Forum Topic

Heathrow Expansion ; Meeting Civic Centre, Hounslow , 7.30pm Tuesday 22nd January 2008

It’s time to say no (thousands already have)Local people are being urged to turn out in force and demonstrate their opposition to Heathrow expansion at a public meeting to be held in Hounslow on Tuesday 22 January.Around two thousand residents have already contacted Hounslow Council to say ‘no’ to  plans to double the airport’s capacity, and anyone who is opposed to expansion is being encouraged to do the same.The government is currently conducting a 14-week public consultation and as part of its ‘Say No’ campaign, Hounslow Council is keen to ensure that local people have every opportunity to register their views.Councillor Barbara Reid, the council’s lead member for aviation, said:  “The government is planning to embark on the biggest ever programme of airport expansion the country had ever seen. It is essential that every single person in the borough who is opposed to these plans makes their voice heard.“It is clear to everyone that expansion will mean more planes, more noise and more pollution. By turning out to the public meeting in force we can send a very clear and simple message to the government - Hounslow says ‘no’.”The public meeting will be held at the Civic Centre in Hounslow at 7.30pm on Tuesday 22 January 2008.In addition to attending the public meeting there are a number of different ways that people can register their support for the council’s ‘Say No’ campaign including:Joining the council’s Say No Facebook group at www.hounslow.gov.uk/heathrowFilling out and returning a Say No postcard Leaving a message of support on the Say No answerphone Emailing sayno@hounslow.gov.uk

John Todd ● 6724d34 Comments

They must read the Forum!!

Jim Lawes ● 6712d

Yes I know,  and John Todd is to be congratulated for using this forum to start such an important thread.  I guess the posting by Jim regarding the Putney forum and MP Justine Greening prompted me  (possibly incorrectly within the context of this thread header) to express my observation that neither Ann nor Alan Keen engage with their constituents on this site ,but to be perfectly fair, neither do our senior Cllrs with the exception of  Phil Andrews, Paul Fisher, Ruth Cadbury, Andrew Dakers and Matt Harmer.  I am not only referring to the Heathrow Expansion topic. I of course am aware that Peter Thompson and Barbara Reid have been campaigning against Heathrow expansion, and may well have been, for years  and I am very aware of the excellent campaign Mary Macleod is running but when I log into the Hounslow.gov  Stop Heathrow Campaign (Facebook)  I get Ruth Cadbury, Matt Harmers and Mary Macleod's  photos popping up.  I see nothing from Thomson / Reid / Keen / I am not political so I don't particularly care whether the Tories started the campaign first and were followed by the ICG and then the Lib Dems etc - people aren't particularly interested in the fact that a Cllr started campaigning 20 years ago - the fact is it hasn't worked - the problem persists and if Kelly gets her way the expansion won't be stopped so Executive Members need to step up their web profiles radically. It worked in Twickenham for Vince Cable and it could work here. Everyone knows who Phil Andrews, Ruth Cadbury and Matt Harmer are and what they stand for. How many know who Peter Thompson and Barbara Reid are?  "Hounslow Matters"  goes from letterboxes to recycling bins! 

Steve Taylor ● 6713d

Thanks Sheila.Here's a belated picture of the top table. They had been told by the professional cameraman to look serious!  ..just as I arrived!!(john stewart /hacan, barbara reid, peter thompson, kathryn harper-quinn /headteacher hounslow heath school, geraldine nicholson/notrag)

Jim Lawes ● 6714d

Steve,This thread was started by Councillor John Todd, Conservative Councillor for Chiswick Homefields. Everyone knows that Councillors Peter Thompson, Barbara Reid and all the Conservative Councillors are campaigning strongly against Heathrow Expansion. Many of them like Barbara Reid have been active in the campaign for years.In this present campaign they have been joined by ICG, Labour and Lib Dem Councillors and the Independents. Mary Macleod, the Conservative Parliamentary candidate, is campaigning hard also and has distributed thousands of special leaflets opposing the Expansion.I delivered a few hundred myself last Saturday.

David Giles ● 6715d

Steve,This thread was started by Councillor John Todd, Conservative Councillor for Chiswick Homefields. Everyone knows that Councillors Peter Thompson, Barbara Reid and all the Conservative Councillors are campaigning strongly against Heathrow Expansion. Many of them like Barbara Reid have been active in the campaign for years.In this present campaign they have been joined by ICG, Labour and Lib Dem Councillors and the Independents. Mary Macleod, the Conservative Parliamentary candidate, is campaigning hard also and has distributed thousands of special leaflets opposing the Expansion.I delivered a few hundred myself last Saturday.

David Giles ● 6715d

Dear Jim,Thanks.  Yes, more people would have been better, but I'm sure there are thousands who are putting in their objections, protests etc by post, email.  There's been lots of media coverage.  Maybe everyone's saving themselves for the rally at Central Hall, Westminster???best wishesSheila

Sheila O'Reilly ● 6715d

Hi Sheila,My apologies! I've now booked you in! ;0)That means there was a most excellent turn out from Wards furthest away from Heathrow...and taking into account that Chiswick had already had a "packed" meeting.Adding the three extra names that Gill has mentioned, the (unconfirmed) attendance analysis, for whatever value it has, now looks like this:There are 3 Councillors in each ward.2 attended from each of Bedfont and Hounslow Central1 attended from Hanworth,Heston West, Heston Central, & Feltham North (Gill!)(0) NONE ATTENDED from:Hounslow Heath !!  (2 Labour)**Hounslow West!!    (3 Labour)**Heston East!!      (3 Labour)**Hanworth Park      (others)Feltham West      (1 Labour)Cranford!!        (2 Labour)**What message does that send out? Certainly four** of those wards are affected by aircraft noise and pollution.I was just disappointed by the turn out. 1000 at least should have been there...instead of the 400 I have been advised! What do you reckon?

Jim Lawes ● 6715d

Colleagues tell me that Desi Radio in Southall had an excellent slot on Heathrow expansion over the weekend - so the message is spreading......

Tim Henderson ● 6716d

"The Putney Forum discusses Heathrow Expansion as well.  More than that... their MP Justine Greening posts newsletters on the Putney website to give then feedback"Well, it seems from the investigations by Jim that most of the Cllrs who really care about their wards were present. Matt and Ruth always make the effort for their party but Jim has certainly ascertained that they didn't get much support from their colleagues. I was in Putney over the weekend and discussed this issue with friends there and it seems Justine Greening certainly knows how to embrace the community. Using the Community website goes a long way to demonstrate this. It seems our Council Leader, most  Lead Members  and  our MP are determined to alienate the community by refusing to use this Community site to engage with the public.  Surgeries are a good thing for those wanting to discuss confidential matters with Cllrs or MP's but matters of public interest should be debated on sites such as these so we all know exactly where our MP's and Cllrs stand. For a west London MP not to attend a public meeting on Heathrow expansion is..........??!!

Steve Taylor ● 6716d

You missed me, Jim, but I saw you!Sheila

Sheila O'Reilly ● 6716d

Hello Jim  Sorry but  2 cllr from bedfont Peter Hills and John Howliston and 1 from Hanworth Linda Nakamura were also in attendance

Gill Hutchison ● 6716d

I personally felt duty bound to go to the Hounslow meeting..as it was most important to show support..and to learn information from the 4 key speakers and the chairman Cllr Peter Thompson...and not least from the questioners.There seemed to be a distinct lack of attendance by resident's from the west of the Borough nearest Heathrow...and Councillors there too.Of 60 Councillors in the Borough only 18 it seems turned up..unless we hear of more names.  Of those 18 Cllrs that attended, 13 came from wards furthest away from Heathrow!!Correct?Amongst the 36 Councillors whose wards are nearest Heathrow, only 5, only 5, only 5 IT SEEMS, attended the meeting!!!  Correct?There are 3 Councillors in each ward.2 attended from Hounslow Central1 attended from Heston West, Heston Central, & Feltham North (Gill!)(0) NONE ATTENDED from:Hounslow Heath !!Hounslow West!!Heston East!!HanworthHanworth ParkFeltham WestCranford!!BedfontWhat do you make of that?  16 Labour councillors were missing for starters.! There is a big battle ahead. Maybe residents and councillors in these "0" areas have sent in there NO! postcards.  maybe they all support expansion. Who knows. I'm just stirring the porridge.

Jim Lawes ● 6717d

Thank you Gill and Matt.Apologies too..that's 6 I missed..or didn't recognise.You can't trust amateur correspondents of my calibre!!. I'll stick to pictures.  No, I won't ..this is a big issue..and needs every hand and keyboard available!!

Jim Lawes ● 6717d

Jim, as Cllrs Reid and Thompson will tell you, this is a cross-party initiative. Anyway, add Cllrs Bath L, Bath R, Vaught and Malik to your list - and there may be more, I wasn't taking a register. I also saw Cllr Hardy from Syon, so he can go on your list.

Matt Harmer ● 6717d

Hello Jim  Cllr Gill Hutchison from Feltham north ward i was there too

Gill Hutchison ● 6717d

""As a P.P.C. she'll probably not miss turning up to the opening of a 'fridge door"" says Vanessa about Mary Macleod.Don't be fooled by what you think! is my reply.I've received nothing through my letter box from the Local Labour Party, Mrs Keen or her Campaign Strategist  Mr Alan Sherrins regarding Heathrow...and that is a very poor show!Mary Macleod PPC on the other hand etc etc etc.....I won't tell you what she's up to!!------------------------------------------------""How many Councillors weren't able to attend - or are their excuses more valid than an M.P's?"" asks Vanessa.At the packed Chiswick meeting at which some 700-1000 people apparently turned up I would imagine that nearly all 9 Chiswick Conservative Councillors turned up.At the Hounslow Meeting, Cllr Thompson chaired the meeting and Cllr Todd from Chiswick was certainly there.From Brentford Ward all 3 were there Cllrs Cadbury, Hamer and Dakers.From the Syon Ward I gather just Cllr Shirley FisherFrom Isleworth Ward just Cllr Genevieve Hibbs (Paul and Phil had other engagements.From Osterley and Spring Grove..Cllr Barbara Reid was in the hot seat. Cllr Peter Carey was there as well.From Hounslow South ward Cllr Brad Fisher, Cllr Pam Fisher, Cllr Davies were all there (full team)--------------------------------------------I calculate therefore that there were 9 Conservative/ICG people at teh important Hounslow meeting plus John Davies and Mary MacLeod.From the caring Labour Party there were only 2 people as far as I could tell..and Matt may wish correct me on that.  It was disgraceful in my book that non of the vast number of Asian Councillors turned up..representing wards in Heston, Cranford, Hounslow and yonder.  There was just a handful of Indian, Pakistani, Nepalese incomers..perhaps six..not good enough. Where were the other 70,000? Yes, Mary MacLeod was there..supporting the rest of her Conservative colleagues and representing the many Borough of Hounslow people she has won over to her candidature.Of course Mary MacLoed will turn up to the opening of a fridge door. She's friendly and co-operative like that.  Mrs Keen on the other hand wouldn't attend anything if she could avoid mixing with the locals who had a point of view different from her own.

Jim Lawes ● 6717d

Steve Taylor recently posted this :Ruth Cadbury posted this on 2/12/2007 on a different thread:"Ann and Alan Keen's position - released this week:"Over the years we have campaigned consistently for the reduction of night flights at Heathrow and to safeguard the Cranford Agreement.  We will do everything in our power to ensure that the Cranford Agreement is upheld".  [Mixed mode could not go ahead if the agreement is upheld]."We will be carrying out an extensive consultation on the Heathrow expansion proposals with our constituents over the coming months . . . and pass our findings to the Department of Transport for inclusion in the Heathrow Consultation process.We are opposed in principle to the third runway.  However we require more economic information from the Airline Industry and from the Department of Transport "Hoping that clarifiesCllr Ruth CadburyLB Hounslow - Deputy Leader"I am pleased that Ann is opposed in principle - but opposed in action in line with the cross-party support of the local councillors would be better.I did email Ann on 8th January :"I am interested in your survey of residents views on Heathrow Expansion and wonder whether it would be appropriate to discuss my views on this at a surgery meeting.Would it be possible to inform me of future surgery occasions in Brentford/Isleworth ? "but I have still to receive a response. I expect her postbag is busy.At the "alternative" exhibition in Westminster yesterday there were copies of a ?Greenpeace document questioning the economic argument for expansion. In particular they quoted the government value of emitted CO2 used in the economic case as £19/tonne. Greenpeace accepted this as a fair figure if globally everyone took the appropriate measures to reduce emissions. But if no-one did (I think the argument went) the  figure to be used should be £53/tonne. However, if everyone uses the £19 figure to base their projects on, no-one will take the necessary measures to achieve that figure !!! (I am sure they argued it much better than I can remember - and I can't find the doc on their website.)

Tim Henderson ● 6717d

As a P.P.C. she'll probably not miss turning up to the opening of a 'fridge door. How many Councillors weren't able to attend - or are their excuses more valid than an M.P's?

Vanessa Smith ● 6717d

I seem to recall the Keens promising to conduct their own local consultation but I have yet to see anything from them.Are they both 100% against the expansion as I am still puzzled by their stance?

Paul Fisher ● 6717d

The Putney Forum discusses Heathrow Expansion as well.  More than that... their MP Justine Greening posts newsletters on the Putney website to give then feedback-----------------------------------A recent newsletter said this!Heathrow UpdateI met with Aviation Minister Jim Fitzpatrick on Thursday morning to discuss the public consultation.  Even now he and his officials seem to be in denial that the consultation documentation put out is not totally biased, having been largely developed by, and written with BAA, Heathrow’s operator.  When I challenged them over why they have dismissed their own report’s findings (the ANASE report) into how aircraft noise annoys people, they really didn’t have anything of substance to say whatsoever.  It is deeply concerning that these same people will be taking decisions we’ll have to live with locally for years to come.  They don’t seem to care what impact expanding Heathrow will have on our community.  Even so, I’ve invited Mr Fitzpatrick to our public meeting on 17th January and hear what our community thinks of the government’s proposals.  However, if Ministers like Jim Fitzpatrick and his boss Ruth Kelly won’t come to listen to the public, then it makes it all the more important that we respond to their consultation.  With the help of many other residents I am also letting local residents know about the consultation – if you are one of the couple of hundred helping out with the delivery – thank you, and if you'd like to help, do get in touch with me.  Don’t waste the opportunity to have your say in this consultation – for the sake of our local quality of life for years to come, please do take the time to respond.

Jim Lawes ● 6717d

It is noteworthy that Ann Keen MP for Brentford and Isleworth once against distinguished herself by her absence -as did her husband Alan, MP for Feltham and Heston. Although Mrs Keen says she is opposed to the Labour Government's present plans to expand Heathrow she has in the past supported all previous Heathrow expansions. Nor does she have a strong record on opposing night and early morning flights. If in fact she lives in Covent Garden, that is understandable as she is not as affected by them as we are !As a Parliamentary Under Secretary at the Department of Health, and therefore a very junior member of the Government, she will not be able to vote against the Government's proposals unless she is prepared to lose her job.That's unlikely.Mary Macleod, the Conservative Prospective Parliamentary Candidate, in contrast spoke at the meeting and strongly opposes the plans.Let's hope we have a chance to elect Mary as our MP so she can vote on the issue before the plans are approved by Parliament.

David Giles ● 6720d

Greetings MattGlad to hear that you were there for the whole show. Weren't the speeches excellent?My waiter at the curry house tonight claims that expansion will be good for the economy and that's what "we" all want "more money making opportunities"!  I respect the lad..he's intelligent..a good debater..and is knowledgable..but his boss doesn't let him have any of the tips..so no wonder he has that YES! point of view!!Where were Brentford's missing 10,000 last night...agreed some would have been baby-sitting or carers.  Brentford will be badly clobbered if all the proposals happen. Don't they care?

Jim Lawes ● 6721d

Sorry, Jim, I should have come and said Hallo - I was about three rows behind you on the right hand side of the hall (though I was elsewhere for the first part of the meeting). A good meeting, and I imagine that the quality and quantity of the rresponses received by the DfT will be impressive.

Matt Harmer ● 6721d

The Prospective Parliamentary candidate for the Conservative Party ..Mary MacLeod.. was certainly there last night .. as she was at the Chiswick meeting last week I gather.Have you met with her? She seems very approachable.

Jim Lawes ● 6721d

Gill,Yes agrred, John should be high-lighted..for his friendly disposition!

Jim Lawes ● 6721d

Lovely Photo John on the chiswick site keep smiling

Gill Hutchison ● 6721d

Thanks Paul and Phil,Sorry I didn't manage to bump into Shirley as having a chat with her..and of course your goodselves.. is always a pleasure.There were some half dozen questioners who said they were from Isleworth..and one from Brentford. Folk from Feltham too. Out of some 30 questions asked in total..no question seemed duff to me ... indeed many opened our eyes to further arguements against further expansion at Heathrow..as Tim has reported on W4.comCllr Andrew Dakers spoke too..as did Cllr Ruth Cadbury.  Cllr Matt Hamer missed the speeches I believe ..so I do hope the action and sound  is made available in video form for everyone to view.  it was an important occasion..extremely well organised and presented. .I sat next to two distinguished local historians ..Janet MacNamara..and Eddie Menday who appears weekly in the Hounslow Chronicle. Eddie told the gathering that with regard to Heathrow "there has been deception from Day 1!"My feeling is that the Government is toying around with us..such as I've never noticed before. Their manipulation of statistics, points of view..and the contents of the Consultation Document..makes me feel that they have no regard for the quality of our lives..and are wishing to bulldozer their intent against many peoples wishes. The might of BA (who often threaten to move their business to Europe if they don't get their way!) and BAA (Spanish owned now) should not be underestimated..nor those big Trades Unions at Heathrow!Andrew mentioned the rough handling of protesters by Riot Police at last year's Heathrow gathering..and that makes for  a prediction of stormy demonstrations ahead.We were urged by Ruth Cadbury to fill Ann Keen MP's postbox with our correspondence of protest..as that apparently impresses other MP's in the House who's NO! support is needed.    The firecracker of a lady, Geraldine Nicholson (NOTRAG) from Hillingdon  said that our corrspondence to the Dept for Transport and others should be heavily laden with reports of personal distress at the Heathrow goings-on.  Family stories of sleepness nights, noise and pollution ailments, disruptions in having conversations, teaching children etc etc..should be conveyed  especially..as these will have more impression on the Civil Service jobsworths who will be reading the complaints!!One noticed that a whole wad of Hounslow's mighty population were absent last night..don't they care?  In addition the Keen's missed an opportunity to make a grand entrance.. but that could have been embarrassing!

Jim Lawes ● 6721d

JimAs Paul says, the dilemma which busy councillors are sometimes faced with is how to be in two places at once.  When faced with such a situation our solution is to ensure that all options are covered by at least one of our people, and then to exchange information so that we might each be informed about the other event.The campaign against the expansion of Heathrow, ably instigated and led by Councillor Barbara Reid, has our unswerving support as the photograph below demonstrates.  I will post up details of the Isleworth meeting shortly.

Phil Andrews ● 6721d

Many thanks Jim for the information regarding last nights meeting which as always was very informative and I have also enjoyed reading your extra postings on the Chiswick W4 Forum.I certainly wish I was able to attend last night but unfortunately myself and Cllr Phil Andrews both had a long standing arranged meeting to attend at The Isleworth Public Hall. My wife Shirley Fisher (Cllr for Syon) was at the Civic Centre last night and also I believe Cllr Hibbs (Isleworth Cllr) so our Wards were represented I assure you.

Paul Fisher ● 6721d

My boring report and pictures are on the Chiswick website..and will take too long to repeat here.  I need to get to bed before the 4.32am BA flight from the Fast east comes flying over....and certainly before that Cathey pacific beast ;0(And don't get me on the subject that before 5am flight from Nigeria with drug barons and all!Read Tim's report on W4.com ..he has covered lots and lots of points.Where were my friends the Syon and Isleworth Councillors tonight? I saw Andy..and heard that Cllr Genevieve Hibbs was amongst the 300..but where the others on this big big night.PS: I've heard that there is going to be an ISLEWORTH/HEATHROW meeting soon. have you?

Jim Lawes ● 6722d

Jim Lawes ● 6722d

TW8's Tim Henderson has written a most excellent report on tonight's meeting which has been posted on the Chiswick Forum.There were just 300 locals at the Conference Hall to hear splendid speeches against Expansion..and there were many good questions too.Tim has listed many of the points made..good on him..not an easy task scribbling notes at a fast moving meeting!  But the message was clear:

Jim Lawes ● 6722d

I wasn't able to make the meeting, but would appreciate any reports / comments / observations from anyone who attended.

Paul Stedman ● 6722d

Hopefully there will be 10,000 of Hounslow's 250,000 residents there tonight!All of Heston ought to be attending for starters.Chiswick recently held a "packed" meeting of 500+ and according to the Putney Forum they had a 700+ one too.I've had to start wearing the earplugs again..to get a good night's sleep..and the thought of "mixed mode" all day and night is not an exciting prospect.  Don't let BAA confuse us all with dodgy "noise level reading" figures...etc etc.Their next try on will be to increase the 5800 pa night flights..etc etc.  The call to them is really NO! to expansion, Third runway, sixth terminal and more,

Jim Lawes ● 6722d