Forum Topic

Magistrate to be disciplined?

The lunatics are still running the asylum it seems. In the news today, it told of a magistrate who walked out of court, because a lady who was appearing before him for alleged criminal damage, refused to remove her veil. He said that he would not proceed with her case until her identity was verified! Needless to say her lawyer is going to complain, and I sense compensation (for hurt feelings?) coming on. Meanwhile he (the magistrate) who has many years experience faces disciplinary action........what a bloody mad world we live in!We are in the midst of serious threats from people, who want to kill and maim this countrys' citizens today, and yet we still pussyfoot around with them. Everyone without exception, should be made to identify themselves. I'm afraid its' security first and religious beliefs  last IMHO!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6548d64 Comments

Careful folks there would seem to be a danger of rational debate braking out on the TW8 forum.The issue of mental health, the young and cannabis is problematic; of course the young should be steered away from all drugs.Psychosis has always shown its symptoms during teenage years, this is a medical fact that any first year Human psychology student can tell you. The research,(5 studies) which I have read  and were given to me by a Psychiatrist working at The Royal Marsdon Hospital (the hospital that is making the claims over Mental Illness) states that cannabis use by the young can bring on mental illness in those pre disposed to mental illness. None of them states that cannabis actually causes mental illness, they also state that the cannabis induced psychosis disappears when the user stops using cannabis.I have spent my whole life around cannabis users I have only known one person who could be described as suffering Cannabis Psychosis, I have known him since childhood and he always had mental health issues since long before he used cannabis. The ‘psychosis’ symptoms that he displayed was that he become silent, lost deep in his own thoughts, this could be unnerving for people around him especially those that didn’t know him well. However once he felt less ‘stoned these symptoms eased, needles to say his friend do not offer him a smoke anymore. Others that I have met who drink alcohol and become violent are not encouraged to go out for a beer, but nobody seems in to much of a rush to criminalise them or remand them to a mental health facility over their alcohol use.My first brush with the law over cannabis came when I was about 7 or 8 when my family home was raided. My daughters came when she was 5 and her family home was raided, this happened a farther 3 times before she was thirteen  my son who is 2 years younger also endured these abuses. At least a million pounds has been wasted on me, in 5 Crown court cases and police raids, to what purpose or end is beyond me I still use cannabis and will continue to do so.The claim that more young people are ending up being referred to The Mental Health Authorities is also very miss-leading. Since reclassification ALL persons under the age of 17 are automatically referred to The Mental Health Authorities regardless of weather they exhibit problems or not. So these statistics would seem to fit in with the expression lies, dam lies and statistics. Which is a shame in a subject that needs, deserves and should have clarity and truth.

Philip Walsh ● 6524d

Hello Mick,How's retirement going? I do agree with you that young people need to be steered away from using Cannabis through those difficult teenage years, but I think in the case of adults they should be able to make their own mistakes. I find it baffling though that there is not much of an outcry around 'super strength' lagers and ciders, which I personally feel are doing a lot more damage than Cannabis. No one drinks those without the intention of getting drunk.I personally feel that drinks like Tenants Super and White 'Frightning' cause a lot more damage to our society than all  illegal drugs combined. Since starting work in a homeless hostel I have seen first hand the damage they can do and I have been totally shocked.

Guy Smith ● 6524d

I wouldn't argue with that approach at all Vanessa. My experience as a youth worker over the past 30+ years has shown me that all the illegal drugs might as well be legal as they are all extremely easily available anywhere in the country. Occasional police crackdowns (sorry about the unintended pun) and seizures don't even make the slightest dent in the problem. The current system just means huge profits for the druglords, a huge black economy "employing" thousands and thousands of (often) young people, and extremely poor quality control so that the consumer at the end of the chain doesn't even know what he/she is getting most of the time. Legalisation might transfer the profits to the big corporations, but at least they would have to institute proper quality control.Legal or illegal, alcohol or cannabis, my point remains the same. These drugs are damaging large numbers of our young people and we need to find ways of diverting young people away from them during their vulnerable years.Mick

Mick Brent ● 6524d

Mick - could it not also be the case that diagnosis is getting better? I am a firm convert to the legalise all drugs school of thought, as then and only then can the supply be controlled, which would in some part go towards making sure people with a predisposition to mental illness could not access drugs that might exacerbate their symptoms. It would also take the criminal element out of this area completely, as I see it nothing but nothing tried has so far worked at all, radical thinking is what is needed if we are to combat the menace and misery of drug taking. Prohibition never worked in the USA in the 20s but it did make the gangsters rich, the way we approach this problem now is doing the same thing here.

Vanessa Smith ● 6524d

Hi Guy - how are you doing?You wrote: "Cannabis use does NOT cause mental illness, if you are suffering from mental health problems smoking Cannabis will make the syptoms worse, however Cannabis smoking does not cause mental health problems."I think the (medical)jury is still out on this one. Of a group of a dozen Brentford young men I worked closely with in the mid 90's, 5 are currently diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia. All of these young men smoked cannabis obsessively from the age of 15-18. Other youth workers have told me of similar occurences amongst groups of young men they have worked with in similar circumstances. A consultant psychaitrist I spoke to recently told me that the majority of the patients he was seeing were young men with similar histories. You may well be right in what you say, but that does presume an awfully large proportion of the population who are in some way predisposed to schizophrenia.  Whatever the scientific truth of the situation, I think that young people need to be diverted away from cannabis use during their formative years as that seems to be when the damage is done (whichever side of the debate is "true"). Mind you, I would use exactly the same arguments against excessive alcohol use by young people.Mick

Mick Brent ● 6525d

Guy I don’t know where you got the figure for six times the carcinogens from please forwards this information. It should be noted that most people use tobacco in their joint and I suspect your figure is to do with the lack of a filter, so it is the tobacco's carcinogens that would increase, Do you have the figures for non filter tipped cigarettes and the gram per gram comparison between tobacco and cannabis. Is the cannabis figure for herbal cannabis (weed) or Hashes which contains less vegetable tars than tobacco or weed, both the latter do produce vegetable tars in approximately the same quantity.I suspect you will not have the facts to back up your figures; unfortunately this is the problem that keeps cropping up. Everyone quotes things they have read in the papers without reading the documents that the papers 'cherry pick' their facts from in order to sensationalise their reporting and sell their papers. This spreads miss-information; this is the sad state of our free press and vested interest reporting.I keep being asked what I have told my children over the issue of drug use, well here it is:As a child / young person, you are a vessel full of chemicals bubbling to a conclusion anything you add to this collection of chemicals will effect that conclusion in ways you can not pre determine and in ways you might not want or expect. This goes for all drugs legal or illegal even tea and coffee are drugs. This also includes too much sugar and additives in your food and drinks such as coca cola. It also include breathing to many fumes from hair sprays, deodorants, Mr sheen type polishes and the 4,000 plus chemicals in daily use in the homes of Britain.These chemicals have not been tested alone or in combination for health effects, in essence you need to pay attention not only to the things you add intentionally to the mix but also to the things that you do not! I hope that clarifies things a little.

Philip Walsh ● 6525d

Cannabis use does NOT cause mental illness, if you are suffering from mental health problems smoking Cannabis will make the syptoms worse, however Cannabis smoking does not cause mental health problems.Smoking Cannabis will cause respiratory problems as one joint roughly equals the same amount of carciogenics as six cigarettes. As for the motivation side of things I think that if you are motivated in your work or college course etc..., then motivation is not a problem. If you are stuck in a rubbish job with next to no propects whether you are smoking weed or not motivation is always going to be a problem.

Guy Smith ● 6526d

Before anyone gets too exited about the 24/7 comment so can every one else's kids under prohibition, only most other people's are unaware of ALL the facts

Philip Walsh ● 6526d

As I have said before my children have access to cannabis 24/7 and I have no worries about them using it, as they choose not to. They have been educated with fact not Bullsh*t which is all I seem to hear from you. As stated look at some independent research, check some facts with those that are not looking to boost their departmental funding in one way or the other and stop reading scaremongering fascist rags , you might get the respect you so clearly want.As for those that talk of putting it back to class B, this is a message from those that choose to use our drug of choice. We do not give a sod about its illegality or its classification we will use it anyway. Here is a message from the dealers, put up the classification we can put up the price and make more money. One from my family and I (my elder brothers, not my children) we were smoking cannabis in our house long before we was all branded criminals. we have had 40 years of persecution in our own homes because of it. Despite this persecution we have raised good moral responsible children, well educated and well adjusted it is not our fault that so many of our 'straighter contemporaries have made such a mess of their children's upbringings. I have been told all my life that I should embrace the culture of the many immigrants from every part of the globe that now live in this land. I have and I have found cannabis to feature largely in most of these cultures, it was part of many peoples lives all around the world before it was made illegal it has remained so through out its  illegality and will still be when these laws fall (as they are doing all over the free world). So feel free to rant all you like,pass which ever laws you like. Kill as many children as you like while napalming South American and third world countries to repress peoples and cultures the world over, we do not give a sh*t any more. Your morals are repugnant, your aims are an obscenity and your action worlds wide are true crimes.The glass weed currently on the streets and in the lungs of our young is a time bomb over health, it is those most at risk the young you claim to wish to protect that are filling up intensive care with blood being coughed up from their lacerated lungs and throats but that's OK. They should not smoke or eat Cannabis so its their own fault. No doubt in a few years time so called experts, fully aware of the damage coursed by this glass weed will be holding up a hole new list of lung diseases that it has caused and claim it was down to cannabis. You people are sad and sick in the mind, you waste hundreds of millions of pounds world wide stopping the countries such as Afghanistan from producing the crop that supported their economies for thousands of years. Instead of helping the third world we keep it down forcing countries and their farmers to produce crops that can not sustain the people and only serve to impoverish their lives, you make me want to throw up, you really do!

Philip Walsh ● 6526d

vANESSA"You can always find an 'expert' to say what you want to hear, look at the row over vaccinations and Autism"And the doctor who carried out the alleged research, has been hauled in front of the BMA for misconduct, he was allegedly using this research because he was advocatiing the use of a single jab, for which he had an interest.

Account suspended ● 6526d

Vanessa,your head is firmly in the sand on this one.Excessive use of cannabis ruins concentration and motivation and can seriously worsen mental health problems.It can cause paranoid delusions and respiratory diseases.

Keith Iddon ● 6526d

You can always find an 'expert' to say what you want to hear, look at the row over vaccinations and Autism.

Vanessa Smith ● 6526d

From The Sunday TimesDecember 11, 2005Scans reveal brain damage from cannabis is like schizophreniaVanessa"Philip - as far as I am aware there is no actual evidence that cannabis is responsible for, or actually causes mental illness".There is a mass of evidence around about the dangers of cannabis, it all depends on where you look for it, or what you wan't to believe! Can you check on the Times web site for example. Are we to dismiss this and other research out of hand, and leave it in the hands of those with a vested interest?.  http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article757211.ece

Account suspended ● 6526d

Philip"I suggest you have a real good look at yourself and your postings". Which ones in particular did you have in mind? I will challenge you, to do what I have asked Gareth to do, in previous posts, but I am unsure whether or not he will take me up on it! In addition I urge you to notify the Borough Police Commander Chief Superintendent Bilson as soon as he takes up his post. As a volunteer for the Met. it would be inappropriate for me to continue to do so, considering that I work alongside many ethnic police officers and PCSO's, and you can substantiate your complaint(s)If they are upheld by the CRE or the police, or the moderators of this site, I will refrain from posting on TW8, and make a £20 donation to any charity! I can't say fairer than that can I?Finally, Philip you haven't replied to the question of what your reaction would be if any of your children smoke cannabis. Exactly what will you say? I know of your's and others opinion of me already...... so over to you!Just a reminder for you to consider this."Just one more thing Gareth, you are quite fond of referring to me as a racist or a bigot, but like others of the liberal left, you can’t/won’t/ or refuse to, or unwilling to answer with examples. If you finally do give examples, I will then send them off to the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) with a request that they make a judgement on it/them. If they perceive that I have made racist or bigoted remarks, I will post an apology on TW8…………Fair enough?  It may also give both you and Mr Sheerins and others of course, a bench mark to make a well informed judgement on just what racism and bigotry really is, in the true sense of the words OK"? 

Account suspended ● 6527d

Philip - as far as I am aware there is no actual evidence that cannabis is responsible for, or actually causes mental illness, that is not to say that if you already suffered with a mental illness cannabis might aggravate it, but then a can of Tennants extra strong could do the same and I don't see calls for the sale of that to be banned or restricted. Personally I think the politicians have got it all wrong - all drugs should be legalised, then and only then can the supply be controlled. It's like the latest lunacy of raising the age at which you can drive - I would rather it was lowered, and young drivers made to have a Government run insurance that they could afford and their cars restricted to the smaller engined variety and probation plates for a year or so. It seems to me making it harder is likely to push up the figures of taking and driving without consent and put more lives in danger rather than the reverse. Surely to God there are more important things for Governments to worry about?

Vanessa Smith ● 6527d

I am not surprised at the things you have been called. All of those people can't be wrong, I suggest you have a real good look at yourself and your postings.

Philip Walsh ● 6527d

PhilipI have been called "racist", "bigot", "ignorant", "arrogant", "old man"  on this and other forums, but "drugfascist" ....really!Just for the record, I have no control whatsoever nor the desire to have, of what is, and is not allowed to be produced. If people wish to take drugs, smoke tobacco, drink, in spite of the warnings of the dangers that is up to them, ultimately its their responsibility.The safety net IMO would be "don't smoke tobacco, with or without any added substances" I prefer to listen to the medical experts, who have produced the evidence. Apologies to you for having an opinion.

Account suspended ● 6527d

sorry Brian was the last person I sent that info to on the contaminated Cannabis thread. I recommend you read that thread for some balance to your drug fascism it details a very real risk to the health of the young one much more real then any you can put forward and it the fault of people like you and the rest of the prohibitionists for allowing uncontrolled production without the safety net that Tobaccos and Alcohol have to protect the public.As I have said you are ignorant of the facts and far to much of a drug fascist to ever have a enlightened view, as such I really can't be arsed to converse with you any any longer.

Philip Walsh ● 6527d

Gareth (2nd time!)As the guardian of what is discussed on this forum, may I (cheekily!) suggest you consider what you have said in the past? It would appear to a "dear old chap" like me, that when Gareth is displeased, he says the following:-"I think that Alan forgets that I am a taxpayer and a member of society. As such I have an absolute right to my opinions, irrespective of how palatable or unpalatable Alan may find my opinions - unless of course Alan and his political party seeks to curtail the freedom of speech".GarethCan you please clarify the above remarks you made, as I asked you before if it would also apply to me, but you were apparently unable to……so please try again will you, so that I can understand why it may only apply to you and not to me apparently?Just one more thing Gareth, you are quite fond of referring to me as a racist or a bigot, but like others of the liberal left, you can’t/won’t/refuse to, or unwilling to answer with examples. If you finally do give examples, I will then send them off to the CRE (Commission for Racial Equality) with a request that they make a judgement on it/them. If they perceive that I have made racist or bigoted remarks, I will post an apology on TW8…………Fair enough?  It may also give both you and Mr Sheerins and others of course, a bench mark to make a well informed judgement on just what racism and bigotry really is, in the true sense of the words OK? 

Account suspended ● 6528d

PhilipWho's Brian, you haven't had a crafty drag have you. If it was meant for ME (ANDREW) and as I don't partake of it myself, I couldn't give a stuff what it is called or where it comes from.......The only thing that is of interest to me, is to be watching it burn in the incinerator, when it has been confiscated from somebody, or from an illegal farm set up in some poor sods property that they have rented for the purpose, and without one minutes care for those unlucky enough to live nearby! I hope you now understand my position on any kind of drugs!

Account suspended ● 6528d

Sorry Andrew you are ignorant because you only listen to views that agree with yours.As for dangerous drugs I suggest you read up on alcohol and draw your self up a list of dangers associated with it.Perhaps you should do the same for tobacco.Unlike you of course!Tobacco, yes I am fully aware of it's dangers, having lost my mother with lung cancer. And had you not noticed the campaign, where smoking is banned in the work place, help clinics to help those wishing to quit and the dangers are also printed on every packet. The politicians pretend they are concerned, and increase the price of them year on year, which does nothing to deter those who just cannot give them up, but increases the money going into their coffers. As to alcohol, I am fully aware of the dangers associated with it, having worked in a brewery for four years, and no I don't drink, and gave up cigarettes 25 years ago.Are you suggesting that because of this, we should ignore the dangers of cannabis, which can cause mental health problems, together with the added risk of bronchitis, CPOD, and lung cancer? Puff away Phil! forget about proportional dangers. You did not say whether or not you would ignore your children using cannabis in spite of their knowledge of it, can you say what your reaction would be?

Account suspended ● 6529d

I thought I should help you over your cannabis terminology as you obviously have limited under standing on the subject.Just to be sure you understand a little about the subject Brian,Cannabis Sativa (Latin name) True Hemp (English name)Cannabis Indica (the strains of this type of cannabis is mostly used for Hash and Charras making.Cannabis Ruderalis (Russian / East European  strain grows wild, is fairly low in THC and flowers once  the plants reach between 5-7 internodes high  no matter what the day length, unlike both Sativa and Indica strains which flower according to day length 12/12.Modern Hemp (selective breeding has produced Cannabis Sativa Plants with THC levels of 3% current European directives to the hemp breeders is to produce varieties of 2% or below)Shwag (Cuban name)Dagga (African name)Ma (Oldest recorded name)Ganga (Jamaican name)Sensimela / sensi (Mexican name meaning seedless / unfertilised female bud/flower head)Marijuana (Mexican name)Marihuana (name given to the plant in order to get 1st prohibition taxes applied in America by vested interest (Hurst, Anslinger & Co who were to stupid to use the proper spelling of the Mexican word but clever enough not to use its proper name in case the American Medical Association realised it was the plant used in over 100 medicine at the time. The AMA only found out it was the same plant 1 day before the hearings closed and was prevented from giving evidence in support of the medical properties.Weed (Used in many parts of the world normally refers to Cannabis Sativa)Kif, Moroccan poor quality cannabis (mostly Stick and leaf not good buds) also used to describe poor quality hash made from poor quality cannabis.Hashish / Hash (The principle export of Afghanistan for thousands of years.  Made from separated THC crystals usually compressed into blocks or bars for transportation or storage)Charras hand rubbed resin (fractured THC crystals) removed from the plant while still growing usually rolled into sticks (Manali) or balls (Nepalese temple Ball)Polm? Also known as Nedder Hash (THC crystals separated from the plant using a tumbler device) Bubble hash also none as Isolator hash (THC crystals separated from the plant matter using water and ice at  a temperature of 4c the mix is then agitated to fracture the crystal from the plant matter This process also removes all impurities including the naturally occurring turpentine’sSoap bar also known as kack bar by those that know what’s in it, other then the 40% cannabis content and it does not make for pleasant reading. It has become rarer these days the rise of the home grown market made it almost impossible for the criminal gangs bringing it in, to sell and it like the glass weed should be avoided Oil, (resin oil) extracted from the plant using Ether or pure Alcohol, this is a very risky method of extraction due to the volatile nature of the chemicalsOil, (cold pressed hemp seed oil the most nutritional oil on the planet extracted from the most nutritional of all the seeds, kernels or nuts. (Hemp seeds are I believe actually nuts).Honey oil (resin oil extracted from the plant using Butane gas infusion)Jelly hash also known as Royal Jelly (a mixer containing Isolator hash and Honey oil).Skunk (The name skunk in relation to cannabis is the copyright of Dutch Passion Limited of Amsterdam. It is often used incorrectly to describe any of the thousands of hybrid varieties for sale in the free world. Skunk is in fact a three plant hybrid that has been on grown since 1978 almost 40years or approximately 80 plant generations its origin are Afghani Indica 25% Mexican Acapulco gold 25% Columbian Gold 50%.At this point some of you may recognise the names of the very weeds that were being smocked in the sixty’s, along with Thai. Sticks, Durban Poison Jamaican etc which have been used to create other hybrids such as, Haze a mostly Sativa  based plant believed to be of original south American origin devolved by the Haze Brothers of I believe California back in the early seventies White Widow (often heralded as the new make the children mental plant by the prohibitionist. This plant has also been around a while despite what they say.Its origins are Brazilian and South Indian / red seal hash area.

Philip Walsh ● 6529d

Sorry Andrew you are ignorant because you only listen to views that agree with yours.As for dangerous drugs I suggest you read up on alcohol and draw your self up a list of dangers associated with it.Perhaps you should do the same for tobacco.I won’t prompt you as I would much prefer you to face you own narrow view and underline your own ignorance over the proportional dangers as these two list get ever longer in comparison to your Cannabis list.As for the local MPs both are far to vacuoles for for the public good.

Philip Walsh ● 6529d

PhilipI suggest you contact your local MP (if you can find her/him) and say that the Institute of Psychiatry has got it wrong. I presume (I hope wrongly) that you will not mind your childrem using it, notwithstanding the fact that smoking can cause/exacerbate oesophgeal, mouth, throat and lung cancer. I am also pleased that the government are considering changing its classifcation.I think your term "irresponsible idiots" can equally be applied to those, like yourself, who want to legalise it!By the way, I don't have a problem with it's use to relieve pain in MS and other conditions, and prescribed under strict medical conditions.......!I have no self interest, I am not confused, and I am only ignorant (as you delicately put it!) because I prefer to believe what I see and witness, rather than your obvious determination to legalise a dangerous (skunk) substance.

Account suspended ● 6529d

Andrew on a recent drug awareness test at a local girl’s school, my daughter scored 100% percent. This was because along with the overstated points made by the ignorant, the self interested and the confused (I include you amongst the above) my children are educated about drugs from the view of organisation such as NORM, the LCA, ENCOD, THC4MS, all of which give out more factual based information than the national drugs helpline and without doubt a more balanced and factual view then the outright lies being put out by the irresponsible idiots that run the 'ASK FRANK' campaign, mental illness is not 'brain damage' and lying to children is counter-productive.I suggest you go to: http://www.encod.org for a more balanced view from professionals working in the drugs field.

Philip Walsh ● 6529d

PhilipDo you give your children any of this advice?Name: CannabisSlang names: grass, blow, weed, spliff, ganja, dope, hash.What are the risks? Cannabis can make you paranoid. People can imagine that everyone around them is talking about them and making fun of them. It can make people feel very panicky and anxious. People get confused and are more likely to have accidents. All normal functions are affected and can be dangerous; operating machinery, riding a bike or even crossing the road, for example.People who take cannabis often have bloodshot eyes, a dry mouth and feel very tired and hungry. They can feel dizzy and sick, especially if cannabis has been mixed with alcohol. Like tobacco, cannabis can cause bronchitis and lung cancer.Where can I get more information - as a user and as a parent?Don't rely on friends, the papers or the television for accurate information. Friends and other drug users continue to perpetuate a plethora of myths about drugs and these views can be very biased. If you want the real information on drugs, ring the National Drugs Helpline on 0800 77 66 00.

Account suspended ● 6530d

GarethAs the guardian of what is discussed on this forum, may I (cheekily!) suggest you consider what you have said in the past. It would appear to a "dear old chap" like me, that when Gareth is displeased, he says the following:-"I think that Alan forgets that I am a taxpayer and a member of society. As such I have an absolute right to my opinions, irrespective of how palatable or unpalatable Alan may find my opinions - unless of course Alan and his political party seeks to curtail the freedom of speech".Sauce for the goose springs to mind Gareth, or does the "freedoms you seem to demand only apply to you?The issues that I have raised, and will continue to raise, unless prevented by the moderators of course, are those that I perceive as changing the way I have to live my life, or the changes that are forced onto us by you liberal luvvies. Treasure your freedoms, my family and millions of others have sacrificed their lives for this, If you manage to stifle me from having any opinions you and others don't agree with, it could be you tomorrow! Another comment you made regarding my confirmation of where I got the story from, do you still consider the TELEGRAPH as a racist rag? "Probaby from one of the racist rags I suspect". (your presumption!Finally Gareth, neither you nor anyone else, will ever prevent me for making a comment/judgement on any subject I choose, providing it's within the law. You seem to be a prolific poster on this Forum, what is it that you seem to revel in........scoring points?

Account suspended ● 6530d

Calm down man before you blow a fuseMy children read my comments and hear my views, both do very well at school and are in the top 2% educationally, they don't do drugs as they have been able to honestly discuss the subject and are probably more knowledgeable with regard to facts, dangers and lies on and about drugs of all sorts than you are.

Philip Walsh ● 6531d

Philip"OH, Andrew how disappointing you missed the obvious one, I called you pathetic at the end of the post. Yes I have also been guilty of being insulting but only in response to insulting or offensive postings". Ah! So it's OK for you to be insulting, for whatever reasonthen, now I know! "morons and nob heads" are now acceptable descriptions for anybody who upsets you. The context of it is irrelevant. Is it OK in your opinion, for anybody to call me racist, for having the temerity to speak about immigration, asylum etc. just as you do when defending the smoking of cannabis. Yes I am defensive of my rights to discusss anything within reasonable bounds, without the "thought police" on this forum getting on my back.I would remind those who persistently use the term "racist" at each and every opportunity, that there is a law (RRA 1976?) overseen by the Commission for Racial Equality, to prosecute anyone who breaches it. May I suggest that the people on here who believe that I have, should do their public duty and present the evidence and notify the police of the fact, who in turn will notify the CRE! I would also further assume that the moderators of this forum have a responsibility to do just that as well!Regarding the issue of the magistrate, yes I have admitted that he was wrong to walk out, notwithstanding that, he should never have been put in this position  in the first place, the defendents' barrister was I am sure, aware of the identification problem, and had far more knowledge of the law than the magistrate, yet chose to allow her to go into court with her face completely covered, he did nothing to avoid this obviously, or suggest a way of overcoming the problem. Don't be led into the trap of blaming it ALL! on the magistrate These people choose this country to stay in, as opposed to Islamic states, and I would expect, nay demand that the gutless politicians spell out this fact, that the law applies to us all regardless. Has everybody forgot about the alleged terrorist, who attempted to evade arrest, by wearing his mother-in-laws' dress and veil, with this blind acceptance that it's ok to keep your identity secret in some circumstances, is taking us down a very slippery slope. The fact that you assumed that I had missed the fact that you called me pathetic, sorry to disappoint you, but I did notice but chose to ignore it. Dare I say it, but I consider your views on cannabis, as dangerous and harmful, I only hope children do not read them! 

Account suspended ● 6531d

OH, Andrew how disappointing you missed the obvious one, I called you pathetic at the end of the post. The point I was making is that you seem to be getting defensive and confrontational with very little reason and on most threads you take part in. Yes I have also been guilty of being insulting but only in response to insulting or offensive postings. I note you have failed to include from which threads you lifted these quotes, thus losing the context in which they were made. I believe (not had time to check all my postings) that Dave implied that it was acceptable if not just, that children might be inhaling ground glass on the contaminated cannabis post, on the grounds that they should not have been using it in the first place. I am not sure at the moment what Colin said but as you put it ‘Colin obviously also upset you’, as for my reply I have read many of Colins posts.Back to the current post I agree that it is ridicules that one person should be allowed to hide their ID from the rest of us based on religious nonsense, whilst the rest of us have to be identifiable but I also agree that the Magistrate, who as you say has many years experience should know so little of the law that he did not know the correct procedure for dealing with the incident. Magistrates are supposed to be trained in law these days and in the old system even the most incompetent and bigoted of magistrates had to consult with the clerk of the court for legal guidance, so this Magistrate has nobody but himself to blame for his own ineptitude.Just for the record I am an atheist and find all the ‘One True God’ religions to be equal in their irrelevance to the real world and equal in their threat to the greater good of all mankind. Gorge W is apparently a committed Christian personally I think he should just be committed (to an asylum).

Philip Walsh ● 6531d

Dan"Well it is a bit but definitely completely barking. I think it would be a bit harsh on the nuns at Gumley House to ban all veils".I have just noticed this, late in the day I know, but I can't let you get away with this comparison of a British nun and a muslim woman in a veil.When is the last time you saw a nun with her face completely covered? And do you still believe/suspect that the Telegraph is, as you put it in your usual inimitable way "a racist rag"?You along with others,(Alan Sheerins) are so obsessed with racism, should take a reality check, and see the way this once great country is going. Every time anyone who has the temerity to post anything to do with "asylum, immigration, benefits, religion, ethnic minorities, etc, are immediately deemed to be racist, or anything they quote from is a "racist rag". Do you want to ban ALL freeedom of speech, except for you?

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Your reply to Dave, where you said:-"Dave Morrison you are a sad little nob end if ever there was one".I thought I would look up to see whether you fall into the category of "Don't do as I Do, Do as I say" brigade, who can dish it out on here, but whine when they get it back. The quote I have used, from one of your recent postings, clearly demonstrates that my perception is correct. Should you also be banned from posting?  Colin obviously also upset you,so you replied by saying:-"As usual Colin your comments are as intelligent as one might expect from a moron".

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Andrew can you not discuss anything with out resorting to insults, I am surprised you are still being allowed to post.Every time you are on the tw8 or w4 websites its the same immature crap ' luvvy, little boy, sonny the last one you used on me the other day on the w4 site. I AM 48 YEARS OLD IN SEPTEMBER. I realise that to you I may be young but 'sonny', I'm sorry that, like you is just pathetic.

Philip Walsh ● 6534d

"If this is racist I don't care this country will soon be run under Shia law."Well it is a bit but definitely completely barking. I think it would be a bit harsh on the nuns at Gumley House to ban all veils.Presumably you mean sharia law?

Dan Evans ● 6545d

Silly Boy/Luvvy

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AndrewIt seems that you are losing the plot a bit my dear old chap.

Gareth Evans ● 6545d

I appreciate that you have proved to me, that you are a teeny bit slow Gaz. If you recall they were among the topics that I had raised on this forum, in which you as a "whippersnapper" had put your "luvvy" views on. I should have a think about your mind, because like brains you are surely lacking in both. By the way are you going to give your leftie views on the Trevor McDonalds "Tonight" programme", this government, like you got it's figures wrong by 500%, I expect you will have a comment on the views expressed? Will you let us/me know?I think a spell in the army would liven you up a bit, but on reflection you would run home to mummy within the week, er! no, sooner than that methinks!By the way, do you think that the Telegraph is a racist rag, you and Alan Sheerins seemed to think so, when I posted about the magistrate, and like you he has kept very quiet about it, I wonder why?

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Andrew I tried but my mind thankfully works differently from yours, I can't link social housing and a magistrate walking out of court. Over to you old man.

Gareth Evans ● 6546d

Gareth luvvy"As for the bigotry, just about every posting you put up". Is this the best you can do, lets have specifics. Surely even with your tiny brain you could manage something relevant!"Even from you I can't understand how you can draw a link between social housing and a magistrate walking out of court".Come on Gareth..........try. PSYou have been a busy little Bee today haven't you? Now don't forget to finish your homework there's a good boy!

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AndrewPlease re-read your earlier posting because it is you who jumped to the wrong conclusion when you posted about "instead of sacking him" in relation to the magistrate. He has not been sacked and there is an investigation going on. Looks very much like me that you jumped the gun and came to the wrong conclusion so please don't preach to others what you are unwilling to practice yourself.

Gareth Evans ● 6547d

AndrewThere are two issues here. One of the veil and the other of the magistrate negating his duty in walking out. If the magistrate had been a bit more savvy, he would have handled the case better and the case would not have gone the way it has. Then again, these are the type of issues you seem to revel in so enjoy it but please do remember that there are two issues. By the way, not all muslim women wear a veil so don't make out that the wearing of a veil is bringing ruin on this country because it is not.

Gareth Evans ● 6547d

AndrewEven from you I can't understand how you can draw a link between social housing and a magistrate walking out of court.As for the bigotry, just about every posting you put up.

Gareth Evans ● 6547d

GarethI almost forgot about this. It clearly demonstrates how you and others jump to wrong conclusions, blinded by luvvy doctrine I guess? I thought that you always got it right, what happened?"[Probaby] from one of the racist rags I suspect".Alan Sheerins got it wrong as well, but that's par for the course for you two. I suppose the Telegraph is a "racist rag" because it chose to report it is it? Can I suggest that the pair of you read it and digest it, then you may just get an idea of what is happening to this once great country! We are changing our laws on the hoof!Will further derogatory comments be forthcoming from either of you about this slur.Telegraph. co.ukNews Magistrate walks out over Muslim woman's veil 30/06/2007 00:01AM BST "Magistrate walks out over Muslim woman's veil. A magistrate is facing an inquiry after refusing to deal with a defendant wearing a full Muslim veil, the Judiciary of England and Wales said yesterday. Ian Murray walked out of the case at Manchester magistrates' ...read"  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/30/nveil130.xmlNews

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There you go again with your "luvvy speak" little man. I have been called worse than that in my time, so I won't be too bothered by your left wing comments, to try and stifle any debate. The established facts on social housing will be exposed when Trevor Macdonalds' programme is broadcast next Monday, but I suppose your tiny liberal indoctrinated mind won't allow you to come to terms with it. And you won't admit it will you, that you got it wrong again. I think you have shown yourself to be a contemptible little man (boy) (luvvy) Do you like that term also. I suppose you are going to hit me with your handbag next? Just as a matter of record explain where I have displayed bigotry?

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AndrewNo, I meant “us” as in those people reading and contributing to the forum and not just “me” in particular. Is it ok with you that I should ask you to expose the failings in your argument seeing that you posted in an untrue statement on a public forum? You could not validate a statement you previously posted and that for me succinctly sums you up as an ignorant old boy. Do you like that term? I sincerely hope so seeing that you feel justified in using what some consider to be derogatory terms against others. In all honesty, I did not feel that you were going to be able to confirm the true position because as you often do, you do not allow established facts to get in the way of the majority of your hatred filled postings. Then again, being someone who seems to relish attacking anyone who is not like yourself and who does not conform to your ideal of society, it was hardly a surprise Yet again you are contributing to the forum from a position of ignorance with your bigoted ways.

Gareth Evans ● 6547d

All veils should be banned, one religion is trying to dominate this country by force and by numbers go to Bradford and places like that in the north where I go on a regular basis and see how many kids are in each family, we should do what China has done and limit it to one kid per family. And a high percent of young women are made to wear the veil.If this is racist I don't care this country will soon be run under Shia law.

Helen Fogarth ● 6547d

Gareth"So you can confirm for [us] that the magistrate in this case was sacked"?  First who do you mean by "us"? Don't you mean "me"? andNo I can't, but considering the religion of the defendent they will crucify him..........you would wish that, being a "luvvy" Gareth wouldn't you, sensitivity and all that etc etc. I came to this conclusion when recalling similar incidents from the past.

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Mr SheerinsUnaccustomed as you obviously are in answering questions that are put to you, I have put a question to you after you referred to a "racist rag" that this story had come from. I forgot to mention where I got it from. It was in fact from the Telegraph web site, ill put the link for you to read it for yourself, but I'll give a shade of odds that you will as per usual keep quiet!Telegraph. co.ukNews Magistrate walks out over Muslim woman's veil 30/06/2007 00:01AM BST Magistrate walks out over Muslim woman's veil. A magistrate is facing an inquiry after refusing to deal with a defendant wearing a full Muslim veil, the Judiciary of England and Wales said yesterday. Ian Murray walked out of the case at Manchester magistrates' ...read  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/30/nveil130.xmlFinally dispense with this racist crap, that seems to occupy your every thought, and discuss it, also not forgetting "You know who", where both initials as a clue are the same AK and AK!! 

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"jumping to conclusions" An amazingly ironic thought from you of all people Andrew that I have jumped to a conclusion. Was it not you who in a posting dated 30/6/2007 at 12.33 came out with "instead of sacking him". I have not read anywhere that the magistrate has indeed been sacked. But then again, I can only assume that you jumped to that conclusion all by yourself. I think that you'll find that the position of the magistrate in this case has been outlined elsewhere.

Gareth Evans ● 6547d

Gareth"Probaby from one of the racist rags I suspect".Your suspicious mind is wrong yet again, I got my information from the Telegraph website. Try it some time!Telegraph. co.ukNews Magistrate walks out over Muslim woman's veil 30/06/2007 00:01AM BST Magistrate walks out over Muslim woman's veil. A magistrate is facing an inquiry after refusing to deal with a defendant wearing a full Muslim veil, the Judiciary of England and Wales said yesterday. Ian Murray walked out of the case at Manchester magistrates' ...read  http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/06/30/nveil130.xmlYou and your 'oppo should stop jumping to conclusions, and referring to every topic concerning ethnic minorities as racist! It cuts no ice with me, and frankly it's becoming boring.

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Richard Many thanks for clarifying the correct position.

Gareth Evans ● 6547d

"So you can confirm for us that the magistrate in this case was sacked?"No! If you look at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/manchester/6254506.stm , you'll see that IF a complaint is raised against his conduct, he will automatically face an internal investigation, and that is the sole basis, as far as I can see, for reports that he may face disciplinary action.The BBC report said that he "agrees that he acted unwisely in disqualifying himself without giving reasons, and acknowledges that he should have sought the advice of his legal advisor in court, and discussed the provisions of the national guidelines with his colleagues on the bench, before taking action."According to another BBC report, the guidelines say that decisions should be made on each case and veils should not interfere with the administration of justice.  It sounds to me as if the magistrate was right to be concerned, but flouncing out of the court was not the right way to go about it.

Richard Jennings ● 6547d

Probaby from one of the racist rags I suspect.

Gareth Evans ● 6548d

So you can confirm for us that the magistrate in this case was sacked?

Gareth Evans ● 6548d

It is a case of identification and if requested then the veil should be removed, I have no idea if this is true or just an urban legend - whatever it is, the fact is no-one is above the law in this land or any other.

Vanessa Smith ● 6548d

Mr SheerinsWhat bloody planet are you on. Do you see racism in your sleep? Do you really believe that there is no need to, especially in the present climate, to be able to be identified. Perhaps you will let us know whether is is necessary for a magistrate to know who he/she is trying?Why do you see matters of religion as racist?Hopefully, you may answer this question, rather than ignore it like you continually do, when questioned by the ICG regarding Ann K££NS covent garden pad! Over to you!

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Is there a law that requires someone to take a veil off in court to be identified? Is the reprot really true or did the report come from one of the racist rags that try to pass themselves off as newspapers?

Alan Sheerins ● 6548d

Yes I suppose he could/should have stayed put, and invoked the contempt of court Act. But can you imagine the furore it would cause if she had been made to take it off. I was under the impression, that our laws applied to everyone, no matter what their religious or ethnic background is! And instead of sacking him, remind her brief that this is the law of the land, and to advise his client of this fact. If he does complain, what would the grounds for it be? Is there now to be different interpretations of the law for some?

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Exactly.

Vanessa Smith ● 6548d

One has to wonder why the magistrate did not invoke the Contempt of Court Act 1981 rather than walking out on a case.

Gareth Evans ● 6548d

?!

Sarah Felstead ● 6548d