Forum Topic

Council Tax office

I have tried to contact someone human in this office yesterday and today,after being told by recorded message that someone will answer me "shortly" (can someone explain exactly what "shortly2 means in this context?) I gave up trying in the end. My question is "Do people find it easier to get an audience with the Pope, than they do with this godforsaken department? I wish someone would also change the bloody music that is played, while the dead are awakened, which I am convinced is to act as a deterrent, to anyone having the temerity to phone them.Is it also beyond the wit of some bright spark at the Civic Centre, to add a message, to enlighten you where you are in the queue to speak to someone from customer services. Last of all, can any councillor find out how many callers drop out from their call, without speaking to someone first?

Andrew Michael John Atkinson ● 6342d26 Comments

Thanks Steve, much appreciated :-)

Adam Beamish ● 6308d

If there is one thing that I should have made clear when I first posted on this thread is that I was very concerned about Andy's experience.  He and I have since spoken and it is up to him whether he wishes to make that discussion public."Thank you - this is appreciated but I think transparency in dealing with matters such as Andrew's would go a long way to convince the whole community that Council Leaders are in touch with the reality of the situation."I offered you this 1-2-1 exchange because you said, "I would be happy to post my bad experiences of your "eforms"  and lack of response to complaints but they would probably bore everyone."  I took this to mean that you did not want to discuss over the forum.  My offer remains open and I would also be interested in hearing more about the case you mention.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6309d

"On a positive note I cite the positive and most helpful contributions and comments made on this forum by Cllrs Matt Harmer and Jon Hardy and the helpful and proactive information as always supplied by Officer Chris Calvi- Freeman. These are much appreciated"..........and not forgetting the informative contributions made by Adam Beamish whose insider knowledge of Council is always enlightening, constructive and helpful.

Steve Taylor ● 6309d

"With respect, I do not follow the first paragraph."With respect I don't follow why you don't follow my first paragraph! Conclusion = Termination; final result; inference; decision; (logic) proposition deduced;Conclude =  bring to an end; come to a conclusion"I have emailed Andy as I said I would.  You are mistaken."It is excellent that you have emailed Andy but one would have thought that as this is an 'open forum'  your remarks/comments could be transparent for all to see. Interested parties could then draw their own conclusions as to who is or isn't mistaken. "I would be interested to understand more about this.  Do you mean that it does not work technically or your complaints are not taken seriously?"I believe the complaints are taken seriously but there appears to be more of a tick box regime than a management system which effectively deals with the complaints. When I say the "system doesn't work" its because complaints get passed from pillar to post without active engagement. eg. a single complaint on a single subject generated no fewer than 5 different reference numbers and was 'looked at and responded to without effective result'  by  four different officers!"Please feel free to PM or email me and I will be happy to discuss and look into your concerns."Thank you - this is appreciated but I think transparency in dealing with matters such as Andrew's would go a long way to convince the whole community that Council Leaders are in touch with the reality of the situation.On a positive note I cite the positive and most helpful contributions and comments made on this forum by Cllrs Matt Harmer and Jon Hardy and the helpful and proactive information as always supplied by Officer Chris Calvi- Freeman. These are much appreciated

Steve Taylor ● 6309d

Steve - I so understand your anger.  Having been badly mistreated by both Hounslow and Ealing Council and tried every avenue of complaint, including Councillors,  without success, it makes your blood boil when people make it sounds so simple.  Yes it appears everything is in place but it would drive you to drink trying to implement any of them.  No I don't want to talk about it!!

Maggie Dodge ● 6310d

With respect, I do not follow the first paragraph."The link suggested by Cllr Bowen as a channel for complaints is an opt out"I have emailed Andy as I said I would.  You are mistaken."and it simply doesn't work."I would be interested to understand more about this.  Do you mean that it does not work technically or your complaints are not taken seriously?"I would be happy to post my bad experiences of your "eforms"  and lack of response to complaints but they would probably bore everyone."Please feel free to PM or email me and I will be happy to discuss and look into your concerns.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6312d

"Your conclusion is mistaken." Cllr Bowen has displayed a little stupidity with his previous one worded response  but now he has switched to plain arrogance.  Whether the Cllr likes it or not we mortals can draw our own conclusions. My conclusion is my conclusion and is thus correct because I have concluded it.  I have always suggested to residents that if they are dissatisfied with the performance of the Council or that they do not receive the service that they deserve they should ring up and complain and if they still don't receive the service they should write to the media and use forums such as these to share their dissatisfaction with the community. The link suggested by Cllr Bowen as a channel for complaints is an opt out and it simply doesn't work. Forget it Cllr and come down from cloud cuckoo land.  People want to deal with people. You really are out of touch with the real world out here aren't you? I would be happy to post my bad experiences of your "eforms"  and lack of response to complaints but they would probably bore everyone. 

Steve Taylor ● 6312d

Good point!My advice to constituents has always been to do things in writing and, preferably, to get reference numbers.  The paper/email trail should be in the interests of all.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6312d

Your conclusion is mistaken.  If I did not care, I would not taken the time to post on the forum and suggest to Andrew - whom I know personally - that there is possibly an *alternative* way to achieve a positive outcome.I have always suggested to residents that if they are dissatisfied with the performance of the Council or that they do not receive the service that they deserve, they should make a complaint.  This can be done on the following link:http://eforms.hounslow.gov.uk/ufs/ufsmain?esessionid=1&formid=COMPLAINTS_FORM&esessionid=1Andrew - will send you an email.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6312d

"Mark - Did you not read the original post, Andrew wished to speak to a human!""Yes" What a stupid response from a Deputy Leader of a Council. And it wasn't even an electronic or auto response!  The conclusion to be drawn is that the Deputy Leader read the post and simply doesn't care and that Andrew will in fact  'find it easier to get an audience with the Pope, than he does with this godforsaken department'

Steve Taylor ● 6313d

And, to be fair, an email can prove far more useful in terms of being able to supply a paper trail if you don't get a response - if I'm chasing a response I usually both phone and email.

Adam Beamish ● 6314d

"Did you not read the original post"Yes.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6314d

I tend to find most authorities these days have introduced call centres.  Of course the authorities will say that they are committed to their customers and the introduction of the call centre is a positive step for all, but in reality all the call centre does is assist the Council in achieving high performance target indicators relating to how soon the call is answered.The fact is that in most cases the person within the call centre won't be able to assist you, and you will then end up being put on hold for several minutes, put through to completely the wrong department or not be given good quality advice - but of course that isn't measured by any performance indicator so it doesn't matter.I'm not identidying Hounslow as being one of the culprits here, but I could easily name several London authorities that operate as follows :1) There's a general call centre followed by a departmental call centre, with the departmental one responsible for logging calls and trying to put you through to the right person (by which time usually at least 3 minutes has elapsed).2) There is no onus on the Officer to accept a call from the departmental call centre, and the system operates whereby the Officer is supposed to ring you back within 2 working days of your call (usually at least 5 minutes has elapsed at this point).3) Most of the time the Officers don't ring you back within 2 working days.  Officers are also under strict instructions not to, under any circumstances, give out their direct lines to a member of the public - I mean that would make things far too easy wouldn't it ?.It is an absolute farce that the same places then 'boast' about how 97% of calls are answered within 4 rings.  I can only smile when I ring the particular Council I am thinking of and the departmental call centre message brags about how the opening hours of the call centre have been extended as though that is of use - the call centre could be open 24/7 but if the Officer I want to speak with isn't there or can't be arsed to take a call, and I don't have and can't be provided with a direct line, then the call centre is entirely pointless.And this from someone who tries to be reasonable and often defends Councils from criticism !.

Adam Beamish ● 6314d

MarkDid you not read the original post, Andrew wished to speak to a human!Please don't tell me  - eforms are supposed to be more efficient.

Alice Taylor ● 6314d

"Quite often, an alternative to calling, especially for those who do not have internet access, is to use one of the many eForms:"Yes I also thought it a bit odd to suggest that those who don't have internet access to use an eForm!!!.Matter clarified now though but I also suggest the 'phone early in the morning' idea to be a good one as the offices seem to be deserted after lunch.  Especially irritating since the Council adopted a standard cut and paste footer which reads "I trust that this is self explanatory and should you wish to discuss the matter further please do not hesitate to contact me by e-mail or on 020-8583-5...."When one does want to discuss the matter the phone rings and rings and rings..............

Steve Taylor ● 6336d

Correction:"Quite often, an alternative to calling, especially for those who do not have internet access, is to use one of the many eForms:"Should be:"Quite often, an alternative to calling, especially for those who have internet access, is to use one of the many eForms:"Sorry for the mistype.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6337d

It is also rather likely that someone reading a posting on an online message board would indeed have internet access!

Keith Welham ● 6337d

I am not certain what is to not understand?  I made reference to it being an alternative, especially for those who have internet access.As for the location of the eForms, I provided a link to all of them.  Did you try the link?

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6339d

I really don't understand the response from Cllr. Bowen.If you don't have internet access then how can someone use the e-form as they are only accessable via web address?Also, having looked on Hounslow's web-site, I don't think these e-forms are very easy to locate.  I couldn't find them.As to the phone thingy.  I've found phoning within minutes of the advertised opening hours usually results with the phone being answered and then query being dealt with in a most agreeable manner by person answering the phone.  Phone in the the late morning/afternoon and all that I've ever got is a recorded message stating 'all lines are busy and please try later'.

S Passmore ● 6339d

LOL Im sure you both are

Victor Mullins ● 6341d

VictorThank you for the clarification.  The point you make is a reasonable one but I can assure you that many of us do precisely this already.  All the same it is always helpful when difficulties such as those being experienced by Andrew are flagged up to us, because it helps us to identify problems and to rectify them.On a lighter note I would also like to reassure you that I am myself quite a normal person and, other than for his regrettable organisational allegiance, so is Matt.

Phil Andrews ● 6341d

My point being is that waiting on the line for consderable ammounts of time these days is now getting more common Im sure councillors have direct lines so dont have the problems that normal people do So my thought was now and again ring the offices using normal channels and get an idea if the departments are getting snowed under

Victor Mullins ● 6341d

Quite often, an alternative to calling, especially for those who do not have internet access, is to use one of the many eForms:http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/index/online_forms.htmYou do not say exactly what you required from the department but you will see a number of Council Tax related forms under 'C'.I am always interested in feedback if you, or anyone else, have any about the eForms.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 6341d

VictorWith due respect, I can't see what Matt has said or done to warrant a response of this kind.  From where I'm sitting he has simply offered to help.

Phil Andrews ● 6341d

One day these councillors will just try to ring the same way as normal people and find out for themselves Maybe walk down a few streets drive around other ways golly it becomes all so difficult

Victor Mullins ● 6341d

Michael, it's a fair question and I'll try to find the answer.Most importantly, I'd be happy to raise your enquiry and seek an answer. I have found the senior officers in this department to be helpful, so if you want to email me (by clicking my name or by emailing matt.harmer@hounslow.gov.uk) I will do everything I can to help.Best regardsMattCllr Matt Harmer, Brentford ward

Matt Harmer ● 6341d