Forum Topic

Meeting Osterley Hotel May 10th

“We are the residents of the London Borough of Hounslow. As you are aware, enforcement actions have been carried out by the London Borough of Hounslow’s Planning Department, against law abiding citizens of our borough. This has been a very disturbing development within our council. We are extremely concerned about this and would like to inform you, that we are holding a meeting to discuss these issues on Saturday the l0th of May at the Osterley Park Hotel at Great West Road from 11am to 1pm.We would be extremely grateful if you would grace us with your presence, so that you may heart he views of the local people that you represent within our council.”I understand that all Councillors in Hounslow received the above communication, and when I read it, it left me puzzled. They talk about a "disturbing development" and "enforcement actions being carried out by the planning department, against "law abiding citizens". It would appear to me as I read it, that the planning department are either acting illegally with their enforcement notices, or that they (the residents') want special/different treatment to the rest of the borough. By default, if they are "law abiding" they would not erect structures without planning permission, and any such structures should be within the planning regulations! My experience is, that councillors have to agree these enforcement notices, and I am sure that someone from the legal department would have had an input if the planners had acted illegally, before any action was taken...........or have I got it wrong? Many councillors attended this meeting, was the issue such a "serious allegation"Has anybody (councillors?) got any information about the outcome of this meeting, and the reasoning behind it? I note that Alan Keen attended, but cannot attend the Hounslow Police Consultative Group meeting EVER!!!

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6284d20 Comments

The man is a plank - and that's being kind about it! If Alan Keen was aware of this, and I have to say I wasn't, and I do doubt it was the case, then why in heaven's name did he not take it up with the Chief Exec. or senior planning officers? You cannot apply legislation to suit, it is outrageous, and I'm not surprised Adam is furious, so would I be. What really bugs me is that for years we've had 'equal opportunites' shoved up our noses,yet we are led to believe that they don't apply and people, presumably elected members,are prepared to overlook it if it benefits them.

Vanessa Smith ● 6278d

http://bowenblog.wordpress.com/

Paul Fisher ● 6278d

Couldn't see anything re this meeting.

Vanessa Smith ● 6278d

The Chronicle doesn't mention Alan Keen at all, and it does point out that every independent review has supported the council. I just find people complaining that they've been caught out for doing something wrong and penalised quite bizarre, I wonder if they take the same view on robbery and burglary for example? For those people who do go through the proper processes and pay for the privilege this type of behaviour is very galling. It also brings into question if any of these people had building regs. too.

Vanessa Smith ● 6282d

Not seen the Chronicle as yet today.  If Alan Keen's comments as are reported on Councillor Bowen's blog, then to me this is a relatively simple case of slander.If, as reported, he stated that until 2 years the Council took a lenient view on planning matters concerning extended or Punjabi families, then this implies, beyond doubt, that Council Officers took such a stance.If Council Officers took such a stance, they would firstly have been acting in breach of both national planning legislation (requiring both planning applications and enforcement matters to be assessed on development plan policies and all other material planning considerations).  Secondly they would have been acting in breach of their contract of employment with Hounslow Council.  Thirdly, those Officers (like myself) who are Members of the Royal Town Planning Institute would also have been acting outside our terms of membership.  Consequently, to me there can be little doubt that to make the comment Mr. Keen is alleged to have made, he has brought into question the professional reputation and integrity of both myself and other Council Planning Officers (who I am not acting on behalf of or in association with) from more than 2 years ago.  Therefore he either has evidence to substantiate those comments, or he has slandered myself and those other Officers and should publicly retract those comments made without foundation and apologise.  If he does neither, I certainly intend to take it further.

Adam Beamish ● 6282d

For what it's worth I happen to think that this is one thing that this council have got right, and it was also one of the issues I left the Labour party over. I used to find the attitude of some of my 'colleagues' very frustrating and embarrassing and it left officers in a very invidious position. I doubt it was officers who operated any sort of different policy at one end of the borough, rather they were 'leaned on' by certain individuals as was tried with some planning committee members. Personally it just got right up my nose and I did report instances to senior officers at the time. The law is the law and if you break it you expect the penalty and frankly citing language difficulties as has been said in todays Chronicle is clutching at straws and insulting.

Vanessa Smith ● 6282d

I wasn't there, so any information I have is second hand.  But my understanding is that Mr. Keen stated publicly that under the old administration a different policy was operated at one end of the borough, and/or in respect of one community, than was applied to others.If this is what he said then he was, in my view and clearly in Adam's also, implicating council officers in what was probably an unlawful act.

Phil Andrews ● 6282d

Have you read Mark Bowens blog Vanessa?

Paul Fisher ● 6282d

What did Alan Keen say that was so awful?

Vanessa Smith ● 6282d

AdamI wish you well with the action you are undertaking with Alan Keen. I/we would be interested to hear if you get any sort of response from him!

Account suspended ● 6283d

Based on everything I've read so far I have no option but to write a without prejudice letter to Alan Keen (a man I have never personally met nor had any verbal dialogue with) requiring him to either substantiate comments he made to a public meeting that appear to have been accurately recorded, or to provide a public apology that such comments were without foundation.  Failure to do one or the other will result in legal proceedings.The additional irony in all of this is that the vast majority of prosecutions that have occurred in the last 18 months relating to enforcement notices relate to notices that were actually issued during my tenure with LBH - for example the biggest fine resulted from an investigation that commenced in 2003 & was the subject of an enforcement notice in 2005.  Hence this hardly supports the claim that until 2 years ago LBH took a more 'lenient' view.Despite what might be perceived as a 'dig' at certain Councillors in one of my earlier posts, as I've mentioned before publicly I thoroughly enjoyed working with all the Councillors whilst in the employment of LBH, regardless of which political party they represented.

Adam Beamish ● 6284d

"Given that I left the Council just under 2 years ago it is consequently inferred by such comments that both myself and my team at that time behaved in such a manner - if formal minutes to that effect see the light of day I might have to go see a solicitor..."Hi AdamI can vouch for you and your team, in that you treated every case based on there merits, often in very difficult circumstances........by that I mean trying to convince some councillors, who knew full well, that some applications were way out of line with regulations, and were hell bent on passing it in spite of this, even when the legal team were also pulling their hair out attempting to explain the law to them.I well remember one particular committee member who built a structure without planning permission, uprooted trees in a conservation area...and had the brass neck to deny a neighbour permission for a shed. But one should not be surprised, after all he was a New Labour man! It is these people who were inconsistent and lenient.

Account suspended ● 6284d

One final thing - reading Cllr. Bowen's blog & the apparent comments of Alan Keen MP, gives the impression that until 2 years ago the planning enforcement team was far more 'lenient' than it was now.  Given that I left the Council just under 2 years ago it is consequently inferred by such comments that both myself and my team at that time behaved in such a manner - if formal minutes to that effect see the light of day I might have to go see a solicitor...

Adam Beamish ● 6284d

The one thing I will say is that to do something that requires planning permission without that permission isn't a criminal act.  The criminal act only takes place when a recipient of such a notice doesn't comply with its requirements.  The notice doesn't take effect if an appeal is lodged against it, and one of the grounds for appeal is that a breach of planning control hasn't occurred.  So the only times these 'law abiding' citizens stop being law abiding is when they don't exercise their statutory right to appeal against the notice and also choose (after all no-one is forcing them to do so) not to comply with the requirements of the enforcement notice.Of course a cynic might point out that most of the Councillors who appeared to support this notion sat on a committee recently stripped of its enforcement decision making powers...but I couldn't possibly comment :)

Adam Beamish ● 6284d

Curious stuff, shame I didn't know about this before, I'd have loved to have gone along & say afew things !.

Adam Beamish ● 6284d

Well Cllr Bowens blog certainly shocked me and I think Alan Keen should be made to explain his remarks.

Paul Fisher ● 6284d

If Alan Keen attended then there must be something in it for him as neither of the Keens believe in a free lunch so expect some mass media frenzy shortly,though not regarding their expenses or 2nd home of course.I understand that yet again the Keens both failed to attend last nights Police Consultative Group meeting despite it being held in Brentford.Still its only seven years now that neither have attended so not time to worry yet!!

Paul Fisher ● 6284d

There is some information about this meeting on Mark Bowen's blog at http://bowenblog.wordpress.com.

Phil Andrews ● 6284d

I am glad that we now have an administration that upholds the planning regulations and are prepared to act on them. I have, as I have often said, attended many of these planning meetings, and one would have had to be both blind and deaf, not to have seen or heard what was happening in our borough at that time.I sincerely hope that this does not become a "racial" issue, like the Hounslow Racial Equality Councils' perception that the 3rd runway would possibly only affect "ethnic minorities" I would remind Alan Keen and Labour councillors, that the laws of the land apply to everyone.........regardless! They are there to protect us all, not just one section of the community.

Account suspended ● 6284d

Andrew,I did receive an invitation to this event but unfortunately was away so could not attend even if I wished to. You are quite correct that councillors have to agree Officers enforcement recommendations at Area Committee level so I fail to see why the planning dept were the focus of the complaints when quite simply if you erect a structure legally then what have you to worry about?

Paul Fisher ● 6284d