaller carbon footprint, better air quality and less noise?

Justin Harris ● 6605d

JimAnn Keen says the leaflet which you have reproduced is "misleading", but doesn't tell us why.At the 2005 General Election she told us that references to her and her husband's morally unjustifiable £35k p.a. expense claim were "misleading", but refused to explain why at the time and still refuses to discuss them two years later.If you look at the comments from her bag-carrier Mr. Sheerins on another thread his response to questions on this subject is to scoff that "we won anyway", an attitude which says far more about the contempt in which he and his political masters hold their own constituents (or their "subjects", as I guess they would consider them) than I ever could.The leaflet is not misleading. It is factual in every respect. The reader is left to draw his/her own conclusions from it, for instance some may feel that Mrs. Keen had a good reason for voting in the way she did on the Civil Aviation Bill. But that she did vote against the amendment is a demonstrable fact and it would be detrimental to the future credibility of any poster on this forum to pretend otherwise. Like her threat to reserve her right to withdraw co-operation from the Council Executive for as long as I remain a member of it (also denied, despite the fact that it exists in black and white for anybody to see), it is a matter of historical record.

Phil Andrews ● 6606d

Supporting the White Paper seems to be a lot more damning than the night flights issue which doesn't seem to me particularly clear cut.The only rationale I could think of is that if the conditions attached to the building of the third runway were such that they reduced the impact on residents overall it could be possible to accept it. The White Paper does require environmental improvements before the runway is built. If the runway was being used to force BAA and the airlines to dramatically reduce emissions from the airport would there not be a case to accept it?

Mark Evans ● 6606d

So Mrs Keen MP, according to the front page news item, thinks that the leaflets being dished out ..outside the Holiday Inn ...were DELIBERATELY MISLEADING in their content!HERE IS THE LEAFLET:-----------------------------------------------------------MRS KEEN's SIDE SAID that the material distributed outside the climate change event last Sunday is deliberately misleading. A spokesperson for the local MP said "After many months of campaigning and lobbying throughout 2005/6 Ann was able to celebrate the first concession by any government in relation to Heathrow on 8th May 2006. The then Department for Transport Minister, Derek Twigg MP, announced that there would be no increase in night flights. This is guaranteed until 2012 when a consultation will be held. Ann lobbied Ministers right up until the debate, through a cabinet re-shuffle and with a new Secretary of State.SO: ""Ann was able to celebrate the first concession by any government in relation to Heathrow on 8th May 2006""From my understanding, the ""concession"" was not to further increase the number of flights from 5800 to 6400 each year between 11.30pm and 6am.The plan had been to increase the average daily number from 16 to 18. So by not increasing night flights was a concession !!!!It's only in the last couple of weeks it has been revealed that Airlines can get fines for breaking sound limits in this early morning period. Is this information that should have been available before so that Monitoring groups are aware?Aren't the Airport Unions wanting Heathrow to carry on expanding?. Isn't Mrs Keen in the pay of one of these Unions? Does Mr Keen get free flights from some of these airlines in his capacity of being on an Aviation Committee?More questions need to be asked..to ensure that we are NOT being hookwinked.

Jim Lawes ● 6606d

Some of us are still licking our wounds after the T5 enquiry (we are that old) and were disappointed that the Keens came out as supporters of that expansion and increase in flight numbers........However, I am pleased for the support they give against the third runway - but fear further promotion from Gordon may further limit Ann's ability to protest on behalf of her constituents.

Tim Henderson ● 6606d

Response to Kevin Lynch You can use the argument that 'if we don't expand Heathrow there will just be expansion elesewhere' about anything. Eg no point in trying to stop criminmals breaking into a house because they will just go and break in somewhere else. Sorry, but climage change is a far bigger issue than night noise. Of course Heathrow only produces a very small proportion of all the world's emissions from all sources. This is true for every source and using that argument, you can say no action should be taken on any source. The Isle of Wight's emmisions are small compared with the whole world, so does that mean they are absolved from taking action?

Nic Ferriday ● 6606d

Ann Keen voted for the aviation White Paper, which has as its lynchpin a third runway at Heathrow. Actions, such as as voting for Heathrow expansion, speak louder than a thousand words soothing words to residents.

Nic Ferriday ● 6606d

A bit of quick research on the web yields no evidence that Ann Keen supports the expansion of Heathrow. In fact most of the relevant items have her speaking out against expansion especially the third runway. Once again there seems to be an assertion made about her views which is unsupported by any other evidence. She may be insincere in what she says, ineffective in campaigning but I can't see how she can be accused of actively wanted the airport to grow when all her public statements seem to suggest otherwise.The closest I can find to anything that could be construed as such is a rather rambling statement in parliament from her husband which more or less said that the pragmatic approach was to accept that there would growth in traffic at the airport but that further expansion in facilities should be resisted. Is anybody actually suggesting a freeze or reduction in the number of flights from Heathrow and if not how exactly does your position differ from that of the Keens?

Justin Harris ● 6607d

"It is noise that needs to be produced particularly at unsocial hours."Before anybody tries to take an ASBO out against me I meant reduced not produced!

Andy Jones ● 6607d

Do the flightpaths go over Covent Garden?

Paul Fisher ● 6607d

Expansion of Heathrow won't massively increase the emission of greenhouse gases. If expansion was stopped then the flights would just move elsewhere. Also Heathrow contributes a tiny proportion of global greenhouse gas emissions so they won't be massively increased by more flights at Heathrow.The most important argument against expansion of Heathrow is a quality of life one not a climate change one. It is noise that needs to be produced particularly at unsocial hours.

Andy Jones ● 6607d

It's worse than this! Ann Keen's meeting was about climate change, yet Ann Keen supports Heathrow expansion which will massively increase emission of climate-changing greenhouse gases. Heathrow aircraft already emit some 14 million tonnes of carbon dioxide (CO2) every year.

Nic Ferriday ● 6607d

"The accusation that they 'support' night flights seems to me rather flimsy. No credible argument has been advanced here against the view that a qualitative improvement in night flights might justify a numerical increase."I appreciate what you are getting at, but the concern has to be what I will describe as 'drift'. Give an inch they'll take a mile. Time after time we have seem promises from BAA/gov't on expansion, which they have then broken, exploiting every available loophole."If neither side of the political divide is going to attend each other's meeting it is difficult to see how a properly co-ordinated approach can develop."Aside from co-ordination at the moment at a parliamentary level there are real differences between the parties national positions - I would be delighted to take Ann Keen on in debate. As it happens she didnt turn up at ANY of the public hustings at the last general election....As for cross-party campaigning, Cllr Cadbury (Lab), Cllr Reid (Con) and I meet up every six months or so to liaise on the continued cross-party campaign against Heathrow, which Cllr Cadbury (to her credit) initiated when she was part of the previous administration. On a practical level this means that we all signed off and support the recently launched "No- we love Hounslow" campaign ...and we now all three receive weekly briefings from the council's lobbyists. This means we are all equipped to lobby key MPs/ members of the House of Lords at party conferences for example. Given this local cross-party campaign (also co-ordinated now between boroughs) and the impact of Heathrow expansion locally Ann Keen's vote with the gov't on this in my view constituted a failure to represent her consituents. Surely she could have asked her gov't colleagues to cut her some slack and record her opposition to changes in night flight controls? She has rebelled once before!Andrew

Andrew Dakers ● 6608d

"If neither side of the political divide is going to attend each other's meeting it is difficult to see how a properly co-ordinated approach can develop."I wholeheartedly agree, but how does one attend if one is denied entry? This is why precisely Councillor Dakers' forced exclusion from the event is about so much more than "tit for tat", it is essential to achieving a proper understanding of the true nature of the problem. How much of a debate can be had by preaching to a select audience and then limiting the number of questions to five?

Phil Andrews ● 6608d

I don't really see understand how I have shot down my own argument but the debate on this thread is not really about the issues of global warming and night flights but the alleged hypocrisy of the local MP on both. To me this is a blind alley for all concerned.It would be preferable for us to have an MP like John McDonnell who has effectively made campaigning against the growth of Heathrow his thing but just because the Keens don't measure up to him and seem to prefer photo opps to substantive measures to advance the campaign doesn't render them useless. The accusation that they 'support' night flights seems to me rather flimsy. No credible argument has been advanced here against the view that a qualitative improvement in night flights might justify a numerical increase. Yet on this basis you and other choose to demonstrate outside an event designed to raise awareness of climate change. It is hard to see how this could be constructive in the campaign against the growth of Heathrow as the primary purpose was clearly to discredit the local MPs. If neither side of the political divide is going to attend each other's meeting it is difficult to see how a properly co-ordinated approach can develop.

Justin Harris ● 6608d

JustinWith respect I think you have shot down your own argument very successfully. The expansion of Heathrow is only part of the wider debate about global warming (although locally a very significant part). And yet here we are on post number 45 of a lively debate about Heathrow as a result of the demonstration and the issues which surrounded and which led up to it. How much of this interest do you think would have been generated had the meeting passed off without controversy, save for the obligatory photo op for Ann in next week's local paper?Speaking for myself I have become a reluctant participant in an exchange which you describe as "tit for tat" - I believe in consensus and working together, it is after all what we were all elected to do. However on this occasion I would not agree that the campaign to highlight the issues surrounding Heathrow expansion have suffered as a result, quite the opposite in fact.Hounslow Council has a proud record of lobbying against airport expansion, a record which began under the old administration and which has continued under the new one. One could more credibly argue that the government has seen us a soft touch because we have an MP who quite openly puts the Party Line and personal advancement before principle. However, my own honest view is that Heathrow simply means more economically than the other airports to which you refer and that this would explain the government's more entrenched position.

Phil Andrews ● 6608d

It is something of a shame that the very very important issue of Heathrow and climate change has become buried under this tit for tat politicking about who can attend what meeting. How many more terminals will be built at Heathrow before local politicians start to recognise that a genuinely cross party approach is the only way to effectively combat Heathrow's expansion.Although Ann Keen is no John McDonnell in terms of her efforts to campaign against Heathrow expansion it doesn't seem that clear cut to me that she is actively supporting its expansion. My understanding of the night flights vote was that the Government's position was that there could be some leeway on the number of night flights if qualitative improvements were made i.e. if planes were smaller and quieter. By limiting just the number you ensure that the biggest and noisiest planes are the ones that arrive earlier in the morning.There may be a degree of suspicion about whether concessions about the number of flights would lead to an improvement in the quality of life for local people but it appears to me that Ann Keen's opponents have leapt to the conclusion that it won't without really examining or understanding the argument because the simplistic notion that she favours increasing night flights serves their purpose.The question of night flights is a noise issue not a global warming one and it is hard to see how it got tangled up in this particular debate but I don't believe any local politician really wants to see more early morning disruption or more expansion of Heathrow. The Government clearly see West London as a bit of a soft touch as they have pulled out of lots of airport expansion schemes elsewhere but have pressed on with Heathrow. Could this be that they recognise that local elected representatives are more interested in point scoring against each other than effectively campaigning against the growth of Heathrow?

Justin Harris ● 6608d

"My impression of the previous Labour run administration was that they did not want to be seen to want to cooperate – for whatever reasons I do not know but the balance within the new Council occurs to me is a much more inspiring one now, and gives new hope to proper representation. You used the term ‘exciting consensus politics’ and the thing which strikes me is that a year on things appear to be starting to happen and/or are positive rather than sliding back into more of the same following a win, which seemed to happen in the past."I like to think you are right about this Sarah. What I was alluding to is that New Labour's aloofness is not just an inevitable consequence of an unjustified superiority complex. It is also a conscious political tactic to emphasise the alleged "sameness" of its various opponents and to stress by implication that it provides the only real alternative to a consensus which the spin machine depicts as being essentially conservative in nature.My point was that in so doing New Labour is seemingly oblivious to that which truly makes it "different" to the rest of us - i.e. a lack of any kind of ethical basis for its thoughts and deeds. I do not share its followers' apparent confidence that the electorate lacks the intelligence and sophistication to pick this up.

Phil Andrews ● 6608d

LOL.

Phil Andrews ● 6608d

Photogenarian maybe?

Helen Fogarth ● 6608d

I'm not sure about a promise, but the government did use emergency wartime powers to purchase what had henceforth been an area of farmland. Needless to say it was never returned.I doubt whether Jim would appreciate being referred to as an octogenarian btw. Sexagenarian, I think you'll find...

Phil Andrews ● 6608d

I remember reading the history of Heathrow many years ago please correct me if I am wrong.I believe that sometime during the war 39-45 the government bought the land and built an airport so flights to and from the theatre of war could use it for the transport of materials with the promise that they would not build a commercial airport after the war but would restore it to farm land, is this right if so they the government told the electorate lies in those days as well. Jim you might be able to dig something up on this, I know I have gone off the thread a bit but this might be a bit more interesting? We all know that anybody in power has their noses in the trough of cash that we work hard to pay into any Council or Government with a few exeptions.

Helen Fogarth ● 6608d

"I was wondering if this is actually the way in which our politics works once somebody is in post and how the post of MP has evolved without any input from the electorate as to how we would want/expect our MPs to do their job."A really interesting point you raise at the end there Sarah (not that your other points aren't also valid!).Did you know there is an attempt at a job description/ skills framework for councillors? See http://www.idea.gov.uk/idk/aio/5290212I often wonder what the equivalent would look like for an MP..... probably quite a lot of crossover.Andrew

Andrew Dakers ● 6608d

PhilI didn’t realise that Cllr Andrew Dakers had organised a screening of this film, and it is interesting and reassuring that the invitations were handled in this fair way. Quite a lot of politics appears to be run as a complete mystery to the ordinary observer, and things taken at face value are often clearly stage managed to anyone ‘in the know’. My experience and background for many years was of being given people to work with who came with stereotypes; gossip or hidden agendas always painted behind their back and always untrue. I am well used to working with the face value and establishing information and facts from there and I am only touching the tip of what goes on in the political world. Nevertheless it is proving interesting and it was also very nice to see you and your fellow demonstrators yesterday.I wouldn’t say that anyone graced me with an appearance – but I am pleased that I have been able to clearly demonstrate the issues (and some of my neighbours have repeated them to visitors as well) which should have been nipped in the bud a long time ago – and saved us all a fortune in public money and health issues from falls.I am very pleased to have shown a number of people, including your good self, the destruction of community property attached to development work around here. The issues demonstrated are not exclusive to my area – but show in a nutshell what is happening to the pedestrian’s environment across the Borough and further afield. In conversation on a ramble a resident of Kew, telling me a story said ‘and the next day a skip arrived and we all know the damage to the pavement once that happens’.My impression of the previous Labour run administration was that they did not want to be seen to want to cooperate – for whatever reasons I do not know but the balance within the new Council occurs to me is a much more inspiring one now, and gives new hope to proper representation. You used the term ‘exciting consensus politics’ and the thing which strikes me is that a year on things appear to be starting to happen and/or are positive rather than sliding back into more of the same following a win, which seemed to happen in the past.My point about why our MP wouldn’t stop and talk to you or answer questions about her voting or opinion of Heathrow is that I don’t know why this is, and I was wondering if this is actually the way in which our politics works once somebody is in post and how the post of MP has evolved without any input from the electorate as to how we would want/expect our MPs to do their job.

Sarah Felstead ● 6608d

John,Are you going to refuse to accept any increase if it arrives?

John Davies ● 6609d

The thing is Jim who could have foreseen the day when everyone would take flying all over the world for granted? I never dreamed I would jet off to Oz, the U.S. and different places in Europe. I find it hard to believe that Richard Branson really thinks space travel will be a reality - but I'm sure it will, and our descendants will take that for granted too. When I think we've seen video players come and now go in the space of what? - 20 odd years, it reminds us of the speed at which modern technology moves.

Vanessa Smith ● 6609d

Helen,Fair point about Heathrow's nearness.But some of us were here in the Borough BEFORE Heathrow was opened. In Chiswick the only aircraft we really saw were the formation of fighter planes flying high overhead on their way to bomb Germany!Then in 1943,1944,and 1945 the Germans aircraft criss-crossed the Brentford and Chiswick skies,,dropping bombs on us! Then came Heathrow!There was once talk of having the main London Airport built out in the Channel..on the Maplin Sands. Pity it didn't happen in many ways. Heathrow will just grow and grow. Think of all the hard work that has been done by protesters in the past. Total affect..almost nil.

Jim Lawes ● 6609d

""Will this tit for tat continue ad nauseum or will Hounslow politics continue to be dominated by the kindergarten""Let's hope it does continue, I say. There's a whiff of superiority in John's words about local politics being dominated "by the kindergarten". Standing on the touchline watching..as many of us do...and learning what has been going on in recent years...the more action, responses and investigative research the better. Then we can watch, listen, learn, and participate. Hounslow's politics has in the past been a mystery to many. But today, with these Community Forums,(and the webcams!!) we are learning to throw our dummies away, climb over the playpen..and get stuck into the uncovering the tripe that has been allowed to dominate for so long.You should be guiding us John..whether you be a Scottish incomer or not...not deriding our efforts!You're a nice man. Now,who of the Hounslow Councillors in the past abused the system?

Jim Lawes ● 6609d

Up to a point Helen you are right, however, that doesn't give BAA or any airline the right to march willy-nilly all over the place and keep expanding. Most of us have learned to live with the planes and I have to say a lot of us would by hypocrites if we didn't admit how handy Heathrow's nearness is when we want to go away. In the same way living near the RFU is the very like that - it is a national stadium that has been in the area - albeit not this size - long before most of the residential accomodation was built. To be fair the RFU have grasped the principal that they are part of the community and have done a lot of work to ameliorate the effects of large crowds, you can learn to live with all these things if you don't expect Utopia. It's all a question of reality and compromise.

Vanessa Smith ● 6609d

A few weeks ago it was Labour protesting at Mrs Keen being silenced at a council event in Brentford. Now the other side complain about Ms Keen excluding them from her event. Will this tit for tat continue ad nauseum or will Hounslow politics continue to be dominated by the kindergarten?Incidentally, good news for some Hounslow residents. I hear the Council Executive, having cast their envious eyes at our MP's vast unearned income, are soon to agree to inflation busting increases of their own - financed in part by the newly introduced charges to disabled people attending day centres.

John Connelly ● 6609d

Am I not right in thinking that Heathrow was here before many of the residents were even born, that being the case if you don't like the aircraft coming in and out of the airport move away, you must of known there was one near Hounslow the clue was in the big silver thing in the sky coming in at a rate of knots and making a lot of noise. Funny how people don't want something near them after they move into an area buy the house wait a few months then start wingeing on about a thing that has been around for many years and then the councilors will act on it to keep your votes.

Helen Fogarth ● 6609d

From Mrs Keen MP's website the above pictures show the key visitors to the previous event at the Holiday Inn on 19th April. Are they the same Hounslow Central Ward councillors in attendance?

Jim Lawes ● 6609d

You are correct Jim,that was indeed Parmod Kad MBE.

Paul Fisher ● 6609d

My e-mail in-tray is busy with exchanges about this thread and several others...and I like to help upload pictures, maps, press releases, and newsletters if that's what some of our readers ask.I read from the ICG Press Release that: ""Also present at the demonstration was a delegation of residents from Cranford, led by former Labour councillor Parmod Kad MBE. Members of Friends of the Earth managed to attend the event."-------------------------------------------I gather that Parmod Kad MBE, leader of the Cranford delegation: said: "Every time I see an aeroplane flying over Cranford in the middle of the night disturbing our sleep and all day discharging noise and air pollution over Cranford, and every time I see a young child or elderly person coughing with asthma due to air pollution in Cranford, I pray to God in desperation for a better elected political representatives for Cranford and Hounslow who cared to understand our difficulties. Lack of representation of Cranford councillors at this event exhibits their lack of commitment to the environment". I believe it was this gentleman..Parmod Kad MBE... who was seen in the previous picture welcoming two Labour Councillors to the meeting..to which he himself was not invited!! (Is that really so?)END

Jim Lawes ● 6609d

Well, thank you for doing a political turn on me - Cllr Phil - which may serve to answer my question. The questions was (albeit on two postings)"- is it a political way of being or something else?""... as in 'everyone else' would do this as well?"

Sarah Felstead ● 6609d

SarahIt simply isn't correct to say that "everybody else would do this as well". When Councillor Dakers organised the original screening of this film invitations were sent out cross-party, and my recollection is that the Leader and Deputy Leader of the Labour Group were present. He also invited Councillor Barbara Reid and myself, both of us his political opponents, to share the platform with him afterwards (I believe the Labour delegation had left by this time).I am aware that Mrs. Keen graced you with her presence on a tour of your neighbourhood and I've no doubt she was civil and friendly (why wouldn't she be?), however I would submit that she and her party have placed themselves outside of the new, and in my opinion exciting consensus politics which is taking form in Hounslow.This is of course their choice and their right, and it is as much about tactics as it is about bitterness and control-freakery, but I believe it to be a misguided strategy and one which will come to rebound heavily on them over the next few years.Time will tell, of course, and I could be wrong. But please don't be suggesting that the rest of us conduct our political buisness on the same ethical level as New Labour because the facts simply don't support such a suggestion.It was nice to see you again yesterday anyway Sarah. Hope you gained something from the event.

Phil Andrews ● 6609d

Two Hounslow Central Ward councillors (New Labour I gather) are greeted on arrival at the Holiday Inn on Sunday morning.Sarah:Yes, amazing isn't it, to hear that Cllr Dakers had difficulty in gaining entry.

Jim Lawes ● 6609d

Great Photos i am so sorry i couldn't make it i wish i could off but at least the new Chair and V.C of IVYTAG was there.Can you post those photos on our forum please Cllr Andrews or Fisher?Thanks and Well Done to All

Simon Anderson ● 6609d

" - is it a political way of being or something else?"... as in 'everyone else' would do this as well?

Sarah Felstead ● 6609d

I was aware of talk about no seating available at the screening - but there were a couple of free seats dotted around and we could easily have squeezed up.I suspect Ann Keen is more than capable of standing and discussing the issues being raised by the group outside the meeting and I do not know why or what stopped this from happening - is it a political way of being or something else?This is all new to me, and forgive me, if I say I am enjoying my insight; reserving the right to decide what I think at the end of it all.

Sarah Felstead ● 6609d

I wonder why they waited until Cllr Dakers entered the building to tell him rather then someone popping outside to let him know during the hour or so he was outside?Its a great shame this happened because Cllr Dakers is extremely well respected for his knowledge and passion for green issues and would I am sure have made a very valued contribution to the discussions at this event.

Paul Fisher ● 6609d

Apparently Councillor Dakers was refused entry on the rather improbable grounds that there were "no chairs". Quite how the organisers would have coped had the other 350+ invitees turned up remains something of a mystery.His own story can be read by following the link below:http://hounslowlibdems.org.uk/news/263.html

Phil Andrews ● 6609d

...actually, Jim .. it was a very hard working local Councillor - Andrew Dakers, who I didn't recognise in his sunglasses. I had just missed their greeting of Ian Pearson. Andrew said he wasn't sure if he would be allowed in, but he had his invitation and was going to try. Are you saying that Andrew was tipped into the canal when he tried to gain entry? tsk tsk!

Sarah Felstead ● 6609d

I'm amazed to read tonight that Cllr Dakers was banned entry into the meeting ..even though he had an invitation! Is that so?Sarah, the gentleman you saw in sunglasses was a hard working local Councillor..I think. Nothing to fear, he chairs the local Planning Meetings! Another picture is still locked inside my computer somewhere.

Jim Lawes ● 6609d

!!!!!

Phil Andrews ● 6609d

Oh well forget it, we'll put them upon our website anyway!

Phil Andrews ● 6609d

I was also very pleased to receive an invite to see the film and to hear the discussion around the issues. My son also came and there were a number of other youngsters he knew, so the audience appeared wide ranging.I didn’t get the chance to duck into the underground car park so I met the protest outside, head on and found them to be very friendly, well behaved, polite, and quite respectable really; not at all loud and disruptive (;-)). The man in the dark sunglasses was the only shifty looking one. I can’t scan and post the leaflet I was handed because my software is up the creek.There were exhibition stands for people to walk around and take leaflets/make contacts. I do love my leaflets and I took several newsletter type ones and a number of British Waterways ones. The representative from BW didn’t arrive (a BW rep on a stand in the heart of Brentford?) to man their stand so my son looked after their leaflets and had to field some pretty stiff questions about Government policy and the Waterways - good grief, he’s only 18 and didn’t know anything about the background to the stall ;-) ... he does now know, first hand, that there are some strong opinions linked to the topic. I need to get him to have a chat with Nigel, now. My impression of the questions was that it showed just what an emotive subject we were touching on. The idea was, I thought, to ask a question of the Minister but everyone had a long story to tell and the information they personally held was very important to them to say as an explanation to go with the question – so most were speeches in their own right. It meant that when the question had been identified, there was not much time left to get on with answering it or asking if there were any more! I doubt if any questions would be asked on this subject without a mini speech to go along with it, and that isn’t wrong as it really demonstrates the passion held by people. The Minister had left before the film was shown, Jim. I suppose Ann could have taken questions from the floor directed to her - you would have to ask her office why this wasn't offered.It looked to me like Ann was disappointed that they couldn’t move on to straight answers and more questions with the Minister. She did say several times that it is a good thing to write to her with any questions, and to fill in a questionnaire so she could read other questions. She said that if any were raised with her, she in turn would raise them with the Minister on our behalf. She was also freely circulating and talking to everyone and was still there in the exhibition area long after the film had finished. She also said that this is the beginning of a consultation process concerning the issues and she was very pleased to see representatives of Friends of the earth and appeared open to want a cooperation of ideas.The Minister was indeed Ian Pearson who gave a short talk before the questions session, then spent some time elaborating on a few areas touched on in the questions.I enjoyed the film but most of what was said, we have known about freely in this country for years through our public information releases and general reading, but there were up to date statistics and photographs which flavoured it nicely and many snippets put into perspective, or new. Al Gore’s film is well worth watching – although rumour amongst the rabble sitting near to me was that the Library services copy has been stolen – so somebody was trying to check the label on the DVD being used! ;-)I don’t know about it being too cosy – if the intention was to see the film and open doors for discussion then it was fine and the atmosphere appeared fine too, Jim. I would have like to hear some questions about Heathrow and other airport expansions; according to Ian Pearson’s web site he is opposed to the expansion of Wolverhampton Airport.I personally have a big issue with the whole usage of the skies above our head and the lack of real accountability there is to the people below the flight paths – and I really don’t believe the Government has got to grips with tackling that accountability (ditto Mogden).Photographs? … … Crumbs!I look forward to hear about Nicholas Stern’s promised visit.

Sarah Felstead ● 6609d

And some of you want her to continue to be our MP!There's something amiss. You're being taken for a ride!Five questions out of an audience of 400! How engaging is that?That's why I asked Sarah what was the atmosphere like. One of appreciation and admiration for the MP?..or something else?Paul: Good pictures.

Jim Lawes ● 6610d

Save the planet from who the little green men?

Helen Fogarth ● 6610d

Some pictures of those who tried to show the double standards of the Keens today.

Paul Fisher ● 6610d

I was privileged to get an invite (probably from being on Ann's awkward squad of constituents who moan about Heathrow aviation issues). And I suppose I am grateful for the opportunity to see Al Gore's film. I am afraid I sneaked past your protest placards, rode the bike into the underground car park and used the direct staircase into the Holiday Inn !Regarding questions, I was a bit disappointed in the time allowed for debate/comment and Ann's participation in it. (I'm afraid in ten years and two elections, I have still to hear how Ann speaks to a questioner at a public meeting !)Ian Pearson ? Junior Minister (?DEFRA?) for Climate Change talked for 10 mins and then invited questions. Five were taken in a block - implications for flooding in East Anglia/London ; wind turbines as a sop to energy consumption on the new Brentford GWQ offices; desirability of extending energy controls to aviation/shipping (applause from audience); shouldn't a balanced view of global warming be presented.....Ian then responded briefly in ten minutes and thanked us all for coming and then had to dash off before the film to go back to the West Midlands (by car so he could stop off at another four points on the way...). Ann said there would be no further questions after the film.It struck me as being a bit cosy - that the environmental groups are being asked to stir up their concerns to prove the mandate for government to act.It's a shame that so little action appears to have taken place in the last ten years (apart from removing manufacturing industry offshore and benefiting from energy generation from gas - wasn't it that Mr. Prescott who was going to have an integrated transport policy ?). And it was important that lots of photos were taken.Still, thanks to Ann for holding the event and showing the film. And one snippet I didn't know was that Nicholas Stern grew up in Brentford and his family were raised here. He has promised Ann to return for another event when his secondment as roving climate expert ends and he can get his desk back at the Treasury.

Tim Henderson ● 6610d

No invite for me today I`m afraid Jim, though I was lucky enough to see the film a few months ago at the Watermans Centre along with many other Cllrs,but the Keens declined to attend that time!!

Paul Fisher ● 6610d

Well, Jim – as this was my second visit to the Holiday Inn at Brentford Lock – I can honestly say that the hotel rooms available for conferences are lovely, with smashing views of the lock outside. Last time (evening) the air conditioning was on and it was quite refreshing (some air conditioning just does not work, does it?) and this time there were a few doors slid open to take in the cooler breeze from the water. The constituency office staff – led by Simeon - had worked their socks off both times and the food supplied by the Hotel and their friendly Staff on the first visit was a treat – I am sure I saw a few doggy bags being tucked away as the hotel staff filled up the buffet again. This time there was plenty of jugs of ice cold water on hand and access to the Bar for anything else one might need.:-)

Sarah Felstead ● 6610d

SarahWas it an agreeable meeting..I mean was there a very pleasant atmosphere pervading the meeting? My antenna picked up something untoward..so I stayed in bed!..not that I had been invited.Some pictures and a report of the meeting would be most valable.

Jim Lawes ● 6610d

... sigh ... :-)

Sarah Felstead ● 6610d

As our top man on the Isleworth and Brentford Area Committee, Paul, do you mean to say that you were not invited along to this morning's meeting..on your patch!!How unfriendly!

Jim Lawes ● 6610d