Forum Topic

CPZ in the Griffin Park area

A recent post talked about the possibility of a consultation over CPZs in the environs of Griffin Park (and there was a good discussion around it). Does anyone have an idea when/if this consultation is taking place - if it is under consideration, it seems to be a very well-kept secret currently.I ask simply because last night, on Hamilton Road, I counted seven vans quite obviously being parked overnight by people who live elsewhere (possibly in areas with CPZs).The issue is that as more and more areas get CPZs, the 'free parking' areas (particularly for work vehicles - the vans that no-one wants to take back to where they live) becomes less. In the seven years I've lived in Brentford, the situation has gradually deteriorated - and it has got noticeably worse in the past six months alone.I would respectfully suggest that the roads around Griffin Park do not want to hesitate any longer in the implementation of a CPZ (like the Zone N in Northfields - two hours a day). It's been argued that a CPZ will lose us parking spaces - well, probably not as many as were lost last night on Hamilton Road, thanks to the influx of overnighting LGVs.

Jeremy Probert ● 5837d109 Comments

"I am in a CPZ that is controlled in a draconian way.I have `donated`thousands of pounds over the years to the Council scam.Visitors,cleaners,builders have lost a days wages  being ticketed while they collect a visitors permit or call in for a couple of minutes, or have made a minor error filling in the deliberatley complicated permits.My car has been towed away because a wheel was outside the bay in front of my house.In retrospect i would rather not have the luxury of parking outside my house because it is a stealth tax and one has to be in a constant state of high alert or a pedantic goody goody who dots all the i`s and crosses all the t`s- like so many here.And those parking wardens swarm all over the streets like vermin with their little cash collecting machines.The whole thing is one big mugging exercise."The above quote was taken from one of the many on the Chiswick forum but I think sums up how most people feel about CPZs.Interestingly, last night on my way to my car, which was parked in Northfields in an area that has no CPZs I noticed a couple of cars also parked but sporting LB Ealing permits.  Clearly they did not belong to people in or around the road they were parked in.  There were at least two parked there again this morning.  The thought struck me, whoever owned those vehicles live somewhere with a CPZ but presumably they search out somewhere where they can park for free.  It could be argued that those drivers are happy to take spaces from residents whereas of course the residents of this street would not be able to return the favour.  That surely is the point.  Anyone with a car must at least occasionally move it and when they do they usually want to park as cheaply as possible and preferably for free.  We must all surely park in someone else's space from time to time.  I visit my sister or my daughter and park in their streets which must occasionally mean I have taken someone's space.  So what?  We could all TRY and BUY our parking spaces but look at the extras that come with it!  Would it be worth it?  I don't think so and neither do many of those who already pay for the privilege of having a CPZ

Bernadette Paul ● 5604d

And less spaces as dropped curbs will have double-yellow lines outside stopping anyone from parking there and that includes the house-owners.

Jennifer Long ● 5605d

That's right, It was around a reduction of 80 spaces in the original proposed block which would penalise anyone not home by 7pm and out of the door by 8am.The count only included known vehicles from neighbours so the number of permits was lower than it will probably be.It will work out at 150 permits for every 90 spaces that's far lower than what is available now.All narrow streets, including one way New road had passing and turning places so every 30m three house have no parking lines outside.None of this is revealed or discussed, at least it was apparent last time.

Anthony Waller ● 5606d

Just take a walk around a CPZ out of hours in any other district where the streets are small and houses terraced.In many areas (not Hounslow..yet) CPZs are being increased to 20.30 and even 23.00 hours (Hammersmith) and in the case of H&F without visitor permits. It costs a fortune to visit friends in the evening. So result is you simply don't do it, especially with a family.You can't compare with areas that have wider roads and lots of driveways. But in dense areas without this extra space a CPZ is a blunt intrument that will leave roads clear by day (when fewer residents are at home but will have neighbour against neighbour every night.It happens and it gets nasty. Having lived in one close to the boundary it was pure misery and for £120 per annum I hardly ever got to park outside my flat or even in the same street. In fact it was worse than before they implemented it.If you are for or against, you should not take the rather poor offering from LBH without seeing what others have and how well they work and how they address the problem or perceived problem.The problem here is no-one knows just how many residents cars there are for sure but one thin is for sure.Last time around some residents in Grosvenor, Albany, Mafeking and a part of Brook Road did a count up on known residents cars.The total of vehicles exceeded the amount of allocated space according to the plans which were displayed in the Car Showrooms in Layton Road by around 20.It does not take rocket science to realise that their will be more permit holders than spaces.And this is why the scheme as proposed will be unfair and detrimental to the local well being

Michael Brandt ● 5606d

Every time I walk down Lateward Road it looks like that. There were even more yesterday.I live on Braemar and there are plenty of spaces here as well - as always.Of course you are entitled to your opinion on the CPZ but I'm yet to hear a valid reason why from you or the other 2 supporters on here. Could this be because there isn't one?Think of this - everywhere in Brentford gets a CPZ (which is what the council wants). All the residents and local businesses buy a permit. Parking spaces are reduced by virtue of the plan. There are not enough spaces for the cars belonging to those who have permits.Where are you going to park then? Believe me, if this goes through, when you can't get parked and are annoyed at having to park in the next street, wait until the closest you can get parked to your house is Isleworth!Any current parking problems in the area are not down to commuters. They are in the evening when residents return from work or on match days. Neither of these problems will be resolved by the CPZ.

Claire Peleschka ● 5606d

Yes Claire, it's not a normal week as you quite rightly pointed out. How many times have you walked down Lateward Rd and seen it like this ?. Can't wait for the CPZ should be like this week in week out. What road do you live on ?

Saul Whitmore ● 5606d

I've just walked down Lateward Rd - 9.30 on a working day, albeit Easter - and there are 20 parking spaces if there's 1.

Claire Peleschka ● 5606d

I've just walked down Lateward Rd - 9.30 on a working day, albeit Easter - and there are 20 parking spaces if there's 1.

Claire Peleschka ● 5606d

I just hope that all those folk opposed to this crazy scheme have voted against it. For me the most compelling argument against this CPZ is the absence of due process. The opposition to the scheme has been neatly excluded from the key vote! This is known in the trade as a salami tactic-simply removing opponents until you get to the group most likely to support your plan. Then institute in that area and the other areas subsequently fall like nine pins. It's not good.

Pete Branston ● 5608d

I have to say that I have to park in Lateward road quite often, after all there are only houses on one side of the street, but in Clifden road it is very difficult to park. A lot of residences have dropped kerbs and driveways and almost all of those homes seem to have 2 cars. I can rarely get parked there after 6pm. Brook road it is also quite difficult to park and the bumps and curves on the street make it a dead cert for damage from the larger amount of traffic using it.But some households take the biscuit. There is one near me that have one large car, a second car, a motor cycle and a trailer all in the street. That takes up the space of 3 homes. Now I would not want to prevent them from that. But they will as residents still have a permit for all of that. But I would be paying for a permit too and still getting no space.Apart from the fact that there will be no-where to park if half the streets are not in a zone.

Anthony Waller ● 5608d

Are you sure you live near Griffen Park? It certainly doesn't sound like the game day I know. I lived in Brook Rd South and still attend matches when I can. Most fans have gone by 6pm, even the Grifffin has emptied out.The midnight aggro is certainly not football fans.Violence? it does happen, but very rarely. Ask Ken the Police Liason Officer. MostaAway fans are gone by 5.00pm.

Neil Chippendale ● 5609d

Saul, do you work nights? If not, your car is presumably parked at 9 in the morning when the so-called commuters from Brentford station would have already parked, not in your space because you're already parked. Or you leave before 9 and get back before 5 or 6 and are struggling to park. Living a 2 minute walk from Lateward are you honestly telling me that you are unable to park down either Brook Road South / North, Braemar or any of the other surrounding roads? Please. You know and I know that is an absolute nonsense and brings us back to the wishing to park outside your own front door scenario / complaints.If you move your car post 9 o'clock then the space you are leaving available is not being taken by commuters but by people probably living or working in the area. These people will probably buy permits and therefore nothing will change.As for St Paul's park, presumably kids are playing there between 3-5, after school and at weekends. If you are saying that your road is full of commuters from the station then they will not be moving their cars at that time so what you think a CPZ is going to do is a mystery. The proposal does not cover weekends so ditto.Just as a side issue, other than on matchdays, Lateward always seems absolutely full of parking spaces whenever I walk down it.

Claire Peleschka ● 5609d

Claire, I live in lateward road and from 9 to 5 most week days the road is full and it's not locals, it's people either working locally or comuting via brentford train station. It's been getting worse year by year, and quite frankly £80 pounds a year is well worth moving these cars elsewere !!! There is lots of kids playing around st pauls park and any thing that reduces traffic can only help.

Saul Whitmore ● 5610d

I work from home right here in the middle of this district and even in Hamilton road it is possible to get a space during the day albeit not always outside my door. It is another story post school out, and far worse post 7pm.The CPZ will not solve any of the problems and percieved problems.I know I have live in two ove rthe last 15 years and even with a permit (one of which was £190 ! I rarely ever managed to park in my street.I had to park often 3 or 4 streets away and as a consequence my car got broken into 3 times when it had never been touched previously. It was the same for everyone else and it was a rather posh district by comparison.I have to say, the only way this will work is for a light short scheme but spread over the whole district.It need not cost and it will deter the two main problems, all day commuters and businesses that leave vehicles for days as well as airport staff who have been displaced from Ealings tube station areas

John Norie ● 5610d

Jeremy - "Sorry, but I'd like to live without a CPZ, but I don't want to be the last area in the borough without one - the last bastion of opportunistic free parking." It's exactly this sort of paranoia that the council depends on to get these schemes implemented."I particularly liked the tacit threats from those in the area who've voted against a CPZ - warning about paintwork damage and damage to wing mirrors that might be inflicted on cars from neighbouring streets who may have the temerity to park on their turf."I think you'll find that these were not serious, however, you have said "When I don't get a parking space, outside my house or no, it will be because I am competing (yes, competing) for space with people who live on the street or, at the least, in the CPZ. Not with those who've been displaced from other areas with CPZs."So you will be expecting your neighbours in surrounding streets that have voted 'no' to put up with and deal with the exact situation you are not prepared to deal with. Why should I lose my space - which is nearly always available - to people down Hamilton because they don't want to pay for a permit or can no longer park because your CPZ has reduced the amount of parking available to them?  As for a CPZ on matchdays - this, as I understand it, is not part of the proposal so voting 'yes' will not solve this problem. Finally, your description of football fans, violence and drinking until midnight on a Saturday bears no resemblence to the football ground I live on top of. Are you sure you don't actually live in South London?

Claire Peleschka ● 5610d

Saul - when during the day and where do you honestly have trouble parking? I admit that I travel to work by train but when I have a day off I have never had any trouble getting parked when I go out during the day time. If you can't get parked at, say, between the hours of 10 and 4, then who could be parking in your road? It won't be the 'congestion zone dodgers' because they would have used the station earlier and therefore would have parked in an available space earlier. As for the 'day trippers' referred to in an earlier post, I really don't think Brentford is so inundated with those as to prevent parking down 3 whole roads. So who do you think is parking in your road that prevents you from parking? It's other residents and people that work in the area. People who will also be buying permits. So it will not change your situation at all...except now you will have to pay for the priviledge of not being able to park.

Claire Peleschka ● 5610d

Reading through the posts, most people bang on about, "I can always find a place to park when I get home". The problem is during the day !!! All the people at work don't see the problem...but believe you me it exists. Bring on the CPZ, CANT COME SOON ENOUGH !

Saul Whitmore ● 5611d

It's quite simple, it cannot work with a third of a natural block district.It has to be all of it from Hamilton Rd to Brentford High St and Half Acre to Ealing Road to have any effect.Otherwise it will simply compress everything into one corner with nowhere for the residents outside the CPZ to go as they will be isolated by surrounding restrictions.It is crazy to consider just a few streets in such a district and crazy for plans to be laid without the outer streets being informed of the pending fallout and how they will be affected

Anthony Waller ● 5612d

It's fairly simple.I know quite well that the residents of my road have more cars than there are parking spaces. I understand that I will have to buy a parking permit, which fills Hounslow council's coffers. I recognise that, even with my paid-for resident's permit on my windscreen, I may not be able to get a parking space on the road.But. When I don't get a parking space, outside my house or no, it will be because I am competing (yes, competing) for space with people who live on the street or, at the least, in the CPZ. Not with those who've been displaced from other areas with CPZs. Not with the day-trippers and the congestion-charge avoiders. Not with the van men.Someone's already acknowledged, on this thread, that CPZs elsewhere have led people to park on our streets - because we don't have a CPZ. Sorry, but I'd like to live without a CPZ, but I don't want to be the last area in the borough without one - the last bastion of opportunistic free parking.I particularly liked the tacit threats from those in the area who've voted against a CPZ - warning about paintwork damage and damage to wing mirrors that might be inflicted on cars from neighbouring streets who may have the temerity to park on their turf. I've never considered such direct action against vehicles on my street - perhaps because it's both antisocial and illegal. If you've voted against a CPZ, accept the consequences - don't form some sort of ill-conceived Brentford Militia.Finally - while I'm opening myself up to the Forum's vitriol - yes, I moved here knowing full well that there was a football ground. I'm used to hundreds of fans streaming down and up the centre of the road every other Saturday. I accept the drunkenness and the violence and the screaming on the street at midnight. No worries.But, tell me, why can't the fans use public transport? The Mayor wants them to use public transport. The environmental lobby wants them to use public transport. The majority do use public transport. It's the few that clog our streets - and we could live without them. A CPZ on match days would sort it out.

Jeremy Probert ● 5612d

I have seen several fliers opposed to the CPZ.  I'll start by saying I am against it too, because I think a CPZ is an ugly, intrusive and expensive way of addressing a problem which in this case hasn't been quantified properly. Everyone seems to assert that the extra cars come from commuters/residents/overflow from New Road/overflow from other CPZs but no-one seems to KNOW.  Making it quite possible that the CPZ will just add expense and street clutter and not solve anything.  I really think however that people should not distribute leaflets without putting a contact name of some sort on them, even it's only a disposable email address.  I know there's a risk of getting abuse but if you're undertaking to leaflet people with your opinion you ought to be willing to stand by it. I am a resident of Clifden Road and I don't like seeing leaflets purporting to be from me when I haven't been consulted or invited to contribute.There are several mistakes in many of the leaflets going round. They seem to be based on the parking plans that were publicised six or so years ago - of which I too have a copy filed away - which featured lots of yellow lines and 'passing spaces' which the new plan doesn't.  These errors don't serve our case well and ought to be corrected in case they are used as a pretext to rubbish all our legitimate objections. "In Clifden Road the scheme reduces the amount of available parking by some 20- 30 cars.  Planned “passing spaces” reduces parking spaces even more. “Pay and display” parking again reduces the amount of resident’s parking."The latest plans show no 'passing spaces', and seem to rely instead on the dropped kerbs along the street to act as 'passing spaces'.  No usable parking space is taken up this way. "One parking bay has to be the size of the biggest car. Many of us have smaller cars which don’t need big parking bays."Resident parking is not divided into bays, but is laid out in one continuous block.  Though the latest Council plans are, rather foolishly, drawn in a way which suggests the opposite. The proposed visitor bays are 'triple use' ie in theory we residents can park there too on our permit. "More yellow linesMore yellow lines will be drawn and if you park on those you’ll get a ticket. No parking will also be enforced 30 yards either side of the entrance to Brentford Girl’s School."There are no yellow zig-zags on the Clifden Road entrance to the school any more, and the Council is not planning to reinstate them.  Council officials say that is another 'mistake' on the new plan (which makes you wonder how much these people are being paid.)There will be double yellow lines on the corners, where people shouldn't park anyway, and single yellows where there are now white lines, where we're currently not supposed to park anyway. (Hopefully there'll be a line of some sort in front of Clifden Court so people won't keep getting ticketed without warning for parking by that dropped kerb!)  "Arguments with neighboursBrook Road South is not yet in the scheme. Imagine the arguments when you can’t find a space in Clifden Road and park in an unrestricted street with your permit showing. Also how are you going to feel when someone without a permit parks in ‘your’ space?"It's possible that in such a case Brook Road residents might get shirty, but Clifden Road residents get shirty now when holidaymakers abandon cars for two weeks or commuters take up two spaces with sloppy parking (I've seen plenty of both). The fact is if I pay my road tax I'm entitled to park on any unrestricted street, end of story.  And when there's street parking there's no such thing as 'your' parking space, so that's not a good basis for argument. "This scheme... will cost, it adds further control... more forms to fill in and the potential for argument..."That's all true. Also that the problem hasn't been analysed properly.  Also that when a scheme comes in it will nigh impossible to get rid of it, and that the permit prices will go up and up because that's what permit prices do. Also that the street will have wardens eager to give out tickets - incentive schemes exist, even if councils deny it. As for the one way system: I used to live in Hamilton Road.  It really needs a one-way system.  But why does that mean Clifden Road has to get one?  Did anyone either in Hamilton Road or Clifden Road ask for a one-way system in Clifden?  And why on the questionnaire were the two linked?  That really felt loaded and manipulative. Also, the proposed Clifden Road one-way sends us all down Brook Road, Albany and Braemar Road - some of the narrowest roads in the area!  It's idiotic - getting down Braemar Road is hard enough now!I'm glad this forum exists but I doubt the Council Planners hang around here much.  I feel very cynical when I say I doubt their good faith but it's true.  These people exist, I suspect, to justify their own jobs by creating 'schemes'... like this one.

Niall Leonard ● 5618d

I take it from the lack of responses that those for a CPZ are either really delicate and are too scared to say why or they realise that their reasons are undefendable.Not being horrible but PLEASE can someone for the proposal tell me why because I genuinely want to know

Claire Peleschka ● 5619d

Partly because it was a joint effort by a number of people, but also because a neighbour who added their email address and phone number received abusive calls. The message is the important thing. I was directed to the chiswickW4 forum today, which includes lots of messages from people where the CPZ has been introduced. It makes very interesting and persuasive reading.

Pete Branston ● 5621d

Anyone for it should read the ChiswickW4 blog. There are some very depressing stories from streets where CPZ has been introduced. Cars towed away by mistake, tickets issued in error. One bloke who paid for a year but was only credited for nine months - a whole new arena for unhappiness and dispute. Not good.

Pete Branston ● 5621d

Was the one for really short? lolSeriously though, what did the one for say because nobody has been able to give a reason on here that stands up and I'm dying to understand why those for it, are for it?

Claire Peleschka ● 5621d

Are you the author of this pamphlet?I have to say that I have received 5 leaflets through the front door over the past week or so on the subject, 4 against and 1 for. 2 of them, this and one other, were anonymous and I just wonder why people take the time to write and distribute their thoughts but aren't willing to put their names to them.

Kath Richardson ● 5621d

THE PROPOSED CONTROLLED PARKING ZONETHE CASE AGAINST MORE COUNCIL CONTROLA controlled parking zone has plenty of catches. What Research?This proposal is not based on any research or survey. People have had difficulty parking after 9am. But there is usually a problem parking late at night. This can’t be because of non-resident parking. It’s because we have too many cars!! A CPZ will not solve this problem.Less space The proposed scheme reduces the actual amount of parking available drastically. In Clifden Road the scheme reduces the amount of available parking by some 20- 30 cars. There will be fewer parking spaces! Planned “passing spaces” reduces parking spaces even more. “Pay and display” parking again reduces the amount of resident’s parking.No guaranteed parkingIs there a guarantee of a parking space? No. The council has seriously underestimated the amount of parking space necessary. One parking bay has to be the size of the biggest car. Many of us have smaller cars which don’t need big parking bays. Therefore, a lot of space is wasted.More yellow linesMore yellow lines will be drawn and if you park on those you’ll get a ticket. No parking will also be enforced 30 yards either side of the entrance to Brentford Girl’s School.You pay for visitorsIf you have visitors it will cost. There are well documented cases where visitors’ cars have been towed away 5 minutes into operational times. Warders who are paid for the number of tickets issued will be ever so diligent! Ask your friends in a CPZ  about their visitors and see what they say! A hidden taxThe scheme is little more than a money maker for the Council, another hidden tax. The cost will rise each year as it has done elsewhere and may do so well above the rate of inflation. Once the scheme is implemented there’ll be no opportunity to challenge the increase.Tickets and patrolsWe will be patrolled by parking attendants, looking for any excuse to earn their wages. They are on bonus for the number of tickets issued. Your permit may be out of date, may have been stolen or slipped from the windscreen. You’ll get ticket. You have no visitor permit to give to an unexpected guest. You’ll get a ticket. Have you ever had to argue a ticket has been wrongly issued and had it withdrawn?Arguments with neighboursBrook Road South is not yet in the scheme. Imagine the arguments when you can’t find a space in Clifden Road and park in an unrestricted street with your permit showing. Also how are you going to feel when someone without a permit parks in ‘your’ space?This scheme has very little to commend it. It will cost, it adds further control to our lives, more forms to fill in and the potential for argument and conflict. It will not solve parking problems, in fact creates themIt is vital to use your vote. It is vital to return your form. Do so today.Say no to a controlled parking zone and pass this leaflet on.A one way system for Clifden and Hamilton RoadsThe principal reason for arguing against the suggested one way system for Clifden and Hamilton is that our roads are used by cars avoiding the traffic lights on the High Street. One way streets encourage drivers to go faster. They don’t need to look out for cars coming the other way. This is an obvious added danger for pedestrians and a particular worry for those of us with young children. A one way street is a move in the wrong direction.Vote no for the one way streetStop Press Stop PressDid you know that the old Clifden Road Baths are being turned into flats. This makes the proposal for a CPZ even more nonsensical. The problem is not non-residents parking in our streets. It’s just that we have all have cars. With extra folk living in Clifden Road the CPZ will make no difference at all to parking availability. It is just a money maker for the Council. Use your vote. Say no to council control and another secret tax.Clifden Road, Hamilton Road and New Road Residents

Pete Branston ● 5621d

Matt,Like I told you this is a political issue. Why is the labour pary noy giving a proper lead? Read some of these blogs and see where this is taking the community. I'm looking for the party that has a progressive community based policy. Is that the labour party??Pete

Pete Branston ● 5621d

What astounds me most about the pro CPZers is their naivety about where this is all heading.  I have observed that it's not just Brentford it's creeping in everywhere.  The catchment areas for CPZs is spreading.  Why?  I have been able to park in or around Birkbeck Road in Northfields without a problem on a daily basis.  There are always loads of spaces round Ealing Park Gardens, Birkbeck, Junction etc.  There was a proposal for a CPZ in this area at least a couple of years ago.  One of the houses in Birkbeck Road even put up a notice board begging neighbours to vote no to the scheme and using many of the arguments against that have been voiced on this forum.  Nothing happened so I assumed the idea had been dropped.  However, only yesterday, I noticed council signs on lamposts which, although I didn't study them terribly well, appeared to suggest that a CPZ of some description was on its way.  This is an area that is not troubled by football fans, is not a shopping area, is about as far from Northfields station as say Burford Road is from Brentford station.  It is an area where there is never a shortage of spaces to park Mon-Fri and where most of the houses have dropped kerbs and parking on forecourts in any event.  Who wants and why therefore, is there a need for a CPZ?  REVENUE is the only explanation.  Another tax on the motorist.  That is all. I predict it will not be long before there will be absolutely nowhere to park (certainly in London) without incurring a charge of some sort.  Every street will end up with a pay & display and CPZs will be in every residential area.  Yellow lines all over the place and endless possibilities of committing some parking offence or the other with more parking wardens than you can shake a stick at and, at least in the case of Brentford, so half a dozen people THINK they will be able to park closer to their front doors.The pro CPZers are playing right into local councils'  hands.  Once they have their permits (probably originally not terribly expensive) watch the prices creep up and don't forget you need a decent supply of visitors permits as well (at an additional cost of course).  Once you have the CPZ and discover it doesn't work as well as you thought it would, try getting rid of it again.  Admittedly there are probably more residents in Brentford with cars now than there were 20 years ago but, 20 years ago you never saw a parking warden, there were no pay and displays or cctv cameras.  There was however a station and a football ground and I don't remember any great hue and cry about anyone not being able to park. 

Bernadette Paul ● 5621d

I can tell you that feelings are running high and nothing is decided.My road will be the first road outside the CPZ and already neighbours who are normally rather placid are adamant that anyone from a CPZ street who thinks that they will park for free in our street had better not care about their tyres paintwork or mirrors.This is what it comes down to. Division and hate, some community.But these points are valid. The very nature of the marking out of a CPZ will lose 10-15 spaces in a street like Hamilton Road. There will indeed be 100 permit holding cars vying for 80 spaces.  The streets will be empty during the day and packed solid every evening. Last one home is stuffed and will now risk their car being damaged if they park anywhere else. Not good.

Anthony Waller ● 5622d

There is something wrong with this consultation process that a lot of people are worried about. It is that all those against the proposal have now been effectively disenfrachised. The only streets invited to express a view are those that voted in favour in the initial stages of the consultation. This despite the fact that a CPZ in any part of the area will have a significant effect on all streets. Someone called this a 'salami' tactic - slicing off the bits you don't like until you  get what you want. The community voted as a whole against the idea of a CPZ, by 170 votes to 103. It is hardly fair to focus only on those who voted yes when we will all be effected by the decision to be taken by the Brentford and Isleworth Councillors. I've written to all 12 of them and I suggest we all do the same pointing out this is not due process.Pete

Pete Branston ● 5622d

I'm sorry but I do not accept at all that those in favour of a CPZ feel bullied into silence as you seem to suggest. Having been to many meetings at GP where the discussion ALWAYS seems to revert to parking issues, what has become clear is that the one thing residents are never backward in coming forward about is parking.The reality of a CPZ is that that those that can afford it will buy the permits for their road. Those that can't will park in surrounding roads without one which will then cause discontent for the residents of those roads and will more than likely result in CPZs being introduced throughout the area. All to the joy of the council who will be charging increasing amounts of money once the scheme is imbeded and which residents will be able to do nothing about because THEY ASKED FOR IT. But then what?It will not reduce the number of cars needing to be parked. It will not 'free up' spaces for cars belonging to residents. It does not solve anything. What it will do though is increase revenue for the local council and result in additional expenditure for car owners - on top of the road tax and council tax etc. etc.Basic example based on figures plucked out of the air for simplification.100 cars in Hamilton Road. 75 spaces. CPZ comes in and all 100 cars get permits but the scheme reduces the parking spaces available to 70.Where do these excess cars park that they aren't already?Has the CPZ actually helped with the parking situation?Are you more likely to get a parking space?Has it made any difference whatsoever other than an additional cost?You seem all for it and that of course is your right but please can you give one reason why this is a good thing because I am yet to hear one?The absence of one may be the real reason that the supporters of which you speak are so silent rather than the angry mob that you portray.Finally, your posting seems as though you are actually indifferent to the prospect of a CPZ, yet by voting 'yes' to something that you either don't care about or will not be affected by, you are affecting your neighbours and possibly contributing to something that they don't want being forced on them. I would not call this either considerate or contributing to a sense of community.

Claire Peleschka ● 5622d

You speak about community, but there's not much sense of that around here. Such negative comments coming from the NO CPZers have dented any sense of community. The people who would reluctantly be in favour of a Cpz seem to be keeping quiet about their preference, quite probably because any time I (or they) comment, it brings about such a backlash from the anti brigade that they may feel it's not worth commenting. I know some no campaigners who put their point across very well and in a civil manner, but unfortunately this forum now seems to have lost the point it was intended for. I am a proud bike rider, a considerate motorist and consider myself a helpful neighbour.  But that means nothing to some members of this so called community. I really don't care too much either way whether a cpz comes or not, is it a tax or not? Don't know, but would pay anyway, that's my perogative. I will not try to persuade anyone to do anything they don't want to do, at the end of the day, I've still got the bike.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5622d

Living in Braemar Road where we have said no to the CPZ, will I have the right to call the council to remove a car belonging to a resident of those roads that will get a CPZ?Or, not that I would I hasten to add, let the air out of the tyres or leave horrible notes on said cars?Way to bring a community together LBH. I think the comments on here already demonstrate the strong feelings on both sides and how just mere consultation is driving a wedge between residents in just a small number of roads. Imagine how devisive it will be when it's imposed.I say imposed because apart from the bike rider I am actually yet to meet anyone in the local area who is for this proposal.

Claire Peleschka ● 5622d

"I do object most strongly to the imposition of fees (no matter how small) on people to do what they can currently do for free."I completely agree with you, Bernadette - although I'd point out that it is NOT for free at present. We already pay plenty for road tax, council tax, income tax and all the rest. Why should we have to pay yet more for stuff we already pay for? Especially when I have a very strong suspicion that much of the push behind the whole CPZ thing comes from empire-building middle managers in the council bureaucracy who will use the extra fees/fines generated to increase the size of their departments (more CEOs, more junior bureaucrats) and thereby increase their own "status" in the bureaucracy.

Bryan Betts ● 5622d

Ah diddums - not sure exactly what point I've proved but I'm happy to oblige.Puzzled as to why you are so keen on this subject anyway since according to your previous posts you appear to go everywhere by bike!

Bernadette Paul ● 5622d

Thank you for proving my point, and goodbye.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5622d

Blimey that was quick in the space of about 15 minutes you have sought advice from other residents who of course all know me!  I confess I am impressed by that and pleased to have such a high profile.  As for being a serial objector - yes, perhaps you could be right there.  I do object most strongly to the imposition of fees (no matter how small) on people to do what they can currently do for free.  I think way back on here somewhere there was a suggestion that people from York Road (where there is a CPZ) take the spaces in Hamilton Road to avoid paying for a permit.  So, would it therefore follow that those in Hamilton Road will park in say Braemar Road to avoid buying a permit? Then so on and so on until the whole of Brentford is one big CPZ and thereby imposing parking restrictions and fees on virtually all residents including those that currently do not believe there is a problem.  Nice going.

Bernadette Paul ● 5622d

Bernadette, having sought advice from other residents, I realise that your comments should be ignored as they are the irrelevant remblings of a serial objector. Good luck with your deranged campaign. Henceforth I will delete such comments.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5622d

What facts would they be?

Bernadette Paul ● 5622d

How dare you , it's pretty obvious from your posting which of us has the attitude'.  Get your facts straight before you start your petty name calling.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5622d

You Prat! It's exactly that sort of attitude that's already turned most of Brentford into an LBH cash machine.  Lets criminalise and fine everyone with a car that does not want to cough up even more money in the hope of being able to park "closer" to home.  I don't know where you live but just exactly how far away from your house do you have to park now?  My guess is you get parked pretty damned close 99% of the time except perhaps on football days/evenings.  What a tragedy!  After all the football ground has been there longer than you and you should have had a clue about possible parking problems when you moved there.

Bernadette Paul ● 5622d

Glad to hear you are happy with your situation; good luck to you! I DO NOT expect a space outside my house, but one nearby would be nice occasionally.  Happy to vote yes to a CPZ and a One way system.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5625d

I'm not 'campaigning' because my road returned a resounding 'no' to the scheme. I look forward to the surrounding roads parking their cars in my street when it comes in elsewhere and the moans and groans about still not being able to park...exactly outside your house (because a CPZ does not guarantee this you know) and the increase in parking finesHappy days.

Claire Peleschka ● 5625d

Interesting to see the anti CPZ lobby are campaigning again. Letters against the scheme are being distributed, though strangely I didn't get a copy. But then, I'm in favour of the scheme. The proposed scheme looks good to me, more spaces than I thought there would be, and no double yellow lines. Let's hope that common sense prevails.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5626d

the CPZ is not 'turning into' a one way system; that's a separate proposal, and one that needs looking at. I'm not in favour of it myself, unless someone can convince me of the benefits. I am happy enough with the proposed layout of the CPZ, but not sure what hours of operation would be best.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5632d

I see the proposed CPZ around Hamilton Road/Clifden Road has now turned in to a proposed one-way system!

Jennifer Long ● 5632d

Sorry: I haven't looked in for a while. Sorry if I hit a raw nerve Claire: however I disagree that most opinions expressed conflict with mine. I have outlined my thoughts/views earlier in the thread. May common sense prevail and a cpz go through: I will continue to use my bike anyway, just in case! Meanwhile I have had a good laugh along the way: keep up the useful discussion....

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5765d

Hi ClaireI'd say the 'point scoring' comment refers to some of the discussion here (and I was part of it) which started out with 'who's had/has it harder than who', went on to 'who's greener/more environmentally-friendly than who' and ended up with Hamilton Road being full of people with 'aspirations'. I agree - let's let it go - there are two opposing viewpoints here, and it's unlikely they'll be reconciled. For my part, I'm in favour of the CPZ, for reasons which I've gone into in great detail in this thread, but I understand there are those who aren't. It doesn't matter - as long as everyone makes their voice heard, and then supports whatever decision is finally made.And, for the record, I don't think having aspirations is necessarily a bad thing. Of course, I live in the Lower Hamiltons, and can't speak for the Upper Hamiltons.

Jeremy Probert ● 5782d

Sorry Claire: I did not wish to upset anyone. I am in favour of some sort of scheme for similar reasons to others, I can also why people would object. My own preference is for a 2 hour restriction in the am and pm. I rarely use my car but I can see the problem with parking getting worse in coming months. If we do not get a scheme at all, I will not lose any sleep. This situation is not unique to Griffin, I do concede that some very good points have been aired via this forum and I welcome that, I just felt that the discussion was drifting away from our own situation: so apologies if I appeared topoo poo the thread of dialogue: keep it up....:-)

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5782d

Niall, what 'point scoring' discussion? I haven't seen anything other than people expressing their views. That they happen to mostly disagree with yours does not make them any less valid. If you have an answer to them I would suggest that you post them.

Claire Peleschka ● 5782d

Have I perhaps hit a nerve?

Bernadette Paul ● 5782d

Hmmmm: seems like one has the hump. Discuss by all means, but please end the point scoring ' discussion' . And have a nice day...peace and love and all that: now sorry I can't hang about to play some more; I am away off on my bike....8-)

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5782d

Oh OK then! Discussion over people.

Claire Peleschka ● 5782d

Seems to me like the plot has been lost here. Vote for or against: whatever....it's all getting a bit silly

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5782d

This morning I carried out what I accept is a very unscientific survey - I drove down Hamilton Road to check for vans etc.  I could actually only see 3 vans, 1 of which was pulling away as I turned into the road but was parked outside the shop at the top.  Another had writing on it advertising something or the other signs so presumably a works van being driven by ? Unless he has moved I know a builder living in Hamilton Road so I guess the 3rd van could be his.  What I also noticed however, was the inordinate number of ginormous cars (they don't go in for minis or smart cars in Hamilton Road) oh no! Giant 4 x 4s and people carriers of every description this is a road full of people with aspirations driving vehicles as big as vans.I then took a spin past York Road which was fairly full up.  This interested me because when I was going home last night at approx 5.00p.m. York Road was almost car free.  Does this mean that there are an awful lot of people in York Road who themselves commute to somewhere or other or were all the residents on a day trip?  I should say it was approx 6.50a.m. that I was conducting my mini survey.  Proves nothing I know but, cars were pulling away in both Clifden Road and Hamilton Road so, if they are just overnight parkers they were out quite early and if they are residents perhaps they were commuting and thereby leaving spaces. I wonder where they park when they commute, perhaps its outside someone's house.

Bernadette Paul ● 5782d

The GLC -Remember them?- Actually passed an all boroughs ban on large vans and light trucks parking in residential streets way back in 1977. It is still on statute and is enforcable. It was part of the GLC lorry ban which restricted large trucks to certain routes at certain hours.Ealing has the signs on most of it's lamposts although CPz signs seem to replace them.This was free to all residents of all London boroughs. Enforcable by patrolling police, traffic wardens and GLC registered council enforcement officers.Seems to me a bit of enforcing would remove the 2 tonne long wheelbase vans at least- which are the main culprits in using up too much space.Most ordinary vans are barely any longer than the many 4WD steriod cars parked around.

Anthony Waller ● 5782d

The only person local that I have spoken to that is for this thing drives to work so no extra for him then. But, I'm sure that the result will show that there's an overwhelming support for this and the council will make their money. All because some are too inconvenienced to walk the extra metres and the others aren't affected.

Claire Peleschka ● 5783d

Was I the only one that got a leaflet that had suggested pricing on it then? £60 for 1st permit, £80 for 2nd and can't remember 3rd but it was in the £100s. No mention of what visitors' permits would cost.It's simple as I see it - I can park now. It's free now. Why on Earth would I want to pay to do what I'm already doing for free.I live on Braemar so get the bulk of the football 'problems' except it's not a problem. I bought a house on top of a football ground and live with those consequences. I have not noticed any problems with vans. I also have 2 children that will walk the length of a road or 2 if I can't park outside my house.Big bleedin' deal. Why oh why would I pay for all of this now?

Claire Peleschka ● 5783d

Hold on a minute, I am not championing anyone at all and who said you or anyone else should give up your car?  Not me, none of my business how many cars anyone has and its none of yours either.  The fact remains if residents of Hamilton Road, for whatever reason be it work or otherwise have between them say 40 cars and there is only room for 30 of them to be parked, there are always going to be dissappointed residents.  Will it mean there are any less cars to park?  No - I don't think so.  Why not make the whole of Brentford a CPZ.  Make everyone buy half a dozen permits if necessary.  Will it mean suddenly the streets are empty? No - it will just mean lots of people paying lots of money to do pretty much what they do now for free.  There will not be any more parking spaces there will be less and the place will be swarming with traffic wardens or whatever they're called these days, just dying to slap big fat fines on people. Terrific idea, crack on, and as far as I can see that would be just to prevent the occasional commuter parking for free on a public highway, which is what I personally think we should all be able to do anyway.

Bernadette Paul ● 5783d

Hi BryanThanks for reading and responding to my post - as I said, we will need to LOBBY, to ATTEMPT to get what we want, to TRY AND AVOID the 'one size fits all' that the council will inevitably want to give us. At the end of the day, we may not succeed, we may have to take what we're given - but it will still be better than it is now.Unfortunately, we're not even guaranteed a chance to try and influence the outcome as the whole process may be scuppered by those who are already convinced that it's one big conspiracy.My naivete vs your negativity.No, no-one requires a car. It's a privilege, not a right. I'll give up mine when I see visible signs of everyone else giving up theirs. We could start with the people that Bernadette's so fond of championing - the ones with three or four cars in the family.The extra vehicles might be displaced from the Ealing Road, I suppose. If everyone on the Ealing Road drives unmarked LGVs.

Jeremy Probert ● 5783d

Jeremy,"If people want it, and the council goes ahead, then will be the time to lobby them and attempt to get what we want."Excuse me for giggling, but I do admire your naïveté. If we allow the council to go ahead with this - and the council bureaucrats will undoubtedly do their best to rig any "consultation" to ensure they get what they want, ie. more revenue and more jobs for their boys - we will get what we're given, and it will be almost impossible to get them to scale it back later. And yes, the council jobsworths rely on folks thinking "Oh no, the CPZ next door has pushed extra parking onto my street, we'd better ask for a CPZ too." Hey, more money, more parking fines, more jobs for the boys...As Bernadette says, no-one *requires* a car to go shopping or to take the kids to school. Indeed, if more parents walked or cycled with their kids, we'd have less traffic on the roads and maybe even fitter children! By the by, one reason we have extra vehicles around might be all the water main replacement works - everyone who lives and normally parks on Ealing Road will currently be parking elsewhere, for instance, and that'll be pushing others further afield too.

Bryan Betts ● 5783d

Bernadette - sorry for your troubles and good on you.I suppose the point is that you, as you say, didn't have a car and therefore no need of a parking space. It's those people who do have cars, and who use them to make the hassle of daily life (that you describe so evocatively) slightly easier, who would benefit from the proposed CPZ.I note that you yourself 'drive to and park in a road not too far from Northfields Station' - so you've obviously given up on the bus and have a car now - and, like it or not, as the situation gets worse, you'll be affected along with everyone else.As I said - I don't want to pay for a parking permit, but it's the only solution to a problem that's getting worse - we've got an opportunity - let's take it.

Jeremy Probert ● 5783d

i shall look out for it and hide when i see it

Robert A Field ● 5783d

No slightly aged Mazda 626

Bernadette Paul ● 5783d

wonder woman maybe yes i've done all that single dad and still parked outside my front door(maybe not)bet you drive a sierra

Robert A Field ● 5783d

Actually don't get me wrong, my heart bleeds for the poor souls with children that may have to carry shopping and/or children from their car which is inconveniently not outside the front door - Oops I forgot, I was one of them.  I had three children, no car and after only 4 short years, no husband either but I somehow managed to deliver my children to school in the mornings (Burford Road to St. John's in Boston Park Road) on foot, get myself to work in Hammersmith by bus, carry huge bags of shopping home on the bus most days after work, collect children from childminder (on foot), get home, cook dinner, do washing, clean house etc., and I did all that (daily) never once slumping to the floor with physical/mental exhaustion.  Gosh I must be superwoman! We seem to breed such wilting flowers nowadays that the strain of parking in another road is enough to cause an attack of the vapours and the pre-occupation with worrying about who owns what vehicle parked outside is enough to send them into an apopleptic fit.  I

Bernadette Paul ● 5783d

bernadette you moan beautifully but as you said brentford does not really have parking spaces for all the cars in the area

Robert A Field ● 5783d

Hi BernadetteI agree, your point of view is rather simplistic.What other people pay, in different areas, is neither here nor there. We do not know what we may have to pay because, so far, we don't even have agreement on the proposed CPZ. If people want it, and the council goes ahead, then will be the time to lobby them and attempt to get what we want.The reason that the streets have become so full in the last six months is because of the displacement of vehicles from other areas. (Well, I suppose it could be that local residents have experienced a sudden desire to purchase new cars and one big van for every three houses - but I think that's unlikely.) If a CPZ is implemented, then we will still compete for parking HOWEVER we will be competing with our neighbours, rather than the day trippers and the opportunists. If a CPZ is agreed, as I've already indicated somewhere on this thread, then - rather than sit back a let the council do what they want (one size fits all) - we will need to lobby to ensure we get the best possible scheme for us. Less yellow lines, less loading bays, less passing places - more parking spaces. In terms of 'nice fines' - don't know about you, but I've already picked up one or two - thanks to the increase in CEOs (traffic wardens as were) which seems to be in direct proportion to the increase in vehicles parking on our streets.Finally, to your point about certain people being precious about parking as close to their etc etc etc. You're right, of course, how foolish of certain people. They should enjoy the exercise - physical and mental - of parking a couple of streets away, and making their way back to their homes with three children and a couple of nice, heavy shopping bags. And then they can slump, exhausted, to the floor while enjoying the view of a dirty great LGV parked directly outside their front window. I just hate moaning minnies, don't you?This is all about making our lives (collectively) a bit better. No - no-one wants to pay for their parking. No - if there was any alternative, then we'd take it. Yes - we'll still compete for parking spaces. But we do not want to be the last free parking zone in the borough - it's already bad, it could get much, much worse. We've got an opportunity - we'd be foolish not to take it.

Jeremy Probert ● 5783d

there's always one bernadette but to many cars to few spaces

Robert A Field ● 5783d

I confess troublemaking is one of my talents, that and common sense hopefully in even measure.  I also hate bureaucracy, red tape and the virtual criminalisation of everyone for just about everything you can think of.  I dislike the creation of even more rules, regulations and anything that is going to impose unnecessary/unwanted expense on people for something that would probably create more problems than it would solve.

Bernadette Paul ● 5783d

bernadette you a bit of a trouble maker.

Robert A Field ● 5783d

That may be simplistic but it really is a direct hit on the nailhead.Of course, most people (myself included) want to park at least within eyeshot of one's cars because of the vandalism and crime that befalls property, likewise most van and working vehicles need to have a close eye kept on them.The best solution I've experienced (one that is very common in Europe but true to form, unheard of in this rapidly declining nation) are underground car parks that are divided between public and community use. They have very low rates( often just the permit fee) and are always just a few mins from homes. They are often built over railway cuttings, under parks in fact often in the most unusual places and are almost invisible.Somehow, countries less wealthy than this can manage public works that directly benefit residents.They take most vehicles off the streets and enable quiet small streets to return to places where children can play and neighbours can chat.This is because unlike the british who just moan about the decline of quality of life, breakdown of communities and getting ripped off, Europeans acted as it became noticeable and did something about it.If you look at Brentford,  Chiswick and many similar older areas, parking is woefully inadequate and revenues from CPZs like the congestion charge go mainly to operating companies rathera back to schemes to enable a long term solutions where needed.

Anthony Waller ● 5783d

The way I see things is frankly very simplistic. 1) I don't have a clue what zone my niece and her husband live in all I know is they live in Netherbury Road their permits cost more than £25 p.a. and they have to pay for visitors permits.2) The reason the streets in Brentford and everywhere else are so full is that these are mainly small Victorian/Edwardian roads built when no one had even heard of cars.  In the 70s these streets were still relatively clear of vehicles, in the 80s most families had cars, in the 90s the children had grown and they had cars and now we are in a situation where streets designed for no cars have sometimes, 2/3 cars per property, even more if houses have been converted into flats, just think about Mafeking Avenue where virtually every property is split into two flats.  In theory you could have 4 vehicles per property for residents in MA, where do you suppose they would manage to park?  Therefore, parking has to be on a first come first served basis only.  3)  Everyone buys a permit at whatever price.  The council lines off plenty of arears to ensure a steady income in fines for parking infringements thereby creating even less space for the multitude of cars there already are.  Therefore, even those who have coughed up whatever amount for a permit can easily still be left with nowhere to park and every chance of picking up a nice fine.Splendid just what Brentford residents want and this is because certain people are precious about parking as close to their front doors as possible. 

Bernadette Paul ● 5783d

I spoke today with a resident who was heavily involved with the imposition of the Zone C CPZ in South Ealing. This CPZ was pushed through with a consultation that was somewhat loaded in it's questions and by a residents association that claimed to speak for all the streets in the CPZ. It turned out that this Residents group was just a handful of streets around TVU and two of the three other residents associations had no idea of any CPZ until the consultations arrived on doormats.Lammas residents association acted immediately, horrifed at the imposition of the scheme and some 200 residents piled into a hall to express their anger at the behind closed doors of one group and the council.Whilst just small concessions were made, it was all too late, the knock on effect was the South Ealing zone S as the ripple factor flooded streets with cars 24/7. But the council did take on board the vociferous objections to the consultations and practical aspects of the CPZs.This resulted in Zone N and since then most other Ealing CPZs are in the same simplified scheme.The end effect is exactly the same.But a permit for Zone N costs just £25 a year and there is no additional charge for extra permits with a limit per household of 4.Given that many households are converted flats that helps.What has alarmed me is the Hounslow scheme blue print which seems to have a lot of yellow lines and will severely reduce available parking and cause problems for residents who will come home at late and find no where other than a yellow line to park on and get penalised before they get up in the morning.Also woth a look is the system Fulham football club use.Signs in Fulham Palace road have a warning of matchday bans but also display the date of the next game. Simple and effective.

Anthony Waller ● 5785d

benadette i agree with,well most of it,just my cousin wasn't happy with paying out,but she could park,also don't forget people who park there in the evening,yes it is a cash cow for whatever council,but alas which is the better of two evils.The parking around Brentford has got bad now you have to pay for parking at the station.So roads like hamilton road bear(though tempted to say beer the brunt)it really is a no win situation.

Robert A Field ● 5785d

The whole CPZ thing is nothing more than a gigantic scam, designed to generate activity and create unnecessary jobs at the council, at our expense. Residents will have to pay £100+ a year, based on what others are currently being charged, and that money will simply go into "empire building" by council staff. Wardens (or CEOs) will have to be hired, and self-important council managers will be hired to manage them.And if anyone here thinks it'll improve your life, or mean you will be able to park where you live, I'm afraid you're probably wrong. Take the example of the Kew resident who told me last night how she'd come back one evening, but the only space on her CPZ street large enough for her car was across the road - and was classified as a "business" space. She happened not to move the car again before 8am, result: a £100 fine. Beware - if you let these jobsworths take an inch, they WILL take a mile. Every little technical infringement of The Rules will be seized upon, and you'll find yourself paying more to park where you live than you ever thought possible.

Bryan Betts ● 5786d

Sorry, can't help myself, just have to respond."at least she said they can park were they live,and it's not free parking for the people using the tube"Why shouldn't anyone be able to park for free whether using the tube or shopping or whatever?  These are publicly maintained roads they are not private for the exclusive use of residents.  I know and understand how galling it can be when you can't park where you want but, if someone is able to park in any road which just happens to be remotely convenient to a tube/train station, why shouldn't they?  If there is an available space, that's exactly what it is - an available space.  This NOT DOWN MY ROAD mentality baffles me.  People can only park if there is a space.  If you are not there why shouldn't someone else be and if you are there then someone else can't park on top of you can they?  Being prepared to cough up any amount of money (and I don't know anyone in a CPZ paying as little as £30 per annum, a woman I work with pays £130 p.a. for the first car) just to POSSIBLY be able to park, is a mystery to me.  Then there is, as has been mentioned, the added risk of attracting tickets for yourself and visitors for various misdemeanours.  What about the people living in CPZ areas who commute themselves thereby leaving their streets empty during the day simply because no one else is aloud to park there.  My niece and her husband live in South Ealing, they both commute to work by car.  Who knows how many others in their street do the same therefore their particular road is virutally clear of vehicles during the day.  What would be the harm in anyone parking there to shop or even commute.  Presumably the tube commuters would be returning roughly at the same time as my niece and her husband therefore a crossover of parking. I myself drive to and park in a road not too far from Northfields Station.  I assume that they must be considering CPZs for that area as I too have seen resident boards up saying "Say no to CPZ".  I never have a problem parking there even though most of the houses have off street parking thereby reducing the number of spots available and when I return home at approx 4.30 - 5.00p.m. the roads are virtually empty.  Seems to me to be a system that works quite well the only advantage to putting CPZs in place in that area would, as I have said before, be extra revenue for the council.

Bernadette Paul ● 5786d

Interesting to hear one resident put up a 'No CPZ' sign. I can't see it gathering momentum though. Recent experiences have worn away the opposition that was there a few years ago. Don't like the idea of giving up any more money and some of the horror stories from other CPZ's whre for instance residents get tickets at 8.31am because they had to park on a yellow line the night before.Like the idea of a 2 hour a day scheme which would illiminate communter, lorry parked for days and those who park, get a taxi and leave their car for days our street.CPZ of course lead to more CPZ's. I wonder who would be next?

Phil Whitehead ● 5786d

i also have a relative in south ealing near the station,they where not happy at first with the charge,but as least she said they can park were they live,and it's not free parking for the people using the tube.I may be wrong but years ago there used to be parking restrictions around griffin park on match days only.

Robert A Field ● 5786d

I have a relative that has a CPZ where he lives in South Ealing. He reckons he's never paid so much in parking tickets in his life than he does now for parking in his own road! On one occassion, the council suspended a bay he was parked in whilst he was on holiday and therefore unable to move the car. He still had to pay the ticket.These are nice little tricks / earners / problems that come with a CPZ so make your decision wisely. And - has been said numerous times on this forum - having a CPZ does not guarantee you a space outside your home!On a slightly separate issue. Did anyone else find the question asking;if you are against the CPZ, would you change your mind if everyone else was for itridiculous?It may surprise the council to know that I wouldn't jump off a bridge if the urge took my neighbours either!

Claire Peleschka ● 5787d

You are absolutely right. It is a domino/knock-on effect. The effect is that, as more areas around us get CPZs, we get less parking. The inevitable conclusion will be that, rather than you rarely having a problem, you will find that you frequently have a problem.I don't want to put any more money Hounslow's way. No-one does. (Although recently we've had CEOs - used to be called traffic wardens - coming round the Hamiltons and slapping arbitrary tickets on cars, so I have been contributing to Hounslow's coffers already.) But if the cost of a better parking situation has to be £30 (or whatever) per annum, then - with regret - I'll pay it.

Jeremy Probert ● 5787d

Just like to make it clear I was responding to and agreeing with Phil's posting

Bernadette Paul ● 5787d

Exactly the point I have been trying to make.  All that appears to be happening is creating some kind of domino effect which is all to benefit the council's coffers.  Oh well, not sure why I care so much anyway.  The only time it will affect me if it comes into being, is when I pick my grandchildren up after school and deliver them home to Braemar Road which will just be another unnecessary expense for my daughter in having to supply visitor permits and a nice little earner for the council.  Do I begrudge it, you bet I do as things stand I rarely have a problem performing this task for free.

Bernadette Paul ● 5787d

Even a CPZ like Zone N (I think that's right) in Ealing, which is only in force for an hour in the morning and and hour in the afternoon, acts as a deterrent for the opportunist. I can only assume this is why the white van and 'day tripper' situation has got so much worse in the past few months - they've been displaced. And you're right - there are vans being parked for days - it's convenient for whoever owns them when they're not being used. A CPZ would stop that.Meanwhile, there are definitely two camps developing - the pro and the anti - and one would expect nothing less. At this stage, it's not about whether you're for or against, it's about making sure that everyone avails of their right to have a say, so that the final outcome is representative.That being said, saw someone the other day - with a 'Down With The CPZ'-type poster in their window - carefully parking their car outside their house over two parking spaces, thus ensuring room on the crowded street for the member of the family who arrived later with the second car. Is it just me, or is it a little rich that there's an objection to a scheme that can only improve matters (and that objection on the grounds of cost) and yet an expectation of two parking spaces outside one's home? (And, I might add, a fairly rabid reaction to anyone threatening those parking spaces.)H*ll - it's probably just me.

Jeremy Probert ● 5787d

If it right white vans appear in the early evenings and disappear in the morning what difference would a CPZ make as they don't normally cover evenings? That said I've seen numerous vans parking for days on end.Is the Boston Manor scheme having a knock on effect now?Interestingly the last time a CPZ was proposed, signs filled Lateward Road and around, against it. It's noticeable that circumstances have changed from those quieter days! The CPZ seems the inevitable result of everyone else getting a CPZ!

Phil Whitehead ● 5787d

I am a resident of Hamilton Road and I received my consultation paper almost 2 weeks ago. If you have not received the form contact Ruth Cadbury or Matt Harmer and I am sure they will help.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5788d

Has everyone received their consultation papers?  I'm a resident of Clifden Road and have not had any.

Jennifer Long ● 5788d

Breeding of white vans;l think you will find that a lot of east european visitors who work in the building trade drive mainly vans'and large number  lodge in this area.Sometimes with more then one vehicle per household and with white vans being more conpicuous.

William Micheal Read ● 5808d

Haven't the "garage premises" in Westbury Place recently been taken over by a Van repairing business?

Jim Lawes ● 5808d

Extremely valid and helpful points. I don't think anyone wants a Zone C-alike - a Zone N scheme would serve perfectly well. I am interested to learn that Zone N permit is only £25 - seems I over-estimated the cost in a previous post!Talking of Resident's Associations and ensuring everyone gets a say in this - does anyone know what the Hamilton Road Residents' Association's official position is on this? Or has one yet to be decided upon?

Jeremy Probert ● 5808d

My sister lives in W13 and after a long running battle with the council and residents a CPZ has recently started round her area between Northfields and Culmington road.The council originally proposed the same sort of scheme as South ealings zones C and S which is quite draconian and was forced through with one residents group speaking for all with out consulting whole rafts of streets.It was too late by the time residents and dormant residents associations found out.This time though the current Ealing administration listened and accommodated the wishes of the residents. This has resulted in a scheme the same as zone N which is now held as the most successful resident and local business friendly scheme.Zone C by the way damaged many small businesses and finished a few off completely.Residents in Zone C are now considering a proposal to modify it to a 3 hour ban and a 1 hour ban on saturdays or a reduction in the size of the saturday zone.Zone N permits are also just £25 per year.Pensioners should get free permits anyway.Hopefully Hounslow will follow the Ealing initiative and start again with the most flexible and beneficial scheme possibleAs for vans, we are getting a lot of vans overnighting and the drivers walk off and out of the street. Like someone else, I've walked around and counted over 20 but it's the long wheelbase ones that cause the problems, blocking out the light sometimes for days on end.

Anthony Waller ● 5808d

Clearly this subject is an emotive one; it's great to hear that the consultation is about to start. I hope that the campaigners from both sides of the argument have a fair hearing and that we can reach a reasonable and sensible solution. Because the situation, as it currently stands, is unacceptable to all who live here, whatever side of the fence you sit on. As pointed out by John, it's a free for all, and anyone has the legal right to park here, and to remove any obstructions in their way. I think Jeremy's suggestion to put in restricted parking for a given time am/pm should be explored further. I raised this with the council a long time ago, but was told that they could not fund a warden at the time; they seem to have no problem with that now, given the frequency that they issue tickets around the patch nowadays.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5808d

The first round of consultation begins with delivery of forms to all properties next weekend. If this innitial survey indicates interest, we move onto a second, more detailed round. Anyone not getting a form by the ebnd of September should contact me and i will get one delivered to you. It will cover roads between Ealing Rd, New and Hmilton Roads, Windmill Rd and Albany Road.

Matt Harmer ● 5808d

I'm afraid it's hard to deny the increase in vans, mysterious or otherwise, and the fact of the matter remains that it's happened over the last six to eight months. I'm not against people who occasionally use vans and occasionally bring them home - fine. Live and let live. But this is not occasional, it's all the time. And because I find it difficult to believe that a whole bunch of my neighbours have all decided to invest in vans recently, there must be another explanation for it.I think it's likely, as you suggest, that the vans are second vehicles and the owners don't want to buy second permits. So they go to one of the last remaining areas with 'free' parking. A CPZ will - at the least - act as a deterrent to these people, freeing up some of the spaces for residents, no matter how many cars they have. (Three cars AND a van? Seems a little extreme. More vehicles than bedrooms.)And yes, back to the old issue of payment. The charge appears to be £60 for the first vehicle, and £80 for a second vehicle. That's (in total) £140 - just over £10 a month. No - I don't want to pay it, but if it improves my quality of life, then I will. Back to the people with three cars and a van - if they can afford the road tax, they can afford the permits.

Jeremy Probert ● 5808d

In relation to the issue Niall raised about individuals "marking off" parking space with recycling bins or parking cones, they have no right to do so on the public highway. As an outsider to Brentford I would not dream of parking in a CPZ without authorisation. However, I would have no hesitation in moving obstructions in the highway where parking is free. At the end of the day resident priority depends upon either your own off street parking or a CPZ permit. Otherwise, anything goes.

John Connelly ● 5808d

On the subject of vans, I have to take your word on this sudden influx of mysterious vans being parked by people who live elsewhere just because they don't want to take them home.  I find that a very odd scenario myself, why would someone drive to Brentford in a van and then either go off and commute or just go home elsewhere?  What would be the purpose of the van if not to be actually used for work? Where exactly do you think the owners/drivers of these vans live?My son in law is a chef and you would think therefore unlikely to ever be parking a van.  However his restaurant has a large van advertising his restaurant which he occasionally uses and occasionally parks in Brentford. Normally of course he would park as close to his home as he can get which is in Braemar Road.  However, with the hours he keeps he may well have to park in Brook Road or wherever else he can find a space.  Should he not be allowed to do that?  How do you know the same is not true of whoever is parking all these vans everyone is so worried about?  I don't get the idea of loads of van drivers parking in Brentford Streets so that they can travel to and from their work or homes these vans must surely belong to local residents.  Of course you could be right, maybe they live in say York Road where they would need permits and maybe the vans are second vehicles and they don't want to buy second permits.  This I suggest is an even bigger problem, the 2 or more car families.  You may be keen on buying 1 permit what about when husband/wife/child or children all have cars, which is one of the reasons why Brentford streets are now so congested.  When I moved into my old house in 1979 I had no car and my neighbours either side had 1 car each.  By the time I sold that house, I had a car as did my daughter the neighbours on one side had 3 cars and a van and the neighbours on the other side had 2 cars - so, in a few years of children growing up a small road that needed space for 2 cars now needed spaces for 8!  This I'm afraid has and will happen everywhere and I'm not sure permits will help in any way other that fund raising for the council.

Bernadette Paul ● 5808d

Fair point about the commuters. However, there's no doubt that the situation in the area has got very much worse in the last six to eight months, as more CPZs are implemented in the surrounding area. Cars arriving during the day may well belong to our neighbour's visitors, but my suspicion is that they're also shoppers not wishing to pay the congestion charge, visitors to GSK and visitors to people living in CPZ areas - all of whom are being displaced into the ever-smaller area without a CPZ. Our area.Yes, there are those in Chiswick who are nervous. However, I'd also suggest a visit to Ealing Zone N, where - despite it being a 'one hour in the morning, one hour in the afternoon' CPZ - it's a deterrent to the day trippers and the parking issues are eased. It's correct that the issue will never go away completely - but it will be better with a CPZ. And 'better' is all I'm looking for (and if I have to pay a nominal sum for it, then so be it).And White Van Man. Agreed that there's a lot of home improvement being done right now - did it myself recently - but in Hamilton Road, one evening earlier this week, when you'd reasonably assume the working day is over and the workmen have gone home, I counted 10 vans. They weren't all there during the day and I know enough about my neighbours to state that they don't all belong to residents. Nope. They're being parked there by people who live elsewhere and either don't want to take their vans home (they're not easy on the eye, after all) or can't because they live in a CPZ. What do you think?

Jeremy Probert ● 5808d

If you see commuters parking their cars in the morning, presumably you are still at home and your car is parked in which case they are unable to park in your space.  If you see them arrive back at 5.30 once again presumably your car is parked.  If you go out at some time in between early morning and 5.30 and thereby lose your space, presumably it has not been taken by a commuter.  It could be a visitor to anyone in your road or a someone working in your road it could in fact be anyone and if you are not there at the time they parked is it reasonable to ban visitors/workmen or just about anyone at all from parking on a public road just because it may be outside your door?  Read some of the postings on the Chiswick website from people who already have CPZs and those that are afraid of getting CPZs in their specific areas.  If you want to cough up extra money to L.B.H - be my guest but please be aware that you will never be guaranteed a space in any event no matter what you pay.  As for White Van Man - did it ever occur to you that a lot of people in properties as old as Hamilton Road and surrounding roads, frequently have works done to their properties usually by people driving white vans.  It would therefore follow that these workmen may wish to park their vehicles in the vacinity of their jobs.  After all, the purpose of a "white van" is usually for work purposes it would not therefore follow that they are parked by commuters?  Also I suspect, people driving white vans do have to live somewhere, perhaps they wish to park them near where they live - what do you think?

Bernadette Paul ● 5808d

Great to see a sensible discussion about parking in Hamilton Rd/Westbury place/Clifden Rd etc. Now that the parking scheme has been extended up Boston Manor Road etc, I dread to think what the impact will be on parking in the area. In recent months I have had the pleasure of a number of parking fines  to contend with due to the fact that I could not find adequate parking during the day, whilst trying to get 3 young kids and shopping etc into my house on Hamilton Road. Every morning I see commuters to London. GSK etc merrily leaving their cars in the area, only to see them return from about 5:30pm to collect.Then in the evening we have the joy of witnessing the 'White Van Man' brigade selfishly park their vans the length of the road. Add to this the hilarity of seeing some of the residents { Some of whom I know to be opposed to any parking scheme, seeing it as an unnecessary tax blah blah....} playing musical cars to maximize parking for themselves; it's great fun watching them put recycling bins outside their properties to protect their territory. I recently witnessed one resident waiting outside her house at 5pm, honking her horn to alert her husband to the fact that she was waiting for him to remove the cones/recycling boxes so that she could park up, it was unbelievable watching him running out of the house with one shoe on, one shoe off, diddle diddle dumpling....What I am saying, in essence, is that the situation is a farce and surely it is time to accept once and for all that we cannot continue like this, we should be able to reach a compromise.

Niall MacAonghusa ● 5808d

I live in Braemar Road and I have absolutely no desire for a CPZ. The only problem I ever have with parking is on matchdays and even that's not a problem as I know how to deal with it. A CPZ does not normally cover evenings or weekends when the football is on so is of zero benefit but, of course is yet another expense. Furthermore, it doesn't guarantee a parking space so why pay money to be absolutely no better off than I am now? As for the white van epidemic - can't say I've noticed. However there has been a large amount of filming going on lately around and in the football ground so maybe this is a contributory factor

Claire Peleschka ● 5829d

Certainly looks that way.

Michael Brandt ● 5836d

Totally agree that vans of residents have to park somewhere, whether or not there is a CPZ. My issue is with vans that are parked overnight because their owners don't want/can't take them home with them. I suspect - although I don't know - that these vans are being displaced from other areas for one reason or another. There has certainly been a big increase in the past six months.

Jeremy Probert ● 5836d

Whilst out for a walk last night (wed) I counted 23 vans 7 of which were long wheelbase, and 5 of which I regularly see around here. Can't explain where the rest come from. Obviously, this is a mixed area and there are plenty of self employed and those who get a company van. That is going to be normal. But the long wheelbase vehicles are not the usual van of the small business and do use up too much space at the expense of others.Ealing has a weight and length restriction in all non classified residential streets ( I think that means ordinary streets with no number ie B3208 etc.) It's been in force since pre- Ken GLC days and understand it was also deployed in Hounslow. But of course, vans and in particular vans of residents have to have somewhere to park overnight safely. CPZs included.

Michael Brandt ● 5836d

As I drove out away from home this morning - delivering children to nursery and summer camp - I acknowledged (by means of a wave and a nod) a white van that had paused at the top of the road to let me through.Don't know why I did - I'd never seen the white van or its driver before - but I bet it's parked on the street when I get home (by public transport, I may add).Good point about size and weight limits - worth speaking to the council about.

Jeremy Probert ● 5836d

Last night was Norwich city and a large summer hols crowd, so stuff was parked all over the place, I got home at 6.30 and had to park so far away i had to get a bus back, That's not happened for a while!But there does seem to have been a sudden arrival of a lot of white vanes parking- some for days on end locally. Grosvenor road had 5 just last week. and 3 in Mafeking.The worst thing is that many of these are long wheelbase vehicles which take up nearly 3 car spaces.No-one seems to know whose vehicles they are.I though a size and weight limit already existed in residential roads anyway.

Michael Brandt ● 5837d

Again, fair point. I wish the issue could be solved. But it can't, and therefore there will always be a problem, which will always be displaced somewhere else, in the same way that it's been displaced into the Griffin Park area. My desire is to displace it somewhere else - let's not beat around the bush. Ideally, in the case of the 'day trippers' - the commuters and GSK workers - I'd like to displace the problem back to where they actually live. In the case of the vans in overnight storage, I'd like to displace them to a parallel dimension, to be eaten by large, slow-moving, snail-like creatures with acid for saliva.

Jeremy Probert ● 5837d

Fair point - in the case of the vans it's more deterrent, than cure - the very fact of there actually being a CPZ of any sort is enough to make some people park elsewhere. In addition, they must come from somewhere - let's have what they've got there!The concern is, however, bigger than vans. (Although some of the vans are quite big.) It's the fact that it's now impossible to get a parking space on Hamilton for most of the day - not good, for example, for those residents who have small children (that'll be me then.)There are no parking spaces on Hamilton Road because of the 'day trippers' (commuters and GSK workers) who have been displaced, by the extension of the Brentford station CPZ, into the Griffin Park area.I repeat at this juncture that I KNOW A CPZ WILL TAKE AWAY SOME OF OUR PARKING SPACES but a) probably less than those that are being taken away now and b) if I can't find a parking space, at least I know it's because my fellow residents have taken them all!

Jeremy Probert ● 5837d

I note the concern in Hamilton Road is overnighting vans. I am afraid I do not see how a daytime CPZ would prevent this from recurring.

John Connelly ● 5837d

I understand your point of view but it does tend to underline the basic flaw of CPZ schemes. They don't actually address the issues of providing sufficient parking spaces, simply displace it.

Mick Brent ● 5837d

I wish this website would allow you to edit posts!The preliminary consultation for a CPZ in the Hamilton Road area will take place in mid-late September, and will take the form of a leaflet and questionnaire.

Jeremy Probert ● 5837d