Forum Topic

CPZs Food for thought

Something happened to me today that drove home something that no-one including myself had considered over CPZs.While we are all concerned over whether or not we can park outside our homes etc. I found myself failing to do my duty as a human as a result of being too scared to park in a CPZ.One of my oldest friends, who now lives abroad has elderly parents, I've known them much of my life.They have become very frail and health is failing.I used to look in on them on a regular basis, fix the odd item etc. This was in Chiswick/Acton borders.Then the CPZ came in, Not unusually for elderly people, they could never remember where or even if they had any visitor permits. Twice I got a ticket while looking for the vouchers and appeals came to nothing.  It simply became too much a costly risk to visit.I promised to keep an eye but over the last several months, visiting en route home was put off in the fear of a ticket.I found out today that over this period they had declined and were found in a half starved state unable to cope and in extremely poor health.It was not just me that had put off visiting because of the risk of a ticket, so had all their other friends.Do I feel guilty? Very. In hindsight, far more guilty than had I got a ticket. It's only a car, not a life.But unfortunately, like most of us, I don't have unlimited funds and money to the tune of the fines is a deterrent. In this case a deterrent enough to ruin two lives.Made me wonder, just how many more old.and infirm are forced into a forgotten lonely existence as a consequence of over strict CPZs.They are now thankfully safe and recovering in good care, no thanks to me.If we have to have CPZ's, they should be minimal and nothing more. We all had parents and we will all probably one day be old and less mobile and more dependent.

Michael Brandt ● 6070d10 Comments

“If TFL scrapped the zone system by having just 2 zones with a flat rate, operated outer zone park and rides with large car parks out of the urban built up areas, offered London ratepayers and residents a discount fare and charged outsiders a different rate, many CPzs would become unnecessary overnight.”I struggle to see how having just two zones would be acceptable or beneficial.  The fare difference between zone 1 and 2 would be very large, would be unfair to those commuters just outside zone 1 and would lead to huge parking pressure near the zone 1-2 border stations.  “Outer zone park and rides with large car parks out of the urban built up areas” suggests that commuters in zone 2 would be expected to drive outwards to park before heading inwards on the tube.  I doubt whether offering discounted fares for London ratepayers (the vast majority of the tube’s passengers) would be practical given the army of administrators required to check eligibility and prevent fraud.  How would ratepayers be prevented from on-selling their tickets to others?I’m all for great ideas… 

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6067d

That's true about house prices but in the 1960's,70's and into the 1980's most of Bedford Park (where this happened) was bedsitter land with very few of those large houses occupied solely by one family.There were lots of small cars, mopeds and vans of all sorts around then.But now there is barely a flat or bedsit house left, they have all returned to family houses with a much more affluent community than existed before.There has been an increase in large cars and 2-3 car households but in the 70's there were several houses in the Avenue alone that had 7-8 vehicles!Certainly over the last 12- 15 years, the area had less vehicles but larger ones. But parking problems from commuters really only became a problem since the instigation of the Tube zone system.If TFL scrapped the zone system by having just 2 zones with a flat rate, operated outer zone park and rides with large car parks out of the urban built up areas, offered London ratepayers and residents a discount fare and charged outsiders a different rate, many CPzs would become unnecessary overnight.We are the only major city with No park and ride systemsCompared to other cities all over europe and now even the USA we are way behind and there is a complete lack of initiative and imagination.Everything here is either unbelievably costly, bodged or meddled by politicians, hugely complicated and somehow ends up lining the pockets of corporations. Even a great idea ends up being a third rate embarrassment.Why?....rant over!!

Michael Brandt ● 6067d

Michael - I agree with you that shorter-hours CPZs are preferable to longer ones, provided they are affective in dissuading commuters from parking in residents’ areas.  Longer hours may be required near major educational institutions, as students come and go all day.  “Prior to the CPZ, I don't think I ever had any difficulty in parking at their place at all. In over 30 years I think the furthest I had ever parked was on the opposite side of the road.”  The problem is of course that, by and large, the real cost of housing has risen over recent decades while the real cost of motoring has fallen:  result – more flats, more people (including young adults) in family houses, more cars.  The CPZs are generally the necessary outcome of this trend, not the cause of the problem.Tony - just maybe White Van Man lives in your street.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6067d

Yes I agree with all that.  I also think that it's possible that the glut of white vans may actually be due to the CPZs. It may be that in the evenings white van man hangs around until the CPZs aren't operative,and then nips in before the CPZ tax payers get home from work,and then nips out again before they start again...perfick! I'd probably do the same given the alternative £400+ charge for commercial vehicles.  It's a bit like the charges for WVM to get rid of rubbish at the dump,it's much easier/cheaper to find a nice dark spot down Tentelow Lane and hoick it out there,though I very definately wouldn't do that!

Tony Wood ● 6068d

Having argued virtually to the point of becoming a real bore on the other thread, I finally feel the need to add to this one too.I am (sadly) old enough to remember when Brentford had no parking meters, pay & displays or CPZs and guess what?  Brentford station like Brentford football club were both there at the time.  I accept that there may have been fewer cars around who knows, but parking was not a problem.  The Butts square was entirely used for parking before that strange cement square was put in the place of parking spaces and it was free to park there.  Now however as we all know, there are meters and pay and displays and wardens and my own son in law picking up 2 parking fines via cctv for stopping outside the bank in the High Street just long enough to withdraw cash, and paying and displaying but sadly he committed this crime at approx 8.00a.m. when you are not allowed to stop in a perfectly good parking bay (although no one knew this because the signs were and are incomprehensible) and, he managed to do this 2 days on the trot because he didn't know he had done anything wrong the first time.In any event, I digress, the point is Brentford, like everywhere else nowadays, is yet another cash cow as a result of perceived parking problems that did not exist before the restrictions that raise so much money were dreamt up.  Apart from the occasional commuter and obviously football supporters on match days, Brentford is not somewhere people drive to - there is nothing here for them to drive to.  People do not come to Brentford to go shopping. People do however live in Brentford and they are being fleeced for the privilege of having no real facilities, shopping or otherwise, by virtue of all the parking restrictions already in place and blow me down, there are those campaigning for even more CPZs.Perhaps we do get what we deserve!

Bernadette Paul ● 6068d

Having argued virtually to the point of becoming a real bore on the other thread, I finally feel the need to add to this one too.I am (sadly) old enough to remember when Brentford had no parking meters, pay & displays or CPZs and guess what?  Brentford station like Brentford football club were both there at the time.  I accept that there may have been fewer cars around who knows, but parking was not a problem.  The Butts square was entirely used for parking before that strange cement square was put in the place of parking spaces and it was free to park there.  Now however as we all know, there are meters and pay and displays and wardens and my own son in law picking up 2 parking fines via cctv for stopping outside the bank in the High Street just long enough to withdraw cash, and paying and displaying but sadly he committed this crime at approx 8.00a.m. when you are not allowed to stop in a perfectly good parking bay (although no one knew this because the signs were and are incomprehensible) and, he managed to do this 2 days on the trot because he didn't know he had done anything wrong the first time.In any event, I digress, the point is Brentford, like everywhere else nowadays, is yet another cash cow as a result of perceived parking problems that did not exist before the restrictions that raise so much money were dreamt up.  Apart from the occasional commuter and obviously football supporters on match days, Brentford is not somewhere people drive to - there is nothing here for them to drive to.  People do not come to Brentford to go shopping. People do however live in Brentford and they are being fleeced for the privilege of having no real facilities, shopping or otherwise, by virtue of all the parking restrictions already in place and blow me down, there are those campaigning for even more CPZs.Perhaps we do get what we deserve!

Bernadette Paul ● 6068d

I really struggle to find something positive about CPZs - apart from the revenue raising aspect from the LA point of view.Michael's statement says it all really - "Prior to the CPZ, I don't think I ever had any difficulty in parking at their place at all. In over 30 years I think the furthest I had ever parked was on the opposite side of the road."

Mick Brent ● 6068d

Hi Chris,In answer to your questions.Yes, obviously with elderly people it's better to call in daylight hours so I drop by during the day, My work hours are not 9-5 so I can occasionally do this if I'm in the right place at the right time.But the CPZ hours are all day into the evening.The CPZ butts onto another CPZ in Ealing Borough so there is nowhere to park and the few pay and display spaces are too far away and have always been full. The remaining free area is now really clogged and by then you are a 10 min walk away. Plus, you never know what you might need when you visit them, tools or a quick dash out to get them food, milk etc.Prior to the CPZ, I don't think I ever had any difficulty in parking at their place at all. In over 30 years I think the furthest I had ever parked was on the opposite side of the road.There was not really a problem there, it was though, a few streets away.I suppose I may well be put off by visiting if it was always impossible to find a space, but this was not ever an issue here.  But if you know it's a difficult to find space area it's usually possible to find some sort of space in a short distance, but at least no risk of a fine.If I were disabled or elderly?Well If I were elderly or disabled I would probably have a permit or no car at all and possibly have more time on my hands and less hectic lifestyle.But If I were an elderly visitor, I think I would feel the same and do the same, ie not visit.This is why in hindsight I think the CPZs with just a 2 hour daytime ban are better for residents and social patterns.

Michael Brandt ● 6068d

MichaelYes, a very sad story.Three questions:  1. Was the CPZ actually in force at the time you were driving home?  (Some CPZs have quite short hours). 2. In the absence of a CPZ, if there was no parking available at all (it having been taken by commuters) would you have been put off from visiting them by the difficulty in finding a car park within easy walking distance?  3. If you were elderly or partly disabled, would your response to 2 be different?

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 6069d

That's too bad.  I really feared that this sort of thing would happen with CPZ's and also in areas where daytime parking can be impossible.I've noticed that a lot of elderly people get rather stressed about CPZ's and parking permits, dropping people off at stations, only to find a camera has spotted this most heinous of crimes and getting fined more than a weeks pension weeks after the offence and long after they have forgotten.As far as I'm concerned all pensioners over 65 should have free permits for their home zone and a free allocation of visitors permits for their address only. Something should also exist for sole traders with less than 5 employees rather than a huge charge which could damage their businesses as happened with Intercomm who, located in a South Ealing side street lost 90% of their drop in trade and caused closure.

Anthony Waller ● 6069d