Forum Topic

Lionel Road Stadium for Brentford

Excellent news on the front page of this site. Hopefully the plans can be put into effect before the decline on the playing field results in the club losing its league status.I wasn't too enthusiastic about the appointment of Terry Butcher but my impression is that a section of the crowd have the scent of blood just like they did with Rosenior. This is clearly having a bad effect on the team and it might be helpful if people realised that at this point showing support would be a good thing.Interesting also to see the reference to rugby being played at the ground - London Welsh and London Wasps are the obvious candidates. It would be brilliant to have the latter especially.

Dan Evans ● 6747d51 Comments

Hardly a surprise, they got all the changes they wanted with GWQ on the back of the promise. They cannot afford to finish GWQ as they are in financial trouble like most other companies.One day authorities will wake up to these techniques, Remember Richmond Ice rink?Deliver the promises first then let them have their cake.

Anthony Waller ● 5600d

Barratts have pulled out of the deal to build the new stadium. BFC are back to square one.http://www.brentfordfc.co.uk/page/LatestNews/0,,10421~2277482,00.html

Neil Chippendale ● 5600d

Don't worry, Google helped. :)

Anneberth Lux ● 6551d

Cool! I didn't know about that. Thank you.

Anneberth Lux ● 6551d

Oh dear - that's me banned from town - spelt Brentford wrong... Doh !www.brentfordcc.org.uk

Stephen Browne ● 6551d

The next lot of documents from the last meeting is due out anytime now, but until then you can read or download all the meeting notes from the Lionel Road Liaison Group on the Brentford Community Council website:www.brentfordcc.org.uk

Stephen Browne ● 6551d

AnneberthOf course one can never say never, but there are no current plans that I'm aware of to stage musical events and this has not been mentioned during discussions.  If at some point in the future the organisers did wish to hold such events this would be the subject of a separate application. Under planning law an application could not be rejected on the basis of what a facility might or might be used for at some unspecified future time, the application could only be considered on its merits as it stands.The "extra" activities which are currently under consideration include such things as a hotel, conference facilities, youth and/or educational activity, a health or fitness centre and a possible groundshare with a local rugby club.

Phil Andrews ● 6551d

So is it fair to assume then that football is not the primary reason for the stadium, and that instead the business plan has to be to attract major events and gigs to the site. For the residents of the area the occasional football game will be the least of our problems. Unless the stadium is actually a roofed arena we will be forced to listen to all the gigs played there, whether we like who's on stage or not. As if the planes weren't enough...I would also argue that the western end of Chiswick/eastern end of Brentford is already under extreme traffic pressure from the confluence M4/A4 & North/South Circular plus criss-crossing railway and overground tube lines. We don't need another traffic "improvement".

Anneberth Lux ● 6551d

If current transport infrastructure can't cope with 20,000 people then it could always be improved but even assuming that Brentford enter a new golden era the amount of times the stadium would be even half full will be pretty limited.

Andy Jones ● 6551d

I take your point and I am sure that Brentford fans and opponents are a generally gentle, well behaved lot, and that they have been good neighbours for many years. I am spooked by the size of the planned development, which is far in excess of anything we have in the area and really doesn't compare with the current stadium at all. I'll chase those in the know to share their knowledge with us. Thanks for being so helpful.

Anneberth Lux ● 6564d

AnneberthMost of us have nightmares about Barry Manilow concerts at some time or another.Councillor Matt Harmer lives in the immediate vicinity of Braemar Road, the club's current site, and he might be able to give you an idea of how many football fans have urinated in his garden since he moved in (I did once, during the local election campaign, but it was kind of a political statement more than anything else).What's more anybody who uses a Brentford defeat as an excuse for getting violently drunk must already be in the advanced stages of alcoholic poisoning by now.But being serious now just for one moment, I honestly do not think the picture you paint is remotely close to being an accurate one.  Soccer yobbery largely belongs to the '70s and early '80s. Brentford is a good, family-centred, community club.  Yes, there have been rare occasions when visiting fans have caused minor difficulties but they tend to arrive and depart in organised groups and getting this logistical side of the operation right will all be part of the process which will be consulted upon.The most telling fact in all of this for me is that the residents living around Brentford Football Club's current ground (and bear in mind the current site is far more residential that the proposed venue at Lionel Road) regard it as a good neighbour and don't want to see it leave.  This would be a strange attitude to take if their cars were keyed or their gardens defiled after matches.

Phil Andrews ● 6564d

Thanks. Have asked over on Chiswick who on earth that would be. I have nightmares of a full concert of Barry Manilow, or 50 Cent, or whatever else I don't like listening to wafting across my world for hours on end. Or angry, drunk fans of a losing visiting team venting their frustration on the area on the way back to the tube; using front gardens as pissoirs and keying cars they don't like. This will be a huge change to the bit of London I signed up to, and I although it's only at consultation stage at the moment it sounds very much like a done deal. The financial advantages for the council for one - getting rid of the dead weight that is the Fountain Centre, with it's need for a huge update or closure, to name but one - are so great that I fear we locals will easily get overruled.

Anneberth Lux ● 6564d

AnneberthI was present at the last meeting of the Lionel Road Liaison Group and I'm fairly sure there was a representative there from Stile Hall, but even if there wasn't I made it clear at that meeting that there was a need to recognise the concerns of the community in West Chiswick and to engage its organisations as a matter of absolute priority.  The point was well received, so my suggestion would be that you contact whichever residents' group represents your area and ask to be kept in the loop.  Hope this is helpful.

Phil Andrews ● 6564d

So plans for the Lionel Road site are continuing apace. (see the newsletter) Maybe because I'm a woman and not simply excited by the idea of a big stadium for the local team, I am still very worried about the impact (non sporting) on the area both on match and other event days. Jim Lawes pointed out some of the accessibility worries. Imagine a match at Lionel Road on a Twickers day... Just remember that 20,000 seats, as it is planned, is the size of the O2 Arena! It seems insane to me. Neither Kew Bridge nor Gunnersbury station can cope with the amount of people that would have to get through their turnstiles (1 in each direction at Gunnersbury...)The new article says "The joint Barratt/Brentford FC team has also initiated monthly stakeholder liaison meetings with local residents groups, councillors and other major stakeholders in the Brentford and Chiswick area"I live in the Stile Hall area and have not had anything through the door or otherwise. Has anyone else, and if so what?I think it's important for those of us who will be living in the shadow of the new stadium to make sure that the impact on our lives - and properties - is a positive one and not the blight it can potentially become.

Anneberth Lux ● 6564d

Colin, Lionel Road is the "only show in town" as far as a potential new stadium for Brentford FC is concerned. I believe the suggestion to use Western International Market was raised prior to Bees United taking over the club. The site was to have been for a park-and-ride scheme in conjunction with a Monorail link to the ground at Lionel Road - an idea which has long since been discarded as being unfeasible.Lionel Road is particularly attractive because it keeps the club in Brentford (other options considered under Ron Noades were ground-sharing with Kingstonian or Woking). (NB I am sure that many other forum members have a better knowledge of this saga - please correct me if I have got anything wrong)

James de Vivenot ● 6667d

Dont know Colin.If Barratts have the site Im sure they would be more interested in developing it as homes rather than building a stadium.Mind you I suppose building homes on the current Griffin Park site would go for a higher price than smack on the A4 and M4.

Mark Welland ● 6668d

What happened to the plan to use part of the Western International Market site, off the A312 as a site for Brentford's new ground, or has that long since gone as an option?

Colin Vaughan ● 6668d

It seems to me that a new stadium for Brentford is still a long way off.If planning permission still hasnt been applied for the council can still reject any hope of building a stadium on that site.And that would be the end of that !!!All the nonsense of what a stadium may or may not look like wouldve been a total waste of time.

Mark Welland ● 6668d

The problem will be whoever the Mayor may be, they will be able to overule the interests of the local population.If the present Mayor gets his way, Brentford would end up like Canning town and Ealing like Croydon.Brentford has never really recovered from some of the housing policies of the 1960's regardless of the good intentions of the brave new world vision of 60's planners.The Lionel road site for a stadium could not be better. It is a triangle of land contaminated from 120 years of industrial use, is flanked by 24/7 busy roads at different heights and would never make an ideal residential district.No matter how unpallatable, it will have to have substantial parking to support away fans but with careful creative planning this could also be a park and ride during weekdays that could relieve pressure in Brentford, Chiswick and Kew. And bolster the commerce of the area.A safe and pleasant walking/cycle route from Brentford town linking to the new stadium would also reconnect this end of the town before Chiswick claims it as it's own! Housing alone without amenities of decent quality is a recipe for social disaster with no-cohesion or stability to allow a community to develop.One has only got to look around Brentford at the neglect of it's amenities and then read the local paper to see how rapidly societies undesirables propogate.One wonders still at how the former Beecham site got allowed for residential use as this is one of the most polluted areas in Britain from not just roads but also from air traffic. The whole of the A4 corridor should have been reserved for mixed industrial use keeping all that brings out of residential areas.

Michael Brandt ● 6669d

In a word, yes. At present all he can do is direct refusal, but that will change later this year. The exact criteria are (I think) still being determined but the enabling development - the flats - necessary will make this site eligible for a mayoral decision. Doesn't mean to say that it will be called in, of course, but yes it might.

Matt Harmer ● 6669d

Matt is correct.  Planning is a quasi-judicial function currently undertaken by the Sustainable Development Committee and the Area Committees at the London Borough of Hounslow, and it would be unlawful for the Executive to even attempt to influence their decisions.  It is for the applicant to make the case for the development.Neil, depending on when this application is forthcoming this may indeed be taken out of the local authority's hands and pass to the Mayor of London.The local authority has, however, given its support in principle to the new stadium and is working with Brentford Football Club to help it to achieve its aspiration.

Phil Andrews ● 6669d

MattIs this the kind of development that the Mayor of London could take over the granting of permission for?

Neil Chippendale ● 6669d

Planning permission has not been granted. Indeed, it has not been applied for and I would imagine that we are some way off this taking place. A great deal of work will need to be taken in undertaking environmental, transport, sustainability and a host of other reports - as well as actually drawing up plans for what is proposed. Similarly, plans will need to be drawn up for developing Griffin Park. (To declare an interest - I live on the corner).I would imagine that there will be a greatdeal of consultation before any application is submitted.Matt HarmerBrentford ward councillorLB Hounslow

Matt Harmer ● 6669d

David, my understanding is that planning permission has not yet been granted. Cllr Andrews (who has portfolio responsibility for liaison with Brentford FC) or other forum members with greater insight into this development may be able to correct me if this is not the case.I am sure that the club will consult engage the appropriate resources as they go through the due planning process to ensure that the concerns that you raise about congestion and parking (as well as any other issues) will be properly addressed.

James de Vivenot ● 6669d

I hate to rain on Brentford FC's parade and wish them well but this is a very congested and small site for such a large development. There are already huge traffic congestion problems on the North Circular Road, Chiswick Roundabout,Kew Bridge Road and Kew Bridge. There is a great shortage of parking space in the area. The site is very close to the densely occupied residential aresa of Brentford, West Chiswick and Gunnersbury. I would be interested to know if planning permission has already been granted by Hounslow Council for this exciting new development ?

David Giles ● 6669d

Thanks James,so we are looking at four years to build a 20 to 25,000 seat stadium? Lets hope its gonna be worth it.

Mark Welland ● 6669d

Mark,The plan is for the new stadium development to be complete by the end of 2012:
Bees United website

James de Vivenot ● 6669d

What is the time scale for the development of the new stadium Neil?

Mark Welland ● 6669d

Still a very long wat to go before the stadium is built.Lets all hope is does go ahead.

Neil Chippendale ● 6669d

Perhaps they should be rebranded the Madejski Green Sox?

James de Vivenot ● 6670d

Not only is London Irish not in London, they aren't particularly Irish either!  In the L Irish v Leicester game last weekend, there was 1 Irish player in the LI squad and 4 Irish players in Leicester's squad!

Michael Robinson ● 6670d

Good post Patrick - I agree with all the points you have raised.I just wonder how long London Wasps and London Irish can continue to brand themselves as "London" teams when they play their home games in High Wycombe and Reading respectively?

James de Vivenot ● 6670d

Wasps don't have particularly large support and certainly they haven't been as successful growing their support at Wycombe compared to L Irish at Reading - and on the pitch L Irish haven't been nearly as successful as Wasps.I suspect there are a number of reason why Wasps haven't grown that much - the ground at Wycombe is difficult to get to and the facilities aren't great, L Irish moved out of London first so maybe they grabbed Thames Valley market before Wasps.I'd hope that Brentford would be very appealing to Wasps.  It is a lot closer to Wycombe than the Olympic stadium, so less of a hassle for their existing supporters, and easy to get to from West London, therefore picking up support from the area.I'm not a Wasps supporter, but I regularly used to watch them at Loftus Road as I like rugby and it was easy to get there from where I live.  However as soon as they moved to Wycombe... forget it!Here's hoping the stadium goes ahead and they get a top rank rugby team as tenants as well.

Michael Robinson ● 6670d

Most of the players live around this area - Paul Volley (now at Quins) lived in Brentford. They don't get paid as much as footballers which means that a move is a meaningful expense for them. Then again East London doesn't have professional rugby.

Andy Jones ● 6670d

Wasps have been linked to the Olympic Stadium, which is a shame as they are traditionally a West London club (their training ground is in Acton)

James de Vivenot ● 6670d

Fantastic! Will be sorry to see Griffin Park go but hopefully this stadium will be great. No mention of rugby this time I notice. London Irish have signed up at the Madjedski and London Welsh's moves to go into the Magners league have stalled. Don't thing Quins Rugby league would switch again which just leaves Wasps.

Andy Jones ● 6670d

Great news on the front page of this site today that Barratt's have completed the purchase of the Lionel Road site.

James de Vivenot ● 6670d

London Irish have extended their groundsharing agreement at the Madejski until 2026:http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_union/my_club/london_irish/7182651.stm

James de Vivenot ● 6712d

Great news for Brentford FC..let's hope they can attract more than 4,500 fans every other week.I wonder too,with their current home being redeveloped into hundreds of homeS,if we could have a few more doctors and nurses please,or is that too much too ask?

Keith Iddon ● 6744d

It's great news as the site is perfect for a stadium and little else.It keeps Brentford in Brentford (at least historically) and local which is important for the club and the local identity.With this secured, priority must now turn to ensuring the team does not slide into oblivion and under current performances, this is becoming a real possibility.Terry Butcher is a nice guy but he seems out of his depth in shaping this team into a winning one at this level, He either needs good joint help, or has to go. The stakes are as high here as it is for failure in the Premiership.Martin Allen is the type who can turn a rabble into a winning team and this is what will be needed to return to a consolidatable position.

Michael Brandt ● 6746d

If Reading reckon they are secure in the Premiership, they may not want to keep London Irish as their tenants - no other Premiership club does a groundshare with a rugby team and Steve Coppell has bitched occasionally about the hassles of sharing.However what chance is there that the stadium will be ready by 2010?  And Reading will need to give L Irish good notice, at least a year, if they are booting them out.I don't know what the situation is with Wasps at Wycombe but they've been willing to move grounds for big games as they recently played a Heineken Cup game against Munster at the Ricoh Stadium in Coventry.Wasps would average about twice Brentford's average gate and L Irish about three times.  L Irish would also have one or two 20k+ crowds each season.It is pretty clear that a rugby team will be vital to the stadium economics.However being Irish, my vote would be for a rumoured Magners League franchise to be set up in London! (London Irish don't count as Irish these days....)

Michael Robinson ● 6746d

I'm surprised that the Lionel Road South triangle is deemed large enough to contain a 20,000 seater Sports Stadium...let alone have space for car parking facilities as well.Access to and from that triangle must have been worked out..but my "O" level geography of the area suggests that traffic choas on match days will be a real headache.Just think.. Chiswick Flyover roundabout.. Gunnersbury Avenue..Kew Bridge..access to M4 etc etc.Heck, Green Dragon Lane was at a standstill the other evening ..when only 2000+ were attending Griffin Park.Any sketch plans available for viewing?

Jim Lawes ● 6746d

Certainly working for Reading with the additional income.BFC will need all the extra income they can get. Am I right that it spells the end of the Fountain Leisure Centre as the press release talks about a new one incorporated into the development.

Neil Chippendale ● 6746d

The standard were tipping Irish as well but the Madjedski is working well for the club and for Reading. Wasps seem to me the most likely because Wycombe is too small for them and they need the move but my fingers are crossed for London Welsh plus them joined the Magners league.

Andy Jones ● 6746d

Wigan and Reading have moved on up.Most people sseem to think it will be London Irish who move in. It has been reported on the LI message board that they are talking to BFC. The agreemnet with Reading ends in 2010 and they have made it plan that they wish to move back to London.Well done to Brian Burgess and his team for pulling this off. Now lets hope LBH get behind it and get the whole project up and running.

Neil Chippendale ● 6746d

It'll be by far the best stadium in the Blue Square Premier!Seriously though, this is fantastic news! Firstly (and most importantly) for the club. Hopefully this is just the first step towards turning around the Bees' fortune both on and off the field. Secondly, residents of Brentford and the surrounding areas will benefit from having a first class sports and leisure facility right on our doorstep.It will be great to be able to tell people as we prepare to face Man United, Chelsea, Arsenal et al in the Premier League (or future equivalent) years to come how we remember a time when 3,155 turned out to watch Brentford being beaten  at home by Morecombe in the 4th tier of English football. You may scoff, but look at Wigan's progress over the past few years.You Reds!!!!

James de Vivenot ● 6747d

*Declares personal interest as it's at the back of my house*John's right, and it's witha condition that plans for a replacement ground have to be in place.The Lionel Rd news is excellent - although there may have to be some managing of expectations as there's still a long way to go. But for now, a huge tribute to everybody who has played a part.For my part, I'll miss them a lot, and there is something rather special about the location of old football grounds in the middle of residential streets. But it doesn't pay the bills and I'd sooner have old teams in new grounds than old teams going bankrupt.

Matt Harmer ● 6747d

Planning consent was granted several years ago for a large housing development on the site of the ground.

John Connelly ● 6747d

Does anyone know what they have planned for the Griffin Park site?

Joe Shrimpton ● 6747d

Excellent news if it goes ahead and there is a ground share with a pro rugby team.

Michael Robinson ● 6747d

Its only an "option" to buy the land Dan.Lets hope it is the first stepping stone to a great stadium.If it does come off the main priority is to get a team playing in the stadium worthy of it.It would be no good an under achieving side playing to a half empty stadium.Hopefully the Brentford board will change a habit of a lifetime and provide the then manager,whoever that might be,money to move Brentford onto the next level.And I dont think its "Dreaming" to expect Brentford to be a mid-table Championship side.

Mark Welland ● 6747d