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Dismayed Lib Dem voters...

Dismayed Lib Dem voters... where do we go from here?On and off I've been a Lib Dem member for 10 years.  Now I am not.  In every election I have voted Lib Dem bar voting for Brian Paddick or Simon Hughes in the mayoral elections (both being simply awful choices I couldn't bring myself to support). It's nothing that our local Lib Dems have done; I'd count Andrew Dakers as being one of the most principled people I have ever met. No, this is about where Laws and Clegg have led voters a merry dance and corrupted the founding principles of the party and the party constitution.  Orange book liberals have no natural place in the party and ought to have been booted out the moment that document was made public.  Just like Labour was hijacked by 'tories in all but name' in the mid 1990s, now so too has the party in which I once had faith. There's nothing remotely liberal about what Clegg and Laws have done.  There's nothing remotely principled or democratic about assisting a party like the Tories to govern. I agreed with Nick on many things, but on the matter of coalition with ANYONE no I don't agree with Nick. I think Nick Clegg has made the single biggest strategic error in politics in modern times. What he has done is not good for democracy and it is not good for pushing for real reform of our tired system.  My anger with the Lib Dems is that they have assisted those who wish to maintain the two party stranglehold on the UK. Instead of setting themselves apart and forcing the changes we need as a vocal opposition party they have muzzled themselves in government. Being responsible to those who voted for you is more important than doing deals for a secure government. Principles simply matter more. How can you say you respect those who vote for you if you are prepared to ride rough-shod over what you have stood for in election?Doing business with a party that is in league with nut-job racists and holocaust deniers is an affront to anyone who values civil liberties. Doing business with a party that is full of twisted xenophobes and vicious 'little englander' attack dogs like Bill Cash and Andrew Rossindell is shameful.  To do business with that party is saying your principles do not matter.  I didn't vote for that. Clegg claims the responsible thing to do was to go into coalition and liberalise the Tories agenda. I don't buy that. Conservatism and Liberalism are two different systems of ideology and the two parties principles are founded so completely opposed to each other that they cannot and should not marry. The differences on the HRA prove that fact. The coalition agreement is the greatest fudge of a party's constitution I have ever seen.  I invite everyone to go read the Lib Dem constitution and ask themsevles if the deal they have reached really does uphold the constitution because, for me, it doesn't.This Tory 'big society' nonsense is utter rot. And Clegg has backed it. This is all a bit like Labour's 'big conversation' in 2005/6. It is every bit as gimmicky and ultimately superficial meaningless b*llocks. People simply do not have time to engage in mass voluntary work and take control of local facilities. Ultimately, people elect a government to manage these systems effectively whilst they have busy lives. This is just sloppy lazy governance... it is 'let's just let communities muck it up rather than take responsibility'. The Con Dem proposals simply allow for the usual community crack-pots to run rough-shod over the people who are nailing down jobs whilst caring for elderly parents and children. It is really just self-absolving irresponsible government and not about small government.I can't believe my former party has pressed on the issue of a five year government. How is such a long term democratic?  I am shocked at the principle of the 55% no confidence rule.  How is this anything like constitutional?Being let down by politicians is nothing new, I am sure you will all say this. But to be sold out on principles like these is truly a shocker. But what is the solution for those Lib Dems who are utterly ashamed of what has happened? It's not going Labour right now. Labour's authoritarian ways need to be excorcised if it is going to run a chariot though this pathetic undemocratic coalition that is really up to no good constitutionally. Labour has behaved like an arrogant authoritarian school master for 13 years.  They need to take a long hard look at themselves.There is a void in our politics right now, it's a void that needs filled with a responsible entity that campaigns on protecting civil liberties and seeks real root and branch democratic and constitional reform.  The Lib Dems have abandoned this as the constition they have is now worth precisely nothing.

Conal Stewart ● 5826d13 Comments

SteveGeorge Osborne, David Laws and Vince Cable all made it clear yesterday that the initial £6.5 billion of cuts is only the initial amount of cuts. It is  less than a 1% cut in annual Government expenditure which is now running at over £700 billion per annum, of which about £160 billion is a deficit and therefore has to be paid for by borrowing.I would expect Government expenditure to be cut by at least 5% or £35 billion this year.Government expenditure has more or less doubled in the past 10 years. Are the public services twice as good ?

David Giles ● 5821d

David I agree with much of what you say but I reckon the Tories  'wanting to cut £6 billion' was simply part of their election campaign but had they gained an overall majority we would have seen substantially more being cut (rightly or wrongly)so I sincerely believe that the coalition with the Lib Dems will encourage much more debate and certainly some restraint and caution. That can't  be a bad thing. Can it??

Steve Taylor ● 5821d

Clegg had a choice: to (1) ally himself with a discredited Labour Government which still would not have an overall majority even with Lib Dem support or to (2) ally himselfwith the party which one the largest number of votes and seats and be part of a majority coalition.I think that Clegg and the leading Lib Dems were fed up of being forever in opposition and wanted power. All serious politicians want to be in Government and not in Opposition.So far the coalition appears to be in agreement as to what to do with the most important issue facing the country- the Government's huge deficit left to it by the outgoing Labour Government.Far from restraining the "excesses of the new Tory party" which wanted to cut £6 billion, the Lib Dems have agreed to cut £6.5 billion and appear to be determined to cut a lot more.

David Giles ● 5821d

"It will be for the historians to tell us if Clegg was driven more by the wish for power, or more by the genuine desire to grasp the opportunity of restraining the worst excesses of the new Tory party." I genuinely believe it was his desire to grasp the opportunity of restraining the worst excesses of the new Tory party

Steve Taylor ● 5821d

It is very difficult to be clear whether a sort of PR/AV system would be better for the governance of the UK. I shall be slightly surprised if the Liberals get their wish through Parliament. However I find it very hard to accept the unfairness that some 25% vote Liberal, but do not (until now) get a look in. What has been to our disadvantage about the First past the Post is that the Labour party have had an endless history of putting the country into very serious debt, albeit having given advantages to the poorer end of society which the Tories have not dared undo. Obviously Tories realise that social justice has some very good points. Brown will not be forgotten for a generation due to nearly breaking the UK, in the same way that Thatcher will not be forgotten (for creating a lost generation). The Tories have had to mend the country but with disastrous consequences for them.But we will never know is whether a PR type system would be better. Until we get it, we shall never know. To argue that a strong majority will get more done is spurious. It depends what they get done in the interests of the wider populace.What was interesting was that quite a fair number of Liberals were voted in, but they got very small majorities. If we come really to hate this coalition, then the Liberals could suffer very badly.It will be for the historians to tell us if Clegg was driven more by the wish for power, or more by the genuine desire to grasp the opportunity of restraining the worst excesses of the new Tory party.

George Knox ● 5821d

Won't it just.

Vanessa Smith ● 5822d

I agree with Vanessa Smith.If the electorate had really wanted PR they would have voted overwhelmingly and in great numbers for the Lib Dems which is the only party that wants PR.However far more people voted for the Conservatives and Labour than for the Lib Dems.There will in due course be a vote in the House of Commons on the having a referendum on introducing an Alternative Vote system.It will be interesting to see how many Conservative MP's and how many Labour MP's vote in favour of an Alternative Vote system rather than First Past the Post.

David Giles ● 5822d

I agree with Brian Reade - neither Clegg not Cameron has a mandate to govern which therefore means that neither should be tinkering with our electoral system, after all if that's what the electorate wanted they'd have voted in their millions for the LDs, and they signally failed to do so. He also says that the problem with this coalition and why it will fail, is that Cameron believes in nothing and Clegg believes in rubbish. PR could mean we suffer a permanent state of political paralysis, why change a system that has always served us well?

Vanessa Smith ● 5823d

Blimey I agree with David regards Liberal Conservatives.

Neil Chippendale ● 5825d

Dear all,Have represented the Lib Dems here for almost a decade perhaps time for me to put in my two pennies worth!David it won't surprise you to know that I disagree with your rather simplistic analysis of my views (and other Lib Dem colleagues).  I have always explained that my political philosophy is rooted in taking a balancing approach to social, economic and environmental interests.Conal said "My anger with the Lib Dems is that they have assisted those who wish to maintain the two party stranglehold on the UK. Instead of setting themselves apart and forcing the changes we need as a vocal opposition party they have muzzled themselves in government."Unfortunately I dont think the markets (City of London) and media interests would have given the Lib Dems the space for our voice to be heard if we had sat it out.  Rather than using continued opposition to make the case for PR I think we would have been slaughtered if another General Election was triggered for not doing our bit to provide responsible and stable government at this time.James Graham captures my feelings well in this piece for The Guardian:http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/may/12/lib-dems-coalition-labourWith our local party membership continuing to rise since the election and as this polling would also suggest: http://www.libdemvoice.org/pollwatch-views-of-the-coalition-government-and-party-leaders-19632.html...generally people seem to understand the difficult situation in which the Lib Dems found ourselves - and feel that thus far our parliamentary team are rising to the challenge rather well.Fundamentally as I believe in PR, I also accept that coalitions may be formed with a variety of parties at different points in time.Vanessa said "there is no way the Tories will go for PR, not that I think it's a particularly good idea personally, but I always thought it was the main plank of the Lib Dem policies"Clearly you haven't read the Lib Dems GE Manifesto 2010: http://network.libdems.org.uk/manifesto2010/libdem_manifesto_2010.pdfAs you will see there were many more policies the party had to negotiate on than simply PR.You can read my reflections on the election results here:http://www.andrewdakers.com/profiles/blogs/thank-you...and thoughts on the Lib Dems-Conservative Coalition agreement from a Corporate Responsibility perspective (a particular passion of mine!) here:http://www.andrewdakers.com/profiles/blogs/corporate-responsibility-is-1Best, Andrew

Andrew Dakers ● 5825d

Vanessa,After this election I am sure there are quite a few Dismayed Labour and Dismayed Conservative voters out there also.I do not of course agree with Conal's refusal to accept the logic of Liberal Conservatism as embodied in the new Government. The Liberals and the Conservatives have always been closer historically than the Liberals and Labour. The Liberals changed and lurched to the Left when they merged with the Social Democrats that had left the Labour Party and have since attracted a wide variety of members and supporters varying from Greens like Andrew Dakers, CND supporters, bierdie wierdoes, sandal wearers, pacifists, soldiers like Paddy Ashdown, nicve middle class ladies who wouldn't been seen dead in the Labour Party, socialists like Vince Cable etc and right across the spectrum to Europhiles like Nick Clegg and to good hard-nosed economic and social Liberals like David Laws.I do agree with you about PR. Neither Labour nor the Conservatives want PR. The Lib Dems will be allowed their vote on the AV system and it will be opposed by most Conservative and Labour voters.

David Giles ● 5826d

Blimey! Clegg I am afraid seems to have been prepared to swallow quite a bit in exchange for a little bit of power, there is no way the Tories will go for PR, not that I think it's a particularly good idea personally, but I always thought it was the main plank of the Lib Dem policies. I can understand where you're coming from and I really don't think that the Tories can be trusted, looks like it might be a short honeymoon for Dave 'n' Nick.

Vanessa Smith ● 5826d

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Sarah Felstead ● 5826d