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I absolutely agree with Margaret Hodge but why stop at housing?  What about all the other benefits we dish out to people from other countries that have not contributed to our taxes or NI?  Family allowance for instance is, as I understand it, paid to the mother of every child born in the UK.  This applies whether they have worked or contributed or not.  That alone must run into squillions of pounds.  Once they have the child they are then eligible for assistance with housing, with that comes income support and housing benefit etc., etc., the list goes on.  I saw a slot on the news last week about Slough Council insisting that the government step in to help them out because they have an "obligation" to deal with large numbers of Roma (presumably gypsies) aarriving from Romania and tipping up in Slough.  What have they contributed?  Why does Slough or anywhere else have an obligation to look after them?It is definitely about time the UK looked after its own and actually rewarded rather than penalised those that do work and contribute.  If anyone out there knows a country whether in or out of Europe where I can tip up and be housed and given some money to live on (as I will definitely be unemployed when I arrive) please let me know.  Also, as I am hurtling towards retirement age, is there any country I can go to and claim their pension or the equivalent in benefits?Whilst on my way to work the other morning I observed an elderly Indian lady attempting to use her free travel card at Earls Court Station.  It was too early and an underground worker was trying to explain to her that it was too early.  She clearly didn't speak any English as he had to revert to pointing at his watch and waving his hands (it was 7.30a.m.)  The thought struck me, she may well have been in this country many years but clearly hadn't bothered to learn the language in which case how had she worked and contributed?  Alternatively she had just arrived here.  Either way, she was presumably entitled to free travel during the proper times.  In Ireland they have free travel for the elderly but I am pretty sure that wouldn't apply to me if I were to decide to go and live there.  It seems to me that anyone can come here from wherever and at some point will qualify for some if not all the benefits this country has to offer.  I repeat, where can I go for reciprocal treatment.  I would prefer somewhere sunny and beautiful where English is spoken please.

Bernadette Paul ● 7110d

My opinion on the two families you quoted is that they should be allocated housing on the basis of need. They would already be ahead of any new arrivals to this country because of the waiting list system. Barking was mentioned because the Evening Standard did an investigation of how much social housing in the borough was allocated to immigrants. They only found one case of a three bedroom flat being given to a Zimbabwean family who had been resident in the country three years. How much of Hounslow's available social housing has been given to recently arrived immigrants? You will probably find the number is much much lower than you think.The problem here is not caused by immigration but lack of supply. You may be right to condemn the current Government but the roots of this problem go back to the ending of Council house building.It would be nice to have adequate accommodation for nurses, police officers and even junior doctors but if they are local then they have the option of staying in their family home. If not Brentford is a relatively expensive area so why should we provide them scarce subsidised housing when they could move somewhere cheaper. Giving a family an available unit houses three or more people whereas a giving it to a single person houses just one. I would love it if we had enough housing for cheap accommodation for every key worker but the fact is we don't therefore tough choices have to be made and families before single people seems like a no-brainer.

Justin Harris ● 7104d

"My opinion on the two families you quoted is that they should be allocated housing on the basis of need. They would already be ahead of any new arrivals to this country because of the waiting list system". Not a very well thought out answer, what I think you  really mean is that the newly arrived family, who have contributed nothing at all to the country, will get the housing based on the fact that they have one more child,(need, over riding "time waiting"). Where else in the world can this situation be found or even tolerated? Justin, face facts, wer'e mugs who are being mugged! .........what planet are you from, if you can't see that?If your solution for nurses, doctors, police, and porters ambulance drivers, paramedics, were to be implemented and they moved on, I hope you would not be mugged, seriously enough or have a serious accident to require the assistance of any of the aforementioned categories of people. Suggestions please for a)somewhere cheaper......where? b)the impact it would have on the local services if they heeded your advice? c)your solution for those who do not have a family home? Sleep rough on a park bench, in a cardboard box?..No, the root of the problem is not only the selling off of council housing, but successive governments, and particularly the present one, who have completely lost the plot on immigration and asylum, we don't even know how many are in the country, and illegals wander around the country with impunity, awaiting the next amnesty, with no chance of them ever being arrested. You don't say whether you are adequately housed.......again, are you? ........................................................."How much of Hounslow's available social housing has been given to recently arrived immigrants? You will probably find the number is much much lower than you think".I will endeavour to find out from the Council, but I doubt that I will get a straight answer......Data Protection? might try the Freedom of Information Act. I will let you know if I manage to get it. I hope the three "characters" who were on control orders and have absconded don't decide to come to Hounslow.It is alleged that they want to kill British servicemen, and I hope the local barracks are on full alert!!!

Account suspended ● 7103d

JustinYou seem to be selective /reluctant/unable to answer some of the questions that I have asked you. If as you said previously, public sector workers should move on, and you must have “thought it through” please answer the questions I asked of you previously as below.If your solution for nurses, doctors, police, porter’s, ambulance drivers, paramedics, were to be implemented and they moved on, I hope you would not be mugged, seriously enough or have a serious accident to require the assistance of any of the aforementioned categories of people. Suggestions please for a) Somewhere cheaper......where…….further north? b) The impact it would have on the local services if they heeded your advice?...close the services down?c) Your solution for those who do not have a family home? Sleep rough on a park bench, in a cardboard box?..........where?d) Who will, in your opinion will carry out the work for our local services, if those without affordable housing move on?  I doubt if the hijackers would want to know do you? too much like hard work!Meanwhile for the Afghan hijackers, where only one of them it is alleged  has found work, were also found the properties they live in  by agencies working for the Government’s National Asylum Support Service. “Sod” the nurses and others in the caring profession, seems to be your perception Justin, they cam move on and find there own roof over their heads. Meanwhile pensioners can be charged for their care, selling their homes in the process to pay for it. Never mind the fact that they have paid into the system all of their lives, so that scroats like these can live the life of Solomon. I love your sense of fair play Justin (not)  Since being let out of jail in May last year the gang have been given £102,000 to pay for rent and £42,336 in benefits.Alright for some eh?

Account suspended ● 7103d

Andrew, you have me pegged and now I recognise that I am just a selfish person living in my vast mansion who has dedicated myself to making sure that nurses and police officers don't get properly housed because of my looney left opinions. I am now totally converted to your point of view. However I have few concerns about how our new policy would work in practise.Firstly if we are to give priority to 'born and bred' how is this to be determined? If a child is locally born but his or her parents are not then would they be entitled to housing? What about a British citizen not born in this country? Does born and bred mean locally or nationally - would for instance British born people who have just moved here from other parts of the country be put ahead in the queue of non-British born people who have lived in Brentford for most of their lives?If we are going to deny Council housing to non-British born people does that mean you would wish the general obligation of Councils to house everybody? Are we prepared for families of rough sleepers around the borough? What would our reaction be when the first child dies in winter as a result of not being housed due to our policy. I presume you will say that people would not come to this country if they have nowhere to live but that isn't really a consideration for a genuine asylum seeker bringing his family to Britain to save their lives. You may doubt such people exist but I can assure you that they do.If we give priority to key workers in public services for Council housing how does this help the plight of local people on the waiting list? People would be attracted to work in the area by the subsidised housing and the chance to sell off the unit at a profit. Wouldn't this squeeze out more local people and reduce our stock even further? Wouldn't housing single people in these units be an inefficient use of scarce stock and ultimately result in more people being homeless?Any chance of a considered answer to these question rather than a rant?

Justin Harris ● 7101d

Hi AndrewI have not been on the site for a while. In answer to your question at the very start. No one who is not a British citizen or has leave to remain in the UK is allowed access to social housing. There is a common misconception amongst the public about this issue. Refugees awaiting decision on leave to remain etc. are often housed on a temporary basis only. The current allocation systems favour those who are actually homeless, or homeless in temporary accommodation. That is those who are homeless get priority over those who are overcrowded (not-homeless but on the waiting list) or those say living in their parental home (not-homeless but on the waiting list) when housing becomes available. Recent immigrants (who are British citizens or who have leave to remain) represent a high proportion of the homeless population. When these homeless people are housed in front of non-homeless people on the waiting list, it creates a perception of unfairness for some people.The real issue is the allocation system and the supply of social housing. Should homeless people get the priority when housing is allocated?, my own view is yes as they suffer all sorts of problems associated with homelessness.The issues of improving housing condition for non homeless people is another issues and can only be addressed by a massive increase in the availability of social housing. This government has done well compared to the last but there is simply not the supply of money (and land in certain places) to build all the social housing that is needed.

Alan Sheerins ● 7100d

Hi Alan"Recent immigrants (who are British citizens or who have leave to remain) represent a high proportion of the homeless population. When these homeless people are housed in front of non-homeless people on the waiting list, it creates a perception of unfairness for some people".My viewAnybody in their right mind, and any sense of fairness, would say that this category of people, should be housed initially in ex army camps, there are many currently not being used at present. I know of people born in this country who, though not classified as homeless, are living in totally unsuitable accommodation, you have situations where children of different sexes, are sharing a single room, or sleeping in the kitchen/living room. I am sure that this is against the law if either or both children are or have reached puberty, or at least it should be?The other solution is to halt ALL immigration and asylum applications, and implement a voucher system, to encourage people who will not be a drain on our limited resources. When we have ALL of our people housed in suitable and appropriate accommodation, then and only then should we consider giving these people our limited social housing. "CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME! or does it?I think you have answered the next question yourself Alan consider what you said:-"but there is simply not the supply of money (and land in certain places) to build all the social housing that is needed!So Alan and Justin "No Land and No money" and where there is land available, the local services will not be able to cope with an influx of migrants, what about water supply, hospitals, doctors, schools. We have at present, many schools where immigrant children, many where English is not their first language representing a high percentage of the total. The rest of the fluent English speaking children are held back as a consequence. "The issues of improving housing condition for non homeless people is another issues and can only be addressed by a massive increase in the availability of social housing. This government has done well compared to the last but there is simply not the supply of money (and land in certain places) to build all the social housing that is needed".So Alan considering the lack of resources that are available, it is a question of "Sod the local people" who are after all, funding this housing fiasco with their hard earned money. This is what happens when politicians lose control and pander to the PC brigade. Are you listening also Justin? I assure you I will get around to answer your questions but I am sure you won't like the answers!

Account suspended ● 7100d

Hi AlanYou said"Recent immigrants (who are British citizens or who have leave to remain) represent a high proportion of the homeless population. When these homeless people are housed in front of non-homeless people on the waiting list, it creates a perception of unfairness for some people".My viewAnybody in their right mind, and any sense of fairness, would say that this category of people, should be housed initially in ex army camps, there they can then learn English and about our culture, and perhaps contribute to the economy of the community by doing some work. Rather than the scandalous situation of the Afghan hijackers, who are living the life of solomon and allegedly watching TV, why arent they classified as "not actively seeking work"?. I also heard of people born in this country who, though not classified as homeless, are living in totally unsuitable accommodation, you have situations where children of different sexes, are sharing a single room, or sleeping in the kitchen/living room, and have waited years for adequate housing. I am sure that this is against the law if either or both children are or have reached puberty, or at least it should be?The other solution is to halt ALL immigration and asylum applications, and implement a voucher system, to encourage people who will not be a drain on our limited resources. When we have ALL of our people housed in suitable and appropriate accommodation, then and only then should we consider giving these people our limited social housing. "CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME! or does it?I think you have answered the next question yourself Alan consider what you said:-"but there is simply not the supply of money (and land in certain places) to build all the social housing that is needed!So Alan and Justin "No Land and No money" and where there is land available, the local services will not be able to cope with an influx of migrants, what about water supply, hospitals, doctors, schools. We have at present, many schools where immigrant children, many where English is not their first language and many unable to speak any English at all and representing a high percentage of the total. The rest of the fluent English speaking children are held back as a consequence. Alan here is whay you actually wrote:-"The issues of improving housing condition for non homeless people is another issues and can only be addressed by a massive increase in the availability of social housing. This government has done well compared to the last but there is simply not the supply of money (and land in certain places) to build all the social housing that is needed".So Alan considering the lack of resources that are available, it is a question of "Sod the local people" who are after all, funding this housing fiasco with their hard earned money. It looks as though the answer is to find more money, from us I presume Alan by way of higher taxes?This is what happens when politicians lose control and pander to the PC brigade, who cannot see that we have become a "soft touch". Are you listening also Justin, the above will answer some of your questions?

Account suspended ● 7100d

!With all this going backwards and forwards, can one of you who appear to have all the information at your fingertips regarding this issue, please answer this for me."Why would anybody sleep rough in Calais, and await the opportunity to either go through the euro tunnel clinging to a train, or conversely await an opportunity to break into sa lorry" most have travelled through many safe countries with the sole intention of getting to the UK, and who are almost exclusively men, who are between the ages of 18-30,cannot be the weather can it? If as has been suggested that they are fleeing danger, who would leave women and children to face it alone?I will still stick by my take on this matter, which is "British subjects, either born here, or have settled here for at least 10 nyears, will have first take on ANY accommodation.I appreciate that having arrived here for various reasons they need to have a roof over their heads, but  why not open up and refurbish ex army camps and house them there. As I have said many times before, in spite of the usual lefty luvvies accusing me of everything under the sun,I stand by this recommendation They can be monitored and taught English, and all important check their status,where they have come from, are they guilty of any crimes in their home country, (we have enough home grown terrorists, rapists, muggers and other assorted riminals) this will enable them to seek employment and sustain themselves, and then compete for the limited housing that is available. Our schools, hospitals, and local services are already facing huge problems and itwont be too long before we have melt down or more seriously civil unrest. None of the people who are defending the continuation of immigration/asylum/illegals...who coincidentally we are not sure exactly how many there are here, or worse still what they are up to. I would ask them one further question, which is "How long can we sustain (and look after) everbody who arrives here, do yaou think that a stage will be reached when we can physicall take no more. Before ypou answer, remember that the government grotesquely underestimated the number who wanted to come here from Eastern Europe to work have now decided to settle here. No plans have been made for these people, for schools, health care, housing etc. But perhaps I have got it all wrong and as I have been accuse of being a racist before, I expect the same again. If any body feels like doing so, will they please inform the police 020-8577-1212 and pass on the information, as I am currently having a criminal record check, to enable me to carry on working in the police station. I work with many ethnic PCSO's and police officers, who would not want me there amongst them if it is proved that I am a racist, but be prepared to substansiate any accusations that you may make! Finally guys, who do YOU think should come first in housing, medical care, schooling, along with other local services, paid for by UK residents, please leave out the PC crap when you answer! Also keep in mind the laws of libel!

Account suspended ● 7098d

Justin my PC friend, you rather sarcastically wrote:-"Andrew, you have me pegged and now I recognise that I am just a selfish person living in my vast mansion ( any chance of letting out some rooms to the homeless?) who has dedicated myself to making sure that nurses and police officers don't get properly housed because of my looney left opinions. (Correct!) I am now totally converted to your point of view (about time too!). However I have few concerns about how our new policy would work in practise".My replyI am glad you have seen some sense (at last!) Don’t be too concerned though, it can be resolved if you luvvies agree that British must come first. I will now endeavour to give you my answers to your questions.You askedFirstly if we are to give priority to 'born and bred' how is this to be determined? If a child is locally born but his or her parents are not then would they be entitled to housing? What about a British citizen not born in this country? Does born and bred mean locally or nationally - would for instance British born people who have just moved here from other parts of the country be put ahead in the queue of non-British born people who have lived in Brentford for most of their lives?My replyBorn and bred means just that.Born and grown up here. The age of the child would also be a consideration, for him or her to be considered for housing, but whatever the age, his/her parents would be treated as non British, and therefore would not qualify for social housing unless they apply for citizenship, you know but it doesn’t seem to concern you that this is wide open for further abuse!Born and bred in this context means local to the borough, in this example, the Borough of Hounslow. British people moving to here from other parts of the country could apply for social housing and go on the waiting list. If a person who has lived here for most of their lives, this would again depend on their age I would question why, if they have lived here most of their lives, they haven’t applied for citizenship to avoid this situation of “rights”? if they haven't applied, then they are obviously not interested! You askedIf we are going to deny Council housing to non-British born people does that mean you would wish the general obligation of Councils to house everybody? Are we prepared for families of rough sleepers around the borough?My replyYes!, an absolute obligation to house everybody, who cannot afford a mortgage, or to rent in the private sector. No we are not prepared for rough sleepers, ask yourself why?.........because we are too tied up with the problems of others, immigrants/asylum seekers/refugees etc to worry about them. Rough sleepers are put up in hostels; very few have a room to call their own. I would reverse this situation And that would be the ONLY option. Finally put a stop to housing young teenagers who act irresponsibly by getting pregnant, I'll leave the solution to others for now!You askedWhat would our reaction be when the first child dies in winter as a result of not being housed due to our policy. My replyI think you know the answer to this, but the policy of allowing too many immigrants and others to settle here, and want/wish to be housed, in an already overcrowded and under resourced area,  they should instead be dispersed across the UK to other areas of the UK. Never mind the NIMBY’s or the newcomers deciding where they want to go, we decide where NOT THEM, and if, has happened in the past they return here, they then should find their own accommodation, having made themselves purposely homeless for whatever reason.You askedI presume you will say that people would not come to this country if they have nowhere to live but that isn't really a consideration for a genuine asylum seeker bringing his family to Britain to save their lives. You may doubt such people exist but I can assure you that they do.My replyNo I don’t think that people would not come to this country if there was no guarantee of housing. Many travel through many “safe countries”, knowing full well that we will put them first, for everything, and with any protests from us the plebs, being shouted down by the liberal “luvvies” as witnessed on this forum. I don’t think you understand either, that  many of them con their way here, again ask yourself what is the attraction for them as opposed to elsewhere? Our weather?You askedIf we give priority to key workers in public services for Council housing how does this help the plight of local people on the waiting list? People would be attracted to work in the area by the subsidised housing and the chance to sell off the unit at a profit. Wouldn't this squeeze out more local people and reduce our stock even further? Wouldn't housing single people in these units be an inefficient use of scarce stock and ultimately result in more people being homeless?My replyHave you really thought this through? If you turned up to the local hospital, and there were no porters, nurses, junior doctors, where would you go to, as my wife had to when suffering a cardiac arrest, she was sent to St. Georges in Tooting, and on another occasion to Barnet General Hospital through lack of staff and resources. And I think you insult these categories of priority key workers, by suggesting that they would sell on to make a profit, if that is your theory, wouldn’t that also apply to everybody else who had the accommodation?  Some Housing Associations convert flats into shared accomodation for single people, they need not be occupied by a single person.Any chance of a considered answer to these questions rather than a rant?You have got it. How about giving us your PC suggestion as to how we allocate scarce housing stock, both Public and Private?

Account suspended ● 7097d

Thank you Andrew for finally answering some of my questions.When you say:"Born and bred means just that.Born and grown up here. The age of the child would also be a consideration, for him or her to be considered for housing, but whatever the age, his/her parents would be treated as non British, and therefore would not qualify for social housing unless they apply for citizenship"This raises more questions that it answers. Take the case of a British born baby with British citizenship. Given your requirement that children must be 'bred' as well as 'born' in this country they presumably would not be entitled to housing. At what age does a child in your view become British 'bred' and therefore entitled to housing. Also the implication of your answer seems to be that although the child may be entitled to housing the parents won't."Born and bred in this context means local to the borough, in this example, the Borough of Hounslow."So people coming to this borough to work as police officers or nurses would be at the back of the queue."Yes!, an absolute obligation to house everybody, who cannot afford a mortgage, or to rent in the private sector. No we are not prepared for rough sleepers, ask yourself why?.........because we are too tied up with the problems of others, immigrants/asylum seekers/refugees etc to worry about them."Do you have any evidence to back up this claim? My understanding is that the Council would only have a responsibility to find housing for successful asylum seekers . Apart from the cause celebre of the Afghan hijackers which you keep referring to (and everyone agrees is a travesty) how many other people granted asylum has Hounslow housed over the last year or so?"Finally put a stop to housing young teenagers who act irresponsibly by getting pregnant"At least could we give them warm blankets for their babies when they have to sleep outside in the winter?"the policy of allowing too many immigrants and others to settle here, and want/wish to be housed, in an already overcrowded and under resourced area,  they should instead be dispersed across the UK to other areas of the UK."I think you are getting confused between immigration in general and asylum seekers. Most immigrants currently are from the expanded EU and Australasia and come to work and make no claim on the Council for housing. It is not a policy to house them here but they come to areas where there is a lot of work. If there was no work they would go home. There already is a policy of trying to spread the settlement of successful asylum seekers to other parts of the UK."No I don’t think that people would not come to this country if there was no guarantee of housing. Many travel through many “safe countries”, knowing full well that we will put them first, for everything, and with any protests from us the plebs, being shouted down by the liberal “luvvies” as witnessed on this forum"We take fewer asylum seekers per head of population than most European countries. Many choose to ask for asylum here because there is already an established ex-patriate community or because of historic ties with Britain - the Zimbaweans for instance. Even if you don't choose to accept these facts you still have singularly failed to demonstrate that people granted asylum are causing any meaningful stress on housing in this borough. There hasn't been a single statistic in any of your rants."If you turned up to the local hospital, and there were no porters, nurses, junior doctors, where would you go to?"Ironically if we restricted immigration in the way that you wished the NHS would collapse due to lack of staff."And I think you insult these categories of priority key workers, by suggesting that they would sell on to make a profit, if that is your theory, wouldn’t that also apply to everybody else who had the accommodation? "Yes but it would be better to give that opportunity to a family rather than a single person. "How about giving us your PC suggestion as to how we allocate scarce housing stock, both Public and Private? "On the basis of need not race or woolly concepts of born and bred.

Justin Harris ● 7095d

JustinThank you Andrew for finally answering some of my questions  only hope that you start to now!I agree with Eileen,you do waffle on!I only wish that you would stop being selective with what you choose to answer. Please don't answer a question with another question. What about:-Why would anybody sleep rough in Calais, and await the opportunity to either go through the Eurotunnel, or conversely await an opportunity to break into a lorry" with most having travelled through many safe countries, with the sole intention of getting to the UK, and who are almost exclusively fit young men and generally between the ages of 18-30 can it be our weather? Or............?If as has been suggested that they are fleeing danger, who would leave women and children to face it alone? If your solution for nurses, doctors, police, porter’s, ambulance drivers, paramedics, were to be implemented and they moved on, I hope you would not be mugged, seriously enough or have a serious accident to require the assistance of any of the aforementioned categories of people. Suggestions please for:- a) Somewhere cheaper......where…….further north? b) The impact it would have on the local services if they heeded your advice?...close the services down?c) Your solution for those who do not have a family home? Sleep rough on a park bench, in a cardboard box?..........where?d) Who will, in your opinion carry out the work for our local services, if those without affordable housing move on?  I doubt if the hijackers would want to know do you? too much like hard work!And now your solution for them:-Meanwhile pensioners can be charged for their care, selling their homes in the process to pay for it. Never mind the fact, that they have paid into the system all of their lives, so that scroats like these (Highjackers) can live the life of Solomon.

Account suspended ● 7094d

JustinThank you Andrew for finally answering some of my questions  only hope that you start to now!I agree with Eileen,you do waffle on!I only wish that you would stop being selective with what you choose to answer. Please don't answer a question with another question. What about:-Why would anybody sleep rough in Calais, and await the opportunity to either go through the Eurotunnel, or conversely await an opportunity to break into a lorry" with most having travelled through many safe countries, with the sole intention of getting to the UK, and who are almost exclusively fit young men and generally between the ages of 18-30 can it be our weather? Or............?If as has been suggested that they are fleeing danger, who would leave women and children to face it alone? If your solution for nurses, doctors, police, porter’s, ambulance drivers, paramedics, were to be implemented and they moved on, I hope you would not be mugged, seriously enough or have a serious accident to require the assistance of any of the aforementioned categories of people. Suggestions please for:- a) Somewhere cheaper......where…….further north? b) The impact it would have on the local services if they heeded your advice?...close the services down?c) Your solution for those who do not have a family home? Sleep rough on a park bench, in a cardboard box?..........where?d) Who will, in your opinion carry out the work for our local services, if those without affordable housing move on?  I doubt if the hijackers would want to know do you? too much like hard work!And now your solution for them:-Meanwhile pensioners can be charged for their care, selling their homes in the process to pay for it. Never mind the fact, that they have paid into the system all of their lives, so that scroats like these (Highjackers) can live the life of Solomon.Justin, I put this to you.You apparently do not see this as a problem do you? Could we not take up the suggestion that you put forward for single public sector workers, and for them to live in the family home?"Finally put a stop to housing young teenagers who act irresponsibly by getting pregnant"And this is your intelligent reply..This says it all!At least could we give them warm blankets for their babies when they have to sleep outside in the winter?I think you know that the above is another of your flippant remarks. We have here in the UK the highest rate of teenage pregnancies, and you could not/would not give a simple answerto this massive social problem.You seem to be only interested in "point scoring". So as not to bore the pants of other forum users, I will await your response to the points that I have previously raised, and if you respond without referring to my comments as a "rant" which is a word common to "luvvies of the left" who want to supresss any contentious issues! I will bid this thread good bye.....OK?

Account suspended ● 7093d

Having a life I wasn't able to go through all your posts on this subject but I presume your question refers to the issue of Key Workers and Social Housing.I have already answered this question several times but here goes again. It would be utter madness to give preferential allocation of the current limited and shrinking social housing stock to single people in designated professions. There are definitely more families in crisis who have a much greater need.It is with weary resignation that I realise in giving you this answer that you will immediately accuse me of not caring about nurses etc. However the fact is that a single person, even in relatively low pay employment is capable of housing themselves. I fully accept that this may not be the kind of housing they deserve and even in an averagely expensive area like Brentford the costs may mean that many of our nurses, teachers, policemen can't afford to live in the place they serve. This is very bad for us as a community but it is a lesser evil to giving scarce social housing to people who already have a home and displacing families.You always hark back to the view that the lack of availability of council housing for local people is caused by immigrants jumping the queue. I don't believe that this is the case. In Barking, where Margaret Hodge is the MP, the Evening Standard investigations showed that no council housing had been given to recent immigrants in the last year. It is likely that this situation is mirrored in Hounslow. It would be very easy for you to prove me wrong but you don't seem to want facts to get in the way of your opinions.

Justin Harris ● 7089d

Just joined here myself, nice to see some healthy debate about the housing situation, I see from the councils own website locata, that last year 28,061 people on the housing waiting list in non-priority cases, only 82 got housed, with most of those being over 50 yrs old.So if I'm on the housing waiting list for another 332 years, then I'll get housed..(I've already been on the list 10 years, lived in the area 18 years in total, 8 of those as a small child growing up here.)For now, I'm in the cheapest rented room I can find in Southall, whats it like, well, I caught 100+ mice last year in the traps, and I think the room is almost sealed to prevent the neighbours cockroaches from regularly paying a visit.  The rent used to be half what it is now, but thanks to the council insisting landlords improve their properties for us poor people, the rents doubled, way to go.. :-(So now I have double glazing, whoopie do, if I was on benefits I couldn't afford to pay the rent as the housing benefit+benefits doesn't cover it!I cannot get housing benefit due to a loophole in the system which prevents anyone who went to university and DID NOT take out a loan, as that money you could have borrowed is counted as capital, and as one never had it, one cannot possibly ever spend it..(There is some hope now that maybe with rising levels required for minumn housing benefit that at some point, even with 16k of never can spend capital, one would be entitled to some.)The house I live in has an interesting collection of people, all from differeent countries and religions, some long term neighbours who having worked and lived in this country many years, are still trying to get housing (I was born here myself.) whilst immigrants arrive and after their year of waiting, disappear from the overcrowded rooms (20+ people sharing a single room is not uncommon, not all at once you understand, as one person wakes up and leaves, another takes their bed/mattress.) and into their nice council home.Why just the other day an old immigrant was telling me how after 30 years in this country and living in his shoebox style room, those newly arrived had the cheek to say to him how easy it was to get a house and he should do the same!Now if only he could produce 3 children in a year to get to the top of the que..My own solution to my own problem, forget about trying to get council housing, I'm going to save every penny, buy some land, get planning permission and build my own very cheap home (I reckon I can build a concrete dome home for £10k) someplace up north where land is £500 an acre, after which I plan to build more homes so that others like myself can find cheap rented homes to live in.I think its about time people got themselves organised and sorted out the housing problem themselves, rather than keep hoping decade after decade that the government or local council is ever going to do anything about those of us at the bottom of the ladder.

John Smith ● 7082d

What do you think the mistakes of the earlier large scale council housing was ?There are still a large number of brownfield sites dotted around that could be turned over to small scale housing, though its a pity that for many years its been policy to sell off this surplus government land.But in the countryside there is plenty of land!I too feel a more optermistic feel is in the air, that at last a thought about the right direction has entered peoples minds at the top.Sadly though, I imagine as what usually happens is things get watered down and what we end up with, isn't really what we had in mind in the first place.Eg. the key worker housing approach hasn't really introduced stunningly cheap housing for nurses/police/etc.Yes, wasn't it 800,000 mortages last year for buy to let ?At least there isn't a shortage now if you can afford it :-)I see social housing/rented as good on several counts, not at least mobility in the job market, as often there are jobs in one area and not another, but its not an easy task to just move there.I see a need for local below market rent properties so that low paid job people can afford someplace to live (at the moment you need 5 people on minumn wage to afford a 1 bedroom place..) and that without this, we are already seeing the effects it is having on nurses, and police. (especially since so many forces ended their cheap rented homes for officers..)I would want though to avoid having all the social housing taken up by the unemployed though, as it wouldn't encourage them to go out and get a job if they are too comfortable.  But allowing people perhaps say 3 months to get a job whilst living in their new low rent home I think would be reasonable.  As it only recently came to my attention that cheap social housing does indeed act as a magnet for those happy to avoid work due to the high benefits given to certain groups, and that is something we should try and avoid, and instead fill the low cost homes with low paid workers.I too would like to see better home designs employed, mainly ones which increase security aspects (so no glass front doors..), reduce heating/cooling costs, low fire risk (concrete in, wood out..), also noise pollution is a mayor aspect for neighbours (again concrete in..) and very much overlooked when it comes to convertions of buildings into flats.Layout of social housing is also an issue when it comes to places for muggers to hang out, and little thought is generally given to this area, that and parking aspects, we need parking spaces!

John Smith ● 7078d

I'm no expert but I did live in San Diego for about a year in the early 90s.  Very few people owned their own homes practically everybody rented.  Obviously someone owned the properties but I don't know who.  I myself rented a one bedroom apartment in a small development with a pool, tennis court and gym.  The apartments were unfurnished except the kitchens which were fully fitted with dishwasher, washing machine, dryer, microwave, fridge and cookers and were affordable.  At that time the rent was $400 a month.  At the same time in England a one bed flat in Brentford would have been about £600 per month (and nothing like as good).  Also at that time there were $2 to the pound and salaries in California were roughly twice that in England, i.e. £12000 p.a. in England $24,000 p.a. in California.Things may well have changed now but the simple fact is that rents in the private sector in the UK are astronomic although probably in keeping with property prices.  To rent a one bed flat in Brenford from a private landlord would probably cost around £850 per month and there are few and far between that are unfurnished.  If a single person could afford £850 plus they would surely be better off paying a mortgage but how many single people could afford £850 plus per month?When new developments go up nowadays with an element of so called "affordable housing" you have to be on a list of some sort i.e. council or housing association and you have to be in a position to buy at least a share in the property.  Why can't housing associations, council or whoever just rent their properties to whoever wants to rent it at an affordable rent?  I imagine that must be what happens in other parts of the world.

Bernadette Paul ● 7078d

One of the reasons rents are high is that some landlords borrow the money, and thus have to pay back that, and they want a better rate of return than putting it in the bank.If someone or an organisation already owned the property and it was paid in full, then it would be quite possible to charge far less rents, especially if one wasn't interested in getting a return on ones investment, and was just happy to let it appreciate in the value of the property itself.As such, housing associations could offer studio flats for £100 a month in london if they so wished, but the bean counters point out they can offer more housing if they borrow to the hilt and charge higher amounts...In the early 90's I lived up north and you could rent a flat for £60 a month, or a whole detached 3 bedroom house including garage for £100 !One of things which put me off a mortgage is the uncertainity of the future, during the property crash of the 80/90's I saw many people who lost their jobs and had been paying a mortgage for 10 years, suddenly losing their homes, and still owing money when it was sold way below market price just to get the building societys money back.At least people are moving towards fixed rate mortgages now, though this is having a knock on effect in that the government has less influence on the economny, thus making it harder to save us all if things start to go bad inflation wise..I'm loath to buy a new build as the quality of construction and design is so awful, you almost have more room living in a caravan!Give me an old house thats been up 100+ years, and no ones fiddled with the plumbing for 20 of those, I'll buy that maybe, not something thats so new the paint hasn't dried, and you just know the shoddy workmanship means its going to spring leaks like the Titanic and be a headache for 5 years whilst you discover all its faults and spend a small fortune fixing everything.

John Smith ● 7078d

The cheapest I've seen a place locally is an ex council flat (concrete construction, so no real chance of a mortgage, and being pebbledashed on the outside, hard to tell without an expensive survey if its got any concrete cancer issues..) which was on the market for 6+ months (and probably still is..) at 90k, which also included sitting tenants, and in a not so wonderful neighbourhood, with 2nd story access corridor designed ideally for muggers to lurk, was pretty unappealing, even though the rooms was of a decent size.Other than that, most of what I have seen has been mostly of the laminate flooring shoe string budget types whose behind the scenes qality control would probably make Holmes on Homes throw a hissy fit :-)Few have a parking space thats yours alone, virtually all are as soundproof as a paperbag, with many designed along the lines that a broom cupboard is now considered a double bedroom.My parents are penniless, so no chance that direction, got to make it all on my own, and with prices so high for land, I'm much less inclined to invest a million or so in a space I can barely breath in, let alone live comfortably.  So I'm more inclined to move into the countryside and built there, so that the majority of any money I have goes into the property itself, rather than the land upon which it sits.From my vague memory the council house sale money gets spent by the government, its witheld from local councils to spend on the basis of social control in forcing people to buy homes, rather than rent.On the not unsensible idea that owners are more productive members of society than renters, because they are forced to work to pay the mortage, where as renters can more easily get benefits to pay. (though this has got harder over the years.)Perhaps if housing benefit only paid for barracks style living, and we built plenty of that so the really poor members of society could have a roof over their heads, we could prevent people from living the life of luxury in their 500k housing benefit paid for penthouse flat, provide at the same time mobility in the workforce, so people could move easily from one area without jobs to another with.  We might help to both solve homelessness and motiviate the unemployed work harder, as well as actually helping them to do so.A win win situation for all, as the PR speak goes :-)

John Smith ● 7075d

To all the "luvvies" who disagreed with Margaret Hodge recently, please read the following. The honest Alan Johnson said that only 1% of social housing was given to immigrants but have now admitted that they were wrong and it should be 5%.........How can anybody trust this lot is beyond my comprehension! No apology, but then again, should you be surprised?Can they be trusted to give any information whether it be on immigration, asylum, illegal immigration, unemployed.Any comment forthcoming from Alan Sheerins.....not on your life!200,000 'social homes' given to immigrants By Gary Cleland Telegraph.co.ukLast Updated: 1:58am BST 02/07/2007Five times more immigrants are given social housing than previously claimed, the Government has admitted.Just weeks ago ministers insisted only one per cent of social housing is given to immigrants, in an attempt to quell widespread fears that they are treated better by local authorities than people born in Britain.But after an investigation by ITV's Tonight With Trevor McDonald programme, the Government has admitted that 200,000 of Britain's social homes - five per cent of the total - were given to immigrants last year.There is a waiting list of 1.5 million for the four million social houses in Britain.Priority for houses is given to those most in need. Immigrant families cannot automatically be put to the top of the queue, but often fall into needy groups by being homeless or living in overcrowded accommodation.The Government's original figures were published on May 21 in the midst of a controversy surrounding an article by Margaret Hodge, then the industry minister, claiming British families had more right to social housing than new migrants.An internal Labour row saw then-deputy leadership hopefuls Alan Johnson and John Cruddas rebuke Mrs Hodge, with Johnson accusing her of using the "language of the BNP".However, the Government was yesterday forced to confirm that the five per cent figure claimed by the television report was correct. But it denied any intention to mislead, claiming it had simply updated its calculation system since May.A spokesman for the Department for Communities and Local Government said: "It is bizarre that people should criticise the government for carrying out further analysis."Unconvinced, Sir Andrew Green, of Migrationwatch UK, said: "If the Government doesn't know how many foreigners are in social housing they damn well ought to."

Account suspended ● 7067d