Forum Topic

Route 65 Why is it in such a mess?

I used to think it was the 267 that was the poor relation to bus services in this district, and for years before that, it used to be the E2.But just what has happened to the 65?It has not been much cop since the days of conductors and routemasters and that was 1989 - 20 years ago!It's quite true that  road works all over the route have damaged the service particularly between Ealing and Kew. Passengers blowing a fuse because of long waits (often over 40 mins) is almost understandable.But nothing serious has been done to cover the problems during these periods.Seems odd that for the Gunnersbury Mela all sorts of bus improvements get pulled out of the hat, but the rest of the time?.... Nothing. But it is the missing countdown units, The missing bus shelter at South Ealing Station and the amount of short journeys that make it more intolerable. I have to say what really sets me off on a mardi are the incredibly uncomfortable seats in brand new buses on this route. An abomination.How on earth could TfL approve a design that clearly is not for humans, able or disabled.With all the rhetoric from both Mayors about quality and comfort being paramount to public transport and to make giving up the car a viable choice - This flies in the face of it all. These seats are so uncomfortable that it actually makes one back hurt all day. Not helped by the poor road surfaces from Popes Lane to Richmond and beyond.But in defence, I have to say the 65 drivers a decent lot and some deserve medals for the abuse they have to put up with.The fault clearly lies with TfL who cost us taxpayers a fortune in running the tender system and supposedly improving standards but are clearly failing and as usual it's us the fare paying passenger and ratepayers that pay the price one way or another.Grrrrrr!

Anthony Waller ● 5999d11 Comments

Please review your post. If everything is OK, click Submit below. Otherwise,click the Back button on your browser to make corrections.Topic: Re:Route 65 , Wednesday 6th fiasco Message:Looks Like the weather has postponed the works. The stuff is all there but nothing has happened...Yet.Last week the 65 surpassed itself, some 25 people freezing at South Ealing Station and almost all wanting to travel between Sth Ealing and Brentford, just a few wanted to go beyond to Kew. If you are coming home by tube, then the Richmond branch or SWT to Richmond and then a Ealing bound 65 is a better bet plus a 391.So 65 mins for a bus to appear, or at least a bus in service.  The road was ultra quiet for 6.30pm and did not start to freeze until @19.15 but the whole route I have ascertained was gritted.8 Ealing bound buses were observed but 5 returned out of service. at 65mins (deliberate time?) a bus arrived for Richmond only and just after boarding a Kingston bus pulled up behind.Normally around 7pm one bus runs out of service, depot bound and either turns right at the A4 or Brentford High st. 7 of these 8 buses make the correct amount of buses for the timetable.That evening the conditions were not too bad and as my other half managed to drive from Kingston to Brentford in record time with no difficulty it does not appear to have been a problem.Naturally, the 28 people went up to about 36 but then dwindled as some walked home. The footpaths were by then freezing and becoming too hazardous.After the 5th 'Not in service' bus passed, anger was becoming apparent and we all decided that we would all block the road if another one came along out of service and we would 'hijack it'.I can guarantee that we were cold enough and angry enough that this was almost certain to happen. And many were already off the kerb ready.When the bus did arrive, the driver had to put up with some serious verbal abuse, but he did not help by refusing to offer any sort of explanation as to what might be happening when he was asked politely by the first few passengers boarding.TfLs travel information line was - Can you believe this - suspended due to bad weather and simply referred its internet service.I finally got through to TfL on Thursday and I must by now have my name in red.However they did look into it and so far cannot offer any sort of rationale for why the service was so bad.I have suggested that they and the operators look into reverting to the old practice of running a short journey Ealing - Brentford for buses going off shift. This was common practice on this and other routes.  It is still very common in the other direction with sometimes consecutive running terminating at Brentford County Court or Brentford Great West Road.Short Ealing bound buses used to do a South Ealing termination but this is no longer possible as the bigger buses and a pedestrian obelisk now prevent the bus from turning at Church lane and the side streets are too small for the bigger vehicles. Bond St is now the alternative - which gets the bus stuck in Ealing Broadways traffic!One thing I did discover from TfL is that I was the only complainant about this 65 min delay.  I had suggested to everyone that they make a point about venting their spleen at TfL and not the drivers.30+ complaints would actuate action and true to British form, everyone whines but so few take action - which is why so much here is so poor.So if you were or know someone who came in freezing and fuming, do your bit and complain to TfL... Please.

Michael Brandt ● 5956d

Signs are up in Ealing Road (north) announcing major gas works. This is just months after the disruption of the water works.Looks like the 65 is going to be disrupted yet again.

Anthony Waller ● 5968d

I could not agree more with Mr. Waller, especially the seats, but they seem just as bad on other new buses as well. Why is this?I caught a heritage Routemaster on the 9 route from Knightsbridge today, it may be 50 years old but the seats are like armchairs by comparison.In reply to Chris, I don't shy away from complaining to TfL and have had cause to  about the 65 several times this year.  The responses have been dismissive, obstinate, contradictory and plainly, appear to not even have got a grasp of understanding the complaints.My main gripe has been the total lack of any sort of shelter at South Ealing Station. Another soaking tonight has me sitting here writing this!The service is constantly being severely disrupted by road works at several locations - not the fault of Transdev or the drivers. But TfL and the local authorities don't seem to be able to do anything. In fact, Chris has to be credited with being the only person to have acted swiftly in sorting the passing problems at the A4 end of S.Ealing Road.That by the way, has worked so well and made a permanent difference. I've written now to the Mayor and Peter Hendy, transport commisioner (and my brothers old schoolmate) Didn't help, not even a reply,  Bro should never have nicked his coloured pencils!The bus shelter was promised when the 65 was part of the Mayors/TfL 'Bus Plus' scheme- when Transdev took over the running and the bus service went 24hour. It's true that the improvement over Armchair and the 'Kingston bus' tendered mess returned to the service as good as it was when the route had conductors and Routemasters.The shelter though, never returned. The excuses are blamed on the repositioning of the stop on the bridge and that the shelter cannot be accomodated.So I went to the LTM archive and researched this a bit.What that really means is a 'revenue earning shelter cannot be installed'Some 70 years ago, London Transport developed the 'Q' shelter, a lightweight install anywhere shelter especially for locations where foundations are shallow or non-accessible and where access is restricted. They were simply bolted to reinforced paving slabs.It was simple, lightweight & robust. Designed around 1938, most withstood the war and the '87 hurricaneThe last one ironically, was removed from the West Ealing bound side of Northfield Ave at the Tube station in 2001.But TfL for reasons only known to themselves have claimed that these cannot be reintroduced as they are in breach of the DDA. Further enquiries cannot explain what that means as they cannot or will not quantify that claim. Especially as there is no DDA data on the current Adshel in use.The only difference being that the adshel earns revenue from it's illuminated adverts.It would appear that TfL entered into an exclusive contract and it is the interests of the advertisers that is really preventing a bus shelter being installed.

Michael Brandt ● 5993d

I could not agree more with Mr. Waller, especially the seats, but they seem just as bad on other new buses as well. Why is this?I caught a heritage Routemaster on the 9 route from Knightsbridge today, it may be 50 years old but the seats are like armchairs by comparison.In reply to Chris, I don't shy away from complaining to TfL and have had cause to  about the 65 several times this year.  The responses have been dismissive, obstinate, contradictory and plainly, appear to not even have got a grasp of understanding the complaints.My main gripe has been the total lack of any sort of shelter at South Ealing Station. Another soaking tonight has me sitting here writing this!The service is constantly being severely disrupted by road works at several locations - not the fault of Transdev or the drivers. But TfL and the local authorities don't seem to be able to do anything. In fact, Chris has to be credited with being the only person to have acted swiftly in sorting the passing problems at the A4 end of S.Ealing Road.That by the way, has worked so well and made a permanent difference. I've written now to the Mayor and Peter Hendy, transport commisioner (and my brothers old schoolmate) Didn't help, not even a reply,  Bro should never have nicked his coloured pencils!The bus shelter was promised when the 65 was part of the Mayors/TfL 'Bus Plus' scheme- when Transdev took over the running and the bus service went 24hour. It's true that the improvement over Armchair and the 'Kingston bus' tendered mess returned to the service as good as it was when the route had conductors and Routemasters.The shelter though, never returned. The excuses are blamed on the repositioning of the stop on the bridge and that the shelter cannot be accomodated.So I went to the LTM archive and researched this a bit.What that really means is a 'revenue earning shelter cannot be installed'Some 70 years ago, London Transport developed the 'Q' shelter, a lightweight install anywhere shelter especially for locations where foundations are shallow or non-accessible and where access is restricted. They were simply bolted to reinforced paving slabs.It was simple, lightweight & robust. Designed around 1938, most withstood the war and the '87 hurricaneThe last one ironically, was removed from the West Ealing bound side of Northfield Ave at the Tube station in 2001.But TfL for reasons only known to themselves have claimed that these cannot be reintroduced as they are in breach of the DDA. Further enquiries cannot explain what that means as they cannot or will not quantify that claim. Especially as there is no DDA data on the current Adshel in use.The only difference being that the adshel earns revenue from it's illuminated adverts.It would appear that TfL entered into an exclusive contract and it is the interests of the advertisers that is really preventing a bus shelter being installed.

Michael Brandt ● 5993d

I could not agree more with Mr. Waller, especially the seats, but they seem just as bad on other new buses as well. Why is this?I caught a heritage Routemaster on the 9 route from Knightsbridge today, it may be 50 years old but the seats are like armchairs by comparison.In reply to Chris, I don't shy away from complaining to TfL and have had cause to  about the 65 several times this year.  The responses have been dismissive, obstinate, contradictory and plainly, appear to not even have got a grasp of understanding the complaints.My main gripe has been the total lack of any sort of shelter at South Ealing Station. Another soaking tonight has me sitting here writing this!The service is constantly being severely disrupted by road works at several locations - not the fault of Transdev or the drivers. But TfL and the local authorities don't seem to be able to do anything. In fact, Chris has to be credited with being the only person to have acted swiftly in sorting the passing problems at the A4 end of S.Ealing Road.That by the way, has worked so well and made a permanent difference. I've written now to the Mayor and Peter Hendy, transport commisioner (and my brothers old schoolmate) Didn't help, not even a reply,  Bro should never have nicked his coloured pencils!The bus shelter was promised when the 65 was part of the Mayors/TfL 'Bus Plus' scheme- when Transdev took over the running and the bus service went 24hour. It's true that the improvement over Armchair and the 'Kingston bus' tendered mess returned to the service as good as it was when the route had conductors and Routemasters.The shelter though, never returned. The excuses are blamed on the repositioning of the stop on the bridge and that the shelter cannot be accomodated.So I went to the LTM archive and researched this a bit.What that really means is a 'revenue earning shelter cannot be installed'Some 70 years ago, London Transport developed the 'Q' shelter, a lightweight install anywhere shelter especially for locations where foundations are shallow or non-accessible and where access is restricted. They were simply bolted to reinforced paving slabs.It was simple, lightweight & robust. Designed around 1938, most withstood the war and the '87 hurricaneThe last one ironically, was removed from the West Ealing bound side of Northfield Ave at the Tube station in 2001.But TfL for reasons only known to themselves have claimed that these cannot be reintroduced as they are in breach of the DDA. Further enquiries cannot explain what that means as they cannot or will not quantify that claim. Especially as there is no DDA data on the current Adshel in use.The only difference being that the adshel earns revenue from it's illuminated adverts.It would appear that TfL entered into an exclusive contract and it is the interests of the advertisers that is really preventing a bus shelter being installed.

Michael Brandt ● 5993d

Accd to Driver TFL did not change the Timetable when the 1 way system in place Nr the Hospital that leads up to the Rising sun Pub

Simon Anderson ● 5996d

"A bus driver today told me the (H28) Bus Timetables are wrong and have been for 2yrs."That's interesting.I always find that the H28 is 5 minutes ahead of its timetable schedule when it's in the Spring Grove area heading towards Bulls Bridge. Perhaps that explains it.However, it always seems to leave Bulls Bridge Tesco on time.

Robin Taylor ● 5997d

You wanna try the H28 to Tesco Oysterley, 1 day a few weeks ago my wife and i waited for the bus and 2 didn't turn up.A bus driver today told me the Bus Timetables are wrong and have been for 2yrs.

Simon Anderson ● 5997d

I remember when Armchair ran the 65, it was *dreadful* - we'd get buses running in 2s and 3s with long gaps between. Loads of complaints resulted in Armchair losing the route and the new lot getting it. For a while the service was quite superb. Buses running on the dot, well timetabled, etc.Then - I guess - some idiot accountant decided to do a bit of cost-cutting. It's a good few years since I studied it, but as I recall, one of the interesting things about queuing theory is just how little resource you need to add or take away to achieve a step change in performance. Anyway, my guess is they're simply not running enough buses now to overcome the delays, especially at peak times.

Bryan Betts ● 5999d

The road works at Richmond Circus from July to Dec have been disastrous as far as the 65 bus route is concerned.  I have raised the issue through Caroline Pigeon on the GLA and had a fatuous responce from the TFL, consideration for the public seems nil.

Chris Dakers ● 5999d

Have you emailed TfL's London Buses with your comments?

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 5999d