Forum Topic

Can someone explain this to me?

Why are two local estate agents, Milestone and the dreaded Foxtons, being allowed to stick their boards up all around this area advertising a school fair? I think the Education Dept. ought to explain a few things to schools who no doubt are very pleased to get free advertising. But why should these sharks get away with it? They make enough money to pay for advertising in a legitimate way and not festoon our streets with their unsightly boards.

Vanessa Smith ● 6530d29 Comments

I must admit to being amazed that you are pursuing this, I thought initially you had raised it unaware that this was an important source of funds for local schools. I am not sure where you get the idea that there are large pools of reserves available for local schools but if you talk to parents and staff you will be made aware that we are currently living in a time of acute financial constraint for most of our local places of education. This is why parents put so much time and effort into raising money in this way and it will be galling for them to see this attempt to undermine them. I hope that planning enforcement officers at Hounslow Council have the common sense to file this particular complaint in the circular file under the desk.Your attitude seems doubly bizarre given that in another thread you are condemning Hounslow Council for enforcing parking regulations. Why does your maxim "Either we have regulations, rules, laws, which we should abide by or we don't " not apply in that case also? The second reason your position is downright strange is that Brentford is littered with illegal flyboards by estate agents which are either outside properties that have long been taken off the market or blocks of flats where they have no property for sale. Despite the fact there is no community benefit from these signs and they quite clearly are illegal you ignore them to focus on the ones that are helping local children get a better education. I am at a loss to see what your motivations are in this case or what you are hoping to achieve other than stymie the good work of other people.

Dan Evans ● 6483d

Sorry  - but I have made enquiries and this practice is contravening the advertising regulations. I really don't understand why everyone thinks it's perfectly O.K. to turn a blind-eye on the basis this helps schools. After all a lot of us would be the first to complain (and do) when the Police turn a blind eye to some petty offences, and also when people build large buildings next door that they haven't bothered to get planning permission for, etc. etc. Either we have regulations, rules, laws, which we should abide by or we don't. The problem always was and will be -give them an inch and they'll take a mile. It is also the case that the primary schools are sitting on large reserves at the moment, so I wouldn't run away with the idea that they're all strapped for cash. This is not about schools it's about estate agents taking the p*** out of the regulations and I think the schools too, just think how that much publicity would cost estate agents if they had to use conventional forms of advertising.

Vanessa Smith ● 6485d

I think Kevin is actually right both about the specifics of this case and in general. Parliament may have made a law concerning estate agents display boards but how that law is interpreted is decided by a judge based on precedent. As there is no precedent in this instance then the Common Law principle that anything that isn't specifically forbidden is allowable would apply. As has been pointed out earlier there is widespread non-adherence to the regulations by estate agents when it comes to displaying signs. If people are unhappy about the number of estate agents' boards they should start by complaining about this. Bear in mind that a board can only remain up for two weeks after a property is sold or let and only two agents boards are allowed outside each property and they should be back to back. What would be unforgiveable if people ignored this clear abuse and started making a fuss about boards which help raise much need funds for schools.

Dan Evans ● 6494d

"I don't understand it either but the committee Chair was informed by the head of the School we cant call it a Halloween Disco nor have a Halloween Theme"Good grief!  :-(

Sarah Felstead ● 6494d

Quite wrong Kevin - law are made both by precedent (judges) and parliament.  So if there are rules laid down onthe use of advertising boards by Estate Agents then that is likely to be the result of parliamentary law.  I have to say this is a practice which has spread and is certainly seen nowadays everywhere

Patricia Nicholas ● 6494d

Hi LynnI don't understand it either but the committee Chair was informed by the head of the School we cant call it a Halloween Disco nor have a Halloween Theme..stupid i say as Halloween has been celebrated every year by kids for years even i did trick or treating in the 70'sI would like to understand this aswell.

Simon Anderson ● 6495d

"I say this as at Smallberrygreen they are very strict with things for example we are having a Disco on Friday 2nd November but we are NOT allowed to call it a Halloween Disco."It wouldn't be illegal to call it a Halloween Disco so if, as Simon says, this is due to political correctness then THIS is what everyone should be getting hot under the collar about!

Lynn Clark ● 6495d

No-one is 'whining' - but how many people spend their time whingeing in this country about the low standards of respect,courtesy and behaviour especially among the young? A lot is the answer - well I also think that if we can turn a blind eye to say - planning permission, road traffic laws and many other seemingly petty transgressions then that is not a good example no matter how minor you may consider these things. Just because this involves schools doesn't also make it O.K., that is why clarification is needed, as for the rises that councillors have given themselves that is another argument altogether, which is a total red herring. I think you may find that there are regulations that cover advertisements.

Vanessa Smith ● 6496d

IMHO i feel its up to the parents or locals if they want a board to go up in there garden.Last year the school managed to get well over 40 locals/parents to place a board up and the school got over £600 from the estate agency which went into making a new garden for the school and we have just purchased 4 buddy benches for the kids.Schools have to abide by the law, at 1 of our meetings last month we were coming up with ideas on fund raising for the school but some of them were not approved like:Video/DVD weekend Hire - Copyright etcSponsor Cycle - Health and Safetyeven our disco the parents have to be with the children or they cant attend so all our fundraising events have to be approved by the Head of the school and the Notice Boards have been approved and Smallberry have done it before so i think it will be OK.But i totally agree with you though!!

Simon Anderson ● 6496d

Personally what I find 'extremely ugly' is that people are knocking the efforts of members of the community who are trying to improve the standard of education for local children whilst the Council is awarding itself big pay rises and wasting money on rebranding. If they are going to ban this valuable fund raising method then perhaps the will compensate local schools for the lost revenue by rethinking their spending priorities and putting more into education so parents don't have to make up the shortfall.Simon, nothing is illegal in this country until a judge has said it is so there is absolutely no problem whatsoever with taking money from estate agents to put up boards and raise funds for your kid's school. Don't let a bunch of whiners put you off doing the right thing.

Andy Jones ● 6496d

I totally agree Vanessa and as secretary of the School Committee i will definitely check on this.As to your other question Apparently its politically in correct or something.

Simon Anderson ● 6496d

Schools wouldn't necessarily know I don't think, but I think this whole business should be clarified as Paul said and I agree - the street scene is hardly improved by a forest of estate agents boards. If it's permissable fine, we'll have to live with it, if not, then before it gets out of hand then the schools ought to know the correct procedures. By the way - what's wrong with a Hallowe'en disco?

Vanessa Smith ● 6496d

If it is Illegal then the Schools wouldn't do it surely?I say this as at Smallberrygreen they are very strict with things for example we are having a Disco on Friday 2nd November but we are NOT allowed to call it a Halloween Disco.I would like to know if its illegal though so i can inform Smallberrygreen.

Simon Anderson ● 6496d

Aren't the boards technically advertising the school's event and then the fact that it is sponsored by an estate agent. Does LBH have by-laws regards putting boards in private gardens if they are not classed as estate agency boards which I presume these aren't.

Neil Chippendale ● 6497d

Thank-you Paul, I also think that it is not entirely legal, I do remember some years ago legislation came in that stopped Estate Agents from putting up multiple boards on a property. I suspect the legislation may have changed but I'll bet a pound to a penny this sticking boards up all over the place on the pretext of helping schools is sailing very close to the wind. Perhaps you could make some enquiries?

Vanessa Smith ● 6497d

Although it would raise funds which I`m sure are much needed,it would in my opinion make the local streets extremely ugly.

Paul Fisher ● 6497d

DanYou could be right if Steve can provide me with which estate agents offer £25 i can contact themThanks Dan

Simon Anderson ● 6497d

Simon, did you see Steve's post in which he says agents are giving £25 per board in Richmond? It might be worth shopping around a bit to see if someone will give you more than £15. Or maybe £15 is the going rate for this area!

Dan Evans ● 6497d

I was at our School Parents meeting yesterday (Smallberrygreen.I was given the job to contact an estate agents to sponsor our winter fair.I contacted the estate agents and this is how it works:The estate agent will sponsor the school event but you have to get at least 40 people to place boards up in there garden to be able to get the money per board in this case £15.00 each board so to start you will get £600+the boards state the estate agents sponsor the event, time and place but you have to provide the Agency the names and places where the boards go.Its a great way for schools to raise alot more money which goes back into providing things for the school.Last year we raised enough money to buy 4 Buddy benches for the playground.

Simon Anderson ● 6497d

Indeed this has been going on for years. My wife's school in Richmond does it regularly. Very simply if a school is having a fair or event and wants free advertising it asks the parents of all its pupils if they are prepared to have an estate agents sign on their property. Estate Agents who have easy, cheap and quick access to sign-printing, pay the school £25 per sign they are allowed to place. Agreed,  the signs should be removed promptly but that would be a matter between the owner of the property and the estate agent. The schools raise huge sums towards their event from the £25 per sign, the agents get their advertising and the general public who may not have links to the school are made aware of the event and may pop in and spend some money at the event. All are winners except of course those of us who get cheesed off by seeing all these estate agents signs around the place.

Steve Taylor ● 6525d

That was a coincidence Edward!  A very pleasant road indeed..along which Joan Perry's grandparents lived once.In fairness to Foxton's their signpost can hardly be said to be "over the top".

Jim Lawes ● 6525d

Jim,Nice photo of my son's fence the light brown one on the right!

Edward Fitzgerald ● 6525d

I ventured into the Vanessastan part of Isleworth today, on my way back from a delivery, and sought to see for myself what all the fuss was about.  Agreed that was a brave thing to do!!Street after street seemed to be devoid of "dreaded" estate agents boards...perhaps because its mainly a Council Estate..and then, all of a sudden, amongst the neat pictureque front gardens in Crane Avenue a  charitable pair was found.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hardly offensive in my view..but then no doubt when Tesco's expands it's estate agency arm..the type of boards in the pipeline might dismay us all!!In the meantime, I'm more digusted by the scalleywags in Vanessaland who leave Tesco trolleys all over the place!----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim Lawes ● 6525d

'Schools generally have a 'captive audience' for their activities so I think the value of these boards to the school are questionable.'Ah, things become clear now. Vanessa, the agents pay parents at the school to put up these boards. As much as £25 a time. The promotion of the event is a secondary consideration. Now that you are aware of this surely you can't object to this practice?

Dan Evans ● 6526d

Vanessa, see my other post in this thread. There is no question of the value of these boards for local schools. I think agents are being very responsible in funnelling back some of their profits in the community in this way. Of course boards should be removed promptly when the event being promoted is over. Once when such a board was on my road a week after the event I contacted the agent and it was removed the next day. Why not just do the same?

Mike Hardacre ● 6526d

A: I didn't say I was going to make an official complaint -I was asking if someone could tell me what was going on as this does seem to be coming more and more prevalent. It wouldn't be Trading Standards anyway.B: I believe that Estate Agents legitimate 'For Sale' boards are already covered by regulation.C: I consider estate agents should show some responsibility - although that's probably a contradiction in terms where they're concerned, I just think seeing these boards plastered everywhere for weeks on end is a p*** take. They're not so quick to remove them after the event - and why should they? It's free advertising. Schools generally have a 'captive audience' for their activities so I think the value of these boards to the school are questionable.

Vanessa Smith ● 6526d

Anyone who has done work for PTA fundraising will tell you that a significant proportion of money raised for local schools comes from this source. In addition the amount of effort that goes into getting it is much less than other ways of raising money. Estate agents should be commended for doing this not criticised and you are doing a disservice to local education by given some of them an excuse not to make a contribution in this way. Of course boards should be removed promptly after the event but given this I think this fund-raising method should be applauded. I haven't seen any of the boards you refer to but if I do I will post up details of the events being promoted to counter the negative response so far.

Mike Hardacre ● 6526d

It possibly is a breach of some regulation to do this but it is a very valuable source of funds for local schools.  This method can raise a four figure sum which goes back into education. This seems to me a good thing. If you are generally concerned report the matter to the agency at the Council responsible (Trading Standards?). However it seems strange that whilst the area is littered with flyboarding by estate agents that someone should ignore this but complain about boards which are raising money for education. Which school's boards are you going to complain about?

Dan Evans ● 6529d

If you are right and the schools are encouraging this then they need to check the legalities regarding street advertising, whilst I have every sympathy with the schools, I'm not sure this is the right way to get publicity.

Vanessa Smith ● 6530d

School Go To them to ask them to do it.The estate agents Don't Charge but I suppose its Free Advertising For them.Also i think its unfair that there Name is in Bigger Letters etc then the Ad to promote the School Event!!

Simon Anderson ● 6530d