Forum Topic

Cannabis and the bigger department more money scam.

According to a revue of data concerning cannabis and mental illness a claim is being made that the young who smoke cannabis are up to 40 times more likely develop mental illness. This appears to be the same data Lady Runciman (who headed the inquiry that led to down grading) described in yesterdays Standard as unscientific and anecdotal.

Philip Walsh ● 6518d16 Comments

Andrew if you wish to refrain from poting replies to my posts please feel free as I have said befor you are never likely to to change your view to one of enlightened reality (the drug laws don't/won't work). I for my part have only responded to your off thread comments on other threads to do with other topics.

Philip Walsh ● 6512d

Philip"Andrew, Obviously some of your views upset people, which is why you get the kind of responses you do".I keep on asking which particular views that I have written about on here, are so upsetting. Surely the biggest insult that you can give anybody is to refer to them as a "racist bigot" without saying why?Why can't you and others respond to this, surely if I have been that offensive, you or others could find something to substantiate these accusations. I have requested on two occasions for the person who said this to tell me why he wants me to refrain from commenting on certain topics when he himself complained and has said in the past;Quote"I think that Alan forgets that I am a taxpayer and a member of society. As such I have an absolute right to my opinions, irrespective of how palatable or unpalatable Alan may find my opinions - unless of course Alan and his political party seeks to curtail the freedom of speech". So you see Phil, this gentlemen wants' the freedom of speech for himself, no matter that what he say's may be "unpalatable", but when I want the same (allegedly) he objects. Thats his version of equality, so beware of these people, they speak with forked tongue. If eventually he decides to respond (which I doubt) perhaps he could let us know which topics he considers to be unpalatable? The moderators obviously don't share yours and others views, otherwise I wouldn't be on here now would I?  You and I are never going to agree on the question of cannabis, so let us drop any further comments to each other about cannabis, so as not to bore the pants off everyone!

Account suspended ● 6513d

Andrew, Obviously some of your views upset people, which is why you get the kind of responses you do.I admit to calling you a drugs fascist and that is do with the fact that you are so disproportionate in you views over cannabis  and the relative harm levels in comparison to other drugs.I do not claim that 'my' experts are right or that the government’s experts are wrong. For one they are not 'my' experts they are independent unlike the governments who are dependent. The purpose of bringing forward these other views is an attempt to bring rationality to the debate in an attempt to show that although  there is conflicting evidence only one side is being aired.My long term interest in this subject is the only reason I know of these studies, otherwise I would be as ignorant of the 'facts' as the majority of the nation.In the late 70's a researcher called Nasar made the claim that he had proven that cannabis had caused brain damage to monkeys in a laboratory experiment. This was held up as proof positive by the American Government at the time the rest of the west followed blindly, believing the 'facts'. Some time later the details of the said experiment came out.Nasar had put the monkeys in a glass airtight room/tank. He proceeded to remove all the oxygen from the room and then filled the room with cannabis smoke. The monkeys not surprisingly died, they were then dissected and the brain damage found, the case was presented as proven.It does not take a brilliant mind to work out that the brain damage was exactly what you would get from suffocation the experiment was shown as a sham.This has for years been the level of 'proof' behind many a claim.Have any of you actually seen a copy of any of the reports as opposed to just what you have read in the press, I suspect not and recommend you do!

Philip Walsh ● 6513d

I agree Mike.The point I was trying to make was that smoking cannabis excessively,particularly skunk,CAN(not WILL) lead to mental health problems in some people and that it is a great de-motivator and knackers short term memory and if you do have mh diff. it is very unlikely to help you.These would seem like pretty obvious statements,although some seem to thing I am having a morality fuelled pop at their life styles.I am not,I am no saint myself,but I do not have any illusions that there are no dandgers involved,particularly in the young starting to smokle this stuff too young .

Keith Iddon ● 6514d

MickA very well presented and polite argument, and the good reasons you had personaly for refusing to smoke tobacco or cannabis. My son holds similar views (thank God!).

Account suspended ● 6514d

Phil"Andrew your willingness to believe in the 'facts' as presented by the likes of the Telegraph continues to amaze me".Was it not you, when I said that I had been called a "racist bigot" and other unsavoury remarks on this forum, said that "they all can't be wrong can they!" I am applying exactly the same logic to the cannabis question! In other words, can all of the scientists, psychiatrists, and other eminent well respected professors all be wrong, and those that you quote as always right!By the way, not one of you, who have suggested that I am a racist bigot, have,in spite of me offering £20 to a charity of your choice, informing the CRE (because it is an offence) or the local police, for them to be taking the appropriate action, have produced any evidence whatsoever. I am still posting my views,and will continue to do so, and I must assume that the moderators, do not see my points of view, in the same way that you all do, or otherwise they would, and indeed should censor them, and ban me from the forum....agreed? As I have said many times, I work (but not recently)as a volunteer and are security vetted to the same degree as a police officer. If the evidence that you and others present is upheld, I will give this undertaking; 1. An apology to all who use this forum.2. To resign from my voluntary work3. Pay the £20 as statedOne "person" in answer to a post he made said;"I think that Alan forgets that I am a taxpayer and a member of society. As such I have an absolute right to my opinions, irrespective of how palatable or unpalatable Alan may find my opinions - unless of course Alan and his political party seeks to curtail the freedom of speech".I asked him if this applied to me also, but thus far there has been no response, but he had the gall to insult me because of my views....some equality there then!Another person said, (because he wanted to see an issue he could use, to suggest that I was colour prejudiced as well as a racist);"Why should the colour of a person's skin have anything to do with their entitlement to housing"?He did however apologise later!So! can I suggest that in future, anyone suggesting that I am a racist, have the good grace to give examples. And Mr Sheerins to learn, not to mix up issues of religion with race

Account suspended ● 6514d

Mike I agree, only through full legalisation will the fact's be uncovered just as they have been in the cases of tobacco and Alcohol. The current situation of criminalisation of both the young and the old, the physically ill and the well, the sane and the mentally ill is a nonsense.Yes I am an advocate for legalisation but I am not an apologist or comparable to the tame scientists of any industry. I make my own money and hold my own views and have endured nearly forty years of abuse by the local law enforcement beause of the way I choose to live my life.I would like to ask one question of you. How many of my posts have you read to form your opinion of me and my stance

Philip Walsh ● 6514d

Philip wrote: "I have been studying this issue all my life, I work in the worldwide cannabis industry and actively peruse relevant info."The problem is Philip, listening to you is a little like listening to F.O.R.E.S.T. and the tame, company employed "scientists" of the pro tobacco industry lobby. You are a committed advocate of cannabis and, one gets the feeling that no matter what the level of evidence was, you would still take exactly the same pro-cannabis stance. I have never (like so many of our cabinet ministers and MP's) smoked cannabis - not because I had any great moral objections to it as a teenager when many of my friends tried it, but mainly because my parents both smoked heavily and that put me off smoking anything for life!I also come down on the side of legalisation and regulation of currently illegal drugs. I do not however, shut my eyes to the possible dangers to young people from cannabis use, which is why I would prefer to see more realistic drug education for young people rather than a pointless and ineffective knee-jerk reaction from government by reclassifying it. The classification system is clearly nonsensical and should be scrapped completely.

Mick Brent ● 6514d

Andrew your willingness to believe in the 'facts' as presented by the likes of the Telegraph continues to amaze me.What you are failing to understand is that not so much as one empirical fact or one scientifically provable point exists in these studies. I do not say that there is no evidence, only that it is anecdotal and being blown out of proportion by the press.Mental illness unlike brain damage is something one can get over just like any other form of illness.The numbers affected by the varied types/levels of claimed cannabis induced psychosis are very small in comparison to those that drink alcohol and suffer varying degrees of real brain damage as a result.In the late 70's& early 80's studies were done of the Coptic Christian (Rastafarian) communities in both Jamaica and Costa Rico. No significant deviation in the figure of mental health problems in comparison to the American norm was apparent.It is part of the Coptic Christian faith to smoke lots of neat cannabis as an aid to communion with God. The strength of the cannabis grown is comparable with average skunk and the quantities consumed on a daily basis would have been much higher than the amounts consumed by most of the people in these studies. This leaves the question; are we back to racial overtones in this reporting?We would all like a little more clarity in the reporting and a little less contrived scaremongering.I know you have obvious disdain for my views but the real difference between you and I is the fact that I have been studying this issue all my life, I work in the worldwide cannabis industry and actively peruse relevant info. You on the other hand form your opinion from picking up a news rag and believing that the small amount of info, which is regularly rehashed as new news, is the full and complete picture.

Philip Walsh ● 6514d

Keith"They would probably have to see skunk zombies walking around everywhere before they thought their might be a problem"Evedn then, they would probably blame it on something else. My Grandfather smoked shag tobacco all of his life, and died in his sleep aged 87. My mother (bless her) was also a heavy smoker, and died, as I have said before, of lung cancer. Surely the same would apply to cannabis, some will smoke it daily, with no problems, while others are out of their heads. It is pointless debating it Keith, because whatever you say, they won't be convinced whatever the evidence."Nil Iligitimo Carborundum Sub" is my motto!

Account suspended ● 6515d

Don't know if anyone saw this in today's paper - a study has managed to isolate the gene that causes someone to be left-handed, it also showed there is also a chance that you could develop schizophrenia if you are a left - hooker, but of course that doesn't apply to everyone. Now when will someone suggest we go back to the bad old days and tie hands behind backs and make left-handers write with their right hands to prevent this from ever happening? The problem I have with all these 'studies' - the phone masts, left hookers and cannabis smokers is that every study comes up with something different - which indicates to me no-one actually knows anything for sure! It's pure speculation.

Vanessa Smith ● 6515d

Keith, if you had read any of my posts you would know I was smoking strong cannabis from the age of ten, many of my 8 brothers have smoked all their lives and so have most of my friends. I have never met anyone who has any mental health problems they did not have before they started smoking. I can’t say the same for alcohol can you.The myth of Marijuana madness first came about in the 1920's.Rudolf Hurst furious at being kicked out of Mexico by Sancho Panzer and his dope smoking army and the loss of 200 thousand hectare of spruce pine forest that he intended to turn into paper for his news presses, started a hate campaign against black and Hispanic users of cannabis. All because the Mexican troops marched while singing a song called le carracus (not sure about the spelling). Anyway it’s a song about how a Mexican peasant Soldier takes time out from a battle to have a joint.A man called Anslinger then went on to use it as the reason America lost the Mexican war. He told the Senate that Cannabis turns blacks and Hispanics into drug crazed killers within ten days of first smoking it.Forty odd tears later he told the Senate cannabis was turning American soldiers into pacifists as an excuse for America losing the Vietnam War, presumably not the black and Hispanic ones.The whole thing was born from greed, lies, revenge, and racial hatred and the current 'facts' are only statistics and opinions based on unscientific and anecdotal studies and that, is a 'fact'!With the current disproportional press, is it really such a wonder people such as Venessa and I are sceptical?

Philip Walsh ● 6515d

Sorry Mick...possibly too 'anecdotal'for our resident sceptics.They would probably have to see skunk zombies walking around everywhere before they thought their might be a problem.

Keith Iddon ● 6518d

I know personally several young people who had obsessive cannabis habits from the ages of 14 to 19 and who now suffer from paranoid schizophrenia. Possibly coincidence, but I don't actually think so.

Mick Brent ● 6518d

Do either of you know anyone who has smoked skunk for a few years?Do you actually know anyone who has been positively affected by skunk?Would you like your kids skinning it up first thing in the morning,before going to work?Where is your'evidence' to say it is harmless?

Keith Iddon ● 6518d

This all seems to be a bit like the arguments about mobile 'phone masts - get an "expert" - get an opinion. I suspect the truth is they haven't a clue and just make it up as they go along, depending on what's flavour of the month.

Vanessa Smith ● 6518d