Forum Topic

How much has Phil Andrews really changed since his National Front days?

Well, judge for yourself ..."Just for the record, the NF is totally opposed to racial violence."- Phil Andrews, Brentford Chiswick & Isleworth Times, 07/02/86."The BNP indeed does not advocate violence, neither in point of fact does the National Front."- Phil Andrews, Brentford Forum, 30/03/09.

Robin Taylor ● 6300d75 Comments

Oh dear, Robin's getting himself all in a tiswas because even his own colleagues have begun to break ranks.Robin, would you care to quote the context in which I made the latter statement?  Or are you hoping that people will just accept it at face value without bothering ask why I said what I did?Your contempt, and by association that of the party you represent, for the intelligence of the people who read this forum knows absolutely no bounds.

Phil Andrews ● 6300d

Mr Taylor, From recently joining this forum I am amazed at your constant infantile interventions that do no good for your own points or cause.Reading through many of your entries I note that many are quite unfounded and devoid of accurate fact. In fact, you appear to have an aversion to cold facts. The good points you make are always barbed with uneccessary barbs.To find that you have no link to this town or it's residents is even more disturbing.You are not alone, the fact so many rise up to the bait you obviously have so much fun in laying, does one thing. It shows that they are little better than you. Equally disturbing.It really is tedious and tiresome and does no-one you purport to represent any favours at all. As a lifelong Labour voter, I am already disturbed enough by my Local MPs standing (and that is outside of the recent shenanigans.) Your outdated, obsessive and near libelous mud slinging is doing more damage than good and calls into question what kind of people are active in politics.I don't think I can vote for my local MP but nor can I see myself voting for others unless they refrain from stooping to your level.Can't you go and contribute to your own neighbourhood and politics rather than muddy the waters here?

Anthony Waller ● 6300d

"Devoid of accurate fact" ...?"Near libelous mud slinging" ...?Take another look at my posting. It consists of one question and two word-for-word quotations. So far from being "devoid of accurate fact" it is 100% accurate and 100% factual. Or perhaps you are another "Labour voting" ICG supporter who has a problem with facts?As for being libelous, well I await receipt of your writ with intense amusement!

Robin Taylor ● 6300d

Let me explain Robin. Your "outing" of Phil Andrews' nefarious past is pointless and boring. It has been done to death in local politics over the past decade. There can be few, if any, voters in Cllr Andrews' ward who are not aware of his past. Despite that, they have voted for him above other candidates on several occasions. My advice to you (which I know you won't take) is "Get Over It!" and move on to something more constructive.Just as a footnote, before you try the usual New Liebore technique of accusing me of being an Andrews "fellow traveller"/BNP supporter etc etc, I will admit that there is a real likelihood that Phil Andrews and I have been close to each other in the past. When I was heavily involved in anti-fascist activities, I might well have been face to face with Mr Andrews on more than one occasion at demonstrations. I have changed in the years since then, why do you deny that possibility to Mr. Andrews - or would you secretly prefer that he was still in the NF so that you could have a straw man to attack.

Mick Brent ● 6300d

The problem, Mick, is that you haven't accounted for the similarity of remark between that made by Phil in 1986 and that made by him in 2009 (as highlighted in my opening post).You will notice that I made no comment in that post about whether or not I think Phil has changed. All I did was provide factual information - in the form of two quotes - and this alone seems to have upset you.How do you account for the fact that he chooses to have a photo tribute on his blog to the man who organised an attempted National Front takeover of the New Ivybridge Tenants Association?By the way, another thing that "has been done to death in local politics over the past decade" is Ann Keen's expenses. Yet she was re-elected in 2005 despite being vociferously attacked on this issue. But I don't hear you telling her opponents to "get over it".I wonder why.For what it's worth, I created this thread as a direct response to a new anti-Keen thread that Phil had started.I'm sure that if you reply to this you will explain why any criticism of Ann Keen is justified but no criticism of Phil Andrews is acceptable. Go on, Mick, dazzle me with your logic.

Robin Taylor ● 6299d

Er...because I left the National Front in 1989 whilst Ann Keen is still ripping us off with her unjustifiable expense claims for a second home nine miles from what she alleges is her primary residence?Incidentally, now that you have confirmed that your whole campaign of vilification is based on a lie ("the man who organised an attempted National Front takeover of the New Ivybridge Tenants' Association") I feel less inclined to discuss details of my political history with you in the future than maybe I have been in the past.A dialogue between one person who is endeavouring to be open and truthful and another who is looking for something to twist or quote out of context in the hope of a cheap political shot is not really sustainable.  It's little wonder you are such a fan of Ann Keen, you really are just like her.  Decent, principled Labour Party members deserve better than both of you.

Phil Andrews ● 6299d

"All I did was provide factual information - in the form of two quotes - and this alone seems to have upset you"It was not the quotes, it was the endless repetition of the same old story which we have all heard before too many times. If Cllr Andrews was hiding his past, there might be a point in "outing" him, but to my knowledge he has never done so.Incidentally Robin, if you search my posts on here I don't believe you will actually find anywhere that I criticise Ann or Alan Keen personally. My criticisms of New Labour have always been just that - criticism of the Party, not personal attacks (although I admit I make exceptions for the odious Blair and Mandelson). That is not to say that I may not have serious criticisms of their behaviour, simply that I see them as a symptom, not the disease.Similarly, why on earth would I need "to account" for anything Phil Andrews says or does, only Phil Andrews needs to do that. As this forum has shown, Cllr Andrews is certainly not immune from criticism, far from it. You are merely the latest in a long queue of critics. Make no mistake, if Cllr Andrews, in his role as a councillor, did something I disagreed with strongly in the here and now, I would be just as outspoken about that as I would about anyone else.

Mick Brent ● 6299d

The fact that the BNP do not advocate violence appears to be merely a statement of fact - indeed, if they did , it would not have been appropriate for Nick Griffin to have appeared on Andrew Marr's TV show a couple of weeks ago . Can Mr Taylor supply a single instance during Phil's 11 year tenure on the council where he has made any statement or comment reflecting the former policies of the NF?

Ian Speed ● 6299d

IanRobin doesn't do facts, only propaganda - and pretty poor propaganda at that, if the object of the exercise is to win other people's support and sympathy.Anyone who reads the post in question would see instantly that when saying the BNP didn't advocate violence I was drawing attention to the difference between the presentation and the practice.  It was an unambiguously anti-BNP post.  Robin, however, having such a low opinion of non-Labour humanity, just assumes that other posters are too lazy to look for themselves.If you were to write "I have a Police record called Walking On The Moon", Robin would quote you some time later as saying "I have a Police record", in a manner which suggested you were a criminal.  He thinks he is being funny and clever, but people with his morals usually do.I can live with Robin being like this, but the problem is his party today is run by people with the same mentality.  That's why many of the good guys are starting to talk to us.

Phil Andrews ● 6299d

"By the way, another thing that "has been done to death in local politics over the past decade" is Ann Keen's expenses. Yet she was re-elected in 2005 despite being vociferously attacked on this issue. But I don't hear you telling her opponents to "get over it".LONG FORMAT REPLYPeople will only "get over it"  when she and her husband hand back the money I guess. Likewise it would appear that, judging by Cllr Andrews overwhelming support and vast majority win in local elections, the good people of his ward have certainly 'gotten over' anything he may have done in his past.Gosh Robin - you may have walked on water 20 years ago, so what happened to turn you into what you are now? SHORT FORMAT REPLYGo away Robin

Steve Taylor ● 6299d

I think Mr Waller hit the nail right on the head with his observations.Personally, I could not care tuppence whether a politician learn his or her trade in the SWP, NF, Young Conservatives, Trade unions or the local Co-Op as long as they are diligent, honest, hard working, honourable and do their very best for ALL they come to represent.You forget that many trade unions were quite anti-ethnic despite been Labour affiliates right into the late 1970's.A lot of our better MP's have more than what could now be perceived as unsavoury pasts. Similarly, of of our less honourable MPs came from impeccable backgrounds.  Mr. Waller is quite right, Robin's snide remarks and bating does bring subjects into a low level time and after time and I would rather he and others refrain from  all this 1980's school politics. It really is doing more for turning people off or towards extreme parties as I for one do not want my taxes or rates funding a load of name calling, point scoring fools who end up spending more time bickering than achieving.I wonder Robin why you are so obsessed by local affairs in Hounslow?I can understand having an opinion for a joint issue like Gunnersbury park, but given that Southall and Greenford (my town of birth) has so many problems of it own, should you not focus your attentions and contribute to your own community?I suspect that if you behave in the same way, the local politicians are probably deft enough to steer well clear of you.So please grow up, move on and make contributions of more depth.Thank you.

Michael Brandt ● 6298d

"So please grow up, move on and make contributions of more depth."Like the remark you made about Ann Keen's bra, perhaps? Or your use of the term "parasites" to describe her and Alan?And your inflammatory (and potentially libelous) accusations that they delayed the eviction of the squatters by a week to get maximum sympathy effect - and that they were doing an insurance fiddle?This is what you term "growing up" and having "more depth", is it?It must be the effect of all those editions of the Sunday Express that you've read.

Robin Taylor ● 6298d

Insurance fiddle?  I missed that comment, but do you know what?  I think you've stumbled upon the root of your current unhappy predicament Robin.Users of this forum are a typically mixed bunch - some ICG supporters, some Tories, a few Greens and Lib Dems, some ex-Labour people who aren't fond of Ann Keen and some current Labour people who are.  Contrary to what you seem to believe, most of the people over here probably aren't members of any political party, which is most likely for the best.But let's be honest, if we were to open our newspapers tomorrow and learn that the Keens had been charged with an insurance fiddle or something similar, just how many of the people who use this forum would be surprised?  It's a serious question Robin.  The issue now for the voters has gone beyond what the Keens may or may not have done, it has become one of credibility and trust.  The general public have been able to form a view of the Keens over recent years and of the people whose sole purpose in life seems to be to make excuses for them 24/7 and they don't like what they see.You can respond to this frank and honest observation by announcing that I used to be in the National Front if you like, but I'm not the MP and I'm not standing for re-election to Parliament.  Nothing you say about me alters the conduct of the Keens or, now more importantly, the fact that virtually nobody trusts them any more.They're going down Robin.  And I could have told you that when they started this thing.

Phil Andrews ● 6298d

Go away Robin

Steve Taylor ● 6298d

Well Robin, Time to get your English books out.One line was an obvious joke, No-one has criticised humour on this site. In fact a bit more would go a long way.2 points are true and widely reported and the third one? Well, we will have to see.There's a difference between reporting facts and events even if they are not palatableI accept that is from several newspapers, but much of it is very local and as it is. None of these published reports have been challenged or retracted. So one has to make one's  own conclusions.But I do agree with you Robin that more care should be taken, hence my comments to you and I will do the same. Is that not reasonable?

Michael Brandt ● 6298d

"They're going down, Robin."Well you should know all about that - you went down for six months.

Robin Taylor ● 6298d

You know what is so agonisingly painful about these slagging match type threads? Its the double whammy of witnessing the v poor level of debate being applied by so many who are active in local politics ... combined with the complete lack of any statements of believe or policy. Its all about slagging off and absolutely not about positive statements of prefered policy, philosophy or believes. I wonder if those pitching in with such childish posts ever consider that there might be link with a general disillusionment with local politics and levels of debate displayed in these forums? I agree with the suggestion that everyone makes an effort for improvement here. After all, we all get to read this stuff. And we will be asked to vote for your people and parties at some point. So it is in your own interests.

Alan Clark ● 6298d

I could not agree more, it is really tedious.I agree with Mike in part too. He has at least had the gumption accept the status quo but suggest to improve collectively.No-one should give time to this kind if tit-for-tat negativity. Politics is about to change and hopefully will leave this kind of nonsense behind.Sadly Robin, as a Southall resident, Mike is right.  Would you not be best channelling your doubtless energy into doing something positive for your own community and district,It might be far more rewarding and theraputic.But before you go, just what is the ICG ?

Anthony Waller ● 6297d

I have to say that Knowing Phil for Many years i have to Say i feel he is NOT racist. I would be the first one to say he was if he was having a Sister who is Dark skin.Phil and I disagree about Past issues on Ivybridge but my opinion is he is Not Racist and the Past is the past.If you are arrested, Charged and convicted off a crime you o your time and thats that, it should be the same with Phil's past.He has always been Honest to us Residents in TW7 and i agree with others its so boring hearing it over and over again.

Simon Anderson ● 6297d

i wasn't aware of clr andrews national front past so from my perspective robin, you have done a public service. there are some things one can't atone for and which can't be swept under the carpet; in my opinion (and it's only that) membership of NF is one of these issues. do i believe that someone who has previously been a member of this kind of organisation can a few years later, claim to be without prejudice?...well, logic says no. clr andrews is extremely naive if he feels that this issue won't be brought to the fore on a regular basis, given that he has stuck his head above the parapet and taken elected office. he really has no business standing for office as i see it -- if he is claiming that this past memebership was a mistake/personal error then it indicates a capacity for huge misjudgement that should exclude him from office; if he feels no regret then he should at least be honest with himself and the local populaton and stand for election and stand as a bnp/nf candidate.

James Dee ● 6297d

or to paraphrase mr brandt; "say what you  like about the nazis, at least they got the trains to run on time"unbelievable!

James Dee ● 6297d

You're a very brave person, James.Most of those who have come on to this forum and criticised Phil Andrews have taken such a savaging that they daren't ever come back.I must admit I have a major problem with anyone who could have been in the NF. But it's not just that - it's the length of Phil's involvement, his continuing association with people who hold dubious views and the fact that he still reserves his main scorn for those on the anti racist left.It should be said that there are individuals who have been on the far right but then "come in from the cold" so to speak. One of them fronted a recent anti-hate battlebus campaign sponsored by the Daily Mirror. I forget his name but the thing is that his renounciation of his fascist past was complete and unequivocal. In truth, I would still have difficulty with some one like this but it just goes to prove that in most people's eyes there is a way back - if you are completely genuine.I've always said that I don't think Phil is as bad as he used to be. But there's still a problem: and the way he reacted when Ann Keen expressed her concerns about his appointment to the council's ruling executive (combined with his vendetta against her since then) simply underlines the fact that there is a continuing issue here.

Robin Taylor ● 6297d

Welcome to the forum James.

Phil Andrews ● 6297d

Mr Dee, What are you trying to say here? I certainly have not said anything that can be construed to be in support of Nazis.For your information my entire family was exterminated by the Nazis. Just my father and I are the family survivors. We are not Jewish but resisted and opposed the party.It was a Nazi party official who help my dad escape.The present Pope was in the Hitler youth, his predecessor in the Polish resistance, both worked together for years.The beginnings of many  would be politicians often root back to extreme parties and causes.Peter Hain is one who was regarded as an extremist. Many learn by experience and move away from these extremities.Honesty, honour and doing your best for the people around you as far as I know is nothing to do with Nazis or any other politics.

Michael Brandt ● 6296d

Thank you for that Michael.  That was one of the most considered and intelligent postings that I have read on this blog for some time.Whilst others, without a twinge of self-awareness or embarrassment, unilaterally appoint themselves to be judges of other people whom they have never met, you whose life experience probably equips you to be a better judge than any of us have remained stoic. On this occasion it would appear this multi-monickered fool has overstepped the mark and I hope that apologies will be forthcoming.  For my part I will stand aside from this thread and learn from it.

Phil Andrews ● 6296d

"Peter Hain is one who was regarded as an extremist. Many learn by experience and move away from these extremities."The only people who regarded Peter Hain as an extremist were those who wanted a continuation of the South African apartheid system.

Robin Taylor ● 6296d

Quite an irony using Peter Hain as an example. His political path seems to have been diametrically opposite to that of Cllr. Andrews. One has moved from right wing extremism to what appears to be a centrist democratic view, while the other has moved from left wing "extremism" (and if you don't accept that he was labelled as such during the 60's and early 70's then you are either too young to remember or suffering from selective memory) to being a senior member of our current social fascist administration.

Mick Brent ● 6296d

Left, right, up, down. Does it really matter? Extremism is the same whether it be the hitler variety or the stalin variety. Two ends of the scale, both evil.The point is Mr Hain was almost regarded as public enemy No1 at one point in the 1970s.No-one would ever bring that up now or consider him the slightest bit extreme and his involvement went beyond apartheid, he was active with a lot of far more domestic issues.Things move on and times change.

Michael Brandt ● 6296d

I as thinking more along the lines of "Welcome to Planet Earth James" as Mr. Dee clearly hasn't been around for a long time.  Unless of course Mr. Dee isn't a real person...oh how cynical of me ;-)

Adam Beamish ● 6296d

i have no affiliation or linkage with robin taylor and find his support of the keens absolutely baffling. power corrupts and the venality of our sitting MP should exclude her from office. i have obviously entered some parallel universe here where the passage of time is sufficient to excuse past activities as a prominent member of the National Front and other far right groups. longer-time members of the forum are obviously inured to clr andrews' views, it's obviously not mews to you, but it's new information to me. it would be a pretty sad comment on our community if the natural reaction on hearing that an elected official was a committed and convicted racist were not one of shock and disgust. and i'm afraid clr andrews' self-pitying cries that no-one should sit in judegment on him hold no water; the very act of your becoming an elected official means that you are opening yourself to the judgement of others -- were you a private individual then i wouldn't comment on your politics.

James Dee ● 6296d

Yes, folks, I'm afraid it's true. Earlier today, before I went out, Phil responded to one of my postings on the W4 forum with the words "So the uppercase button is working now, is it Robin?"This is a reference to the fact that the postings made by James on this thread are in lower case.Those of you who have defended Phil on this thread may care to reflect upon the fact that you have been supporting someone who does not deal well with reality. Phil has also accused me of being "Tucker" (who posts comments on his blog), as well as "John Jo Hobbs" (who he constantly referred to as "Robin" while have a conversation with him on the Guido Fawkes website some time back).This acute paranoia gives further fuel to the argument that Phil may not really have changed that much since his days in the Front. After all, what was the NF about other than giving simple answers to complex problems and putting the blame for everything on one person or group?

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

yes i can reconfirm that i am not robin! seems that councillor andrews has trouble imagining that more than one person could be aghast at his National Front heritage. given that this forum has been hijacked by his ICG cronies such dissent must be a huge shock to his system.

James Dee ● 6295d

would it be something his "old mucker" nick griffin would tolerate one wonders?

James Dee ● 6295d

I just wonder when you have the time to do some work,other than your obsession with Phils past. I know that I will vote for him purely on the work he is doing as an executive member.He certainly has cleaned up the Hounslow Homes AKA the rest home for failed Labour Councillors. Phil for the next mayor I say......So "On yer bike ROBBO, back to Southall they are missing you, and take Mr "Dee" along with you, the pair of you are BORING!

Anthony Wilkins ● 6295d

"I know that I will vote for him purely on the work he is doing as an executive member"Your idol is no longer a member of the Executive having - he says, stood down voluntarily some months ago, nice to see you have your finger on the pulse of local politics.

Vanessa Smith ● 6295d

I admit to being a fan of Phil and a drinking companion but James Dee's intervention does seem to be another Labour Party attempt to keep the anti Phil campaign going.My mother who lives in Council housing has nothing but praise for the current version of Hounslow Homes.

Neil Chippendale ● 6295d

PhilMy sympathies. Whilst Robin Taylor sometimes writes well and his historical records are impressive..I think that he is the most evil person who has set foot on this Forum. He should be AWOL'd for foul play.It was with much pleasure that I read Jon Hardy's support for you on another thead.Your "I have a Police record" quote was masterful...and reflected completely the obnoxious behavior of R Taylor or P Haling from Southall..close friends of our notorious MP.

Jim Lawes ● 6295d

Yes,  Robin has been quite amusing with some of his childlike outbursts over recent months but this thread he started is the lowest of the low. Beneath contempt!

Steve Taylor ● 6295d

"Evil" is quite a strong word - and I think totally inappropriate for a forum like this. Hopefully, moderators will delete your last posting (just as the Chiswick moderators deleted remarks of a racial nature which you once posted on the W4 "Cash cow" thread).The fact that you claimed the credit for getting Ann Keen's empty property widely publicised - which led to it being taken over by squatters (and causing Ann much distress) - says all that needs to be said about you.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

It's interesting that Neil Chippendale - who lives in Oz - is allowed to post on here; whereas I get slated for doing so because I live in an adjoining borough.But then Neil is a vocal supporter of the ICG, isn't he?

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

Neil is an EX-RESIDENT of Brentford, who still has many local connections and he VISITS AND STAYS in the town annually I recall.He has attended a few FORUM MEET-UPS also. In addition, he is a distinguished local historian and has contributed greatly to the Community's wellbeing. Your posting was again rude, bad mannered and objectionable.WE DO NOT WISH TO HAVE A SITUATION WHEREBY EVERY TIME A FRIENDLY AND WELCOME EX-BRENTFORDIAN POSTS ON THIS FORUM THEY ARE EXPOSED TO UNCOUTH AND UNWARRENTED ABUSE FROM YOU. ASBO.

Jim Lawes ● 6295d

Evil is exactly the word.

Jim Lawes ● 6295d

An ASBO is exactly what you should be given. It's thanks to you that squatters ended up in the Keens house - a situation that led to an alleged sexual assault on the premises.I have been criticised by your allies fo posting on here even though I live in Southall. Yet my town is just a single bus ride away and I am a frequent visitor to Brentford. I do not dispute the right of Neil Chippendale, as a resident of New South Wales, to post on here: but I'll be damned if I'm going to have my freedom of speech curtailed by you just because I do not share your despicable views.So if you have a problem with that, I suggest you go into another one of your upper case rants. Good luck.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

Mr Taylor.I have just been to the Chiswick Forum and put "Cash Cow" into FORUM SEARCH and checked the appropriate thread. I see nothing there which is out of order. What messages of mine were deleted?As I said..you're evil. If the Moderators think I'm incorrect perhaps they should send me a warning. Why don't you complain to them about me?

Jim Lawes ● 6295d

"An ASBO is exactly what you should be given. It's thanks to you that squatters ended up in the Keens house - a situation that led to an alleged sexual assault on the premises"A rubbish reply from you. If the Keen's hadn't created a dump of an eyesore in the St Paul's Conservation area..nothing may have happened. Added to that the Expenses scandal going back many many years and the problems were bound to occur.Did you previously posted on the Chiswick Forum under another name?  Who is P Haling, Southall?  Your lying postings about me on the Guy Fawkes website were disgraceful.Why you should infer that I might be somehow linked to the alleged sexual assault is just despicable.  Gutter journalism.

Jim Lawes ● 6295d

James,This situation gets more surreal by the moment.I had an exchange with Phil Andrews tonight on the ChiswickW4 forum. In it, we discussed the issue of Cllr Bowen's chances of winning Feltham & Heston.This prompted me to take a look at "Bowen's Blog", something that I have perused occasionally but not often enough. Tonight, I had a good look through some of the historical blogs and noticed that in February - before I started posting on the forums - Cllr Bowen had reproduced a letter I had published in the Chronicle. This produced a response from Phil Andrews who described me as a "curious little fellow" who "springs obediently into action whenever Ann or Alan Keen are spoken of by us lesser beings outside of the Labour Party with anything short of fawning adulation.." (This implies that I'm asked to write letters by the Keens - a complete fiction).In his response, Phil went on to question whether I and another letter writer (P Haling) were the same people and then slated us for having the "effrontery" of telling voters in Hounslow "how they must vote" - an incredible distortion to apply to two people who are merely offering an opinion.Phil also described us as "odd characters", "odd balls", and me as "weird and slightly unsettling".Another interesting thing: before I started posting on the Brentford forum I typed my name into the search engine and it revealed that Phil Andrews had actually made reference to me before. In one of two such references, he had expressed his pleasure at a high-star rating for a council service given by the Audit Commission, only for a woman (whose name escapes me) to point out to him that during the previous year - when fewer stars had been awarded - Phil had claimed that the Audit Commission's rating didn't mean anything. Phil's response to her posting was to go "eeeeeeeaaaaak, you're not Robin Taylor in disguise, are you?"It is quite unsettling to be regarded with such constant suspicion in this way, but at least I'm not the only one: in 2007, on the W4 forum, a Andrew Hood posted an arguably racist remark about his encounters with black people in Chiswick. Phil replied "Andrew has only just begun to post on this forum over the last few days, and his style (along with his mitigation plea of dyslexia) is remarkably familiar. Do the intials DH ring any bells with anybody here?"But why would a good anti-racist like Dave Hughes be accused of posting something he doesn't believe in (and under the name of Andrew Hood)? It's really spooky.I wonder who I'll be accused of being next.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

Why am I "evil", Jim?Because I don't share your disgusting prejudices?

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

By your own admission, your photos led to the Keens' house being publicised and then the squatters moved in. You then smugly proclaimed that everyone involved should be proud of themselves.No, I have never posted on the Chiswick forum under another name. As for my "lying postings" about you on the Guy Fawkes website being "disgraceful", you are once again trying to infer that I posted under the name of JohnJo Hobbs. That is completely untrue and symptomatic of acute paranoia.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

"I DID NOT smugly proclaim that everyone involved should be proud of themselves."Oh, really?"I hope that everyone involved in whatever way is very proud of themselves."- Jim Lawes, Brentford Forum, 11/07/09.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

"I don't have disgusting prejudices ... but I denounce foul play ..."Yes, I read your postings about "Asian business practices".What you do not seem to understand is that when people do wrong, it is the act that should be condemned - and references to the alleged race of the people committing the act are not relevant.You insist on calling me evil, but all I have done is quote your own comments. In much the same way, I started this thread by quoting comments that Phil had made.Sorry, Jim, but people should be responsible for their own utterances.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

In reply to Robin, I’m also registered as an overseas voter in the Brentford & Isleworth constituency. By the way your friend AK has never bothered to reply to my emails to her regarding Brentford and preserving its history.Do you think it is right for my MP to ignore emails?

Neil Chippendale ● 6295d

So is the Lawes criteria for posting on this Forum that you have to be a resident - ex resident of Brentford, or a drinking pal of the ICG? Whatever happened to free speech? We all comment on things all over the country and sometimes in other countries, so this is plainly ludicrous. Let's face it Mr. Lawes you give as good as you get, so what's the problem?

Vanessa Smith ● 6295d

What an odd vipers nest this forum is. my impression was that it was a free public forum not the exclusive preserve of local political hacks. It's odd indeed that my quite natural expression of disgust at clr Andrew's National Front past is interpreted as evidence that i am some representative of a political grouping other than ICG. I am not. No matter what people perceive clr andrews to have achieved in office he will never be able to escape his past and from my perspective his many years of active bigotry indicate at best a huge flaw in judgement but more likely that there is quite a lot wrong with his soul.

James Dee ● 6295d

In "my mealy-mouthed way" I suggest that the criteria for posting on this Forum is no dirty tricks or foul play...ie dishonesty in it's widest form. ....and in my view there is no shame in having a drink with the ICG or admiring their record of service in the Community and on this forum. Vanessa's pugnacious mode might well encourage a firey responce sometimes...but for Neil to be given a wallop on the nose is just out of order in my view and shows no respect.

Jim Lawes ● 6295d

They think they're in the business of saving souls now!  Ye gods (pi), are there no boundaries to these people's sense of their own importance?You forgot to begin your sentences in lower case btw.  One needs to be consistent about these things.

Phil Andrews ● 6295d

"Vanessa's pugnacious mode might well encourage a firey responce (sic) sometimes...but for Neil to be given a wallop on the nose is just out of order in my view and shows no respect."I see. So you decide who can and cannot be criticised, do you? Mr Forum Policeman.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

"Vanessa's pugnacious mode might well encourage a firey responce (sic) sometimes...but for Neil to be given a wallop on the nose is just out of order in my view and shows no respect.""I see. So you decide who can and cannot be criticised, do you? Mr Forum Policeman." I thought that you had taken on that role Robin. Just a small point.... "responce"? Did you mean response? Look up boring as well while you are at it!

Tony Stavides ● 6295d

"I suggest that the criteria for posting on this Forum is no dirty tricks or foul play...ie dishonesty in it's widest form"They won't understand that I'm afraid Jim.  We call it dishonesty, they call it politics - remember?  They have a different mindset to other people.  They are losing, their numbers on the Council are depleted, their MP is about to take a drubbing and yet they retain a blind, unquestioning confidence in their own abilities and their own method which stems from a fundamental belief in their own superiority and the general unworthiness of us unbelievers. This accounts for their extraordinary bitterness at not being in control of the local authority, it simply doesn't compute with them.Just think what they'll be like when Ann and Alan cop for it, the real skullduggery and nastiness will be unleashed then.  Either that or the decent minority will finally find what it takes to clean up the operation and the good local people will have their Labour Party back at long last.  Some of these people have already begun to work with us in the ICG with that long-term objective in mind.

Phil Andrews ● 6295d

you are only succeeding in embarrassing yourself councilor; exposing yourself as being both comically paranoid, and, with your allegation of 'self-importance', being in possession of a breath-taking lack of self-awareness.

James Dee ● 6295d

That's better.

Phil Andrews ● 6295d

You seen, James? This is what we're up against. It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

the fact that you have resorted to commenting on punctuation, rather suggests you have lost both the argument and the plot

James Dee ● 6295d

"you are only succeeding in embarrassing yourself councilor "Stick to being a cat warden,like your mate Robbo, the pair of you are boring. Thousands voted for Phil,many I suspect from the BEM's who were quite aware of his past, as indeed I was. Personally I was glad to see the back of some of the Labour Councillors, who did nothing for this borough, except for themselves like flouting planning regs..........perhaps this spell in the wilderness may spur them to apologise for this abuse,what do you think Robin? KEEP AT 'EM PHIL along with your ICG colleagues. Robin....a question! Name any councillor, who can compare with the honest hardworking Fishers. who are IMHO the most helpful people I have ever had contact with!

Tony Stavides ● 6295d

"the fact that you have resorted to commenting on punctuation, rather suggests you have lost both the argument and the plot"You have not contributed anything of substance, other than to attempt to discredit Phil,and he has answered you and your cohort each time.So there wasn't anything other than these errors to comment on, just goes to show haw monotonous and boring you two little boys (Robin and James) are doesn't it?

Tony Stavides ● 6295d

Not at all friend, just commenting on how somebody who writes naturally in lower case suddenly forgets himself and launches into correct usage then, when it is pointed out to him, reverts back to his earlier (incorrect) style.You are fooling nobody.  I readily accept that some will have genuine concerns about my political history and where those concerns are sincere I respect and understand them, but you are not one of them.  Your original questions seemed constructed with a view to provoking a particular response from a particular poster, which dutifully arrived within a matter of minutes.Some might even say they were taylor made.

Phil Andrews ● 6295d

and what are you contributing tony? apart from being clr andrews' lapdog. and again, the only co-ordination being indulged in on this forum is by the ICG leaders and their cronies. to repeat, in my opinion and i would guessthe vast majority of locals who have no political affiliation, robin taylor's views on the keens are ludicrous in the extreme. he seems a bit deluded on this issue, though there are much worse sins in the political firmament.

James Dee ● 6295d

and what are you contributing tony? apart from being clr andrews' lapdog.He supplies me with "Chum" so I will always guard and protect him.  Stop churning out old stale news! there are more important things to discuss!

Tony Stavides ● 6295d

"Stop churning out stale old news! There are more important things to discuss!"What, like the issues of immigration and asylum seekers - something that you were recently banging on about on the W5 forum?And it's interesting that you've been critical of the ANL but not the BNP.As for Phil's latest attempt to imply that I'm James Dee, I will merely quote what his own Tory colleague Barbara Reid once said about him: "Instead of looking to himself he looked for a conspiracy."

Robin Taylor ● 6295d

RobinYou haven't answered my question to you.I'll repeaT it. Do you think it is ok for my MP not to answer my emails regards her opinions on preserving the heritage of brentford?This is a Brentford forum.

Neil Chippendale ● 6294d

... didn't last long, did it?

Robin Taylor ● 6294d

RobinSorry I missed the no politics for 28 days postings. I'll re-submit the question in 28 days then an see if you answer it.

Neil Chippendale ● 6294d

It's been a week and I cannot see Robin's evidence of any racist act or utterance by Phil since he became a councillor .

Ian Speed ● 6294d

I don't want it so its not gonna happen!

Steve Taylor ● 6294d

“do i believe that someone who has previously been a member of this kind of organisation can a few years later, claim to be without prejudice?...”It didn’t stop former Marxists, Leninists, Trots and Gramscians from running the country in the past twelve years. We even have a former Maoist running the EU, aided by numerous former communist apparatchiks.With respect, such people have more influence over our lives than Phil Andrews. Perhaps we really are supposed to condone former adherents to the most lethal and misguided ideology of the twentieth century, while forever condemning the likes of Mr Andrews.It wasn’t the NF or BNP, however, that spun the intel that spun us into a war that precipitated the violent deaths of thousands of Arabs. Perhaps brown people only really matter when the party wants their postal votes.

Fraser Pearce ● 6291d

"It wasn’t the NF or BNP, however, that spun the intel that spun us into a war that precipitated the violent deaths of thousands of Arabs. Perhaps brown people only really matter when the party wants their postal votes."Surely you can't be implying that Blair/Brown/Mandelson's New Labour are lying, duplicitous, opportunist scumbags who have betrayed their core support and put British soldiers lives at risk simply because of their desire for power?

Mick Brent ● 6291d