Forum Topic

ICG- "a voluntary organisation"

Having received the latest ICG election leaflet I would like to establish how they consider themselves to be a "voluntary organisation",as opposed to a political party, with elected members to the local authority. All political parties have volunteers who deliver leaflets etc, but I have yet to see any main stream party declare themselves as a voluntary organisation. The dictionary definition I have for a volunteer is : "a person who freely offers to do something, a person who works for an organisation without being paid."Equally, a headline on the same leaflet is "Who needs Politicians?"My dictionary definition of a politician is "a person who is professionaly involved in politics, especially as a holder of an elected office." Surely, these definitions do not sit well together, unless of course, the elected members of the ICG donate all their earnings, as Councillors, to the coffers of the voluntary organisation they represent!

Christopher Boucher ● 5607d160 Comments

LOL....U haven't Knocked on my Door though...lol...Dont forget to knock on my Mums in Beechen Cliffe Way and My Sisters in Weavers Close mate!!Also has Shirley, Jon or Caroline done Cadbury Close Yet as my Mother in law lives there?

Simon Anderson ● 5597d

The ICG have been out and about every day Simon so sooner or later we would have got to your door LOL

Paul Fisher ● 5597d

I finally met one yesterday Cllr Jon Hardy who was working hard knocking on Doors always good to see Jon very pleasant and hardworking Guy who cares about the Community he serves.

Simon Anderson ● 5597d

Yes, my daughter did Labour,

Dawn Hardy ● 5598d

James with all respect i don't want one she ain't getting my Vote also the Tories were good enough to send a letter addressed to myself and 1 for my Wife.

Simon Anderson ● 5598d

I am aswell could off done with another piece off Junk for the cat tray...Has anyone had any Canvassers at their doors we haven't?

Simon Anderson ● 5598d

Good to see Andrew Dakers bandwagon rolling along. As I've said before, vote for a truly local candidate with a good track record.

Neil Chippendale ● 5598d

"Paul's attack was on Ann Keen, it was not on John Cooper or Ruth Cadbury." Duh - yes I can read Robbie and its unfortunate that you are so out of your depth and don't know the facts which are: John Cooper or Ruth Cadbury voted for expansion (TWICE) and Annie Keen, simply because she doesn't understand issues in her local constituency, ran off half cocked to Thames Water to tell the directors that she personally 100% backed their expansion which is causing environmental chaos in Hounslow and Twickenham. Mrs Keens action is unforgivable.  Nevertheless there are still some who understand and want to help as seen on the Forum as quoted hereunder“It was excellent that both Vince Cable MP and prospective MP Councillor Andrew Dakers both came along to Mogden today. They recognise what a blight on our local community this plant is and the complete failure by Thames Water to stop the odour which permeates the local area.“How shameful that our current incumbent Labour MP Ann Keen welcomed the decision to increase the plant’s capacity by over 50% when so many of her constituents suffer so greatly already.”

Steve Taylor ● 5599d

"By sending one communication addressed to your wives she will be able to send another addressed to both of you at a later date"Aah - I see. Then I won't cry sexual discrimination and I will await mine with great excitement. On the other hand if its addressed to me & my wife, she may just bin it before I see it. Damn - what should I do? How will I know who to vote for if I don't get a letter telling me how wonderful everything will be?

Steve Taylor ● 5599d

Steve and Simon, all general election candidates are entitled to one free mailout through the post office to each elector.  By sending one communication addressed to your wives she will be able to send another addressed to both of you at a later date and get the post office to pay for that too.

James Dash ● 5599d

"Ann Keen only sent a letter Addressed to My wife"Good point. My wife also received a letter but I didn't!I am offended

Steve Taylor ● 5599d

The Dakers bandwagon is a-rolling.  Everybody sensible on here and even on W4 is climbing aboard.  Robin and Vanessa can only sit on the sidelines and weep as the Keenster and her P45 draw ever closer.

James Dash ● 5599d

Robin,I haven't spoke to him for weeks so not sure and it would be up to him if he wants to meet with her.Its Clear that Mary and Ann are doing the same thing as Ann was on Ivybridge several weeks ago asking this couple she knows and supports her to try and get me to meet her i am not stupid Robin as far as i am Concerned Andrew is getting My wife and i's vote and my Mother in Laws too.Its a bit late for either Mary or Ann to contact me now and as far as i am concerned and i have told you this, i cant wait to see the Back off Ann like thousands off other Locals inc Labour supporters.

Simon Anderson ● 5599d

Simon,I've heard through the grapevine that Mary Ma££eod may be trying to set up a meeting with your mate Al Ayobi. I cannot confirm this for sure, but if it's true, how cynical just before an election.What on earth has she or her party got to offer the poeple of the Ivybridge Estate? Nothing. At least Ann worked hard on the committee that set up the National Minimum Wage - I bet quite a few Ivybridge tenants have enjoyed the benefits of that. The Tories said we couldn't afford it!

Robin Taylor ● 5599d

Is that why you never got voted as a Councillor when you stood 4yrs ago Chris because those who know you think you wouldn't do a Good Job i mean u cant even sort out a Bank Acct for the Resident Association you are Treasurer off.Not to mention being a Hippocrit

Simon Anderson ● 5599d

Right,I can see where the confusion came from now!

Tony Wood ● 5599d

DawnI used to do leaflets for her 2yrs ago and for Cllr Reid, then i never Herd from her.I sent her several emails and she NEVER replied now a few weeks away from Election day she gets in contact saying she always has time for me and we should catch up.Its funny that i become so Popular first with Ann praising me up to a couple on Ivybridge and suggestying we meet now Mary.Like i said MUST be election time

Simon Anderson ● 5599d

That's unfair, overtime we have received mail from Mary, when you consider that Labour have had to put 129 Marginal Seat's over to Charlie Whelan for Unite union meber's to run in as candidates if Labour win this election Charlie Whelan will be running the country.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

I did the same with mine.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Each day the election campaign goes by Nick Clegg decry's both Labour and Conservative, that is what I meant by buttering his bread both sides, after all you cannot go for one main party because if that party get's in. Big Trouble? Although I have nothing but admiration for Vince Cable he is a very clever man and should have reamained as Leader of the Lib Dens'

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Simon, surely this is because you openly supported Mary in one of your political switchings? Perhaps she didn't reply to your emails because she thought, as a lot do, "Oh my God it's that neanderson bloke again"

Christopher Boucher ● 5599d

I think it would be pretty difficult for them to ascertain, Simon.

Robin Taylor ● 5599d

Simon,The only reason Mary is suddenly taking an interest in you is because there's an election on. If she gets elected, you won't here from her again: because her only interest is in helping the super rich who are bankrolling her campaign.

Robin Taylor ● 5599d

I find this strange!!My wife and i recieved Letters addressed to us from the Conservative party but Ann Keen only sent a letter Addressed to My wife (which she put straight in the Bin)Then in the past 12mths i emailed Mary 3 times never got a reply today i get a Personal email from her saying though she is busy she always has time for me and would like to Catch up!!!

Simon Anderson ● 5599d

Why not Contact the Admin to Say you think "Paul Bray" is a Fake Poster then they can deal with it to see if they are Geuniune or Not.

Simon Anderson ● 5599d

I don't want you to alter your vote,I can't see any other party that fits your ideology.Give you proof,so I have to give you proof,but your claim that the Liberals will butter their bread both sides is future tense,you are guessing,that's OK is it?

Tony Wood ● 5599d

I really don't know I haven't take a great deal of interest, obviously if ICG have been doing dishonest thing's than that needs to be investigated immediatley, however making accusations and giving proof are entirely to different thing's show me proof??? and I'll alter my vote.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Sorry, you've lost me..................

Vanessa Smith ● 5599d

"Clegg is busily buttering his bread on both sides just in case there is a hung Parliament."what is you trying to describe in the saying of that,innit just the same as what the Independent CommunityBox Group have been doin of for ages?

Tony Wood ● 5599d

Voluntary was used in the last election pamphlets.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Why? would an Independent Group who had won a Council Election forgo representing the Community on the premise that they refused to sign a paper which would have refused them that position, "that of representing the community".Vanessssa is as usual Nit-Picking because we are not all Labour.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Paul Bray's post of 01:47 is straight out of the Phil Andrews book of charm.Just compare it alongside something Phil posted a couple of years ago:-"Please get some therapy, David."- The end of a Phil Andrews post directed at Dave Hughes(On the "300 more jobs to go at the council" thread, 25/11/07)."Get some therapy Fred."- Fred Bray post directed at Brenda Muston(On this thread, 14/04/10).Uncannily similar, wouldn't you say?The question is, why is Phil posting under the name of Fred Bray? He stated a couple of weeks ago that because of his campaigning commitments he would not have time to post on here. So why use a cover? Surely it takes the same amount of time and energy to post under the name of "Fred Bray" as it does to post under his real name..?

Robin Taylor ● 5599d

Clegg is busily buttering his bread on both sides just in case there is a hung Parliament.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

We have been over this and it was agreed that Mogden has been about an awful long time, why? when Labour were in for 26 years did they not do what was necassary,obviously that is conveniently forgotten.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Can you say that their have been things that have needed to be done and that ICG have not ensured that they were once made aware.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Are you not also a politician, you have as long as I have known you been a Labourite, ICG are minute compared to other's and if the biggies can ask for donations why not ICG, they have a very good record for the last 5 years, let's hope that they have an equaly good one for the next 5.

Dawn Hardy ● 5599d

Ian, thats the pot calling the kettle black.

Brenda Muston ● 5599d

If Robin's that bothered about electoral fraud , can I ask what he thinks of the explosion in postal voting under Labour that makes it far easier for family members to be bullied into voting the way the so-called head of the household or even community leaders want ?

Ian Speed ● 5599d

Get some therapy Fred.

Paul Bray ● 5600d

"Before this unnecessarily prohibitive legislation was introduced by the present government one could use whichever description one liked without having to register and fill out forms."Unnecessarily prohibitive legislation, you say? But do you know anything at all about why the legislation was passed?In the 1992 General Election, a Tory supporter stood as a candidate in Slough, and he filed nomination papers which called himself "The Labour Party Candidate". He polled 700 votes. The real Labour Party candidate lost the seat to the Tories by 500.A similar thing happened in Devon in the 1994 Euro elections, with a Tory supporter standing as a "Literal Democrat", and confusing enough visually-impaired Liberal Democrat voters to hand the seat to the Tories.Something tells me that had legislation not been subsequently passed, the ICG would now be putting up a candidate against Ann Keen and calling their standard bearer "The Labour Party candidate".But then that's the ICG for you. 

Robin Taylor ● 5600d

Fred finds it interesting that you should use a cover Phil. He can understand that you would not wish to be blamed for frittering away the votes you would have gained if you had not used the stupid ploy. He also believes you should stick to what you state you represent. At no time until now have you used the word volenteer to identify any councillor in the ICG and now you use it in general. Suggests to people you are using the term as a convenience, they will distrust you as much as Fred does and you know why that is.

Brenda Muston ● 5600d

I'M out of my depth, am I?You need to learn to read, Stevie. Paul's attack was on Ann Keen, it was not on John Cooper or Ruth Cadbury.Despite the way you've tried to spin it, the SDC made their decision and then Ann backed it up - not the other way round.But then perhaps we shouldn't be surprised that you follow Paul's anti-Keen line. After all, you are an ICG lackey, aren't you?

Robin Taylor ● 5600d

"The ICG are too much like the Tories, and people on my estate have noticed this."Rumour has it that thats why the people on your estate are having a tough time on deciding whether to vote ICG, Tory or Lib Dem. Its a tough one

Steve Taylor ● 5600d

"“How shameful that our current incumbent Labour MP Ann Keen welcomed the decision to increase the plant’s capacity by over 50% when so many of her constituents suffer so greatly already.”Where is his criticism of the Tories here? They actually VOTED for the expansion on the SDC. So why is all of his criticism reserved for the Labour MP?"Oh dear Robbie - you are out of your depth again. Labours John Cooper proposed the motion TWICE and Labours Ruth Cadbury seconded the motion TWICE. They were supported 100% by the rest of the Labour Group. This is unforgivable. Cllr Cadbury know and understands exactly how Thames operate. She was after all the Lead Member for Environment and she has chaired a few residents liaison meetings. She is not ignorant of the facts. John Cooper knows nothing of Mogden. He has never been there. He was wrong to propose the motion but Ruth was totally out of order in leading the rest of the Labour group to vote approval on this expansion. Labour have let the people of Hounslow (and Richmond) down - BIG TIMEAnd the biggest letdown of all time is that they won't apologise for their fault. But that sums them up doesn't it?   

Steve Taylor ● 5600d

Neil, Fred's husband is becoming typically confused.  Like you say, taking up one's post as a councillor is a completely different process to registering with the Electoral Commission as a political party.  An independent can be elected to the council without registering as a political party.  I think the point Vanessa and her crew are trying to make is that the ICG have registered as a political party.  In fact they will have needed to do this before their logo and description could be listed on the ballot paper.  Before this unnecessarily prohibitive legislation was introduced by the present government one could use whichever description one liked without having to register and fill out forms.  As somebody who has a good understanding of recent political history in this locality you will appreciate the hilarious irony of the Labour party crying foul over the alleged dishonesty of the ICG campaign.  As for Fred and his potty obsessions, well it's any port in a storm for the Labour gang I suppose.

Paul Bray ● 5600d

Why does signing the LBH papers mean your a political party. Joe Bloggs could sign up as a one off Independent.Did people think Luke Kirton was a member of a political party when he was elected as a single issue candidate.

Neil Chippendale ● 5600d

Ian, I think that Vanessa has made a substantial point. My husband has pointed out that although the ICG has made their objections to becoming a political party they have never refused to sign the papers which they must sign before they take up their positions on the council. I'm sure Vanessa will be able to give us more detail on the terms which were signed up to.

Brenda Muston ● 5600d

The Village News 61 quite clearly refers to a distinction between ' independent non-aligned candidates' and being part of the 3 major parties , of which admittedly the Liberal Democrats are quite clearly the least hubristic and most democratically minded.

Ian Speed ● 5600d

seems very similar to what the Conservatives are saying nationally.

David Giles ● 5600d

Shouldn't you be out canvassing?

James Dash ● 5600d

Well that's a matter of opinion, your community maybe - mine? no. James may well have a point about me losing the plot as I thought from all this thread chat and my understanding of the democratic process that the ICG ARE a political party and their elected members ARE politicians. Imagine then my incredulity at reading the 'Manifesto' which clearly tries to tell the world at large that they are no such thing!

Vanessa Smith ● 5600d

I live locally in Isleworth and I agree with what Robin says on this one. The ICG are too much like the Tories, and people on my estate have noticed this.

Sharon Smith ● 5600d

Do you not live in Southall or are you a local resident.

Dawn Hardy ● 5600d

Does it reaaly matter ICG have done a great job for our community.

Dawn Hardy ● 5600d

Quite the contrary, Vanessa hits the nail on the head. How can the ICG be "centrist" and "non political"? Just look at the crap that Cllr Paul Fisher came out with on the front page article about Mogden:-“How shameful that our current incumbent Labour MP Ann Keen welcomed the decision to increase the plant’s capacity by over 50% when so many of her constituents suffer so greatly already.”Where is his criticism of the Tories here? They actually VOTED for the expansion on the SDC. So why is all of his criticism reserved for the Labour MP?I'll tell you why: it's because Paul trousers his £25k councillor allowances thanks to the Tories - they are his coalition partners, so they escape all criticism.The ICG will never be "centrist" so long as they show such blatant bias in favour of the Tories and against Labour.

Robin Taylor ● 5600d

It sounds to me like Vanessa Smith is already starting to lose the plot with three weeks still left to go.  Not looking good for Liebour truly.

James Dash ● 5600d

Ok when i have emailed Miss K££N to help on matters before i NEVER got a Reply back.When i have been contacted by Residents on Ivybridge with problems and gave them her Details she has NEVER contacted them back.The only time you here from Mrs K££n or she wants to Help is around Election dates

Simon Anderson ● 5600d

"MEMBERS of the Independent Community Group (ICG) do not consider themselves as belonging to a political party.  The ICG is generally speaking a centrist organisation but one which believes in bringing about radical change to empower communities rather than political vested interests and bureaucrats". I thought it had been established that they had registered as a political party? Here we go again, if it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck - then it is a duck, and the ICG IS a political party, whatever they 'consider'.

Vanessa Smith ● 5600d

Obviously I must bow before your superior knowledge of these things.

Vanessa Smith ● 5600d

Because i do

Simon Anderson ● 5600d

How can you possibly know that?

Vanessa Smith ● 5600d

You could try Kath Richardson ...

Ian Speed ● 5601d

Who the hell is the moderator of this forum I have tried twice to respond with a copy of your immoral paragraph and they have bloody well censored me again.

Dawn Hardy ● 5601d

You clearly didn't get very far in your english exams Dawn.

Brenda Muston ● 5601d

Sweetie, have another look at your post you used the word immoral.

Dawn Hardy ● 5601d

I suggest you get your dictionary out and look at the word moral dawn.

Brenda Muston ● 5601d

Yes Ian, start with Labour election promises 1997 particularly on crime and education then right the way through to Blairs phony wars which are responsible for killing (even today) thousands upon thousands of innocent people.

Brenda Muston ● 5601d

This is becoming deflamatory, and really shouldn't be aired on this forum, you obviously feel that you have a greivance, perhaps you should meet whomever has upset you and discuss it, not air partof it on here, immoral is a very strong difinitive word and speculation will be rife.

Dawn Hardy ● 5601d

Like I said Chris you were VERY happy for me to be involved in 03-05 when i didnt live on there but not Now is it Because i dont Kiss a certain parties MP's Backside no more  :-)

Simon Anderson ● 5601d

Simon,My reply is this, and it is the last one I reply to in terms of your involvement with Ivybridge. Put simply, which I presume you understand, I lived in Leeds and other areas of Yorkshire before I moved to London and was involved in tenants groups there. I moved from there and therefore have no say in how they operate now, even though I am still in contact with some of my colleagues. You moved off the Ivybridge Estate, for whatever reason but have no say in what happens on the Ivybridge Estate now. Why not set up your own Residents Association and concentrate on the "NOW" and the future rather than the past which seems to be giving you sleepless nights.

Christopher Boucher ● 5601d

Have you ever had the feeling you've been cheated Brenda?

Ian Speed ● 5601d

The ICG have helped us Residents alot Regarding Tesco on London Rd they have ben Fantastic i bet Labour wouldnt off Helped.

Simon Anderson ● 5601d

James, you do not get it do and Phil with his abiding advise of allways take the high ground should know better.Using the actions of others as an excuse for immoral acts of your own is not something the ICG should even think of as eventually it leaves people feeling cheated just like you do about Labour.

Brenda Muston ● 5601d

Still waiting 4 my Reply Chris...

Simon Anderson ● 5601d

When one considers the amount of CCTV that we have to put up with, I am astounded that these fly tippers have not been caught on camera and taken to court. What is the point of all the expense of having these spy in the sky utilities if they do not do a good job.

Dawn Hardy ● 5601d

Why? would we boot out what is good for our community to bring in Labour who had 26 years and did bugger all for Brentford except ruin us.Vote ICG and keep the caring guys in.

Dawn Hardy ● 5601d

Indeed we are??

Dawn Hardy ● 5601d

So the Labour party is a sticker for accuracy on local election leaflets?  That is very honourable.Can we assume that the minor inaccuracies on the Labour material, for instance that you have forced Thames Water to spend £50m covering the storm tanks at Mogden when in fact they've not spent a penny and the storm tanks haven't been covered, will be recitified?Oh and the minor detail of the 100 police officers you are going to employ while cutting the council tax, when police officers aren't even employed by the council?Otherwise I don't think your track record really qualifies you to complain about anything the ICG or anybody else put on their leaflets, do you?

James Dash ● 5601d

Here we go then Steve, how's this for nitpicking? Issue 60 of Village News, carried the line "Who needs Politicians?" The headline in issue 59 was "Why we need community councillors" Either we need them or we don't. Simple as. It is irrelevant to suggest that because none of the ICG candidates are seaking a Parliamentary seat they are not politicians.

Christopher Boucher ● 5601d

If you are pointing the finger I suggest you have the guts to name names instead of reverting to the old (ICG) trick of innuendo. If you haven't the stomach or the proof to support your nasty hints then you should refrain from comment in this manner. No-one has ever accused the ICG, or anyone else for that matter, of fly tipping, in fact both myself and Cllr. Fisher reported the large dump on Twickenham Rd. the other week. I would agree that compared to other parts of the borough Isleworth isn't quite as bad, the point was that it is starting to get worse. I believe that the charges that have been imposed for removal of rubbish have been a contributory factor to this rise in incidents of dumping.

Vanessa Smith ● 5601d

Sure Steve, every person who has posted is attached to one side or the other, you only need Tory or Labour individuals who are clever enough to take advantage and the ICG could find themselves losing seats in the same way as Labour when the ICG booted them out. Phil ignores this at his peril.

Brenda Muston ● 5602d

Or that the ICG are dumping refuse in Isleworth ward? Actually I had someone else down as possibly being responsible for that, didn't it appear in the local newspaper very quickly after it had happened?

James Dash ● 5602d

Are we saying that Anne Keen feathers her own nest and worries about residents last ?

Ian Speed ● 5602d

Nice one!!

Dawn Hardy ● 5602d

Are you saying that Labour Councillors would give up their fee, better have a word with them first.

Dawn Hardy ● 5602d

LOL!One of the dwindling Labour disciple's makes a comment and who should jump straight in with his predicted response but Keens Southall apologist poodle Robin TaylorYou couldn't make it up!

Paul Fisher ● 5602d

LOL!Sharon makes a reference to ICG councillors "feathering their own nests" and who should turn up but £25k man Paul Fisher.You couldn't make it up!

Robin Taylor ● 5602d

"Fred, that last post didn't make a lot of sense, could you please elaborate?"Actually, Phil, I found that Brenda's last post made perfect sense.

Robin Taylor ● 5602d

"it produces a thread of 65 postings which shows that group is off track"I think you'd have to ascertain how many of the 65 posts agree that Cris is correct and how many think he is simply nit-picking something which in unimportant because none of the ICG candidates are seeking a parliamentary seat.

Steve Taylor ● 5602d

I see you are being spoon-fed again Sharon and isnt about time you had an opinion of your own rather then just agreeing with Sue and Vanessa all the time.Isleworth has always been relatively free of fly tipping compared to other parts of the Hounslow but I seem to recall that a present Labour councillors family was involved in dumping literally tons of it in the West of the Borough and were prosecuted for doing soCan we expect a labour leaflet shortly proudly proclaiming that you lot will now solve the problem as well as providing an extra 100 Police Officers and 250,000 new homes in this area and cutting Council Tax as well!!

Paul Fisher ● 5602d

Dawn must have a very different ICG to the ones we know in Isleworth, look at all the dumping thats being going on since they hiked the cost of bulky waste removal -- didn't someone on this board say it is now £30??  They are like any other politician, they feather their own nests first and worry about residents last.

Sharon Smith ● 5602d

Well sweetie it hasn't for the last 5 year's, I expect it to carry on looking out for us.

Dawn Hardy ● 5602d

My apologies Caroline another valuable ICG Councillor.

Dawn Hardy ● 5602d

Fred, that last post didn't make a lot of sense, could you please elaborate?

Paul Bray ● 5602d

Yes Dawn, the ICG has done exactrly what it promised in your case as they should, it is very very good.The ICG's Editor decides to put an controversial and incorrect description in his propaganda material, it produces a thread of 65 postings which shows that group is off track and could well be on a slippery slope, for from then on what will they not do that shows them in the same light as those they are opposing today and when will the good you are experiencing today evaporate.

Brenda Muston ● 5602d

Dawn..Dont forget Caroline Andrews..lol

Simon Anderson ● 5602d

I can only speak as I find, ICG have done marvels for the Syon Estate we have had our community centre refurbished through them, the kids have a basket ball area, we no longer have graffiti everywhere, why? because through ICG pride has come back into our area. Me and mine also friends will once again vote for Shirley Fisher,Jon Hardy why? because they care and most important they are prepared to listen to our community and do their utmost for us, whether their is a political affiliation or not they get the job done for us.

Dawn Hardy ● 5602d

So you do want to go the same way as Anne.

Brenda Muston ● 5603d

Brenda - did you not see mine and Paul's posts yesterday? Thanks Ian

Ian Speed ● 5603d

Whatever special pleadings you put forward Ian the reality is if you move into a political environment, sign up to become a political party, you accept the title of Councillor and receive money for becoming one, you are doing what Vanessa would call waddling. We have all seen what becomes of constantly saying black is white when we look at Anne Keen's denials of the obvious, do you really want the same to happen to the Community Group?

Brenda Muston ● 5603d

That's tosh.

Tony Wood ● 5604d

I espouse the views on the thread provided by James Dash , Steve Taylor and Paul Fisher. Residents/Community candidates all over Britain are often elected because of the despair voters have over the behaviour of major party politicians. They have to wear the mantle of politicians to change the system for the better.

Ian Speed ● 5604d

Hi PaulYes you are right the ICG was forced to register as a political party and whatever the hurt over this, even without that ruling, we were percieved to be political even when I was on the committee. Chris has shown that the term volunteer is a highly questionable term when mixed with people who receive payment for their services.Steve has given an absolutely fantastic discription of what the ICG should stand for. Cheap tricks should be avoided.

Brenda Muston ● 5604d

"The fuss, as you put it, is about attempting to deliberately mislead the electorate"Vanessa, I don't agree with you all of the time but your eagerness that the electorate should not be misled is admirable.  If this a position you have always taken?

James Dash ● 5604d

"I am sure you must remember that the Community Group had no choice but to register with the Electoral Commission as a political party otherwise we could not stand for election as councillors but to honest and in my opinion I don't really see what all the fuss is about".The fuss, as you put it, is about attempting to deliberately mislead the electorate, especially in view of one of the by-lines on one of your leaflets 'Who needs politicians?". You too are politicians whatever you try and say and to pretend otherwise is just not true. So the question is: Is you is, or is you ain't? You would be the first people to jump on anyone else who tried this stunt. You take part in the democratic process, you have elected members, therefore to describe yourselves and your organisation as anything other than political is a load of old sphericals.

Vanessa Smith ● 5604d

Hi BrendaI am sure you must remember that the Community Group had no choice but to register with the Electoral Commission as a political party otherwise we could not stand for election as councillors but to honest and in my opinion I don't really see what all the fuss is about.Regarding ICG leafleters being paid that is the first I have heard of it and we are lucky to have such a large and dedicated team who are quite willing to do this in their free time and completely and 100% unpaid

Paul Fisher ● 5604d

Interested in what you have to say Steve but why would a political party wish to desribe itself as something it is not. Surely what you have depicted is an excellent enough explaination to the voter without what many feel is a trick that any dodgy car salesman might use. You will see that the ICG lose credibillity fast if they continue to use cheap encouragements such as this. Councillors are paid very good expenses and some suspect that some of the ICG leafleters are paid.

Brenda Muston ● 5604d

A considered response Robin but in my view it stands or falls on an assumption that by entering into coalition with a larger group the ICG automatically adopts that group's political worldview.  My understanding of coalition is that it involves give and take.  I read its support for the cutting of funding to the HLS as an example of the ICG giving, and the Tory support for the empowerment motion as an example of the ICG taking.  This year the ICG made financing the voluntary sector a condition of its support for the Tory budget which the Tories did under protest and Labour opposed completely.I think it is a mistake to try to place a bland ideological interpretation on everything that happens in politics, if you do one has to conclude that Blair's support for George Bush's wars made Labour a right wing neocon party.

James Dash ● 5604d

"Robin would argue it was far right"Not true.But if you believe in the traditional political spectrum, they're clearly more right than left - otherwise why would five of their six councillors vote with the Tories (and against Labour) to axe funding to Hounslow Language Service?And, even leaving aside the details of his own controversial background, why would their most prominent member use far harsher rhetoric against the Labour Party (calling them, among much else, a "self-serving incestuous mob") than against the Tories?More generally, if a political grouping believes in keeping taxation low and cutting services, that tends to indicate a right wing fiscal agenda.

Robin Taylor ● 5604d

My understanding is simply that the ICG are there to improve the conditions for all who live within the Wards they serve. Much of their work is centred on empowering the community and 'self determination' rather than controlling the communities they serve. They are not there to assist the Nanny State as such. The fact that some ICG Cllrs are on the Executive is indeed a bonus as they are able to encourage others to share the empowerment philosophy and thus improve the lives of many, many thousands of people who don't live in the wards the  ICG serve. I don't believe any ICG Cllrs are standing for MP in this election so the 'political' question is completely irrelevant and of no interest to anyone other than those attempting to smear the ICG. This thread is a total waste of time IMHO but it made interesting reading because it is yet again indicative of just how low some of the ICG's opponents are prepared to go. Instead of concentrating on the real issues which affect the Borough they are content to nit-pick the slant of an ICG leaflet. Pathetic I'd say

Steve Taylor ● 5604d

ChrisYou still haven't answered my Question but u ave a cheek to have a go at Ian.Why was it Ok for me to be involved in the R.A on Ivybridge between 03-05 when i did not live on Ivybridge but i am not allowed to be involved Now?

Simon Anderson ● 5604d

Ian can answer for himself but if I were asked this question I would respond with a question of my own, in other words what constitutes a political party?  To me a political party would need to have a common ideology, a formal position on the big issues of the day and an identifiable location on the political spectrum.There is little doubt that the ICG is registered as a political party, I believe that to be a condition of standing for election, but leaving the usual propaganda and spin to one side just for a moment would you say, just judging by their contributions on this forum, that the ICG is an organisation belonging to the political left or right, or that it has a formal position on issues such as economics, health, employment or international policy?Robin would argue it was far right and Sue/Sharon would continue to point out that it was in coalition with the Tories and therefore Tory, and yet there would seem to be more of a Green/Liberal Democrat ethic from much of what I read.So no, I cannot place the ICG on the political spectrum and I see no ideological or policy basis beyond the broad theme of expanding civic power, so I would not conider the ICG to be a political party in the normally understood sense of the term.  Ian may of course disagree entirely.

James Dash ● 5604d

Ian, with respect, I can and will bring up areas where the ICG are failing the Isleworth public. However, as you appear to be the election agent for the ICG can you confirm or deny that the ICG is a political party? Not too difficult I hope. A yes or no would suffice.

Christopher Boucher ● 5604d

Might it be that your vocabulary and argument only extend to nothing Ian?

Brenda Muston ● 5605d

Vanessa- what you say sounds about right to me ..Chris - suggest you get away from your dictionary and identify if you can any actual issues where the ICG are failing the Isleworth publicSue - it is still not acceptable for Alan Keen to have claimed as if he had to run his own home - I don't care what the fees office says - any decent person would challenge this not go along with it Bernadette - absolutely ...

Ian Speed ● 5606d

Ps...if u think u could get me in Court for saying "Liar" u must be out off your mind, If that was the Case Nick Clegg would be in court for slander calling Tories and Labour "Corrupt"

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

Chris...U r a Hypocrite u stated i cant be involved in issues regarding Ivybridge as i don't live on the estate but you was happy for me to be involved in 2003 and 2004 when i didn't live on Ivybridge are you saying you are not a Hypocrite??Banter..U said things about me i didnt threaten Solocitors did I, you accussed me of throwing my toys out off my Pram but isnt that what you are doing Now?

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

Light banter is fine, accusations of being a liar goes beyond that.

Christopher Boucher ● 5606d

Here Here Steve!!

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

"but will simply pass it on to my solicitor, perhaps you should engage one yourself"  My God your lot are pathetic. Lighten up for heavens sake! A bit of light banter doesn't do any harm does it? Unless some raw nerves are hit?

Steve Taylor ● 5606d

Fred doubted Phil's trustworthiness and felt he could not support him. As for Phil and Pat Cole as very sad event brought them together, not very auspicious that and I think justifies Fred's view, Sue.

Brenda Muston ● 5606d

Chris,I will try once again, hopefully you will understand!!In 2003 i left Ivybridge BUT you and the rest off NITA asked me back onto the R.A as an Associated Member even though i did NOT live on Ivybridge and you allowed me to have a Office opened and run it and go to Resident Meetings at Mogden on Behalf off NITA not to mention vote for me to be secretary at the AGM and supported me at the meeting when certain individuals was asking for my Removal, now you are saying as i Don't live on the estate its nothing to do with me so you are a hypocrite are you not?Secondly start a slander case against me i have plenty off people who will write statements to support what i have stated about you and I've said nothing that is not True!!Bring it on.....

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

Simon,Perhaps I should try once again, to explain this as simply as possible to you. It may not work of course. You MAY have lived on the Ivybridge estate some years ago but you do NOT live there now. Be very careful about calling me a liar, especially in forums like this, there are slander and liable laws which I am quite prepared to invoke should you carry on with your ludicrous tirade. I will not respond to another personal attack on me by yourself, but will simply pass it on to my solicitor, perhaps you should engage one yourself

Christopher Boucher ● 5606d

I have NOT supported different Political Groups, if u like to know when i turned 18 in 89 i voted Labour in my First Vote,i then moved to London and i voted Ann Keen MP as i was on NITA but then i was Fed up with your party like millions all over the country so i voted ICG and it was because the Majority of Isleworth was Voting them which told me they must be good because if they were as Rubbish as u make out they are then 4yrs ago you would off Beaten them and be a Cllr Now so it tells me what local people (who ave herd off u) think off you and your Party.When i emailed Ruth Cadbury it was because i was angry with what happened on Ivybridge but i got it wrong because she sent my Email on to Phil and Phil and I have discussed this so you can not cause any issues between Phil, the ICG and Me that's why many off the Local ICG Cllrs were at my Wedding Last Year.U say i don't live on Ivybridge so i have NO say in any organisation on the estate...Ohhhh Chris it was so Different bck in 03/04 when i moved off the estate but you all asked me back as a Cooperated Member (probably because i was showing Loyalty to Ann Keen) and you strongly disagreed them Throwing me off the committee it was ok for me to be involved then wasn't it Chris? But because i booed you 4yrs ago because u stormed off the stage on election night in a Bad Mood (u say i throw my toys out the pram..) without Shaking the Hands off the Winners (Bad looser) and I've continued to criticize the Labour Party and Ann keen its a Different matter now Hey Chris....Bottom line is this if u vote Labour u get Rewarded but if you don't well!!Chris you are a Hypocrite and a Liar and that's why you didn't win 4yrs ago and you wont win if you stand again and if you did you probably wouldn't turn up to do surgeries or turn up smelling off drink like the times you have visited residents (as a member of the Residents Association)to help them with problems and you have smelt off drink even a loyal Labour confirmed this to me.So tell Me Chris are you saying the member of Public can not Change their minds to whom they support?

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

Simon. Please get a grip. In regards to your first question, that is not what I was saying. What I did say was that you have supported many different political parties over the years and have consistently thrown your toys out of the pram. Regarding your second question I don't really understand your rambling comments, but, hey ho, few of us on this forum do. It is of course absolutely true that Ivybridge is nothing to do with you, regardless of your past involvement as a resident. It matters not a whit whether you are a supporter of Ann, Ghengis Khan or Mao Tse Tung, unless you actually live on Ivybridge you have no say in the running of any organisation on the estate.

Christopher Boucher ● 5606d

Two Questions for you Chris:1. you say "My Feeble Attempt to get in with the Labour Group" are you saying any person who voted the ICG who wanted to become a Labour Supporter isn't allowed?2. You say Ivybridge is nothing to do with me as i don't live on there, but it was Good enough in 2003/04 when i was on NITA with you running the Office when i didn't live on Ivybridge not to mention when they did a Vote to get rid off me you stood up for me can you tell me if i was a Ann Ken Supporter still would it be ok for me to get involved in Ivybridge and be a Member of the Committee again??

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

Chris Chris Chris...I cant see how you got voted into any position on the URA because half the Time you don't turn up to meetings the other Half you turn up smelling off Drink!!I support those i think will serve the Locals correctly and i am sorry to say that is NOT the Labour Group nor have i tried to become a friend of the Labour party, yes i emailed Ruth Cadbury once about Phil Andrews and she then forwarded the email to Phil, i wasn't angry because it showed me that the Labour party can't even be trusted when it comes to receiving private emails from Local Residents and they are Liars when it comes to attacking Phil then showing him support by Sending my email to them.Back to the URA, You have been treasure for nearly a year but you still haven't sorted out the Bank account details which your good friend still has and you see alot off her on HFTRA how can the URA raise money for the Estate that you say you so care about if they don't have a bank account?I don't appose the ICG you want to know where i stand well i tell you I am Friends with the ICG Cllrs in my Personal Life, But i don't agree on some off the things they have done, as to Me and Ivytag etc I've told Phil to his face what i think on that issue.I feel Isleworth needs great Cllrs like Paul Fisher and ive told all i no in Isleworth to vote ICG, as i have for Syon where my Wife and I will be supporting.As to MP look at my windows to see who i will be supporting, its Andrew Dakers.As to me not being my Type are you suggesting something?I have a life thanks a good life shame you haven't because if you did Residents would off voted for you to be Cllr 4yrs ago.As to making my mind up i feel you need to do that because havent you been working with Phil where the URA is concerned!!

Simon Anderson ● 5606d

  No James,I certainly was not implying that,who people vote for is entirely there own choice,and rightly so.What I do object to are some of the ICG tactics,take for example the thread started by Councillor Andrews about a sick young lady in which he inferred that Ann Keen may in some way be responsible for the girls kidnap. The easiest way to find the thread is to search "Ann Keen-kidnap" please read it all and tell us your views.Then there is a more recent thread,"Ann Keen in another national newspaper report",the thread goes wildly off topic (mostly down to me...sorry folks) again have a read and tell us your views please.

Tony Wood ● 5606d

Simon,Simon,Simon. Your interest in Ivybridge is fascinating and I amflattered that you are taking such an interest in my role as treasurer of URA, which frankly, has nothing to do with you. I am sure that were I to post a message to rescue endangered woodlice you would bring up the URA. Have you yet decided who you support politically? Everyone on here seems to be your "mate". Your advocacy/opposition of the ICG and the Tories has been noted. as well as your feeble attempts to become a friend of the Labour Party. You really must get a life. By the way, thanks for the "Wink Wink" but you're really not my type.

Christopher Boucher ● 5606d

Andrews claims that he doesn't send leaflets to homes in brentford. I keep getting two or three everytime they release their community group "Tory Lackey party" nonsense.But then he IS economical with the truth and always was.

Conal Stewart ● 5606d

Sophistry Ian? Touched a nerve have we? Sorry to be pedantic but again,my dictionary definition of sophistry is "a method of argument that is seemingly plausible, though actually invalid and misleading" The elected members of the ICG are by definition politicians, the ICG is a registered political party, fact. Maybe the leaflet in question is "time wasting sophistry" especially when the politicians are asking who needs them?!

Christopher Boucher ● 5606d

Ian, I think the point being made is: Most people not that bothered about elections would not even think about the difference. They may not have a very high opinion of politicians generally given the last year's antics, so may think - great these people are different - when they most certainly are not.It is about presenting something as if it were an alternative to politics as they understand it. It is a clever use of language but is it really honest?  It's kidology. Lots of groups are voluntary, Samaritans, Victim Support etc., they do not put up candidates in elections though. A group that takes part in the democratic process and has registered as a political party therefore IS a political party just as all the others are, and to try and pretend otherwise is really disingenuous to say the very least. As they say if it waddles like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it is a duck.

Vanessa Smith ● 5606d

Seems to me the problems with the builders were of their own making and should have been sorted out long before they ever were.  In any event, my daughter (who lives around the corner from Mrs Keen) also undertook major works in her small terraced home (loft conversion plus kitchen extension) and still had to live with 2 young children whilst the works were undertaken. Not many people have the luxury of a second home paid for by the public to retreat to just because they have issues with their builders!  If they had had to pay for it themselves I am sure all issues with builders would have been sorted out very quickly.  Just what were the exceptional circumstances anyway?  Didn't like the work, didn't like the bill, or hadn't got the proper planning permission?How about the life insurance policy the public have paid for for them?  I suppose that was ok as well.Fine everything they did was legal BUT was it right?  I don't think so.  To live such a short distance from Parliament and claim for a second home to be closer to work is plain ridiculous.

Bernadette Paul ● 5606d

It's not true to say the Keens lied about their homes for profit, they were told TWICE by the fees office that what they were doing was okay because of the exceptional circumstances with the builders, and I see the ICG no longer have the support of Fred & Brenda Muston, Fred was one of their Councillors, and how about Pat Cole - has Phil made up with her yet?

Councillor Sue Sampson ● 5606d

Brenda , this is a nothing thread and Chris should be addressing bread and butter issues in the Isleworth area. Phil has not mentioned anything of the sort to me.

Ian Speed ● 5606d

Seems to me that Phil has probably put you up to destroy this thread Ian. Chris has brought forward a wholly legit case against the Community group who are pretending to be something they are not in order it; seems to gain votes and possibly donations for their cause. Stick to the thread Ian.

Brenda Muston ● 5606d

Even if the ICG meet the technical definition of politicians - what exactly is the point , apart from time-wasting sophistry?

Ian Speed ● 5607d

Anne Keen may work full time on her MP's work , I do not deny that . The parallel payment to Phil and Paul's allowances is her MP's salary. However, the 2nd home expenses are in addition to that. And furthermore, I do not see why Phil and Paul should not post on these forums in their leisure time.

Ian Speed ● 5607d

"The ICG councillors have merely claimed the council allowances to which they are entitled ,"My reply;  Ann Keen has merely claimed the MP expenses to which she was entitled! "and as I said in almost every instance when they have served on the Exec they have worked virtually full time on council business."My reply; Ann works full time on MP business and Ministerial business, but the difference is she has no time left to spam the forums like Phil & Paul!!

Councillor Sue Sampson ● 5607d

Extract already posted on other thread ( preceded by Sue Sampson failing to give a straight answer to a question about Jacqui Smith or any other question for that matter)''The key difference between Jacqui Smith and the ICG is that Smith lied on her claim about her main home , and clocked up huge sums in police costs at her sister's house just so that she could continue to claim the allowance ( this would not have been necessary if she had had a grace and favour apartment, but such an apartment would have prevented her claiming for her large midlands home).  The ICG councillors have merely claimed the council allowances to which they are entitled , and as I said in almost every instance when they have served on the Exec they have worked virtually full time on council business. Are there any Labour councillors who have not claimed their full allowance ? ''

Ian Speed ● 5607d

What a pathetic issue to raise - is this the only thing that exercises Chris Boucher?

Ian Speed ● 5607d

Tony, are you suggesting that people who join the ICG are made to do so under duress?  This is just getting madder and madder, if the ICG bothers you so much why don't you go out and deliver some leaflets or knock up a few doors?  You won't stop them winning by sitting behind your keyboard and their popularity obviously causes you a great deal of distress.

James Dash ● 5607d

Thought so Steve.

Tony Wood ● 5607d

"Are you telling me that members join it voluntarily?"I have no idea Tony

Steve Taylor ● 5607d

Are you telling me that members join it voluntarily?

Tony Wood ● 5607d

Aah - but the ICG is voluntary so they don't count do they?

Steve Taylor ● 5607d

To ICG could be to "Brown envelope".

Tony Wood ● 5607d

To ICG could be to "Brown envelope".

Tony Wood ● 5607d

"I love the verb to "trouser", never heard it before" yes - I guess Labourites  'trouser', Lib Dems 'pocket' and Tories 'bank'

Steve Taylor ● 5607d

I love the verb to "trouser", never heard it before but it's the perfect opposite of "voluntary",and so applicable.Thanks :0)

Tony Wood ● 5607d

I read somewhere the ICG councillors trouser £25,000. Hardly "voluntary" is it?

Sharon Smith ● 5607d

The ICG, like my group the Hounslow Independent Alliance, is registered as a political party with the Electoral Commission. Leaflet distributors and canvassars who are unpaid are volunteers, whether in a major or minor political party.

John Connelly ● 5607d

well u Live in Isleworth but poke your Nose into other areas so must take after you.Yes i am obsessed with Ivybridge as ive Lived there for 7yrs and worked on 2 Resident groups and achieved many things over there and i care about the people living on the estate so if u want to Criticize me 4 that Fine.

Simon Anderson ● 5607d

Stick to the subject of the thread. You are obsessed with bloody Ivybridge and don't even live there - why don't you mind your own business? About spending time on Forums - the same criticisms could be made about your ICG patrons.

Vanessa Smith ● 5607d

Chris Boucher the treasurer of the United Resident Association who since taking the post nearly a Year ago still hasn't set up a Bank account for the resident association Great treasurer he makes if only he spent as much time to get it sorted then on here attacking the ICG...Wink Wink

Simon Anderson ● 5607d

Well you have the advantage over me as I haven't seen the leaflet.  If it says that elected officials are volunteers then in this day and age that is clearly wrong.  If it says leafleters and campaign workers are volunteers then I can't see what the issue is.  I assume Hounslow Council doesn't pay ICG campaign workers or for leaflets to be printed but again maybe I misunderstand how these things work.It is good that Christopher is such a stickler for accuracy and honest reporting on election campaign leaflets.  Maybe he should put himself forward for election?

James Dash ● 5607d

Er, I think the point is not the people distributing leaflets but the actual elected representatives and candidates who represent themselves as volunteers.

Bernadette Paul ● 5607d

If the people involved in leafletting and canvassing aren't being paid then presumably they are volunteers, are they not? So why is the ICG wrong to call them volunteers?

James Dash ● 5607d

Hear, hear, Chris. Been saying the same for years, it is disingenuous to say the least to give the impression that an organisation is somehow set apart form the other political parties and that their volunteers are different. No-one involved in leafletting or canvassing for a specific party is paid, never have been. If you are involved in the political process as a candidate then subsequently elected, you are a politician - simples.

Vanessa Smith ● 5607d

"All political parties have volunteers who deliver leaflets etc,"It seems Sue Sampson couldn't find any 'volunteers' to deliver her leaflets over the weekend. If only Robin would venture out of his closet - he could have helped the all but dead party

Steve Taylor ● 5607d