Forum Topic

Tories take B & I

Neil Chippendale ● 5840d40 Comments

No I didn't - I quoted what a journalist had said. Can't you get your facts right just for once, do not put words in my mouth.

Vanessa Smith ● 5831d

RobinSurely you have to admit that AK was an issue in the election. I know a number of Labour supporters who would not vote for her, this includes 4 who had tried to get interviews with her and who were told by her office that they would be in touch with a time. One person tried arranging an interview on 4 occasions. Each time they were told they would be contacted. She lost because she forgot she was also a local MP as well as a Health Minister. Too lose by less then 2000 is an achievement and I believe another, local candidate, would have won.

Neil Chippendale ● 5836d

Since Vanessa today compared David Cameron's face to a buttock, I hardly think she is in a position to complain about nasty remarks. And one does wonder whether Vanessa's own picture in the Chronicle was enough to provoke Scarlett Johansson to smash her mirror in frustration....

Ian Speed ● 5836d

"The Mogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) is a non political group of residents..."Thank you Robin for going through your archives to prove conclusively that MRAG is a non political organisation. Your support in Hounslow and Richmond is not required but we thank you for your interest. 

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

"The Mogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) is a non political group of residents..."Yes, as an example of MRAG's political neutrality, here is a posting made, in 2008, by MRAG spokesperson Steve Taylor (in which he backed up remarks previously made by the fascistic AMJA):- ---------------I think that at one time people saw Vanessa's postings as simply coming from a confused and bitter person cast out into the wilderness.  Then they started to become quite funny and entertaining and possibly even compassionate and caring when she realised she no longer had to impress any political masters. Recently the meaningless 'one-liners' posted all over the place without foundation would  lead many to believe that she has simply lost the plot. Many, it seems, have decided to humour her. I believe it is simply better to leave her to fester on what could have been if she had listened to the people she purported to serve. I think you once said 'wait, watch and be amazed'  Well I guess the amazement has taken its toll.This thread is indeed a beautiful example of the confusion she suffers. i.e Andrew starts a perfectly reasonable and debatable thread. Vanessa responds reasonably coherently for a change. Andrew points out certain hypocrisy. Vanessa then snaps and advises that Andrew is  "just a little right wing cabal whose opinions are of no interest to me" It begs the question that if his opinions are of no interest; why show any interest by responding?On the question of Mogden - I had a glance through the 2003 thread and am quite amazed by the rubbish posted by Sheerins and Vanessa Smith. I can categorically state that the first Hounslow Councillors since 1998 to ever take an interest in residents' concerns  were Cllrs Phil Andrews and Fred Muston. They were backed shortly afterwards by Richmond Cllr Dr Trevor Whittall. (Lib Dem). As Lead CFA Member in the Group Litigation there is no evidence that Vanessa Smith ever attended a meeting at Mogden or took any interest in the matter. There is no evidence of any correspondence she has had on the issue with Thames Water or anyone else. The first Hounslow Labour Cllr to take any interest and to become actively involved with residents was in  2002, Cllr Mike Carmen R.I.P. If anything the 2003 thread shows clearly that in taking cheap political shots at the ICG by making the ridiculous and unsubstantiated claims that Mogden had improved, not only undermined the Council's Statutory Nuisance case but it also undermined residents and demonstrated total ignorance. It is not surprising that Sheerins has disappeared and Vanessa Smith  is now lost in the wilderness. The fact is that the ICG, by listening to residents and finding out the facts for themselves,  instigated the statutory nuisance case and the judge found very clearly that conditions had deteriorated over the years and Thames Water had run roughshod over the last administration simply because no Labour Councillor was bothered to hold them accountable. Those labour Cllrs who ignored the problems and laughed off residents' concerns will never be forgiven by this community.I leave you now to continue with the interesting debate on the "left-wing"  scumbags from the anti war brigade who hurled abuse at our troops.---------------The remarks directed at former Labour Councillor Vanessa Smith are thoroughly nasty (IMHO).

Robin Taylor ● 5836d

Well, what a surprise. Steve Taylor disagrees with my view that his organisation is politically biased.

Robin Taylor ● 5836d

Well, what a surprise. Steve Taylor disagrees with my view that his organisation is politically biased."Your seething pent up anger will make you ill."Oh, I'm perfectly cool about this. I've simply stated my sincere opinion.

Robin Taylor ● 5836d

Thank you Steve.  Could I also please just add to this that I would happy to meet any of the new councillors should they feel I might have any advice or experience that might prove helpful to them in their dealings with Thames Water.

Phil Andrews ● 5836d

The Mogden Residents Action Group (MRAG) is a non political group of residents from Richmond and Hounslow Boroughs with only one agenda. That is to improve the environment for ALL residents of Hounslow and Richmond Boroughs by holding Thames Water accountable and fully responsible for its mismanagement of Mogden. The MRAG Committee will be inviting all newly elected Cllrs in both Boroughs, whose constituents are affected by the Mogden operation, to join the campaign to improve the local environment and the lives for all who live in, work in, or visit the area. Quarterly Residents Liaison Meetings with Thames Water have previously been successfully chaired by Hounslow's Lead Members for Environment namely, Cllr Ruth Cadbury, Cllr Barbara Reid as well as the late Cllr Mike Carmen.  Twickenham MP, Dr Vince Cable,  has also chaired meetings on a number of occasions. MRAG will be inviting all local Councillors to attend these quarterly liaison meetings and to alternate chairing between the new Lead Member for Environment, Isleworth Cllrs and BCI's  newly elected MP, Mary Macleod. Any Councillor or interested party who wishes to know more about the allegations of mismanagement of Mogden over the last decade, and would like to sight transcripts of the High Court evidence as given during the current litigation trial, should email mrag27@aol.com

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

I agree with Bernardette - someone like Ruth Cadbury would easily have taken 1,000 votes off Andrew Dakers in  a squeeze despite his talents , and at least 500 off Macleod , which would have been enough - the same may well go for Mcnulty in Harrow too - a handful more cases like this would have seen the Tories get less than 300 seats nationally and made it far more difficult for them to form a minority government. Anne Keen - helping to put the Tories in power through her own hubris...

Ian Speed ● 5836d

"These are just my opinions, it's up to the new councillors to decide how to represent Isleworth people."And its fortunate that your opinions count for nowt in BC&I and its fortunate that Cllrs take an oath of office and are not as silly, childish and vindictive as you Robin. You really need to grow up and get some help. Your seething pent up anger will make you ill.

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

On another matter, I think the new Labour councillors for Isleworth should refuse to cooperate with the Mogden Residents Action Group until such time as MRAG replaces its spokesperson with someone who is more politically neutral, and until such time as ex-councillor Andrews ceases to be on its committee.We all know MRAG was co-founded by Phil Andrews as a front group for his ICG (and, indeed, one of its first actions was to attack the two incumbent Labour councillor back in 2001/2).Steve Taylor is far too political, and his remark that Labour's education policy is "immigration, immigration, immigration" was unbecoming of someone who purports to represent a residents' organisation. In the eyes of many people, he has been both threatening and abusive in his tone towards people, both here on TW8 and on W4.I suspect the Labour councillors will try to work with MRAG, but even if they are able to deliver on the issue of Mogden they will always ultimately have MRAG working against them because it is a systemically biased organisation.These are just my opinions, it's up to the new councillors to decide how to represent Isleworth people.

Robin Taylor ● 5836d

"I've got my reasons ;-)"Fair enough Sharon - but give us a clue. Were the other two Tory, ICG, Green,or.....??  ;-)

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

I've got my reasons ;-)

Sharon Smith ● 5836d

"but I only voted for one of the Labour candidates in the local."Now I'm quite curious, Sharon. I appreciate why you voted AK in the General but how come you only voted one Labour candidate in the local?

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

Robin's right.  I voted Ann Keen in the general because of her work for the NHS, but I only voted for one of the Labour candidates in the local.  Bernadette Paul should try to understand people have their own point of view

Sharon Smith ● 5836d

"I doubt if the B&I Labour Party will be too concerned with what you think of their candidates."Precisely why Labour lost the GE. They don't care what the electorate wants or thinks and anyone who dares ask a question too many is a biggot

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

You pathetic pillock! 

Bernadette Paul ● 5836d

Bernadette,To reiterate: if my calculuations are correct, the Tories out-polled Labour in the local elections in the ten wards (aggregated) that make up the Brentford & Isleworth constituency.Therefore, what happened on Thursday night was a vote on party lines and not a vote for or against a personality.  This is a fact, and you throwing a tantrum will not change it.P.S.:- You have expressed some quite unorthodox views on certain issues (e.g. race relations) and for this reason I doubt if the B&I Labour Party will be too concerned with what you think of their candidates.

Robin Taylor ● 5836d

"Sorry, Bernadette, but it's simply not borne out by the figures."The figures prove conclusively that Hounslow is entrenched with Labour supporters. After 30 years of a Labour Council the Tories couldn't even manage 4 years without forming a coalition and now they are out again. Well and truely. Many Labour supporters like Bernadette and Vanessa didn't want to vote for AK but they decided to anyway because they are staunch Labour supporters and one can only respect their views and tenacity. The figures prove conclusively that had Keen paid back some expenses and shown some remorse, many, many people would not have voted for Mary or Andrew. Ann Keen was ousted due to her expenses scandal and her absenteeism. End of.

Steve Taylor ● 5836d

Oh for God's sake give it up!  You cannot argue that all those involved in the expenses scandals did not lose their seats as a result.  For weeks before the election there were enough postings even on this forum (where only a very few people ever post) to give you a clue as to how people felt.  It was arrogant in the extreme to leave her in situ and we have now all paid the price.  I have no doubt 2000 extra votes could have been found if she had shown a bit of humility or remorse instead of banging on about have she only claimed what she was allowed.  With daft f....wits like you defending her stance it's clear to me that labour will stay in the wilderness for the foreseeable future.

Bernadette Paul ● 5836d

"she and the local labour party are to blame for us now having a Tory MP and that is the truth whether you like it or not."Sorry, Bernadette, but it's simply not borne out by the figures.

Robin Taylor ● 5836d

Robin I do not understand your ridiculous denial of the situation re AK.  The only MP involved in the expenses scandal who as far as I am aware was re-elected was Hazel Blears and that may well be because a) she had a huge majority anyway; b) she rushed out almost immediately brandishing a cheque for £13,000 and c) presumably she was a half decent constituency mp in the first place.Tony McNulty went, Jackie Smith went others went and of course Ann Keen went - all of them I would suggest because of the expenses and I believe it was arrogant of all of them to expect to be re-elected.  Had all of those tarnished stood down I have no doubt the election would have been even closer even though labour may still not have won.Ann Keen did none of the above.  I personally know at least half a dozen previous labour voters who could not bring themselves to put a X beside her name - however I was not one of them.  Nevertheless, she and the local labour party are to blame for us now having a Tory MP and that is the truth whether you like it or not.

Bernadette Paul ● 5837d

"But that's a story for another day."Indeed, but the story at the moment is that we can rejoice the fact that 66.4% of those who voted didn't vote for Ann Keen

Steve Taylor ● 5837d

" can't say I came across much evidence of "a good fight""Well, Tim, Ann put up a very energised fight, but it was confined mostly to the core Labour areas - e.g. the Ivybridge estate, Hounslow Central (where Cllr Lily Bath informs me that Ann had an extemely positive response), Hounslow Heath (she was practically camped out at the Gurdwara in Martindale Road) and others. The strategy was to try and increase the turnout, through personal contact, in areas with large concentrations of social housing or minority groups. The result suggests that she probably did carry all of the core areas easily. She just didn't do quite well enough in the more "middle England" areas of the constituency."but saw no evidence in the press of other actual engagement with the constituency"Yes, it didn't come through in the local Times, but that newspaper has always taken an unfavourable attitude towards the Labour Party. One of their reporters claimed Ann was not contactable (although it was him who cancelled a meeting with her). I have heard that after the Times article about her giving up on the constituency, she drove down to their office and demanded that the reporter got in the car so he could accompany her on some campaigning. If that it is true, then it speaks volumes that they chose not to run a story about it."A family member was  favourably canvassed on the doorstep by one of the  Labour council candidates and when he said he wouldn't vote for Ann Keen, the response was "I don't blame you.""Yes, there was some treachery. All I can say is that there are certain Labour councillors that I would not p*** on if they were on fire, and this is a sentiment shared by some others. However, none of these personal issues made a difference of 2,000 votes, and in fact in the Hounslow area it was clear that there was a positive personal vote for Ann Keen (the expenses issue not withstanding). One elderly elector even told me "I love Ann Keen", and that is not an attitude that a new candidate could have engendered. As Labour were always likely to lose B&I this time, it's probably just as well that the incumbent MP contested it. Any new candidate can now start to challenge Mary Macleod with a clean slate. But that's a story for another day. It's just fantastic to see Alan back, as well as some excellent Labour councillors (Lily Bath, Dave Hughes, Sue Sampson and Steve Curran among them).

Robin Taylor ● 5837d

I can't say I came across much evidence of "a good fight" and"On the Campaign Trail" athttp://annkeen.co.uk/photos/still says it is coming soon.........I saw the Chiswick hustings and had some leaflets through the door but saw no evidence in the press of other actual engagement with the constituency. A family member was  favourably canvassed on the doorstep by one of the  Labour council candidates and when he said he wouldn't vote for Ann Keen, the response was "I don't blame you."

Tim Henderson ● 5837d

Doesn't the Labour Party receive money from a Non Dom who is a Dragon on Dragons Den?

Simon Anderson ● 5837d

"Looking at the figures, it is genuinely difficult to find any clear evidence that Ann Keen's alleged personal unpopularity cost her a significant number of votes.She put up a good fight, but in the end the Ashcroft funding was simply too much. The best thing the party can now do is move on." Robbie - you are right in one respect. Ann put up a good fight,  but there is little doubt in my mind that she lost many votes purely because of her expenses scandals. It seems to me that LBH is inherently a Labour culture and the local elections proved that. Do you not for one moment  believe that, had Ann Keen stood down, Labour may just have swung the vote in the GE?

Steve Taylor ● 5837d

As your post refers to me, perhaps I can point out an essential fact about the election in Brentford & Isleworth: the Conservatives polled more votes than Labour across the constituency in the local elections, as well as in the parliamentary election. This fact suggests that a different Labour candidate would not have held off the challenge from Mary Macleod.It is also worth noting that the swing against Ann Keen - 5.96% - was pretty much in line with the national swing (5.15%) and was less than the average swing which took place in the Ashcroft-funded Tory target seats (7.5%). Each of these three swings would have given the seat to the Conservatives.Incidentally, in the Hounslow end of the constituency, the expenses issue did not come up on the doorstep at all. (I cannot speak about the rest of the seat, as I spent all of my time in Hounslow).Looking at the figures, it is genuinely difficult to find any clear evidence that Ann Keen's alleged personal unpopularity cost her a significant number of votes.She put up a good fight, but in the end the Ashcroft funding was simply too much. The best thing the party can now do is move on.

Robin Taylor ● 5837d

"Reminds me of those 1950's Ealing style films."Spot on Neil.  Exactly what I said to my wife when the megaphone interrupted our dinner!! :-)  I had visions of the Monty Python crew

Steve Taylor ● 5839d

Old style politics. That what's happened years ago with people touring the streets with a megaphone on a car. Reminds me of those 1950's Ealing style films.

Neil Chippendale ● 5839d

Indeed, a strange one that !.  Here in Kew Bridge (calling where I live that as it's one of Andrew's pet hates when I/businesses don't use their Brentford postal address) the Lib Dem car parked at the entrance to our development on an hourly basis in the evening.  Presumably it was more aimed at the local/ward elections in an attempt to get Andrew's colleagues elected.  Maybe it will have worked but the 'tactics' of the local Lib Dems in basically trying to bully people to vote by harrassing them by post, by phone and by car megaphone didn't go down well with me.

Adam Beamish ● 5839d

Good bye to Bad Rubbish!!

Simon Anderson ● 5839d

"developments with megaphones every hour or so on election day itself."Yeah but Labour too were driving around with megaphones late into the evening saying "vote Labour - vote for Council Tax freeze"  Duh!

Steve Taylor ● 5839d

Must say I'm pleased how poorly the Lib Dems did, both at national level and how even at local level Andrew only increased his share of the vote by 0.5%, nothing personal but as I've said on other posts I almost felt locally the Lib Dems were running a campaign based upon the principles of harrassment - an extraordinary amount of postal mailshots/junk, trying to get concierges at large developments to distribute more junk for them, and parking vehicles outside the same developments with megaphones every hour or so on election day itself.An utter waste of natural resources also, not impressed at all with Andrew and the Lib Dem team :-(

Adam Beamish ● 5839d

It's quite simple, Mrs Keen alienated too many socialist minded locals.Saying one thing to a local meeting and then sliding off to the commons to vote in the opposite way,Putting her ministerial ambitions above principals and duty to her constituents.Holding contempt for too many of the local electorate.And then.the expenses. All take but no morales.People simply don't like that.  She had plenty of time to put matters right. After all the 'Mr& Mrs Expenses' was coined over a year before the rest of the scandals emerged. But no, they carried on, unrepentant.The real failing is within the local party. They really ought to have reigned her in and read the riot act. Local rumour is one or two close officials have done rather well out of her Health ministry position and were thus too close.Lesson learned? Let's hope so and that a decent candidate is selected next time - which could be very soon.

Michael Brandt ● 5839d

Looking at the Majority, less than 2000, I have to agree that labour made a big mistake keeping her on. she became one of the faces of the expenses saga.Saying that Alan Kean had a swing to him against the Tories.

Neil Chippendale ● 5840d

She stayed on to fight the seat because she's greedy and wanted to milk her own little cash cow for as long as she could.  No doubt she’ll now apply for the maximum pay off allowable under the rules and then sell her half million pound tax payer funded central London flat and upgrade from the Brentford town house she’s never lived in to a detached executive house out in the suburbs.

Lorne Gifford ● 5840d

Hopefully the Red Red Robin will go bob bob bobbin' back to Southall!

James de Vivenot ● 5840d

Well I just hope the local labour party activists including Robin Taylor are happy now.  As predicted by everyone with a brain Ann Keen has lost the seat and whats worse, lost to a Tory!  I backed down and voted for her in the certain knowledge she would lose but in the vain hope that there would be enough people like me that would also back down and support Gordon Brown.  Sadly I have been proven right and my hopes were dashed.It's all water under the bridge now but I would still like to know why Ann Keen was left in place to gift this seat to the Tories?  Did labour not want to win this election?  If she had any sort of loyalty to the party she represented she would have stood down in any event.  She did not stand down and the local party did NOT deselect hence this seat was gifted to David Cameron.  Well Done!

Bernadette Paul ● 5840d