Forum Topic

Ann Keen speaks up for residents on Mogden

Forum users can see from the article on the front page that popular local MP Ann Keen recently held a meeting with Thames Water over the issue of Isleworth's Mogden sewage works.Last Saturday, she raised with them "the serious concerns from residents" about the matter and said afterwards "I would like to thank all the residents that have contacted me regarding this issue."Sadly, the article is debased by the party political point-scoring of a spokesperson from the Mogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) and from former National Front member Phil Andrews of the ICG (who co-founded MRAG with a view to furthering his own political influence and who is also a MRAG committee member).The MRAG spokesperson states that Ann's meeting "took place without any consultation with residents". Simply not true. It was on behalf of those residents who had contacted Ann that she had the meeting.The MRAG spokesperson also stated that "the meeting followed threats made on local internet forums by a spokesperson for Mrs Keen that she would be engaging with Thames Water separately from residents rather than working with them..."This is a 100% lie. No spokesperson for Mrs Keen threatened anything of the sort.In the article, the ICG also criticises Ann Keen. They accuse her of showing "discourtesy" by meeting Thames Water "without seeking a briefing nor even notifying residents". For "residents" read Phil Andrews and his political allies on the MRAG committee.What Phil should try and understand is this: Ann is the democratically elected representative for the area which includes Mogden. She does not need the permission of any National Front member, past or present, in order to make representations on behalf of her constituents.Phil further comments: "A spokesperson for Mrs Keen recently announced that she and her party intended to work separately from residents on the Mogden issue as they didn't wish to be involved with the resident-led campaign."This is complete and utter tosh. In fact, Phil's Tory colleague Councillor Peter Carey summed things up perfectly when he said this about a piece of ICG propoganda that was once drawn up and distributed by Phil Andrews:"It is malicious, mischievous and total rubbish."Now people can understand what Ann Keen has to put up with.

Robin Taylor ● 6118d75 Comments

"I hope Andrew's support is noted by the many thousands of people who have to live with the blight of Mogden on an almost daily basis."According to Litigation records more than 17,500 dwellings are affected at conservatively 2 residents per dwelling. MRAG's membership' approx 8,000

Steve Taylor ● 6096d

SteveI agree, it is fantastic news that, at last, one of the PPCs has had the guts and the decency to speak out for the thousands of residents who are suffering as a result of Thames Water's activities at Mogden.Expect others to come whinging and whining now, telling us that Andrew is being opportunistic, electioneering, etc.  Well, they all had the chance to speak up for our residents too and they chose instead to take the company's part when residents were being scoffed at and were forced to endure the pong and the mosquitoes while Thames' shareholders trousered the dividends.I hope Andrew's support is noted by the many thousands of people who have to live with the blight of Mogden on an almost daily basis.

Phil Andrews ● 6097d

Most encouraging that Andrew Dakers and Vince Cable have come out so srongly against the mismanagement of Mogden and are suggesting a clear timetable for Thames Water and Hounslow Council to 'get it right' Whilst Ann Keen is obviously completely out of touch with what is happening in her constituency, it is a shame that the Leader of the Council, Peter Thompson and the Tory PPC Mary Mcleod, remain so silent on the subject. Is sitting on the fence the best they can do for us?

Steve Taylor ● 6097d

Council Leader Peter Thompson says in his Leader Column:"If we're lucky enough to get some more warm weather, I’m sure many of us will head outside for a BBQ. Spare a thought then for those residents who live around the Mogden Sewage Treatment Works,who on some days don’t even have the option of having their windows open, let alone sitting in their gardens or local parks. Hopefully, this is set to change." And just who does Cllr Thomson think he is addressing?  Some of his former school children?  Sorry Cllr., we don't need your patronising 'spare a thought' drivel. Its an insult to the community you purport to serve. Instead of a Leader who is content to 'spare a thought'  we want a Leader that has the guts to actually take some action, a Leader that would perhaps have the courtesy to respond to just a single one of the hundreds of  emails addressed to you personally since the day after you became Leader. Do you remember our offer of congratulations and request for a meeting? Why are you so terrified of engaging with the community?  You say  'hopefully it is set to change'.  Total tosh and you know it... Your colleagues under your Leadership approved  an expansion that is guaranteed to cause more odour pollution for the foreseeable future. And now to the lies in the Pg 23 article. "It was only seven years later, and after a long legal challenge, that Thames Water finally agreed to comply!" No they didn't - In order to encourage Thames Water to drop further appeal, your Council, without consultation with residents and residents' independent expert industry advisors,  agreed a set of non-robust, non enforceable conditions modelled on a totally different Sewage Treatment Works situated nowhere near an urban population"Despite this action, it was clear that the problem hadn’t been solved." Not surprising is it? Despite our repeated warnings to your former Head of Pollution, that the conditions were not sufficient, he signed off without further ado. "Earlier this year, we received an application to extend the site so that the Government’s new urban waste water treatment directive could be complied with." Its not a Government directive - its an EU directive."Planning permission was granted on the condition that the Mogden works would comply with strict conditions aimed at reducing the smells and keeping residents informed."Residents were NOT informed and were not invited to contribute or comment on the alleged strict conditions and all documentation is clear that there is NO CONDITION OR GUARANTEE  that smells will be reduced. It is only 'expected'  that ODOUR WILL REMAIN as it is and - if it does increase - the Applicant will apply for funding from Ofwat to address the issues which will take ANOTHER  FIVE YEARS.“The decision to grant planning permission wasn’t taken lightly, and we will now ensure that the works meet the strict criteria set out"The decision WAS taken lightly. Cllr Sam Hearn has said he voted on a hunch. Cllr Barwood muttered that she had never been near Mogden and it was clear she didn't understand what she was voting on. Anyone who watched the video can see that. Cllr Reid ......well....her performance was indescribable suffice to say that at the mention of the possible appeal and possible costs she couldn't run fast enough to scuttle her own ship.  “I hope that the conditions that will be enforced by the new agreement will make a big difference to all residents in the area.” They won't be enforced because they can't be enforced because to enforce them will involve legal action and this Council is terrified of legal action because legal action may cost a few bob."what we are doing is Ensuring that Thames Water provides a financial contribution towards 24/7 response officers able to respond to complaints about Mogden."Thames Water hasn't contributed a penny though - have they?"Residents will be able to access daily updates of information about Mogden issues by calling the information line on 020 8583 5745"  Yes - and yesterday we were aware that there were odour control unit shutdowns for 'essential maintenance work' (only because Thames Water told us)  but when we phoned the Council's  information line (because there were reports of high levels of stench) it appears nobody told the so called information line because the recording simply said  "there are no operational problems on site". So everything was  hunky dory was it?"Thames Water has agreed that if the storm water tanks are used and consistently cause unacceptable smells they will apply for funding to cover the additional tanks" Yes, consistently means six times a year and each "time" could last 30 days and then Ofwat will simply tell them AGAIN that odour is a matter for the Company to deal with within capital expenditure.   "Those works that will bring early benefits for residents will be implemented as early as possible during the construction process . Improved sludge handling and treatment - including a sludge gas management plan to deal with the escape of gas, which is currently an ongoing source of smell from the plant These actions are designed to help Mogden cope with the increasing volumes of sewage it receives, and Thames Water to manage the site with reduced nuisances to residents."The escape of gas by the sludge digesters was identified in 1992 by the Council's independent expert and the Council was supposed to force Thames to deal with it. But  - it wasn't dealt with within the last two odour improvement programs and it  wasn't it dealt with within the last expansion program in 1999. Why were the last two odour improvement works such failures and why did the last expansion program fail so badly? The Council has never asked these questions of Thames Water. They have simply agreed "on a hunch"  to let Thames try again.In any event exactly what works will bring early benefits to residents when Council Officers for the last 9 months have been attributing 90% of odour events to the storm tanks? The operation of the remainder of the site is allegedly perfect and other sources of odour rarely ever located by Council officers or Thames Water !!  How can Thames rectify the problems if they deny they exist!Forget the stench - the Hounslow Matters article is in itself vomit inducing and an insult to ones intelligence. It is indeed a great shame that some Hounslow officers, who recognise the problems, and  are trying extremely hard to work with residents on these issues have their efforts negated by this blatant political spin.

Steve Taylor ● 6109d

I think ' we ' refers to the LBH as a corporate body . One would have thought a long serving councillor would have been able to spot that .

Ian Speed ● 6110d

Or better still - Hounslow & Turnham Green Matter but we don't give a damn about the rest and we don't consult with the community before we print utter rubbish.

Steve Taylor ● 6110d

Quite right, Vanessa.Unless I'm mistaken, the Tory-led council have neither taken TW to court over anything nor have they threatened to do so.Why should they? They are the party of big business. Further more, they received a donation from TW only three years after their government privatised the water utilities. Sleazy to say the least.

Robin Taylor ● 6112d

For downright lies it's pretty good too 'In July 2001 after numerous complaints from local residents WE took the first steps to tackle this problem and served an abatement notice on Thames Water'.Well, unless I've missed something this shower weren't elected until 2006, in 2001 the council was still Labour controlled.

Vanessa Smith ● 6112d

The article puts a positive spin on the Conservative position by undermining the ICG position.  I can see why not everyone in the coalition might be so enthusiastic about it.

Andrew Penty ● 6112d

It presumably goes without saying that I am deeply unhappy with this article, but will reserve further comment pending some internal investigations.

Phil Andrews ● 6113d

Gentlemen,It is a matter of record that I was the ONLY member of SDC that was eligible to vote that voted AGAINST this expansion.  Recent evidence shows that the decision to allow the expansion is akin to giving fireworks to a child found playing with matches.

Jon Hardy ● 6113d

How apt that today's issue of the Hounslow Matters mentions Mogden.

Jim Lawes ● 6113d

A little out of sequence with your postings last night eh Robin!!

Paul Fisher ● 6113d

Phil Andrews I believe.

Andrew Penty ● 6113d

Seriously? That would be fantastic - it would permanently link the Mogden pong with the Tories in the minds of the local electorate.But hard to believe that an interest would need to be declared - as it was their party that benefitted from the donation (rather than them as individual councillors).Which councillor is seeking the legal advice about this?

Robin Taylor ● 6113d

I'm told the councillor is seeking independent legal advice on whether the Tory councillors should have declared an interest due to the fact that Thames Water has donated money to the Conservative Party.  A long time ago (1992), but it's the same company - and the same party.

Andrew Penty ● 6113d

Maybe he should have added "...and more modest"?

Phil Andrews ● 6116d

Modesty prevents.

Vanessa Smith ● 6116d

"Despite the way Phil Andrews slams Ann Keen on this issue in the Mogden article in today's Times, he refuses point blank to criticise the Tories (who have the same stance as her)"RobinI would suggest Andrew visits the Chiswick site and refers to the thread entitled "Ann Keen supports expansion of Mogden sewage plant in face of residents' opposition" to see for himself whether your statement above has any truth in it.  As always, your observations are based on how you would like things to be rather than how they actually are in the real world.

Phil Andrews ● 6116d

Apologies for that last joke which was made meaningless by a major typo. This keeps happening - no matter how often I look at a text, I misread the words and consequently post something with a typing error. Dyslexia?I've just taken a look at the latest comment Phil left on his blog. He suggests that Ann may have backed the Mogden expansion so as to get MRAG to stand a candidate at the general election. (I think Andrew made a similar remark).It is preposterous beyond belief. Ann is a hard working MP but she is not a tactician. Having said that, I can well believe that Phil thinks it might be part of her strategy. People in politics become so emotionally exhausted that they cannot see things the way they are.I know one Labour borough agent who, a few days before the 2006 local elections, started telling me that he was worried the Tories would take control of his local authority through a campaign of mass personation at the polling stations of the borough's single most pivotal ward. In the event, the Tories won the ward (and the borough) on a swing less than the London-wide average - so his fears were clearly unfounded.What effect an independent MRAG candidate? Probably quite neutral (although some might argue that Independents would usually tend to take more Lib Dem votes). Of course, the MRAG candidate would do best in Isleworth (which is a mainly working class ward with a large block of social housing) so s/he might for this reason be expected to take votes disproportionately from Labour.On the other hand, if you expect the ICG's anti-Keen campaign to damage Labour in Isleworth anyway, then perhaps a MRAG candidate would not hurt Labour so much.Of course, a MRAG candidate would also take a few votes on the eastern side of Hounslow South (which is the ward that most closely reflects voting in the B&I constituency as a whole). So again - possibly a neutral effect.The only certainty is that a MRAG candidate would lower the votes won by all three major party candidates. My view is only marginally so - but Phil and Steve would probably disagree. Overall, though, the net effect in the battle for control of the seat - pretty minor, is my guess.

Robin Taylor ● 6116d

Andrew,I'm sure that unlike Phil, you are level-headed enough to accept at face value a straight answer to your post ...(i) I've never spoken to Ann about Mogden - that's why the repeated questioning about Ann's position has not succeeded in prising an explanation from me. (Just to put this into perspective, by the way, I had not seen nor spoken to Ann once between the time of the Feltham South by-election of 1993 and February of this year - honest! And since February, we've probably had no more than a dozen verbal conversations).(ii) I'm not Ann's spokesperson, either. I'm just an individual with my own views who happens to be a strong supporter of the MP. How can I be her spokesperson when I personally tend not to agree with the Mogden expansion? (That is just my opinion, by the way - based on my limited knowledge of the subject matter derived from some of the things I have read about it on this forum and elsewhere -and I could be wrong). Having said that, her position is no different to that of the Tories or Lib Dems - and since the expansion decision is one for the local authority rather than for the MP, I suppose I can see why she would want to try and make the best of the decision that has been taken and why she perhaps thinks that she can hold TW to its obligations by working with them constructively. I don't know if that is her thinking, but it's my best guess.(iii) Despite the way Phil Andrews slams Ann Keen on this issue in the Mogden article in today's Times, he refuses point blank to criticise the Tories (who have the same stance as her). Yesterday, on the W4 forum, Tory Cllr Sam Hearn expressed his support for expansion - and Phil quite pointedly (and resolutely) would not criticise him at all. So really, it's all political at the end of the day.(iv) Contrary to your speculation, I can assure you that I played no part at all in persuading Ann to hold the meeting with TW. I'm sure it's something that any half-decent MP would do as part of his or her job.Phil will now just contradict everything I've said. Please ignore him.Lastly, Andrew, I'm interested in your remark about the Tories allegedly receiving a hefty donation from TW. The last I heard was a £50k donation in 1992. If you have an up-date then I (and I'm sure, the residents near Mogden) would be happy to hear about it.

Robin Taylor ● 6116d

"Don't you know they say it's the first sign of madness, Robin?"Yes I do, Phil. Why is why I urge you to seek help.

Robin Taylor ● 6116d

"...those happier, more talented or prettier than themselves"Interesting post.  Just out of curiosity, which of the above do you consider yourself to be Vanessa?

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

Thought this might be of interest from Stuart Maconie in The Mirror - 'I have similar feelings about the word 'blogosphere'. I t means that funny little world inhabited by bloggers - someone who spends their life writing a 'blog' or online diary containing their thoughts on celebrities, asylum seekers, the NHS, the war in Iraq, Jordan, the lack of parking facilities in Penrith or anything else they happen to have a bee in their bonnet about. ..........But let's face it, most of the time blogger is a fancy name for a self-obsessed bore who can't get their stuff published any other way. They read like rants to the local paper or the virginal diaries of a teenage boy. Except with added nastiness and pomposity, and the potential to be read by millions'.It finishes by saying 'I'm a great believer in free speech. It's one of the reasons that men and women from this country have shed blood on foreign soil. But freedom of speech doesn't mean a licence to spread vile untruths or settle scores or bring down those happier, more talented or prettier than themselves. In other words, it's too precious to waste on a few weirdos playing silly bloggers'.

Vanessa Smith ● 6117d

AndrewInteresting, but speculative.  Possibly this will give you an idea of how we, and our constituents, benefit from being in coalition:http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/Published/C00000262/M00005412/AI00047925/$communityengagementreport.docA.ps.pdf

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

In one respect Robin's protest that the other wannabe MPs are as guilty as his own in turning their backs on the people enduring this odour nuisance is fair comment.  Why is all the attention focusing on Ann Keen?  In another it doesn't explain why she has taken the position she has, and repeated questioning on this point does not seem to be very successful in prising an explanation from him.There seems to be all sorts of things going on in the background here.  The Tories have allegedly received a hefty donation from Thames Water and that might obviously explain their actions but the ICG are apparently more inclined to look at the local picture and see weak councillors being kowtowed by leading officers at the council.  That's what inevitably happens when reformists go into alliance with revolutionists, and what seems to be the ICG's unwillingness to break the coalition over the betrayal they have met could be read in several ways.Does it mean the ICG is confident it can torpedo the planning decision?  Or has it become a coalition without obligation, where it suits both parties (financially?) to stick together but with the ICG no longer under any moral obligation to support their partners?  Or will the Tories eventually see the big gaping hole they have blown in their own electoral base and try to make amends?What becomes of the threat by some members of MRAG to field a candidate at the general election?  Surely that wouldn't do Ann Keen any harm, has she deliberately lit the tinder box to try to provoke this into happening?  On the other hand would she be content to place an ICG victory in Isleworth beyond all doubt, as she would seem to have done, just in the hope of provoking an MRAG candidate to take the field at the general election?Robin Taylor meanwhile seems all over the place.  My sense, and it's no more than that, is that he has played some part in persuading Ann Keen to organise this meeting, possibly just by her reading his comments on this forum, and that she has gone and said something that she wasn't supposed to and messed it all up.  It must be something seismic to persuade Robin to want to distance himself from her.Would anyone dare to predict what the upshot of all this is likely to be when the dust begins to clear?

Andrew Penty ● 6117d

Sorry, I meant to say James (or james).  I believe Jack Dee is a comedian.  We had a Frank Carson over here for a while too so I was obviously getting confused.

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

jack...who are you dreaming up now in your fetid imagination?

James Dee ● 6117d

I bet you nearly said "Risible" before you remembered to say "risible", didn't you Jack? ;o)

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

risible response councillor, risible.

James Dee ● 6117d

I doubt whether they will be bothering now.  Robin has let her down terribly this time.  Just think, in her eagerness to outflank the residents she has made a statement which she didn't need to make, and by so doing has alienated all her potential voters within a 2-mile radius of the Mogden plant.  Then to compound her gaffe her faithful servant Robin, not understanding the issues and thinking she has stolen a march on the residents, announces it on this forum with a fanfare of trumpets.  What a faux pas!And now even Robin, her most loyal supporter in the whole wide world, is trying to distance himself from this calamity by telling us he has nothing to do with Ann Keen and is not her spokesperson.  Talking about kicking someone when she's down.No wonder he would seem to have lost control of his faculties over the past 24 hours or so.  If any other posters live close to him I would urge that they keep him under close observation.  I do hope he doesn't try to do anything silly.

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/8223710.stm

Colin Murphy ● 6117d

Don't you know they say it's the first sign of madness, Robin?

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

why do the keens bother they are just new tory and labour well why bother

Robert A Field ● 6117d

"It is a fact that you are a spokesperson for Keen, and I would guess even receiving some form of reward for doing so which you have never denied!"That's two lies in one."Do you really think anyone gives a toss what some obsessive groupie of Keen who lives outside the borough posts on Hounslow forums?"Well, you give a toss - which is why you've posted four comments against me on this forum just this morning.

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Oh please explain this as I am all ears?It is a fact that you are a spokesperson for Keen, and I would guess even receiving some form of reward for doing so which you have never denied!It is also a fact that Keen was economical with the truth to say the least on her recent Labour leafletFinally to you really think anyone gives a toss what some obsessive groupie of Keen who lives outside the Borough posts on Hounslow forums?

Paul Fisher ● 6117d

Paul,Your last post shows that you, too, are a liar.

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Well I agree with him about points A and C and have no idea about B so why should he apologise?Now back to Keens leaflets and her economical use of the truth contained in them?

Paul Fisher ● 6117d

As you know, Paul, I don't devise Labour literature for the Hounslow borough.As far as "lies" go, didn't your colleague Phil Andrews tell the following lies about me:-(i) Claiming I am a spokesperson for Ann Keen;(ii) Claiming I post under the names of JonJoHobbs and Jack Dee;(iii) Claiming I tried to destabilise al-ayobi as URA Chair.... Will Phil be apologising?

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Do you ever tell the truth on your leaflets though Robin? I recall Keens recent Brentford leaflets being exposed as full of lies and yet still your comrades would not apologise!!

Paul Fisher ● 6117d

I don't recall Ann saying she was "overjoyed" at the prospect. She presumably did the same thing as your Tory allies on the council - she weighed up the pros and cons and came to the conclusion that expansion was the lesser evil (subject to Thames Water meeting its commitments and obligations).

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

I cannot wait to see the reaction in the Isleworth area to the Labour leaflet which proclaims that Keen is overjoyed with the proposed expansion at Mogden!Robin,give me a call and I will deliver them myself as you seem to be a tad thin on the ground in these parts.

Paul Fisher ● 6117d

James,You do realise that every time you post on here I get into trouble with Phil, don't you?By the way, why do you say "Ann Keen has no business continuing as an MP"?

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Phil,The decision to expand the plant has already been taken by the Conservative-led local authority. I hope that Ann will continue to do her best to hold Thames Water to account and to make sure it meets its obligations (although, as you know, I'm not her spokesperson).

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Phil Andrews, you come across as a complete prat. This constant fantasy you have about criticism of you only coming from one source is quite laughable. Are you so-cocooned by your narrow-minded mates on this forum that you don't realise that my reaction to you -- disgust/disbelief -- is the normal one? To someone who is non-aligned -- and to repeat (again), in my opinion Ann Keen has no business continuing as MP - you are an odious politico; and your attempts at feigning sympathy for her recent bereavement ring as hollow as your website's flesh-crawling pictures of you gladhanding prominent black british athltes like Linford Christie and Darren Campbell.

James Dee ● 6117d

RobinYou couldn't be more wrong.  We already have relatives of leading local Labour personages working actively for the ICG.

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

RobinSo now you have told us why you feel residents should not vote for Andrew Dakers.  Could you now please answer the question and tell us why, in the light of her support for the expansion plans, Mogden residents should vote for Ann Keen?

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

"I voted Lib Dem (for MP) ... reason - I couldn't stand Thatcher and her support of the apartheid regime ..."Steve, I've got terrible news for you. I think we may be related.You see, it was Thatcher's support for apartheid that made me dislike her. As a consequence, I voted for the Liberal/SDP Alliance in the 1983 and 1987 general elections.We better not do a DNA test, though (because, depending upon the results, Phil may never talk to you again).

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Oh dear oh dear. Robin PLEASE don't be so silly!  Ok I'll spell it out for you again. Yes - MRAG is a non political, non biased residents 'action' group. When I say 'we' - yes, I am speaking on behalf of MRAG by consensus. If I post or say anything out of line - any MRAG member can openly rebuke me.  I have no problem with that.  I have no idea of the political stance of MRAG committee members because I have never asked them because I don't care. MRAG members all agree to one aim which is to improve the environment for residents of Hounslow and Richmond pertaining particularly to Mogden. MRAG committee membership is a public document and membership is open to all. Over the years we have had some 20 committee members. Some have now left area. The current membership is:  Dr Trevor Whittall  -      St MargaretsCllr Phil Andrews -      IsleworthHanifa Dobson  -        IsleworthSimon Eaton-Walker -  IsleworthBarry Edwards        -  St MargaretsMurray Edwards      -  IsleworthCllr Paul Fisher      -  IsleworthSteve Taylor          -  IsleworthMarianne Welsh    -  Whitton Now, we can speculate as much as we like on who these ladies and gents would vote for in a general election. What I can tell you (if you promise to keep it a secret) is that Trevor Whittall was a Lib Dem Cllr and Deputy Mayor of Richmond some 7 years ago and Marianne Welsh stood as a Lib Dem Cllr in Whitton some 8 years ago but pulled out for personal reasons. As for the rest I honestly don't know if they are blue, green, yellow or orange. I don't care. As for myself (and I honestly don't care who knows and why on earth you keep pressing and goading) - I voted Labour some 20 years ago when I lived in Chiswick, I voted Lib Dem  (for MP) when I lived in Barnes and Tory for Cllr.  Reason - I couldn't stand Thatcher and her support of the Apartheid regime but I thought at the time the Tories would do a better job in Council. (as it happens I was wrong) When I moved to Isleworth I voted for Ann Keen as MP and ICG  (Phil Andrews) for Cllr. In the last GE  I was one of the 1,000 odd that voted Phil Andrews for MP. In the last Euro Election  I voted Green. When it comes to the next elections, unlike yourself, I will like most sensible people vote for who I think will be best for the Country and best for the local community. Now OBVIOUSLY the local Mogden issues may influence my decisions. I will decide as and when.  Referring to any 'attacks',  as you call them, or contributions to threads on a number of issues concerning Mrs Keen - yes, I have done so and I will continue to do. If she or Andrew Dakers or Mary Macleod or anyone else lays themselves open to question - am I not entitled to contribute? These are in my personal capacity and have nothing to do with Phil Andrews or Paul Fisher or Trevor Whittall or anyone else on the MRAG committee. I don't discuss with them and my views on personal issues may not be their views. If I say or do anything which would harm the MRAG objective of improving the environment, the members can easily have me removed and I would respect their decision and go without complaint and wish them well. Robin, I hope this is now clear to you - if I say 'we' it is probably in the name of MRAG - if I say 'I' - its me - so please don't confuse your obsession with politics and Ann Keen with any obsession I may have. And....I apologise to other users of this forum for repeating (again) the same old, same old, same old  for you as I believed it had been made crystal clear previously.

Steve Taylor ● 6117d

Andrew Dakers abstained

Steve Taylor ● 6117d

Well Andrew Dakers voted for expansion so who's left? John Hunt?

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

Okay, so you've explained to us why you feel the Mogden residents shouldn't vote for Mary Macleod.  Can you now explain to us why you think they should vote for Ann Keen, bearing in mind that she has come out openly in favour of expansion?

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

Steve,I notice your use of the word "we" - a clear indication that you are speaking for MRAG. You have spent the last several weeks launching repetitive attacks on Ann Keen on a number of political issues on the W4 forum - yet you say MRAG is a "non biased non political residents group".If you achieve contact with Mary Ma££eod then I predict that she will say whatever she thinks will gain her the most votes. After she is elected, however, (assuming that she does win) then you will find that all of your subsequent emails to her office will once again 'bounce back'.You and your members can count on it.

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

MRAG is a non biased non political residents group fighting to improve the environment of Hounslow and Richmondand whilst we are extremely disappointed in our MP's mis-handling of the Mogden issue, we have no direct connection to the Conservative Party and our emails to PPC Mary Macleod simply 'bounce back'. If there are any Tory members or activists out there who have the ear of Ms Macleod, residents would welcome her official statement on the current situation with Mogden and how she would deal with Thames Water and the local authority if she were to be elected MP. A contactable email address for Ms Macleod would also be helpful!

Steve Taylor ● 6117d

On the contrary, if we walk away we lose any influence we currently have over the situation.  The Lead Member dealing with Mogden is a member of the Community Group.  Have you thought who would be running the council if the current administration fell?  It would be the senior officers.  And just what is their position on Mogden?On Mogden we're fighting on all fronts but it is a fight we will win within the lifetime of this council.  Isleworth residents always win - ask Vanessa.Now, would you care to enlighten us as to why Ann refuses to support the residents?

Phil Andrews ● 6117d

... Well why not end the coalition on this point of principle (or is the £50k currently being earned by two ICG members of the executive too much of a disincentive?).

Robin Taylor ● 6117d

If you mean members of the party with which my group are in coalition - yes, absolutely.  Your point being?

Phil Andrews ● 6118d

"... our MP visiting Mogden, listening to Thames Water's side of the story..."What, like your Tory council colleagues?

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

For those interested in this topic I have written a brief piece about it on my blog:http://philandrews.blogspot.com/2009/08/now-ann-cuts-mogden-community-adrift.html

Phil Andrews ● 6118d

It is possible that I may have missed something here, so in fairness to you Vanessa I would be happy to give you the opportunity to enlighten me and other users of this forum who similarly lack your intelligence and insight as to the benefit brought to the community by our MP visiting Mogden, listening to Thames Water's side of the story and then declaring then herself to be in favour of the company's expansion plans.

Phil Andrews ● 6118d

"I fully expect this to attract the usual barrage of insults and negativity."Pot calling kettle again?The typical Smith response to an important issue which she failed to recognise and deal with a decade ago!

Steve Taylor ● 6118d

To be honest Robin it wouldn't have mattered what Ann had done or not, it would never be right or good enough for some, damned if you do and damned if you don't I'm afraid. I fully expect this to attract the usual barrage of insults and negativity.

Vanessa Smith ● 6118d

I started a thread to rebutt the lies that were directed at me in the press statement issued by MRAG and the ICG.Like I said, "nasty".

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

Robin,I did not think you could sink any lower but to use her recent bereavement to score political points really has hit rock bottom.She still managed to scrape together a press release during this period and you gleefully started a thread regarding it both on here and on the Chiswick W4 site so please refrain from taking the moral high ground?

Paul Fisher ● 6118d

Calling Ann "despicable" only a week after she had a close family bereavement.Nasty. But no different to what I would expect.

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

"Our constituency MP knew nothing about a controversial decision ... until nearly six months after the event".Phil, you're telling lies again.And by the way, if you think Ann is acting on my advice, then do you seriously think she would have sent a copy of her press release to you at MRAG?As I've said before, my view is that Ann should go round MRAG and deal with residents direct on this issue - until such times as you relinquish your political control of MRAG and allow it to be an impartial residents' body.But my views count for nothing because I'm not a Labour Party spokesperson and Ann doesn't take my advice. (But of course, I know you like to believe otherwise).

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

Steve you are being incredibly silly1./ Andrew Dakers voted for expansion (see your own posting of 06/05/09 22:25 on the "SHAME on Hounslow Council" thread).2./ I have never written any of Ann Keen's press releases. Paranoia is an affliction which both you and Phil seem to share.3./ You have previously hinted quite strongly at voting for Andrew Dakers.If you really want to help the community - stop using MRAG as a weapon to launch political attacks on Ann Keen.

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

My sincere thanks to you Robin for scoring such a spectacular own goal with this total rubbish about Ann Keen supporting residents in their fight against the odour from the Mogden Plant.I am unsure what reward you receive from this despicable woman but she will be after a refund when she realises how much your idea has backfired on her.When news gets out that she actually supports expansion then any remote chance she ever had of being re-elected will be gone for good and she can thank you for that as I will when the time comes and she is gone for good.

Paul Fisher ● 6118d

So from a very short press statement we learn the following:1. Our constituency MP knew nothing about a controversial decision, of massive import to thousands of her constituents and which has been highly publicised, until nearly six months after the event (as the quote reproduced by Steve makes crystal clear).2. Having heard Thames Water's case she declares herself to be totally in support of the expanion plans in flagrant disregard of the wishes of the residents she purports to represent.In releasing this press statement she has finally kissed goodbye to any last remaining pockets of support she may have enjoyed within a 2-mile radius of the plant - that is not just in Isleworth but also in Hounslow South, and parts of Syon and Hounslow Central.  Worse than that, the electoral beneficiaries of her blunder will be not the Tories (who have taken a similar position) but the hated community movement.What a massive error of judgement she has made in her eagerness to indulge Robin's resentment of the resident-led MRAG and its failure to subordinate itself to the benevolent wisdom of They Who Know What's Best For Us.I'm probably the last person who could be accused of being a fan of Ann Keen, but I genuinely do feel sorry for her in respect of some of the appalling tactical advice she seems to be receiving.I bet it was Robin's idea for her and Alan - known the length and breadth of the country as Mr. & Mrs. Expenses - to pose for the local papers for the opening of a new cashpoint machine a few months back too!

Phil Andrews ● 6118d

Robin you are being very silly 1./ Andrew Dakers abstained2./ Ann Keens Press Release (which you wrote???) states  "I was also delighted to hear from Thames Water  that the planning approval has been granted (subject only to a section 106 agreement being finalised) for the additional  treatment stream which will increase the treatment capacity of Mogden sewage works by around 40%" 3./ Where have I committed myself to voting for any particular party. Good heavens only a complete idiot would have made their mind up already. I am already quite interested in finding our more about double barrel ex Watchdog lady!If you really want to help Ann, and if you really want to help the community - get some answers on the health effects on infants and children. Distressed parents would be very pleased to hear from Ann on this subject.

Steve Taylor ● 6118d

"... Ann Keen only discovered on 22 August that Thames Water were going to expand Mogden".That it a complete fabrication."The SDC actually sat on 4 March and the decision, proposed by Ann's own Labour group, was approved."Yes, and who voted for approval? Why, none other than Lib Dem candidate Cllr Andrew Dakers. And who has Steve Taylor said that he will be voting for in the forthcoming general election? Why, none other than Lib Dem candidate Andrew Dakers.

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

It is disappointing but nevertheless not surprising to hear than Ann Keen only discovered on 22 August that Thames Water were going to expand Mogden, which sits in the heart of her constituency. The SDC actually sat on 4 March (almost 6 months ago)and the decision, proposed by Ann's own Labour group, was approved. Not surprising that an MP who no longer appears publicly in her constituency can be so out of touch with the community and realise its concerns. All readers of this forum, whether victims of Thames operating practise or not, will understand  that Thames Water's assurance that they 'recognised and understood the concerns of residents',  is absolutely meaningless. For Ann to be 'delighted' by the expansion and the 'assurances'  from Thames, simply underlines the view that she has little understanding of the problems and/or  the muscle to deal with Thames. Instead of running off half- cocked to talk to Thames she could have prepared herself for the meeting by talking to victims and she could have replied to the several emails sent to her by the Mogden Residents Action Group,  forwarded from concerned parents of infants and children, who are extremely concerned about the health hazard effects of Hydrogen Sulphide and the many other mercaptans manifested within the odour cocktail. Residents still await a response from the 'Junior Health Minister for Children' so it is extremely worrying that her press release makes no mention of these crucial matters (health effects on children) being addressed.It is well documented that the trigger level for extreme concern, and immediate action and abatement,  is when H2S levels exceed 0.018 parts per million. It is also well documented that  H2S monitoring from 1st June to 3rd August inclusive (64 days); during that period there were  33days when H2S exceeded  0.02ppm, a further 9 days when they were just on/just under 0.02ppm and a further 18 days when they were significantly over 0.01ppm. Last week readings taken off-site at victim's houses recorded levels of 0.04ppm!It is further documented that the expansion program is not designed to reduce odour - all Thames has 'offered' under the S106 is that odour should not be worse on completion in four years (as if it could get worse). From independent expert advice and past performance, it is indicative that it will get worse (if that is possible!!) during the expansion programme.For Ann to be 'delighted'  about the plight of suffering residents in order to increase Thames Water's profits is simply unbelievable if not disgraceful..

Steve Taylor ● 6118d

RobinI responded today to a press statement that Ann Keen herself had put out, a copy of which she had sent to MRAG.  It is unreasonable to expect me to remain silent as a mark of respect when she is not doing so herself.There may be some truth in what you say about Mrs. Keen's actions not being an attempt to divide residents.  After all, any possibility of such an outcome completely disappeared when she declared her unambiguous support for the expansion plans, a statement that could only have the effect of uniting them behind the ICG as it is now demonstrably clear that we are the only people speaking up for residents at a local level.At a parliamentary level it would seem that many thousands of voters living in the vicinity of the Mogden plant are currently friendless.  I wonder if anyone involved in the fray might wish to ponder that?

Phil Andrews ● 6118d

"I had been avoiding making any contentious comment on this forum regarding Ann Keen..."Correction: you launched an attack on her today in the article published on the front page."Your smugness over this transparent and frankly pathetic attempt to divide the residents ..."No one in the Labour Party is attempting to "divide the residents" and that remark is yet another example of what Peter Carey meant when he accused you of issuing propoganda that is "malicous, mischievous and total rubbish"."I would speculate that all the residents who have contacted Mrs Keen would comprise your good self, P Haling, JoJoHobbs, Robin Gandhi and Jack Dee - am I correct?"Oh, I don't know. It might include M Mehta, Molly Asante, Eric Baker, Rusty Brown and Radioactive Rissole. But then, you'd be the first to know if any of them were to contact Ann, wouldn't you?

Robin Taylor ● 6118d

RobinI had been avoiding making any contentious comment on this forum regarding Ann Keen as I am aware that has she recently suffered a bereavement.  Unfortunately you would seem to have interpreted this gesture as an opportunity to take a free shot, which I guess just about sums up you and those running your local party.Your post is propaganda overkill of such ludicrous proportions that it doesn't deserve a considered response.  Your smugness over this transparent and frankly pathetic attempt to divide the residents just shows local people what they are dealing with and if you truly believe that endorsing the expansion of Mogden is "speaking up for residents" then you really are staring into the electoral abyss.I would speculate that "all the residents" who have contacted Mrs. Keen would comprise your good self, P Haling, JoJoHobbs, Robin Gandhi and Jack Dee - am I correct?  Any real local residents have long known and accepted that to do so would be a complete and utter waste of time.

Phil Andrews ● 6118d