Forum Topic

Lighter terms for addict thefts!!!

Thieves who target the vulnerable such as the elderly, may not be sent to prison in future-if it is shown they were motivated by desperation or need,  At present, such offences attract a prison sentence of at least 18 weeks!The Sentencing Guidelines Council )SGC which advises courts in England and Wales will call for the use of more community orders in future.I wonder  how many of the scroats arrested for beating an elderly person senseless, will plead that they "were desperate or in need" to get a cushy community order instead. So much for the vulnerable and elderly, bottom of the pile again, so much for the "Champagne Socialists. Anyone care to support this idea?    

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6347d9 Comments

What makes you think that was humour? - There is a deal to be said for offenders to be used to do community projects and to wear something (not necessarily chains) so that people can see reparation being made. Of all things what means more to some of the young thugs is street cred., wearing a brightly coloured jacket/tabard that identifies them for what they are and what they're doing would be very humiliating, and might just be a lesson learned.

Vanessa Smith ● 6345d

SarahSome topics need serious responses not humour!

Account suspended ● 6345d

Chain gangs - lots and lots of them!  :-)

Sarah Felstead ● 6345d

Steve"legalisation and control over distribution is the only way forward I believe, much the same as with cigarettes and alcohol"Agreed.......I certainly do not.We cannot even stop shopkeepers selling cigarettes and alcohol to children now.Do you not think that children would be tempted to try it! Where and how is this control managed at the moment, can you imagine the mayhem that would result if we adopted that initiative now? More people would be tempted to try it I am sure. Mind altering drugs should remain illegal IMHO

Account suspended ● 6345d

No Vanessa...read it again. Stop getting your knickers in a twist. I did not suggest that YOU or anyone else said that pensioners  "count for nothing", my perception from the report suggested that, OK?You say you are not from the hang and flog 'em brigade, but the fact that some of these scum, who think it funny to kick someone to death, and many commit more murders on their release, but tell me honestly Vanessa, if god forbid, one or more of these toerags kicked a member of your family to death in front of you or your children, what would an adequate sentence be. A lot of people say as you do, that there are other ways, but then fail to suggest an alternative, that gives justice to the victims family, and at the same time a deterrent to the rest of the community.

Account suspended ● 6345d

"legalisation and control over distribution is the only way forward I believe, much the same as with cigarettes and alcohol"Agreed

Steve Taylor ● 6345d

I don't recall either of us even hinted that the elderly 'count for nothing', as an official pensioner myself I rather resent you saying that. I have never been, and will never be, one of the hang'em and flog'em brigade, I just think there are other ways to deal with these problems. It is the same argument with bringing back the death penalty, America executes more people than anyone else, apart from China I think it is, but they also have the highest prison population in the world and I would venture to guess the highest numbers of homicides, so the death penalty isn't any deterrent at all, there has to be other ways than state sanctioned barbarity, and there have to be other ways of dealing with addicts, when clearly just locking them up is not working. We all want to see safer streets and to be safe in our homes, clearly what we do now is useless, more radical solutions, thinking the unthinkable if we have to might just work if Government has the guts.

Vanessa Smith ● 6346d

"Thieves who target the vulnerable such as the elderly, may not be sent to prison in future-if it is shown they were motivated by desperation or need,  At present, such offences attract a prison sentence of at least 18 weeks!"Mick-VanessaOf course you have the right to your opinions, but what I found most offensive was that targeting the vulnerable, such as the elderly (who, it would appear count for nothingin this country!) and entering a plea of "desperation or need" is OK to get a cushier sentence! WHY?It would appear to me, that its OK to rob or assault them, but if it is anyone else, they would feel the full force of the law. Mention has been made at the cost of prisons, well for a start get rid of the game boys, TV's, computers, gymnasiums etc (if they want to get fit, some useful activity, breaking up stones would get them fit and make prison less attractive) the money saved could then be spent on rehab. Keep the violent offenders locked up, and put the other characters in refurbished abandoned army camps, perhaps guarded by the RMP outside, and prison officers inside.When a prison governor recently apologised for having "No apple sauce with the pork", my mind turned to the many outside who cannot afford pork, and the service people eating rubbish........Great Britain in the 21st century.The reason that harsher methods in prisons are not working,is simply the Human Rights Act, which protects the criminal and ignores the victim, get rid of the PC tree huggers, and we may just have a chance of getting it right!

Account suspended ● 6346d

Agree with everything you've said - however I still think we need someone with some real guts to realise that everything we do and have done to combat drug addiction hasn't worked. We are throwing God knows how much money at this - legalisation and control over distribution is the only way forward I believe, much the same as with cigarettes and alcohol, does anyone think they'd be socially acceptable if they were new on the streets? I very much doubt it. Drugs feed into prostitution, people trafficking and all sorts of criminal activity legalisation could stop that at a stroke.

Vanessa Smith ● 6346d

Given that our already overcrowded (and incredibly expensive) prison system is bursting at the seams, I wouldn't have a problem with the increased use of community orders. What we should be looking at is how those community orders are structured, and ensuring that they are not a "cushy" alternative, but a really well structured, strongly disciplined and meaningful piece of work. This tougher regime should go hand in hand with effective treatment for addicts. After all, if you don't stop the addiction, you don't stop the crime. No heroin or crack addict (unless they are a GP or city high flyer) can earn enough legitimately to sustain a heavy addiction, so from their perspective, crime is the only option. Run properly, a two-pronged approach combining disciplined work in the community with effective treatment, will be much more effective (and a lot cheaper) than the expensive alternative of prison (where drugs are more widely available than on our streets - and that's saying something!) and from which addicts are released, still addicted, to carry on their criminal lifestyle.Knee-jerk emotional responses and the "hang 'em and flog 'em" approach don't actually achieve anything other than confirming criminals in their criminal lifestyle and, incidentally, teaching them how to be more effective criminals. I have nothing against harsh methods as long as they work. At the moment, that is the problem, such methods are not working and we need to look at more effective methods of stopping crime.

Mick Brent ● 6346d