Forum Topic

Save the Syon Hill Farm 200 year old wall before developers knock it down!

Long before the Gillette Building was erected in the late 1930's, and long before the Great West Road was opened in the 1920's, there was a farm up there on the top of Syon Hill.Many of these old farms in Brentford and Isleworth had walls erected some 200 years ago..and samples can be seen around Osterley Park, at Wyke Green Farm on Windmill Lane(where Seccombes the builders merchants are now) and in Northumberland Avenue off Syon Lane...opposite the entrance to the Homebase Superstore.These walls are part of our Heritage and need to be protected from demolition.We don't want bulldozers driven by incomers (who may not be well informed) to accidently knock one down!  A campaign is underway I gather on the Northumberland Estate by a lady I met on Saturday. She had never heard about BrentfordTW8.com although she produces,I believe, a Community Newsletter for her area.Maybe Sarah can elaborate..as this is all in Felstead country!Pictures and map to follow.

Jim Lawes ● 6393d24 Comments

Not so - from Historic England's website. How does the listing process work? There are two main routes to listing: .1. Anyone can nominate a building to be listed and 2. We have our own strategic programme of listing priorities In both cases we make a recommendation to the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (DCMS) based on Principles of selection for listed buildings and they make the final decision as whether a site should be listed or not.

Vanessa Smith ● 3085d

Down to the Council to drive the listing.  Even without listing it is either owned by the Council or is jointly owned so should have a party wall solicitor, paid for by the developers, to protect the wall?

Sarah Felstead ● 3086d

As I understand this - the wall is not listed. As there was an application for this site way back in 2008 didn't anyone think about trying to get it listed then?

Vanessa Smith ● 3086d

Surely those trees aren't within the curtilage of the site Sarah ? - they look like highway trees to me.Not sure I should admit that, but I've driven past there twice since Friday and I didn't notice...

Adam Beamish ● 3086d

The developers have another planning application in which includes knocking down part of the wall, which is not theirs to knock down.  The line of trees across the site have been removed prior to the application being considered, must have been last weekend?  Does anyone know?  Will the wall be knocked down this weekend?Where are the environmentalists?

Sarah Felstead ● 3087d

Sorry I am in a rush Jim - will reply later - smashing photos by the way!

Sarah Felstead ● 6387d

The starting point for this conversation is establishingQ Who owns, maintains and is responsible for the wall?We lived in a maisonette in Warkworth Gardens and used to weed the wall at the bottom of our garden.  I imagine that other people in the maisonettes have followed suit -  historically, would that not make it a party wall?I remember Council men working on the street side of the wall mending bricks and weeding, when we lived there.  Would that not make it a party wall?Was ownership passed to the Council with the street ownership if this was an existing wall and the land the other side was sold and developed?If considered to be of historical interest is there not money which can be claimed to maintain it?  'Rumour' had it that the wall had links to Capability Brown.The line of trees against the rear of the building (parallel to Warkworth) were attached to a previous planning application at the site along with vehicle restrictions the other side of the wall - they had to install a barrier to limit hours of use in the car park, I seem to remember.  Are these trees protected?I also seem to think that there were issues about light from the office windows and they had to have blinds on every window.Maybe somebody could dig out the previous applications.  I know the Cllrs were careful to listen to residents at that time, and that was before the rise in noise levels from the A4 and giving it a label of 'environmental considerations' - the committee were ahead of their time?  :-)Maybe the Council should stake a claim of interest in the wall to stop it being removed one Sunday and until ownership/heritage/historical status can be established.

Sarah Felstead ● 6387d

I am heartily glad to see so many actively concerned about planning issues and preservation of our heritage.  These issues are fully discussed by Members from all parties and groups at the Isleworth and Brentford Area Committee which is held at Brentford Free Church on Thursdays (dates are on the Council website)Members of the public can speak on issues on the Planning agenda provided they contact Committe services (Carol Stiles)in advance (at Monitoring IBAC there is an open floor) and contributions from the public are very welcomed particularly on matters of this nature. I hope many of you who have contributed here on the TW8 forum will use this opportunity in local democracy to make their views heard: it will enhance the quality of debate when reasoned views are heard.

Jon Hardy ● 6387d

Jim Lawes ● 6388d

Notice the impressive Syon Lodge on the London Road. So this was the view that the Duke of Marlborough could see from his watchtower!Just recalled that the School at the bottom of the Hill is called Marlborough!! Thanks for the tip off Tim!Picture taken last June 07 when Gillette's were still in occupation.Now it's the Bonnington Hotel.

Jim Lawes ● 6388d

I'm glad to know that there are other people who have noticed the old wall in Northumberland Road.  I have asked planners to investigate the status of this wall at IBAC a couple of meetings ago: unfortunately it is NOT listed which means our legal leverage is limited; everything to preserve the wall will have to be done by negotiation rather than being able to slap a legal notice on it.That said the plans for the re-development of this site do NOT include demolition of the wall - though I take the point that walls can be carelessly knocked down - and our head of development control the very able Cathy Gallagher has promised to lay it on with a trowel that the local people including myself wish this wall to be in existance for many years to come.Should anyone see anything untoward when this development - still under review on grounds of design and massing i.e. no permisson granted yet, please do not hesitate to call my mobile: I work from home and am quite prepared to stand in front of bulldozers if required.Jon Hardy

Jon Hardy ● 6389d

Those farms would have had fine views of the Thames Valley and London town in bygone days.  From Gillette Corner views of London are obscured by the buildings lining the Great West Road,I have been on the Gillette Offices roof andf the views are a big surprise. One day a trip up the clock tower may be possible.Tim often produces just stunning research references..and I had never realised that  top of the Syon Hill is probably  the Duke of Marlborough's Observatory tower shown on the map!  I didn't recognise the symbol, nor had heard of his tower..or that the Duke might have lived on the top of Syon Hill. Wonderful fonts of knowledge are those google book pages!As you all know the road northways climbs up to Wyke Green and Warren Farm.  Harlequin Avenue climbs too...but from a lower position on the Great West Road.Tim has mentioned underground reservoirs at the location..all news to me..(we learn on these Forums!) but I recall that the lady I met last Saturday who raised the question of the wall with Cllr Lynch (Heritage portfolio).also say she was researching the streams and historic water supplies of the area.  Sarah: do you know this lady. I wonder if she has visited this thread?

Jim Lawes ● 6389d

TimThe distribution of the plans is often a mystery at the Libraries.  I recall that the recent plans for a new Isleworth Mosque  to be established in Thornbury Road,South...at the Prayer Hall..were not available at Osterely Library just up the road!! but instead at the Twickenham Road Library..a long way from the centre of public interest.Regarding the Access Storage development on this Northumberland Avenue /Great West Road/Syon Lane developmentI found the ""plans"" on the Civic Centre website pages relating to the local Area Committee.http://213.210.33.3/Published/C00000236/M00004195/AI00036925/$gillettecornerfinal.docA.ps.pdfThe wall appears to be under some threat....and I wouldn't trust the developers!

Jim Lawes ● 6389d

The lights were still on in Osterley Library as I biked past it tonight, so I popped in to see what was going to happen to the wall.Unfortunately the plans were not in the library (they weren't on the list of applications they had received since November) - so they phoned Brentford Library and asked if they had them.The answer was no.Could they have gone to Isleworth ?.......They did try to tempt me with a big juicy pack of the plans for the Bonnington Hotel at Gillette Corner (might be interesting for another day and I'm sure Jim would like to see what they are doing with it.)

Tim Henderson ● 6389d

I suppose it is this planning application :(when is late night opening at Osterley Library ? to view the plans)System Reference: P/2007/3790Planning Reference: 00505/AF/P22PROPOSALSite description South west Corner of Syon Lane and Great West Road (Former Syon Gate Service Station) Great West Road Isleworth TW7 5NP Application type Major Full ApplicationsDate received 04/12/2007 Details Redevelopment of site to provide a 8,989 sqm self storage facility (class B8) alterations to access arrangements, car parking and landscaping to siteWard Osterley and Spring Grove

Tim Henderson ● 6391d

On the map Jim posted, I think the top of the hill is probably  the Duke of Marlborough's Observatory tower "half an inch" to the west of the number 287 in Syon Lane. That's the almost square plan building next to the winding drive. There's a picture of it in "And make a city here".I guess the wall we are talking about is on the side of the building that falls away west-south-west from the number 287.But what is the gateway a gateway to ? And what are the two alcoves ?Bates (And make a city here) talks about a large underground reservoir somewhere thereabouts to feed the conduit with the water supply to Syon House.Puzzling !

Tim Henderson ● 6391d

Out of interest - can we establish where the top of the hill is?

Sarah Felstead ● 6391d

Thanks Jim,The numbers would be right. 291, the parcel and 11.456 would be the acreage.

Neil Chippendale ● 6391d

""Neil, can you read the numbers on The Alan Godrey map which Jim has posted?  I mean the field which has 291 then 11.456?""Looking at the foot of the map..the whole of which is available with others at local libraries..and cheapo too..it says that 291 is the "parcel" number and the 11,456 is the acreage of the plot. I reckon that your home is on parcel 174..that a 100 years ago was a huge orchard to the west of Quakers Lane.I've seen the plans somewhere on the Civic Centre website showing that whole (redundant petrol station)corner on the Great West Road being taken over by an Access Self Storage development. I can't remember if the wall is threatened..but the Northumberland Estate lady indicated it was.

Jim Lawes ● 6392d

Hello, Jim.  I didn't know that they had drawn up plans for consideration by the area committee, although the site has been boarded up for some months now.Neil, can you read the numbers on The Alan Godrey map which Jim has posted?  I mean the field which has 291 then 11.456?These maps always bring me out in a warm glow as every tree has the shade drawn in underneath it.  Is there any significance in the direction of the shade in the preparation of the map?:-)

Sarah Felstead ● 6392d

JimThanks for highlighting this. She could also contact the Heritage Officer at Council and see what she says.

Neil Chippendale ● 6393d

SarahI believe that you drew our attention to this wall some years back. Maybe you could direct key neighbours to this thread and website. 

Jim Lawes ● 6393d

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Councillor Paul Lynch oversees Heritage matters..amongst many other responsibilities..and I believe the local lady has been in touch with him.I gather that the ACCESS STORAGE has plans to erect a large warehouse facility on the Great West Road corner..opposite to the Shell garage, Homebase, Gillette/Bonnington Hotel site..and it is ACCESS and their partners who need to be strictly monitored!

Jim Lawes ● 6393d

The Alan Godrey map Number 83 of Brentford in 1894 clearly shows the Farm... up the road from the Coach and Horses pub

Jim Lawes ● 6393d