Forum Topic

Conservatives only just win Hounslow Euro Election

13926  Conservatives  12578  Labour 5687  UKIP 5469  Lib Dem2678   BNPTotal Votes cast 50647 of which Postal Votes cast totaled 14,469!

Jim Lawes ● 6198d49 Comments

Andrew.I'm not an expert on the law but I really don't think Dan has anything to worry about.Phil threatened us in the Anti Nazi League with legal action back in 1993/4. We still haven't received the writ.He took the Isleworth Ward Labour candidates to court over a leaflet they allegedly distributed in 2002. His efforts failed.There is no statutory obligation on anyone to agree with Phil's claim that he turned his back on the far right in 1991. IMHO the timing of his meeting with Griffin and Brons is pretty irrelevant.Take the case of Phil's association with the late Tom Reader: they were pals in 1987 (when they both fought against the removal of NF member Alan Minehan from the NITA committee) and they remained allies right up until Tom died in 2003. In fact, Tom's photo adorns Phil's blog.The essential problem with Phil (and this is why organisations like Searchlight have not taken his "conversion" at face value) is that he did not discontinue all of the political associations that he had prior to 1991 after that date.Therein lies the problem.

Robin Taylor ● 6190d

"The great irony for me is that the last time I saw Nick Griffin and Andrew Brons together we were sitting around a table in a private room in Slough embroiled in a bitter argument which would result in a deep factional split during which Griffin would publicly accuse Brons of being an agent working for MI5.  Clearly times heals!"Dan, is this the quote you were referring to, made in the early hours on the 8th of June.  If so I have to admit I don't see anything in it that suggests the meeting took place post 1991.Is the significance of this date the fact that Andrews claims to have denounced his right wing views in that year?  If so please forgive me for chipping in, but I know a bit about law.  The date is significant, if my understanding is right, because what you are suggesting is that he is telling lies about his change of direction post 1991. If he carries out his threat you will need to substantiate that, it won't be enough just to say what difference does it make whether it was before 1991 or after, because he has admitted to right wing allegiances before that date and denied having them afterwards. You are calling him a liar, and a court would want to see some evidence.Please forgive me for saying it but you need to master the art of innuendo.  Robin Taylor has it off to a tea, he would have said something like "people believe your meeting took place after 1991", which would have had the effect you wanted but would not have been open to challenge because it is just a statement of opinion. I don't support Andrews or his party but he fields a lot of allegations and it is not difficult to imagine him seizing the opportunity if you make a clumsy one.Just my tuppeny worth, so please don't stone the messenger!

Andrew Penty ● 6190d

"Retract it or take the consequences, because consequences there will be"Ooh, er. Grow up.

Dan Filson ● 6190d

"Retract it or take the consequences, because consequences there will be"Ooh, er. Grow up.

Dan Filson ● 6190d

"Retract it or take the consequences, because consequences there will be"Ooh, er. Grow up.

Dan Filson ● 6190d

"Retract it or take the consequences, because consequences there will be"Ooh, er. Grow up.

Dan Filson ● 6190d

Don't come the old bravado Dan, it just doesn't work with me.  You posted an allegation on this forum which I have asked you to substantiate or withdraw.There was absolutely nothing in my reference to my meeting with Brons and Griffin with implied that it took place after I had renounced the far right, this was an interpretation which, in the manner of your kind, you have chosen to place on it in order to try to score a political point.I have no intention of entering into any further dialogue with you on this.  Retract it or take the consequences, because consequences there will be.

Phil Andrews ● 6190d

You posted in one of these Forums - I haven't got time to search quite where - that you last met Griffin and Brons around a meeting table. They're your friends, or at least Griffin is. I don't know when this was, and assumed from the context it was post-1991. When you suggested otherwise, I asked you when. I notice you don't answer on that point, and come up with the old put up, substantiate, withdraw, apologise line. Since you presuambly do know when you last met Griffin, why not just answer?

Dan Filson ● 6190d

RobinHow many times are people going to drag up Phil's past. I have been fortunate to know Phil for a few years and he has never tried to hide his past, but it is his past.A friend of mine who worked closely with Phil at LBH was very impressed with him and the work he has done within the community and my friend would be said to be a leftie.

Neil Chippendale ● 6191d

You've just displayed it yourself, Adam.

Robin Taylor ● 6191d

You tell me Dan, you posted the comment and as I see it you now have three options:1. Substantiate it.2. Withdraw it, and apologise,  or3. Sit tight and hope nothing more comes of it.For what it's worth, I would advise very strongly against Option 3.

Phil Andrews ● 6192d

Dan,In response to your first paragraph - I wouldn't say I have a disdain for politicians.  I have found that every politician, MP, Councillor etc, I have ever met either via professional work or otherwise to be, regardless of their political views, polite, engaging and friendly towards me.If I may say Dan, you also come across in your posts as having a rather 'holier than thou' attitude, which is something I do have a disdain for.Adam

Adam Beamish ● 6192d

Was that not after 1991?

Dan Filson ● 6192d

"Given he continued after 1991 to associate with some of his BNP former friends, e.g. his meeting with Griffin and Brons"Eh?  Explain please!

Phil Andrews ● 6192d

AdamYou were an officer of Hounslow council and often write with both balance and reasonableness, but with one notable characteristic common amongst council officers but by no means confined to them - a disdain for politics and politicians. There's no doubt that Robin writes with an obsessive determination to "nail" Phil Andrews, and that Phil writes with a smooth and eloquent assurance that all believe his disavowal of the BNP and all its works.The trouble is that Phil Andrews was a Nazi supporter for 15 years, not all of them obviously whilst a naive teenager. Not only was he a supporter but a participant in violent acts (not in self-defence) and confesses to this on this Forum. Given he continued after 1991 to associate with some of his BNP former friends, e.g. his meeting with Griffin and Brons, how genuine is his disavowal. And even if it is genuine, and he is a convert to the cause of peace, goodwill, good community relations across the races, honesty and local community politics, is it still appropriate for a self-confessed former Nazi thug to stand for and hold elected office?Before the war there were those who joined Mosley's New Party and left it a year or so later as Mosley turned into a Blackshirt. Some joined the Labour Party and others the Conservatives, and from both groups there those who sought and achieved elective office. I don't hold their brief membership of the New Party against them because it briefly give promise of breaking the deadlock of doing nothing during the economic slump. But Phil Andrews remained a participating thuggish member of a fascist party for longer than the Third Reich lasted under Hitler. In any decent democracy, suh a man would accept he had hashed 15 years of his life and would leave political life for others and set up earning an honest living. Talking of which, how does he earn his living?

Dan Filson ● 6192d

Like I said, I think it's somewhat pathetic on both sides.  You have your views and Phil has his.  If I may so so, the problem I have with some of your posts is that they are sometimes conveyed with this "holier than thou" type approach as though you are always right and can't accept that anyone has a contrary point of view without accusing them of being some kind of extremist.  That isn't just unique to yourself I should add, Stuart has just done exactly the same thing on the Keen petition thread, insulting people's intelligence just because they dare to express their view that his actions are futile.

Adam Beamish ● 6196d

Adam.With reference to Phil Andrews, you accuse me of "muck raking" about my opponents.There's a saying that if you can't take it then don't give it. ICG posters on this forum have regularly taken to calling the Keens "parasites" and one of them has used terms such as "idiots", "stupidness", "imbeciles" "vile", "cronies", "moronic", "spineless" and "sod off" when addressing Labour supporters.Phil himself recently described one of his opponents as a "repulsive ass" and has even gone back to an event as long ago as 1964 in order to try and smear Searchlight's Gerry Gable. With regard to the local Labour Party, he had this to say on one thread: "... their arrogance, their conceit, their moral corruption, their preference for chicanery and sleight of hand over honest debate, their control-freakery, their insecurity and their all-round unpleasantness as an organisation..." before going on to describe them as a "self-serving, incestuous mob".Adam, just how polite do you think I should be in response to this type of language ..?

Robin Taylor ● 6196d

Robin,Well I've no idea if Ray and Phil are good personal friends or not, and I'm entirely sure how you can state that either unless you're stalking either of them.Incidentially I think some of the things my parents say are incredibly right-wing and unreasonable, but I haven't disowned them because of it.When I read some of these threads it reminds me how pathetic politics is.  You don't take Phil's conversion at face value, fair enough, you're entitled to your view, but I don't see how simply trying to much spread about your oppoents is a reasonable strategy.  Yeah Phil is guilty of sometimes doing the same, but in his defence he doesn't half take some flak off a minority for events that were several years ago.  Yet any criticism of the Keens, which is current, attracts condemnation from you.It's like kids in the playground stuff.

Adam Beamish ● 6196d

Okay, Phil, have it your own way.

Robin Taylor ● 6196d

Adam.I'm not making any accusation about the Chronicle newspaper. They, like the HBT, have chosen to take Phil's 'conversion' at face value. Fair enough.The point about Ray Ferguson is that he is a strong vocal supporter of Phil (and they are, by all accounts, good personal friends). IMHO many of Ray's comments echo those of the far right - the very ideology that Phil claims to have left behind.

Robin Taylor ● 6196d

You need to turn Robin's probe up to 300 - he's still not making any sense at 240.

Colin Murphy ● 6196d

Robin,How is this any different to Alan Shearer and Newcastle United Football Club ?.40,000 Geordies think he's their saviour to get them back into the Premiership.  No doubt a percentage of that 40,000 aren't very nice people but does that have some reflection on Alan Shearer as a person ?.What's even worse in that example is that Mr. Shearer's track record over the last couple of months of the season illustrates how wrong those supporters are.  Phil's endeavours and actions over recent years support his claims.  What is someone in Phil's position supposed to do ? - bearing in mind by your earlier post I guess you'd be happy if Phil went round to see Ray Ferguson and threw eggs at him and damaged his property...criminal damage and assault being something you applaud, as long as it's done to the 'right' people.  You also seem to be making some kind of accusation about the Chronicle newspaper as though it has some kind of right-wing stance by daring to award a 'star letter' prize to an individual who holds particular views.

Adam Beamish ● 6196d

PaulI'm grateful for your kind words but Robin is there to be humoured. Doubtless he has you linked to someone who lives next door to somebody else who has a cousin called Jackie which is a name shared by the wife of the leader of the BNP, and he has a little chart on his bedroom wall to remind himself of the connection which he can refer to at times of optimum excitement, such as when he is preparing to write a letter to the Chronicle or post on an internet forum.He must be in his forties now.  It's time he made some friends, got out and found himself a girlfriend but he will probably settle for a new pair of heelys.

Phil Andrews ● 6196d

RobinMay I please ask if it is the Community Group in general you are obsessed about or just Cllr Phil Andrews?I am sure you have researched the backgrounds of all six of us who are Councillors and am glad that you have not yet at least not in public declared us all to be closet racists as you could not be more wrong.I can assure you that in all the years that I have known Phil I have never heard even an inkling of a racist comment let alone a hidden agenda and if I was to hear even a hint of one from him then I would immediatly resign from the ICG and go straight to the papers and shout it from the rooftops.

Paul Fisher ● 6196d

Well, Phil, it's absolutely fascinating, isn't it?There you are - this "ferocious anti-racist" - yet you continue to benefit from the enthusiastic vocal support of people who are nothing of the sort. How do you manage it?Let us take, for example, the case of Ray Ferguson. When the row between you and Ann Keen was raging in the local press (over the issue of your far right background and your suitability of otherwise for membership of the council's ruling executive) Ray wrote to the Chronicle supporting you and lambasting Ann Keen. So good was his letter judged to be that the Chronicle editor made it the "star letter of the week" and awarded him £20. Here's a taster of what it had to say:-"There is no need for an investigation into Cllr Andrews' conduct because he has proved his conversion over many years and attained the moral high ground ..." (Date of publication: May 3 2007).Quite a glittering endorsement, wouldn't you agree?But where exactly does Ray Ferguson himself stand in the political spectrum? This is an important question because it helps to inform us as to the validity of the endorsement he has given you.On August 1 2003, Ray was featured in the Brentford Chiswick and Isleworth Times as opposing a planning application for a Hindu Prayer Hall on the Staines Road in central Hounslow. (He himself lives in Bedfont). One of the arguments he advanced against the Prayer Hall was that "neighbours would not want their curtains smelling of curry".In the period 1996-2005, Ray had ...Six letters published in local newspapers attacking Hounslow Racial Equality Council; five letters attacking the Commission for Racial Equality; two letters attacking illegal immigrants; one letter demanding the removal from a lampost of an Anti-Fascist Action sticker; two letters attacking "political correctness"; eight letters attacking outsiders/asylum seekers/immigrants; thirteen letters attacking equal opportunities initiatives; seven letters attacking services to minority ethnic groups.Oh ... and two letters attacking the Anti Nazi League (with none criticising the BNP/NF or any other far right organsiation). Don't forget, now, that you yourself have been keen to imply "guilt by association" on these forums before.Personally, I would be deeply worried if I received the support of someone like Ray. But you don't need to worry, Phil - just keep avoiding the question (like you did in your last posting) and opt instead for blowing your own trumpet.

Robin Taylor ● 6196d

Well Robin, what can I say?  You have me absolutely bang to rights.  There are a few items that you have missed (in 1968 I tied a boy's shoelaces together), but you have produced enough to damn me forever.  Your post will be undoing, my constituents will all vote Labour in future and it's all thanks to you.You must admit though I've put up a good front for a long time.  I've been working undercover for the BNP since 1991.  Obviously in this present climate the BNP are completely unelectable, hence my remaining in the political closet.My disguise though was a good one.  I've played a major part in creating an organisation of some 1500 local people which pretends to stand for something it doesn't.  The other 1499 are mostly undercover BNP members themselves, except for the likes of Councillors Paul Fisher and Jon Hardy who are so dumb that I have been completely hoodwinking them for many years.  So dumb in fact, that they cannot see from almost daily contact what is obvious to Robin Taylor of Southall from a distance of many miles.What has been particularly clever about the deceit is the fact that, despite now being in power at the London Borough of Hounslow and thus in a position to unleash our true agenda upon an unsuspecting world, we have instead persisted with the deceit.All to impress Robin of Southall.I have spoken against racism at national conferences alongside a high-profile former Labour MP and the Labour leader of an East Midlands council.  I fooled them, but not Robin of Southall.I have helped drive the community cohesion agenda at the London Borough of Hounslow, even gaining Beacon Status.  Just to try to impress Robin of Southall.I have chaired what used to be the Multi-Agency Partnership Against Racial Harassment and have remodelled it into a proactive campaigning group known as Hounslow Against Racial Harassment, which launched a powerful poster and leaflet campaign and has held user surgeries for victims of racism.  I work on an almost daily basis with a committed team of officers undertaking equalities and community cohesion work, and have managed to dupe them all into thinking I'm something I'm not.  All in the vain hope of winning the favour of Robin of Southall.My colleagues and I have even given away hundreds of thousands pounds in community grants to organisations committed to working together to build a cohesive society in our borough, when what we really want to do is to divide everybody on racial lines and send half the population of the borough to another part of the world.  In so doing we've had to tread to very carefully,  lest our true agenda be exposed by the highly dangerous Robin of Southall, whose ability to win friends and influence people on local internet forums is the stuff of legend.I have fooled ministers, shadow ministers, the Institute of Community Cohesion - even the Australian High Commission.  But not Robin of Southall.  I even keep a blog, committing hours of my time to the quest of writing articles which I pray each night will win the heart of Robin of Southall but thus far, alas, he has continued to see through me.And now, defeated and dejected, rumbled by a superior intellect, I must find a hole somewhere in which to hide.  The grateful residents of Isleworth will don once again their shackles and report to their previous lords and masters for their instructions.  They will elect Ann Keen (for it is She) and flock to her home - wherever that might be - to pay homage.Your legendary detective work has won the day, Robin.  I am at your mercy, please come along to the next Borough Council meeting and tell me where I must go from here if I am to find salvation (I'm the fat guy with the beard).

Phil Andrews ● 6196d

Sorry, the reference to the Rev Paul Williamson should have read that he took Hounslow Council to court for allegedly discriminating IN FAVOUR of Asian people (not against). It's time to hit the sack ...

Robin Taylor ● 6196d

But Phil, there is no "uncritical party line." John Cruddas was on the TV tonight criticising the egg throwers. I applauded them. So exactly what is this "party line" that you speak of? And why on earth does every single issue have to be turned, by you, into an excuse to bash the Labour Party?The irony of you claiming to be an "anti-fascist" yet putting a photo tribute to the late Tom Reader next to your blog really is lost on you, isn't it?This is a man who wrote to the Brentford Chiswick & Isleworth Times explicitly stating that he opposed the removal of a National Front member from the management committee of the New Ivybridge Tenants Association (2/7/93). You were Tom's election agent at the by-election that was then taking place.Precisely how does an "anti-fascist" square his alleged ideology with a desire to allow fascists to serve on influential committees? This is the circle that you haven't managed to square.Eight months later, at the 1994 local election, you were the ICG's candidate. Three separate people at different times after the event wrote to the local press stating that they had seen you at the counting of votes exchanging greetings with the BNP's Warren Glass (who stood in a different ward to you). You never responded to the allegation. Perhaps you would like to deny it now - or is it possible that with the distance of time you would now feel able to admit it was true but that you've moved on from then?Next let's take a look at the events of 1996 (a full nineteen years after you joined the NF and five years after you claim to have turned your back on the far right). What possessed you to attend court in support of the Rev Paul Williamson (who described his politics as being "to the right of Attila the Hun" and who was alleging that Hounslow Council discriminate against Asian people)? You attended the court with Malcolm Cheney (who stated that "We certainly did not fight off the German invaders so that Britain could later be taken over without a fight by blacks, Asians and any other Johnny-come-latelys"); with Sophia Kendall (who frequently articulated her support for you and who expressed her "disgust and dismay" at the eviction of a white family who had been racially harassing their neighbours); and with Ray Ferguson, who set up the Hounslow Residents Group because he claimed that the local authority discriminated in favour of white people (and whose stated aim was the "strangulation" of equal opportunities).We can fast forward to 2001, if you like. Why on earth did you ally yourself with Cllr John Murphy, who left the Lib Dems in protest at them selecting an Asian candidate to stand alongside him in the new Hanworth Park Ward?Let's put it all in context: you joined the National Front in 1977 (at the age of fifteen). You then spent fourteen years in far right politics and then spent many more years allying yourself with a series of people with very dubious views on race. The depth of your involvement (and the length of time) is a cause for concern. By the way, if anything is 'pernicious' then IMHO it is the fact that you now appear to have taken political control of the largest housing estate in the borough (through the URA). I read a very triumphalist article that you wrote about this (in which you were rubbing Labour's nose in it) although I forget which internet site it was on.We are told that you are a changed man - but all we have is your word for it (and some very cleverly scripted articles).I do not for one moment deny that you are articulate and that you have a clever strategic mind. But neither of these things prove that your views have genuinely changed.

Robin Taylor ● 6196d

RobinThank you for your comments, they are useful.  Please allow me to respond to them individually:>>Firstly, I do not agree that those who threw eggs at that disgusting troll are guilty of "petulance". I applaud what they did and I had a good laugh at it.<>Secondly, I do not agree that that disgusting troll "was able to present himself as the champion of democracy and freedom of speech". Any normal person knows full well that he believes in neither.<>Thirdly, I do not agree with your use of the term "moderation" to describe the late Oswald Mosley (and I refuse to use the title of "Sir").<>Your blog made no mention of the innocent passer-by who was assaulted (and hospitalised) by one of Griffin's thugs today.<>Your articles are often entertaining but unfortunately I read between the lines.<

Phil Andrews ● 6196d