Forum Topic

ICG SPLIT

Saw an interesting letter in the Chronicle on Friday. It was from ex-ICG councillor Fred Muston, and it was having a go at Phil Andrews.It seems that all is not well in the Independent Community Group ;-)Here's the whole thing cut and pasted.>>>>>>> Was Pat his 'old mucker'?I WOULD like to congratulate Ed Saunt on his excellent interview with Councillor Phil Andrews.I would have liked to ask Mr Andrews a question of my own and wonder if he would give his answers to matters which he launched into the public domain in his own blog of May 10, 2009.Speaking of Pat Cole, who was deputy chairman of the Independent Community Group (ICG), he stated: "In recent months Pat and the leadership of the group had become slightly estranged, a thing which was entirely our fault but never intentional, as we all wrestled with the incredible demands on our time and energy of being so few involved closely - and disproportionately - in the everyday business of running a local authority."Many who know Pat cannot imagine her having ill feeling towards the leadership of the group over abandonment lasting just months; my information and Mr Andrews' statement leads me to believe that no contact had been made between Mr Andrews and Pat since the 2006 local elections. If my advice is correct it would seem it is an insult, rather than an apology that Mr Andrews has penned. During my time as a member of the ICG commitee, Pat provided us not only with a venue to hold regular meetings but catered for us very well indeed, without any charge at all over a period of years.With regard to 'Incredible demands on their time', Mr Andrews and family find enough time to pop over to Portugal during holidays, yet find it absolutely impossible to visit a lady who lives no more than three-quarters of a mile away from his home and has given him so much. Could an answer lie in the fact that Mr Andrews has never called Pat his 'old mucker'?>>>>>> FRED MUSTON Ex-Isleworth ICG councillorIn case anyone's wondering, 'old mucker' is what Phil Andrews calls BNP leader Nick Griffin

Councillor Sue Sampson ● 6010d125 Comments

Simon.There's quite a lot of stuff you've posted there, and I won't reply to all of it.I should just say that you're not being entirely factual when you say you've only slagged off Phil and not the ICG in general. If you re-read some of your emails it should refresh your memory about this. But you're correct when you say you haven't criticised Paul Fisher, and I even seem to remember you praising him on one occasion.You are, of course, entirely right to say you are entitled to express an opinion. I just think you've been a bit strong with some of the stuff you've been coming out with against the Labour Party in recent days (calling us all liars etc.), and I think this is rather at odds with you emailing me some of your stuff about the ICG.Despite never having given a commitment to do so, I will keep the detail of this confidential. I am certainly not someone who would forward your emails to Phil Andrews, and nor would I ever partake in abusing and tormenting you on this forum in the way that he, Jim Lawes and others have done in the past (once they decided that you were no longer 'useful' to them).I would simply say this to you, Simon. When you email stuff to one party and then start slagging that party off on the forum, you risk becoming a hostage to fortune. And as you know from past experience, if you did that to the ICG, they would take great delight in sh***ing on you from a great height (such is the gratitude they show to those who have helped them). I'm not going to do that, and I hope we can now draw a line under this.One final point - I've always said that I know you're not going to vote Labour, and it doesn't bother me. Like I say, I'm just glad you've acquired enough sense not to vote for Mary Ma££eod - because her party wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire (and remember, the ICG are in coalition with her lot on the council).

Robin Taylor ● 5996d

PhilLike i said Earlier yes i have emailed Robin a few times, but i never criticized the ICG, however i did criticize you regarding how things happened on Ivybridge which seems to still be going on, you have known me for years and you know i have always been honest to you what i have said and how i feel about issues concerning Ivybridge.On the other hand i support you when it comes to Labour stating your a Racist which i know you ain't and you firebombing someones house which i know you would never do or like anyone doing, Sue and Labour need to realize that you are a Father and a Deacon and you would not wish that on anyone, if they want to continue to believe it was a fire bombing then they are calling Sue's Neighbors lier's.It wasn't the ICG who stood outside Ivybridge Primary giving young Kids Labour stickers (dirty tactics to use the kids) and trick Ethnic Residents who was not sure how to vote but if i remember Labour stood there showed the Resident a Ballot paper and a Cross marked Clearly next to "Labour" to try and get the Resident to do the same, it wasn't the ICG who were promising residents bigger properties if they Vote Labour.Phil you know me i speak my mind and if Robin doesn't like that well sorry thats Tough.Like i said Labour certainly wont win next year we all know it so do they thats why they have Ann and Sue standing again as they Know they will loose anyway.Lastly do you think i would say anything bad that i would not sit down and tell you face to face, but trust and tell it to someone from the Labour camp behind your back after my Email a couple years ago i sent to Ruth Cadbury who gave it to you.....

Simon Anderson ● 5996d

"I've not the slightest interest in anything Simon may have written to you at a time when he may naively have believed you to be trustworthy, discreet or the type of person to honour another person's confidence."Well, Phil, that's just as well. Because I have no intention of betraying Simon's confidence by informing you of the detail of his emails."Simon is a man who is passionate about the things he believes in and this has led him on occasions to fall out with me, with some of my colleagues and with the ICG itself.  I have always respected him for this."Have you really? Well, Phil, the following quotes would suggest that you only respect him when he's doing what you want him to do:-------Phil Andrews talking about Simon Anderson, 20/01/05:- "I am happy to report that in a relatively short space of time he has proved to be a tremendous asset to Ivytag."Phil Andrews talking about Simon Anderson, 11/03/08:- "A man of questionable honour, honesty and integrity."------"Like the overwhelming majority of voters in Isleworth he is also bright enough to have drawn his own conclusions about your "firebombing","MY firebombing, did you say? Oh I see, so you think I did it. For someone who likes to threaten to make recourse to the legal system, you're very loose with your language. I wouldn't make a habit of that if I were you."I don't suppose this new wave of attacks on the ICG on this forum has anything to do with the budget situation, has it?  You seem very determined to provoke us into a position of support for a budget which we have made it clear we are reserving judgement upon. Are your members and friends in Education aware that you consider them so expendable"Actually, I cannot recall having made any comment about the budget. Are you now insinutating that I post under the name of Dave Hughes? And I like your comment about me being "determined" to provoke you into supporting the budget. So now if you do, you can blame me, can't you?It's always been the same. Phil Andrews - the bloke who blames everyone except Phil Andrews.

Robin Taylor ● 5996d

RobinJust in case you may have thought otherwise I've not the slightest interest in anything Simon may have written to you at a time when he may naively have believed you to be trustworthy, discreet or the type of person to honour another person's confidence.  Had he asked me I could have warned him that you were none of these things, but at least he knows now.Simon is a man who is passionate about the things he believes in and this has led him on occasions to fall out with me, with some of my colleagues and with the ICG itself.  I have always respected him for this.Like the overwhelming majority of voters in Isleworth he is also bright enough to have drawn his own conclusions about your "firebombing", but I doubt very much whether this will deter you from anything of a similar nature that you may have in mind for next year's campaign for the reason that you lack imagination every bit as much as you lack scruples, basic local knowledge or political acumen.I can only repeat what I said to you on the matter once before - just don't get caught, because if you do we will be quite relentless in pressing for prosecutions.  I don't suppose this new wave of attacks on the ICG on this forum has anything to do with the budget situation, has it?  You seem very determined to provoke us into a position of support for a budget which we have made it clear we are reserving judgement upon.  Are your members and friends in Education aware that you consider them so expendable?

Phil Andrews ● 5996d

Well well well. Perhaps there hasn't been an ICG split, simply a split between Councillor Andrews and the leader of the current Administration, Councillor Thompson. I really don't know. However, what I do know is that in the early hours of May 5th (to clarify, between 4.30 and 5.00 am) I received a phone call from Sue Sampson to say that someone had fire bombed her house. This was of course, the day of the local elections.I went straight round to see her as she was obviously very distressed. No, there had been no loud drinking party in her garden the previous evening, and even if there had been, could anyone condone or justify this act? After making sure that Sue and her children were safe and that the Emergency Services were in attendance, I contacteded Ann Keen. She did not arrive before the Fire Brigade or any other Emergency Services, indeed the whole of Sue's garden was cordonned off by the Police before I arrived there, some ten minutes after the call from Sue. The forensic team at the scene confirmed that an accelerent had been used. I can confirm that neither Sue, Ann or myself contacted any press, the fact that the Evening Standard reporter arrived was because the Ward was being heavily contested and that there had been an incident involving one of the candidates in that ward.What no one has said, since then is the amount of bullying and verbal abuse that Sue received from ICG supporters as we were waiting, outside Hounslow Civic Centre, to go in for the count and results, to the point that I had to make a Police Officer aware that ICG supporters were very angry and, in my opinion, being vexatious in their attitude towards Sue.So, before we go into the next local elections, could every candidate for election please, if elected, work to improve the lives of Hounslow people.Oh,and by the way, the Labour Party reduced the majority of the ICG vote in Isleworth by a significant amount.

Christopher Boucher ● 6002d

The Sunday Times reports that our Annie is claiming for yet another office so how may does this lazy MP actually need and where is it,Waterloo or the derilict Brentford shell she claims to live in? Perhaps Robin as her spokesman uses it and writes the letters from Sue and Gloria there as well as advising her to promote the expansion of Mogden?THE health minister, Ann Keen, is facing a parliamentary inquiry after receiving £12,000 in expenses for an office at home, despite having three other official workplaces.Keen, a former parliamentary aide to Gordon Brown, received monthly cash payments of £250 for at least four years in an arrangement with the House of Commons authorities that did not require her to submit itemised receipts.She enjoys the use of three other offices: one in parliament, an office at the Department of Health, and a constituency office in her Brentford and Isleworth seat in west London.Her husband, Alan Keen, Labour MP for Feltham and Heston, also in west London, also received regular payments of £250 a month to fund an office at home during the same period — although he had to submit specific claims.It is not known whether the couple — who have been nicknamed “Mr and Mrs Expenses” — were claiming for the same home office.Ann Keen has refused to say how the money was used or which of her two homes the office is located in.She has also declined to comment on why she needs a home office paid for by the taxpayer.Keen and her husband share a flat in a luxury Thames-side block a short walk from Westminster and a house in Brentford that was unoccupied for a year, according to their neighbours.Squatters reported seeing a “dusty old computer” in a back office after they broke into the couple’s Brentford house earlier this year to highlight the extent of MPs’ expenses.The Keens have claimed almost £140,000 over four years towards the cost of their Thames-side flat even though their main home is less than 10 miles away.The payments for Ann Keen’s office have emerged as a result of a freedom of information request by The Sunday Times about direct funding to a minority of MPs.Although a handful of members have mobile phone and laptop charges paid directly by the Commons, Keen is the only MP who is given payments for use of her “home as office”.The payments were made from April 2004 to March 2008. It is not known whether the funding arrangement has continued since last year because the House of Commons refused to release the information.Matthew Elliott, chief executive of the TaxPayers’ Alliance, questioned why Ann Keen needed so many offices. He will refer the matter to John Lyon, the parliamentary commissioner for standards, this week.“The cash handouts are highly questionable, and must be investigated by the parliamentary authorities,” he said.“Why should taxpayers subsidise a home office when they are already footing the bill for others? Mrs Keen has shown utter contempt for her constituents by refusing to explain or justify her actions.”"

Paul Fisher ● 6004d

I have to concede that that post was quite witty for you Robin.  Badly informed, but witty.It intrigues me that in spite of the fact that you think I am Steve Taylor, Dave Pavett, John Murphy and Stephanie Kitsune all rolled into one you are the only person here who still thinks Tony S. are two different people.  Bizarre.But on the matter of fundraising I would hazard a guess that some of your recent quotes and those from Sue must be worth - what - an extra four hundred quid?  Five hundred even?  That's a lot of leaflets when you've got your own printing press and, unlike New Labour, we're not short of people to put them out (how you must miss the days when you could slip them into HM Magazine and let the voters themselves pick up the tab!).So keep it coming Robin and don't slacken the pace.  If there's a few old racists that you can deceive into thinking that we have any sympathy with them then we'll probably end up with their money too, as well as the donations and support we get from those who know better.  You really are a tactical genius Robin, aren't you?In the meantime the people of Isleworth look forward with baited breath to the arrival of the Sue, Robin and Manria Show, with a bit of extra moral support issuing forth from the kid from W4 and the other guy in the boozer.  Coming to an estate near you for four weeks only and culminating in a display of fireworks provided by the lead performers themselves.There will be another performance running coterminously and the whole display ends with the Acid Queen turning into a pumpkin a few hours after the polling booths close.And as the star performers exit stage left the supporting cast will be quietly sweeping up elsewhere, as before.It's a classic in the making.

Phil Andrews ● 6008d

RobinWe could have this conversation for ever, but I can do no more than simply ask you one last time to look at the way you and yours are conducting your politics in and around Isleworth and ask yourselves whether it is achieving anything.  And more importantly, whether there is any reason other than blind and arrogant self-belief to think that it will achieve anything in the future.Assuming that you want political power back for your party, where have all the smears and trickery got you?  1998 - lost one seat.  2002 - lost three seats.  2006 - lost six seats, and with it control of the local authority.  Is this really a record to be smug and proud of yourself about? I do feel I'm wasting my time with you, and that you and your associates are not going to allow a consistent record of failure and copious helpings of your just desserts (pun intended) to steer you from the path that you have decided to follow.  Your faith in your own cleverness and unerring wisdom seems to work in dirctly inverse proportion to your political success.Yet again you miss the glaringly obvious (to everyone except yourself) and crucial point that it was the scheming and trickery of you and your ilk that led to the creation of the ICG in the first place and to your defeat, and you similarly ignore the fact that it is your refusal to deviate from the politics of the gutter that sustains the community movement and prolongs your isolation indefinitely.Missing the point yet again, you will console yourself by asking why I of all people should be giving you advice.  You will conclude that by responding to you and pointing out your errors I am demonstrating that your underhand methods are "getting to me", and that more of the same is therefore in order.  You will do this because your mindset is such that you are just not capable of conceiving a wider vision.I can only repeat (and you will continue to reject) my view that there is some good even in what remains of the local Labour Party and that most of your people have something positive to offer if only they were prepared to do so.Take Sue Sampson - a local girl, courageous (she must have been to send her kids out to swear at and abuse our canvassers and their constituents on the doorsteps no more than a day or so after we had allegedly tried to murder her!), and still possessed I'm sure of some political principles acquired from the experience of growing up, as I did, in a working class community.  I've no doubt that, shorn of the debilitating negativity which surrounds the Keen machine and its local operation, she would make a pretty decent councillor and she is young enough for this still to happen.  But what is she doing?  Grubbing in the gutter, writing letters to the newspapers deliberately misquoting those she deems to be her opponents (do she and you really believe we will not, at some point during the campaign, demonstrate your deceit by providing voters with the full context of the "old mucker" quote, for example?), effectively threatening vulnerable people on their doorsteps that all manner of abominations await them at the hands of the ICG unless they vote for her and her miserable party?I believe Sue has made a mistake and has demonstrated her political naivete by being taken in by you.  As you know other, more experienced folks in the local party give you a wide berth, rejecting your deranged messages and suggestions as to how to run their local campaigns.  After all you don't even have the courage to meet them in person, do you?I realise that for your party in and around Isleworth it is currently "any port in a storm", but I truly believe that the Labour Party in the area will, one day, actually see the value of working with other members of the community as equals rather than potential masters and that some fusion of your former values and of the wider community's interests will take place for the benefit of all.It is frustrating watching your local party devour itself with its bitterness and frustration and I do confess that when we took Isleworth by such a margin in 2002 I had no inkling that we would still be having to contend with this low, subterranean activity eight years hence.  I have to admit that I had assumed that through some kind of process of natural selection the dross would have been discarded and a new, more constructive and community-friendly mentality would emerge from the ashes.I anticipate a "Yah-boo, you too" response or a "yawn", but I consign these comments to record not so much for your benefit but for that of others who might revisit this post after your next drubbing at the polls (indeed I have decided that you are going to lose three more seats elsewhere in the borough as a gesture of my displeasure at your being allowed by your party in Hounslow to poison our local politics).I'll leave you, Robin, with that thought and with the ICG watchword - "We come in peace, we leave you in pieces".  Please don't complain to me when your fourth election campaign in a row ends in well-deserved dismal failure because it really couldn't happen to nicer people.

Phil Andrews ● 6009d