Forum Topic

Hounslow Sport & recreation at the bottom of the scrap heap

Not content with losing us CPA scores faster than Posh Spice spends in a Dolce & Gabanna shop our ICG/Tory authority has ensured we are again on the bottom of the scrap heap when it coms to sport & recreation facilities planning. Last night's report on London Tonight showed Hounslow to be 32nd out of the 33 London Boroughs in respect of providing new and imporved facilties in line with the legacy target for london towards 2012. It is bad enough we came fifth from bottom in terms of participation in sport, it is bad enough that our CPA is falling under ICG/Tory control, but its a disgrace that they are doing NOTHING to tackle the poor performance of this borough.I don't wonder why when Phil Andrews spends all his time on this forum obsessing about Labour, attacking anyone who dares criticise him and generally doing nothing very much at all as an elected member.

Conal Stewart ● 6595d13 Comments

"How much would have been needed both in terms of percentage rise in Council Tax and total amount in pounds?"Its an extremely valid and thought provoking question to which I wish I had an immediate answer!  The simple answer is no one really knows.  The Lib Dem group opposed the £200k of cuts in funding to CIP this year which we felt was the wrong direction of travel and not conducive to helping the financial recovery of CIP (given their substantial debt).This whole service area will go out to tender in the next year or so, although there is political disagreement as to when this should happen (I support the cross party scrutiny view that CIP needs to be given time to reform).  The political debate will therefore move on to what the contract spec should look like ...this will then shape what the market offers the council ...and then, I assume, the council will either select the best value for money offer(s).  If it is felt what was originally desired in the spec is too expensive the administration might decide to reduce the requirements and therefore the new contract cost.It is worth noting that other councils going through this process recently have experienced substantial increases in costs (particularly in parks), and the scrutiny panel felt CIP was delivering pretty good value (in parks) given the low spend.  This doesnt mean we dont need to spend more if we want improved green spaces.Hope that clarifies matters, although I appreciate it doesnt answer your questions directly!Andrew

Andrew Dakers ● 6584d

Andrew "A slight increase in council tax would have been justified in our view to start properly funding the parks, pools and library service."I think you have already been asked by somone else, but can you expand on this, and have you done a costing on it? If so what would the increase likely to be? 

Account suspended ● 6584d

"A slight increase in council tax would have been justified in our view to start properly funding the parks, pools and library service. "How much would have been needed both in terms of percentage rise in Council Tax and total amount in pounds?

Mike Hardacre ● 6585d

The CIP organisation seemed to the scrutiny panel to be operating fairly efficiently.  The reality is that the organisation has been financially squeezed by the council for years, with funding cuts every 12 months.  Politically this is because priority has been given to other spending areas.This is one of the reasons why the Lib Dem group didnt support this year's budget (see http://www.hounslowlibdems.org.uk/news/000247.html).  A slight increase in council tax would have been justified in our view to start properly funding the parks, pools and library service.  In some respects the needs are greater in Hounslow than many other boroughs as we have so much green space.Andrew

Andrew Dakers ● 6590d

My goodness Andrew, the report indicates some real challenges. It sounds like the main ones are the shortcomings in the organisation of CiP, its financial viability, and its governance. I note an absence of an arts strategy by LBH. Is the reason for the lower funding compared to other boroughs just that the desired services can be achieved more efficiently, or have we a different need/priority in Hounslow?

Duncan Walker ● 6590d

If you want to get a detailed brief on culture and leisure in Hounslow I would suggest you read the recently released scrutiny report:http://213.210.33.3/mgConvert2PDF.asp?ID=26985&J=3Andrew

Andrew Dakers ● 6591d

ConalFor those of us who don't have an understanding of the rating system, please elucidate by answering (2nd request!} the questions below.......I am really interested........honest!  Are you seriously suggesting that this situation has developed in just one year, how many places have we dropped during this time? Where  were we during the 35 misruled years of the Labour Group.

Account suspended ● 6592d

ConalLast night's report on London Tonight showed Hounslow to be 32nd out of the 33 London Boroughs in respect of providing new and imporved facilties in line with the legacy target for london towards 2012. I have asked questions of you before without an answer, but I will try again.........here goesAre you seriously suggesting that this situation has developed in just one year, how many places have we dropped during this time? Where  were we during the 35 misruled years of the Labour Group. I don't recall that they were that great do you, one would have thought that after this length of time in power, we would have been at least in the top ten in 2005!As regards the CPA, where have we lost out exactly, according to the website the 3 stars were retained, even though the criteria was more demanding......have we been reassesed since Dec 2005?, if not I fail to see how you have reached the conclusion that the rating has gone down. Perhaps you will explain? I believe that Cllr.Andrews as the lead member of his group must, by default work very hard. Do you believe that he should not have the right to free time,and also to come on to this forum and defend himself?

Account suspended ● 6594d

I say, Conal - you obviously have great passion for this topic and I took it that you were trying to stir some of Jim's porridge as pugnaciously and as flippantly as some others have been known to post.I think you will find that Jim is trying to honestly engage you in this subject as he will probably have some opinions to contribute.Have you any idea of what needs to be looked at and what could be done to work towards improving the situation?  Maybe somebody with some clout is listening or maybe others with influencing powers might use the information effectively as they manage the Borough?I couldn't find much about CIP in contact terms and who they are how they work and which Cllr is involved when I had some suggestions about recreation centre membership.By the way - are you late back from the Marathon, and is that why you have been absent until now? ... you can tell me ... :-)TW8 poster makes a Marathon of the Marathon!  ...  ;-)  ... sorry, couldn't resist!

Sarah Felstead ● 6595d

ConalAs I've said before, I find your postings insulting and deplorable. There seems to be a pugnacious and mental streak in you..which is incompatible with fair play on this Forum.You failed to answer any of my enquiring questions on this same subject when you barged into TW8.com with an abusive headline previously. You dropped a stink bomb and then ran off.  What type of people do that?You make no effort to give examples of the kind of non-activity that loses Hounslow's points. This subject may not be Cllr Andrews specialist responsiblity..and to suggest that he is idle..as you infer..is just plain stupid.My old Football Club in Chiswick, Old Meadonians, run 12 teams including vets..and the first X1 are London Champions for the fifth consecutive year. How many points is that worth.The Gunnersbury Park Changing Rooms were burned down by scallywags (no doubt) so that there are restrictions on the number of sportsmen who can play there at weekends.There must be 100 self-sufficient sports clubs in the Borough who may not even register on your famous points system.I disagree with several of Cllr Andrews opinions..but I wholeheartedly run to his support when he is on the end of an assault like this from you.Why don't you write to Cllr Adrian Lee..the gentleman on the Council involved?

Jim Lawes ● 6595d

ConalBehind all the raging and fuming you make a reasonable point.  The electorate will judge us in 2010 on our performance over the previous four years.  If we fail, it will be our fault and nobody else's.  On that I give you my promise.But any administration, national or local, of whatever political complexion, needs to be given the opporunity to set out its table and make its mark.  That is all I have asked of you.You seem to have become my own personal internet stalker and the tone of some of your onslaughts fills me with concern.  Have you ever considered taking an anger management course?

Phil Andrews ● 6595d

I keep going away and doing some work, you know what that is Phil?  I am sure you have heard of it. Work, as in gainful employment for about forty hours a week?  I realise it is an alien concept to you.  I have to keep earning more money to pay my council tax in order for to you to spend large amount of time on here talking utter nonsense and attacking Labour in your usual obsessive manner. Shame you don't seem to work Phil. You are always on here doing NO WORK AT ALL. I have a problem with that fact, I don't know why others do not.And there is no falsehood here, the CPA rating is assessed over a six months period and the assessment is partly an indication of your administrations performance. Stop telling porkies to people just because you are failing to make any impact a year on, you cannot blame it all on Labour.  There is no mistake here, I am quite well aware that the culture assessment of this borough is partly based on post 2006 election survey work. The survey is completed is NOT a snap shot at a single moment in time, several methods are used in assessment no matter what falsehoods you pedal. Sport England and Play England inform aspects of that survey.  I don't think you even realise how CPA is completed. I work with CPA scores Phil, and I run assessments on borough performance on sport and recreation services as part of the Culture CPA ratings. Considering the cuts you and your bedfellows have made to other areas of service that impact upon the Culture score I can only dread just how bad things will be in the 2008 CPA scores.  I know fine well just how bad Hounslow is doing compared to ALL our neighbours when it comes to sport and recreation.And as usual the you fail to address the fact that again this borough is shown in a bad light because YOU ARE FAILING.  To blame the problem on Labour is plainly ridiclous. The drivers jonas report featured on last nights London tonight can in no way at all be blamed on the previous administration.  The survey was entirely carried out in the last three months of 2006.  It places only Harrow below Hounslow.  And let me tell everyone, Harrow is by far one of the worst performers nationwide in most sport and recreation surveys.Several Sport England diagnostic tools indicate how useless Hounslow is on sport and recreation.  Active Places and Active people show just how bad it is here.  Active People shows us to be fifth from bottom and whilst particpation is not entirely the responsibility of the Local Authority there is  strong correlation between levels of particpation and poor local services.  The Active Places Survey in Hounslow largely took place in September and October 2006. The survey shows that Hounslow residents will use the services of neighbouring boroughs (particularly spelthorne and ealing because our own are so poor).  The Active Places survey and the Active People survey will have alrger informing role of CPA scores in 2008 and than in 2007.Here is another fact; our Local Authortity was the last authority in London that could be bothered to sign up as an Active Places Diagnostic user three months after the 32nd authority signed up. The reason? Not enough resources. Whose fault is that Phil?There is only so long you can keep blaming bad news on Hounslow's performance on Labour Phil.  You are beginning to sound like Tony Blair circa 1999.  High time you took some responsbility and pulled your finger out.I'm giving you fair warning Phil, we lost ground in 2007 from 2006. The cuts you have accepted on non-sport aspects of culture are sure to bite in 2008 and considering that the DJ report and SE surveys show increasing failings in sport and recreational services 2007/08 could prove to be your undoing and it would serve you right.  I wonder will you shrug your shoulders and continie to blame Ruth and her Labour colleagues then?You are a walking one-man advert to turn people back to Labour so keep talking Phil you are certainly influencing me to vote Labour at every opportunity to help ensure that you and your rabble of ICG people are not the king makers around here in due course. If it is all shirking responsibility and blaming Labour now, are you ever going to take responsibility for any failings of your administration?

Conal Stewart ● 6595d

ConalWelcome back my friend, I've missed you as I'm sure we all have.You keep going away for long periods and then returning to repeat the same silly and easily disprovable falsehood - that savings made in the 2007/08 budget which were first announced in January 2007 were responsible for a CPA rating which was awarded some months before.  Do you really believe that if you wait long enough before coming back users of this forum will forget that your mistake was pointed out to you the last time?To put it quite simply, where the council has performed badly we will attempt to put things right.  As we are only one year into a new administration it is unreasonable to expect us to have righted every wrong, but that is what we aim to do.  To imply that everything was hunky dory before the arrival of the new administration is dishonest.  Judge us at the end of our tenure by all means, but not at the beginning.As you seem to have all this information at your fingertips, will you tell us please where we were in this department in May 2006 and what period the rating you quote relates to?

Phil Andrews ● 6595d