Forum Topic

I do know how you feel Philip, sometimes all I can see is a game of constant 'catch up', that always leaves us a step or two behind while precedents get established as you have described. Even so, I do believe that the Council and officers have grown, and are growing, more aware of the community and more sensitive to wider issues. It may be a slow process, and we've lost so much in the interim, but it's either give up or fight on – and we shouldn't give up yet.We will never have 'total success' all of the time, but we will often achieve enough of a success to make the effort worthwhile. Whatever happens on the 'Black Widow' site will be a vast improvement on the original proposal, even if the whole project is delayed. (I'm surprised at the protracted silence from the new architects after the frantic round of 'community workshops' last year, but better to suffer a vacant lot for a year or so, than suffer a nasty overblown hulk for the foreseeable future.)Same thing applies to South of the High Street. As Sarah has noted, developers tend to use dereliction for years, as a way of making a community grateful for simply anything that replaces it. I agree that there ought to be sanctions against this, but there aren't any, and we must work with what tools we have. They will be sufficiently effective to force Ballymore to modify these start off schemes. They may well be using these 'leaked' documents and plans quite cynically anyway, for the same reason as ensuring the dereliction – setting us up to breathe a sigh of relief that some future scheme wasn't as horrible as the initial one.Our hope must still be that they will see the common sense value in engaging with us constructively, rather than pursuing the arrogantly isolated path trodden thus far. On that score, it's only realistic to recognise that they will only change their tune, as did St George West London, when it becomes obvious that they have to! Which is where we come in - on Forums such as this, and elsewhere.

Nigel Moore ● 6339d

Again I see an ugly development without any trees or anything but a token bush, just like all the other recent developments,just how sad this town is going to look when its all done, really depresses me. I keep hearing how successful the completed developments are but to me all I see is pockets of buildings totally isolated from each other and the rest of the town.I was 15 years old when the Haverfield estate was built all the local kids said the same thing the underground car parks coupled with the alleyways gave the place a 'clockwork orange feel and we all even at that age knew it was a bad idea. Within ten years it became a real mess with stolen cars being dumped and set on fire in the underground car parks resulting in them bieng bourded up. I have not been down that way for many years so I can't comment on what its like now.The Black Widow site is still empty and still stinking of raw sewage so I have trouble seeing how anyone can claim that the objections to the development there has been a total success. Although I did agree with the objections I fail to see why this heath hazard is being allowed to continue it seems like a deliberate punishment to the locality for objecting to the development and its about time the local councillors and council brought the owners of this site to book over it.Much is made of the council planning process and its ability to rain in developments, however the monstrous development of the Freddie Barratts phallus still got the go ahead. The effects of this will soon be felt throughout the town in relation to planning permission over the height of future developments, after all 14 stories is not very high when compared to 25. Sorry to sound so negative but but I feel that the thin edge of the wedge has been inserted while we where all looking the wrong way and I feel that the planning department were well aware of that fact when the go ahead was given. I now have very little faith in our local council and its planning department over the new developments.

Philip Walsh ● 6340d

Ugly indeed Audrey, though that is perhaps not as important as the effect of the sheer scale, with the displacement of all character, history, local enterprise and waterways industry.We do need to make an outcry against this sort of thing – Sarah and Shelagh on the other High St thread have spoken of despondency, while Frankie and others bemoan Barrett's seeming power to over-ride local and national planning. But there is no inevitability to the juggernaut progress of developers; they CAN be persuaded to give communities schemes more in line with their wishes, so long as the planning laws are sufficiently clear, the planning authority is firm enough to enforce those, and so long as the community backs up the planning authority with sufficient vigour.Under the Albany House topic, Frankie says: “My gripe is that the local communities waste so much time, effort and money on consultations and meetings trying to shape their vision for the community, and often the valid points of issue they raise are overlooked and overturned in favour of bigger financial gains for the developers.” Agreed, when this happens it is grounds for a gripe - but it doesn't have to be so, and I don't believe that the community's time, effort and money invested in shaping a vision for Brentford's High Street was/is a waste.I think we all need reminding just how much success has been achieved by our Council and community over the past few years in this field. It's a trumpet that doesn't get blown enough, perhaps because the success is owed largely to unanimity between political parties – which doesn't make for good 'copy' or excite debate.Remember that 'everyone' thought campaigning against St George's Kew Bridge monstrosity was a waste of time – especially with the Mayor's enthusiastic backing for the scheme. That was an awkward one, because our Planning Department also, had recommended approval! Still, the extent of local involvement by amenity groups proved to be a powerful force to re-inforce the Council decision, and our views were upheld so comprehensively by the Secretary of State, that the entire approach by St George was turned around.Still more perhaps, the huge over-development proposed for Commerce Road was seen by many as having unstoppable momentum – again, with the Mayor's wholehearted support. Yet again, however, local community groups worked hard alongside the Council, and while it may have taken over a year at vast expense, the outcome was a triumph for us, and a scathing indictment of the British Waterways partnership.Barratt's Albany House scheme might seem small beer by comparison, but both Council and local amenity groups will be defending the Council's decision on that also, in the months to come. Our track record is encouraging!So far as South of the High Street is concerned, the monumental body of work compiled as a result of the co-ordinated local efforts, has placed this area in an almost unique position. The High Street Visioning Project, in tandem with the Council consultations over the past few years, has laid rock-solid foundations for the local development framework policies – and those will simply HAVE to be taken into account. Ballymore, British Waterways, and others, can wriggle as much as they like trying to dilute the effect, but the BAAP will still be a force to be reckoned with when trying for planning consent. We've all contributed to that; it could never be said that it was a waste of time – recent history proves otherwise.So no despondency please! Whether for or against, wave that flag, post that comment!

Nigel Moore ● 6343d

It would be surprising if it didn't encounter the same objections John, as the densities (from memory), are very similar.Whether the architects have been able to overcome the design problems in meeting such densities that British Waterways fell foul of, remains to be seen. The Commerce Road scheme was slated by the Secretary of State for failing on numerous fronts, virtually all of which arose from the attempt to cram as much into the space as they could. Insufficient leisure space was one of the condemned results.We know that Ballymore had held off revealing anything of their plans until the Appeal decision on Commerce Road was known – the figures published here demonstrate that they had obviously hoped for a decision that would set a helpful precedent for them. That hasn't happened, yet they evidently are determined to press on regardless.The only factor that is helpful to them when comparing schemes, is that theirs is in fact town centre, while Commerce Road wasn't and would have detracted from the town centre.The high housing figures shouldn't come as a surprise, however unwelcome, and perhaps it might be possible to achieve them while maintaining planning and community aspirations (!?) The real test will come when they have shown us HOW they intend to achieve this. Will they pay any regard to these at all? It is ominous that in the article, their claims regarding talks with the Steering Group is inaccurate – though that might have been an editorial slip up.There are other worrying parallels with the British Waterways' Commerce Road scheme. The tactic of first destroying all surviving industry and giving the site over to deliberate dereliction was used by British Waterways in the bluntest and most unapologetic manner. The Regional Director's letter to the Secretary of State prior to the hearing, blatantly said that rejection of their appeal would not net Hounslow Council the sort of development they wanted, so the site would remain derelict in such a case!That's the sort of blackmail we have most to fear from I suspect. Then again, if they have genuinely sought to embrace the community vision for Brentford so far as is feasible, such a situation need not arise. Is anyone taking bets on this possibility?

Nigel Moore ● 6387d