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DaveWith respect I don't think you've thought this through very well.Jiwan Virk - when are the Tories going to make him Mayor?  We already have a Mayor, and he is the last one we'll have before the elections.  Is Cllr. Virk going to be re-elected after May 2010?  What as?  Presumably Labour hasn't reselected him, the Tories won't want him and he hardly has the profile of a John Connelly or a Luke Kirton that would enable him to be elected as an independent.John an unknown quantity?  Well if you don't know him after nearly 28 years I guess you never will.  But he has already posted elsewhere that he opposes some of the current proposals so I have difficulty envisaging him becoming the saviour of this Conservative budget on the night.Likewise the Liberal Democrats have already made their position clear on some of the proposals by supporting the Labour amendment on Tuesday.  I'm not quite sure how "getting rid of public transport" will "clear up pollution" and there are no proposals that I am aware of to ban buses from Hounslow, close train stations etc., but, moving swiftly on...The West Area Independents - a promise of area committee chairs?  Like you say, I hardly think that one is a runner, considering.And so, we're back to the original conundrum - how to outvote 30 councillors in a council chamber comprising 60 councillors whilst allowing six of one's colleagues to mix their votes.  That's accepting at face value that the ICG needs to be "allowed" to do anything - in fact we'll do as we please.  No offence meant Dave, but I hope whoever is responsible for putting together Labour's alternative budget has a better head for figures than you have.

Phil Andrews ● 6000d

Robin TaylorAfter reading the recent exchanges between John Connelly and yourself on this tread, I now find that there at least two people of a political persuasion who can hold a decent debate, unlike some current councillors or ex councillors who post on this forum.It’s a good job that most of the Borough's average Joe public doesn’t read this forum as some current serving Councillors would not be elected again.I voted Tory in the last council elections, but if I lived in Isleworth at this present time, some of the local Councillors would really struggle to gain my vote, based on what I read on here.I know there are some very good Councillors in all the local political parties, pity they all couldn’t be included in one coalition to run the borough, but we do not live in an ideal world, so are stuck with someone has to win with a large majority so we can walk over the opposition.  Keep on posting the way you are now Robin, you could persuade me to vote Labour, if I had a good candidate in my part of the borough.I might be way out of order when I say, the dirty side of local politics seems to be played out on the this forum and weather you guys like it or not, it will sway the general public (of which I am one) one way or another.I am probably very naive to think that we had moved on from the political posturing that goes on this forum; it may be a bit of fun amongst the political parties and for want of a word, political “agitators”, but you of all people know how fickle the general public can be.

Ian Roberts ● 6002d

John,I recognise that you are going to oppose much of what I say - for the obvious reason that you see me as a cheerleader for the Keens (and for Hounslow Labour Party in general).Clearly, your current status as an Independent councillor (having previously been Labour leader of the council) reflects upon the personality clashes that have occurred within the Labour group over the years.In many ways, this sort of thing makes me glad that I am on the "periphery" of Hounslow politics - because it means that my enthusiasm does not get undermined in the way that it would do were I to get continuously bogged down by the personalities and double-dealings that I'm sure go on in any political organisation.Although you have at times been a little scathing of me in your various posts, the enmity does not work the other way: you may not now be a member of the party, but if nothing else I respect your track record as being one that belongs to an anti-racist who fights for the underdog.Fwiw I, too, am disappointed that no Muslim councillor is likely to be sitting on the Labour benches after May, and I raised my concerns about this with Ann Keen and with others as far back as June. Ann shares my concerns, but at the end of the day there is little that she or anyone else can do if the members choose to vote a certain way in the selection meetings. It is always important for us to respect democracy and not to jump to conclusions about why people may have voted one way or another.I think Nisar Malik (who is, by the way, a strong supporter of Ann) is a good councillor, and I did try to persuade him to go for the Hounslow Heath selection after he lost out in Central. I'm not sure if he has tried for it or what the current status of the selection is, but it's possible that now he is trying to manage the halal meat section in Asda (as well as looking after his own shop on Kingsley Road) his time may be taken up with other things.My view about Nisar is not in any way meant to be a criticism of those who won the Hounslow Central selection. I don't think it's top secret information for me to mention that Pritam Grewal was obviously concerned when his wife lost the selection in Hounslow West, and wanted to move her to Central.As for Lily Bath, she is one of the nicest people I've ever met in politics - and does not have a spiteful bone in her body. She is definitely parliamentary material.Part of the difficulty that Nisar faced in Central was the one woman rule (by which each ward's slate of three candidates must include a female). Well, I agree with that rule and the good thing is that we now have two women standing as our candidates in Central. That should go some way towards bringing about more gender balance (the lack of which is something that Phil Andrews and others have criticised the Labour Group for on this forum).Of course, race and religion should not matter, but what we now have in Hounslow Central is three Sikh Labour candidates versus a Tory team that comprises a white woman, a Sikh Woman and a Muslim man. For the record, the Hindu community is (narrowly) the largest part of the Asian community in Central, with Muslims being slightly more numerous that Sikhs. Most Asian people will ignore the religion of the candidates they vote for, but for those to whom religion does matter (and remember here, that Asian electors will be able to instantly decipher a candidate's religion just by looking at the name printed on the ballot sheet) the line up could cause complications in a close race.That said, having done quite a bit of canvassing in Central this year, it does not strike me as a ward which is about to elect a Tory councillor. The Tories have clearly targetted it - that much is clear - and having come within 150 votes of snatching a seat there last time, they clearly think it's a stepping stone on their road to an overall majority.One final thing: although it would be good for Labour to have Hindu, Sikh AND Muslim representation in the council chamber, the party should certainly take no lectures from the Tories or the ICG about diversity: you and Jagdish Sharma quite rightly spoke out when the SDC stripped power from the Heston & Cranford committee. We can see clearly from this precisely where the centralising Tories really want power to reside: what were the words you used? "Characteristic of fascist regimes".From my point of view, if I can use my tiny influence to help stop the Tories gaining (or holding) a seat here or there, then that makes it just that little bit more difficult for them to implement their nasty, spiteful anti-diversity agenda between 2010-14. You can't blame me for at least trying.

Robin Taylor ● 6002d

JohnA very interesting post.One thing which used to feature very prominently on Labour leaflets in my area and in Labour thinking in general was the cult of the personality.  Labour activists who sometimes gatecrashed residents' meetings on the estate on which I live would weigh up potential victims before furtively sidling up to them and asking, in the manner of some dodgy watch salesman, "how would you like to meet Alan Keen?"A large part of their election leaflets and pre-election publicity in local newspapers consisted of photos of "your candidate pictured with Ann Keen", standing together and grinning inanely outside Mogden Sewage Works or the local library for no obvious reason.  It was as though by appearing together in the photo Mrs. Keen's celebrity and all-round greatness would somehow rub off automatically onto the candidate and the message, although subliminal, was clear - "we have friends in high places, vote for us and we can pull the right strings".As we approach the 2010 local elections this doesn't seem to be happening.  It is as though the party itself has realised that association with Ann Keen (and presumably with Alan at the other end of the borough) is not a vote winner and that such manufactured photo opportunities are to be avoided.I agree with you too about Nisar Malik.  Early into his term of office he made one or two clumsy remarks which led to him becoming unpopular amongst many of my Conservative friends, but having witnessed at first hand his contribution to the Community Cohesion debate, his utter selflessness in actively supporting the administration's successful Beacon Status bid when he could have opted to play politics, and his obvious interest in the work of Hounslow Against Racial Harassment - which I formed in 2006 to replace the old "Multi-Agency Partnership" talking-shop I believe he has been one of the few stars of Labour's Class of 2006.  That such a talentless gaggle could see fit to dump a man of his calibre tells us much about their priorities, not to mention their overall lack of ambition.The injection of John Chatt, Colin Ellar and Corinna Smart into what they will consider to be "safe" seats suggests to me that they are looking to bring some big-hitters (speaking relatively, of course) back into the council chamber to beef them up in opposition during the 2010-2014 period.If Labour's ambition for the next four years begins and ends with being a smarter opposition, and if Robin's analysis which suggests that the Tories will remain fairly much where they are now is correct, then notwithstanding the inconvenience of the two elections probably falling on the same day the prospects for small parties and independents look pretty good.

Phil Andrews ● 6002d