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AdamWell, I personally don't believe that "spin" - the art of saying one thing whilst purposely giving an impression that one is something different - is something we are obliged to accept in our politics.  However the statement in this leaflet is not spin, it is a lie.  The claim that "only a good Labour turnout" can prevent a BNP victory is patently false when the plain and simple fact is that any vote for any party other than the BNP has equal value where the objective is to prevent the BNP from winning a seat.If I seem a tad miffed by this I would ask you to put yourself into my shoes for just a moment.  This afternoon, at the exact same time that Labour's Robin Taylor was posting on this forum that I was a fascist and a closet BNP supporter, I was in Brentford with several colleagues distributing hundreds of eve-of-election leaflets urging people to vote to keep out the BNP.  Then I returned home to find that Ann K££n, the heroine of the internet warriors on this forum, has published a statement which effectively tells any anti-fascists who are not planning to vote Labour that their votes count for nothing and that they therefore don't need to bother turning out.  An act which would have the effect of making the BNP's percentage share of the vote stronger by default.  Any yet these are the people who, probably more than anybody else, have to gall to try to lecture us lesser beings about racism, and assume for themselves the right to decide who is and not clean on the subject.Can you not appreciate the sheer irony of it all?Voters who want to keep the BNP out should cast their votes tomorrow for any candidate other than the BNP.  For those whose preference happens to be for Labour, fair enough.  But it is quite wrong for Labour campaigners to try to tell electors that a vote for their party has more currency as an anti-BNP vote than a vote for the Conservatives, the Lib Dems, the Greens, UKIP, the Jury Team or whoever.  Why can't these people, for once, just be straight with the voters whose trust it is they seek?

Phil Andrews ● 6365d

I did say it was late, the thing with dyslexia i have to re-read and re-read the line to look for missing words or back to front words like teh instaead of the or b instead of p and many others snags, then comes words which I would like to use but just cant see the formalation of the word and it may be simple words or complicated ones, which knocks the grammer on the head as I have to find another way of expressing what I want to say.I thought you may of run into the Manchester boys at some point I had many friends from Hulme Mosside in that gang, the diffreance was many where just working class kids with no real politics except hating racists many where from the Irish community there where of course those who just in enjoyed a good ruck, a word you may not of heard in many years, there where some who had some politics, the thing and again in the riots of Mosside of 1981 I think thats the year the riots it was a whole community that was angry the funny thing has allways been it did not matter who,what and skin colour or race, creed you could be whatever and no one was going to treat you as an outsider we where all poor jobless and in the same boat,In saying that it was very very differrant in Oldham and Ashton, where the communities became divided and more so in 2004 - 2006 most of the problems where are around the lack of money jobs and many other social problems as the cotton mills closed as many of the pakistan community came to fill the jobs in the mills, jobs that the local community would no longer do. It is no surprise that 40% of Oldham benifited from the minimum wage,the reality was most average wages before ranged from 1.75 an hour to 3.00 I kid you not.In Hounslow we have money and jobs in thanks largly to the airport and on the whole a more mixed community which is a blessing our schools and housing stock are much better then most inner/outer london areas, we have a community that for the most part see education and being able to aspire to a better life a reality, however that is not to say we have do not have problems, we have a growing underclass of kids who are not motivated to do better, we have still on some estates the housing stock needing major upgrades and so on, we have a class of people who having aspired now want to pull the rungs of the ladder so other cant climb higher, ( The last statement is in not a dig at tories but of a an attitude), these are the things that made me get involved with politics, trying to make life better for everyone and being or trying to help other reach the next rung of the ladder rather than kick the ladder away. This what helps define me define my Labour politics. ( I am sure I will now get a barrage of god only knows what replies), these days I get more pleasure in working directly with the community and community projects and as I have said before when doing so my politics are my own and not a means of converting others.

Dave Hughes ● 6364d

Ha ha I know what you mean when using fellow person, I had something like that the other day by using an old saying it was do I or dont I use knowing somebody is going to take offence at context,I know with large parties you can never be happy with all policies of that party however so long as there are ways in which you can make change via a democratic process, it is up to the person to use the process to convince others of your case for change, that is not say the Labour movement is perfect sometimes it feels far from it, the labour movement locally and national has to re-connect with the communities, it also has a rule book which can't be underestimated as it serves to protect the party and the member as well, but again in its application it to is a long process in which a member has protections from in-justice and in light of the speed and fast 2 min sound bites of todays politics can be very cumbersome. In effect small parties have advantages but equally so do they have dis-advantage in the same way, I know you have stated your party has no whip but I can see a time lets say you got more and more members and at some point you would need to hold a party position rather than an individual one, I know there are many arguements about this but this is a genaral observation regards whips, you the have to create the internal structure for such operation and policy, the politics of today is much centered on the cult of personality, for me I vote for the party not the person, politics in sence should be not be personal, "its politics its not personal", so much of whats going on at the moment is such cult of personality in all parties rather than policy the real stories and the real politics weather it be local national and european are not being discussed and dis-engagement by the community to be involved has reached such a levels there are real dangers in what people understand in terms of what they vote for or understanding what it is they have voted in as the dire consequence of doing so in ignorance.The problem in which the ICG have and again this is just a genaral observation and not a dig at you, is ok you have riled at the Labour party as the ones being in charge and the ones who should change in order to concede change for the people of Isleworth, ok that in some way has happened as now The ICG are in charge, the concept is still hard to understand that what now does the ICG stand for as far as the people are concerned, is it just going to carry on Labour bashing has it an agenda for the future does it have a manifesto may be this has become a bad word lets try policy, for the community of Isleworth are the ICG fighting for comunity provision, so you can understand why the hostility maybe its time for the ICG to make clear statements of its purpose other wise it will remain just what looks like the blunt tool of the tories, however at some point the tories have to end your days by putting candidates forward in your areas if they dont they risk looking like a weak limping party I doubt very much at the next election this will happen for many political reasons.Please except this is not a meant to be ICG bashing Phil, what do you see the future as out of intrest, I ask as for once as a constructive dialog.

Dave Hughes ● 6364d

Again I was thinking about this last night and a story in the local news-paper which I not sure was fair but again due to not knowing the full facts I can't make my mind up if it was the paper trying to sensationalise a story. Of course this is in your ball park of community cohesion I take it you are lead member now, It got me wondering many of these policies are national goverment policies being driven into local goverment just as much when I took on lead member for crime and disorder to drive the policy change, these again I know you will hate this are Labour policies and in effect you would be driving labour policy, dont worry there are many other tory and lib-dems Cllrs across the country doing the same, It must irk you a little bit, but I must also say that the change Hounslow is engaged in sounds really positive and I was surprised by the news story in which Hounslow was being recognised for its contribution and thinking in terms of policy implementation, I dont want to get into the usual well our admistration is better than yours, this is again just genaral observation, I know when I did the crime and dis-order as lead member the policy coming from national goverment had some really good stuff in it as a policy in a new direction for community policing, again this I am not trying to get into the overall party political arguments of the policies, the observation is that when it comes to implementation the role of cllrs to drive change and come up with new thinking or ideas can come into play and if you have good officers at the council who can bring in experiance, new ideas, positive drive to move the policy into practise quickly, indeed you are lucky. I remember with the chance I had there where many more things I would of like to have driven into opperation but it was of what case of could be done and resource implications, I would like to beleive we have a better relationship with the police and the community working together and at area committee level reports and the question of dialog in tackling problems at a local level, as I said I wish that some more could of been done.Do you have any thoughts? in genaral as it is a big subject area.

Dave Hughes ● 6364d

DavidSorry, I've been meaning to respond to this since Friday but there's so much here.  Community cohesion has always led by Peter Thompson during this administration, but I have deputised closely and Paul Fisher now assumes that mantle as I have stood down from the Executive.I'm totally aware that some of what I have been driving mirrors Labour policy nationally.  Contrary to what you would seem to think I have no problem with this at all.  In fact, some of this work was being done locally prior to the change of administration too.  I have seen (indeed was a signatory to) a booklet produced under Amritpal Mann's leadership which, other than for a relatively minor shift in emphasis, could easy have served as a blueprint for much of the work we are doing now. It is my view that there is a common agenda which most arms of government, national and local, seem to be generally pursuing whether they are Labour controlled, Conservative, Lib Dem, independent, NOC or whatever.  In spite of this I believe the current administration ast Hounslow can still take pride in the way it has taken up the baton and continued to drive this work forward since 2006.  If you follow these issues you will be aware that there is more than one view of how cohesion can be achieved and there is a school of thought which seems to suggest that it is all about ignoring difference without addressing disadvantage.  I on the other hand take the view, as I suspect you do, that a cohesive society cannot be achieved without disadvantage and disengagement having first been addressed.

Phil Andrews ● 6362d

DavidI hear what you say, in fact your colleague Alan Sheerins used to make the same argument - that as the ICG grows it will be compelled to adopt a party whip at some point.All this rests on one, erroneous assumption, and that its that the ICG is a political party in the mould of other political parties and that it aspires to emulate the more established parties such as your own.If you are in the game of predicting where the ICG is likely to be at some point in the future then it is necessary to know where we have been and how we have come to be where we are now.I can only repeat what we have said in the past, that rather than being a political party we are in essence a community group which has pursued the electoral road as a tactical choice in reaction to given circumstances rather than an organisation set up for the purpose of acquiring political power.Under other circumstances we could operate more in the manner of a residents' association or a civic society without participating in elections.  That is why I can't foresee a "party whip" ever developing, notwithstanding the fact that as a group of councillos we do attempt to achieve consensus before walking into the Council Chamber.As for where we go from here, our simple brief is to change the culture of the council in a way that recognises the supreme authority of the community we represent.  Despite having been in office for three years I do not believe we have changed things anything like as much as we would need to to bring that about, and as such our present assignment is far from complete.Insofar as we still engage in "Labour bashing", I guess we are embroiled in a complex battle to drag those who are with us forward in the direction in which we wish to head, whilst constantly having to beat off those who would drag as back to where we started.  As you can imagine our efforts are greeted with varying levels of enthusiasm at the Civic Centre, with some officers very enthusiastic and keen to help, and others who seem to think they only have to keep up the resistance for another few months before we are all sidetracked into an election campaign after which we'll no longer be in a position to trouble them.  The history of the ICG is littered with the miscalculations of those who would wish us ill.I think this is a clear statement of our purpose.  The problem for some is that they either can't or won't acknoweldge that purpose, and still insist on considering us as though we were nothing more or less than a local political party.  Every ensuing misapprehension derives entirely from that.

Phil Andrews ● 6362d