Forum Topic

Minarets in Switzerland

It would be interesting to have a referendum here

Harley Buckner ● 6039d16 Comments

Dear Colin (I hope you don't mind me calling you Colin).I just need to clarify something... when you say "we save referendums for issues like whether we remain in the EU", would that include Labour's promised referendum on the Lisbon treaty?You can call me Harley (although I guess you might have other words in mind):-}

Harley Buckner ● 6037d

In Switzerland? Indifferent.

Colin Murphy ● 6038d

In Switzerland? Indifferent.

Colin Murphy ● 6038d

Place your votes please.Mine = FOR

Neil Chippendale ● 6038d

The BNP are left-wing bigots.

Colin Murphy ● 6038d

Thank-you for the lecture, I agree with much of what you say - however, I am bound to say that I will believe all this talk of religious freedom and multiculturalism when we hear about a row over building churches with soaring spires in Islamic states - I wish. This all seems a tad one sided to me and to many, clearly women in Switzerland are worried about the implications this may have for them, and given the track record of Islamic states where women's rights are concerned who can blame them? It may only be a minaret to you and me - it's what it is perceived as to those women we should be thinking about. Rarely have I seen such harmony in the fight to appear the most PC, and I for one am not impressed.

Vanessa Smith ● 6038d

Vanessa,Issues of equality, religion and gender are very complex - and there are many contradictions.People should be allowed, within the law, absolute religious freedom. Equally, the principle of gender equality must not be sacrificed on the alter of religious fundamentalism.The problem here is that all religions discriminate against women, but the right wing (who, let's face it, have not the slightest interest in women's emancipation) are only interested in bashing Islam.I really don't think that banning Minarets is going to make any material difference to the cause of women's equality - but then, as I'm a bloke it's not for me to say.I know you've always been a great admirer of the Southall Black Sisters (which Ealing's Tories tried to close down, btw). The SBS has wrestled for years with these conflicting concepts of equality.When they started out after the Blair Peach death in 1979, they were a group of Asian women who came together to give a feminist perspective on the struggle against racism.Over the years, however, their ideology began to chart a different course from other black groups in Southall (until, in 1989, they staged a demo against the Muslims who were marching in Parliament Square against Salman Rushdie).The SBS would argue that you cannot have multi-culturalism at the same time as ensuring women's rights - on the grounds that some cultures are inherently opposed to these rights. My view is that all cultures have sexist elements, though arguably some more than others.Today, the main emphasis of the SBS (apart from offering a safe house to battered women) is one of opposing religious fundamentialism in all its forms.Personally, I reckon that multi-culturalism is a good thing but that it needs to be underpinned by strong secular safeguards.One aspect of this that particularly pleases me is the decision to widen the scope of the Commission for Racial Equality into the Equality & Human Rights Commission - thus ensuring that racial equality is not defined in isolation from other equality issues (e.g. gender).

Robin Taylor ● 6038d

Dear Mr Bucknor,By this do you mean that you would like to see the general population wound up into an islamaphobic backlash by right wing bigots to terrify and belittle British Muslims. Or did you have something else in mind when you suggested a referendum here?As you know from your brief time as a Tory councillor permission for buildings, even minorets, is a matter for local planners and the appropriate committees of elected councillors. For very large schemes, supplimentary decisions are taken by the GLA and even the appropriate minister. I think this is still the best way to deal with planning applications rather than a national referendum. Yes, here we save referendums for issues like whether to remain in the EU (then the Common Market) or not, at least I think that was the last national referendum in England.

Colin Ellar ● 6038d

In Turkey the problem is many nationals move away and when they make there fortune elsewhere come back and build a minaret however its becoming a problem with so many being built and locals would rather people would spend the money on infrastruture ie better roads and the like.

Dave Hughes ● 6038d

From what I read yesterday - the minarets even if built could not call the faithful to prayer because of the law covering noise levels. However, it is women, and Islamic women in particular who are objecting to the proliferation of minarets as they claim they are a symbol of Islam's control of women, needless to say Swiss women are none to chuffed about this either. This is not an argument about architecture more what the architecture is seen to represent, to quote  -'Minarets are a symbol of a quest for political and religious power'. The row is also going on in Germany and Denmark and in Italy one town has put up notices banning women from wearing the burqa in public.

Vanessa Smith ● 6038d

RobinI was in Qatar recently and had the great opportunity to visit the Museum of Islamic Art while there and was blown away by the various artifacts and paintings etc on display and would highly recommend anyone who has the chance if ever in the area to go and see.One of the other highlights was the calling to prayer and the amazing sound which floated across Doha five times a day and this of course made me look up and notice the wonderful Minarets standing tall and proud but I have a horrible feeling that this culture will soon be lost to the ever growing commercialisation of the City.

Paul Fisher ● 6038d

Blimey, Paul - for once, well said!

Robin Taylor ● 6038d

Switzerland does nigh on everything by referendum which can be a good thing, but it has its drawbacks.  For instance I believe women only got the vote in about 1973 because every time they had a referendum on the matter the (male) voters said no.I share the view that the outcome of the minarets vote was regrettable and see no logical reason for it.  It wasn't a massive majority against, so hopefully there will be no major fallout in terms of community relations and voters will get another opportunity to consider this in a more progressive way.

Phil Andrews ● 6038d

I personally think that Minarets can be amongst the most beautiful and striking architecture around and always thought the Swiss were more of a tolerant Nation but it seems not which is a real shame.

Paul Fisher ● 6038d

Let's have a referendum about banning them, instead.

Robin Taylor ● 6039d

In what way would it be interesting to have a referendum?

Colin Murphy ● 6039d