Forum Topic

Are you bothered if we don't get the World Cup here?

All this hoo-ha and dignitaries flying hither and thither to crawl round a bunch of corrupt, up themselves old has-beens strikes me as very OTT. I think it's well past time that the individual national Football Associations found their spines and boycotted FIFA until it is made to become a credible, honest outfit, fit for purpose to run a big wordlwide sport for the sake of the sport and not the profits to be made for various family members and mates. At the moment I wouldn't consider Blatter and his lackeys fit to run a whelk stall. All this fawning makes me feel quite sick.

Vanessa Smith ● 5363d55 Comments

Well,at least you can say'I won't mention the rugby OR the cricket' to her now!

Keith Iddon ● 5357d

No  - my sister in Oz takes great delight in saying "I won't mention the cricket" several times if Oz are winning - so this is revenge! And very sweet it is too.

Vanessa Smith ● 5357d

Vanessa,Are your relatives as sensitive to your feelings when the boot's on the other foot?Rub it in while you can why don't you?;-)It is returning,thankfully,to the scenarios of my childhood in the 60's,70's and 80's when you could not really predict who was going to win them because the sides were evenly matched and the urn changed hands almost every time.It's only since the late 80's until 2005 that the Aussies dominated them.Happy days(hopefully)!

Keith Iddon ● 5357d

Nothing, but nothing gladdens the heart to see the Aussies getting stuffed in The Ashes, makes for difficult communications with the rellies in Oz though, so I only mention it in passing a couple of times or so! Ponting's face is just a picture, cheers me up no end.

Vanessa Smith ● 5357d

I would so have loved to see the World Cup here again before I turn up my toes.  However, rather better not to have it than to desist from exposing the corruption in FIFA. I would though have thought it better if it had been a UK bid with our representatives coming from places other than Eton.Still at least we are whpping the Aussie collective arses at the moment

Patricia Nicholas ● 5358d

I think you've about got it right Phil but I'd say Sprake was probably better,having won all those medals.My favourite players from that side were Terry Cooper,Eddie Gray(another cert.for a British side imo.)and Sniffer Clarke.

Keith Iddon ● 5359d

ChrisYou are older than me, of course (!), and thus probably have a better memory of the glory days, but I did "support" Leeds United for a year or two as a kid when they were winning everything in sight.My recollection of Sprake is that he had something of the David James about him - a good keeper, but prone to making some silly mistakes.  Have I got that right?

Phil Andrews ● 5359d

Well I knew that! just thought I'd throw it into the melting pot. Norman, thankfully, never bit my legs, but at various functions at Elland Road I did manage to get through Sprakes' legs, as did many a football!

Christopher Boucher ● 5359d

Christopher,Old 'Bites yer legs' was English and won a few England caps.Johnny Giles Irish,not British.

Keith Iddon ● 5359d

Norman Hunter, Jonny Giles, Peter Lorimer, Billy Bremner, NOT Gary Sprake, oops, sorry, members of the most successful Leeds United team ever. Billy Bremner has of course died.

Christopher Boucher ● 5359d

Yes mate, and Colin Hendry and probably one or two others.  As usual I was just exaggerating to emphasise a point...;o)

Phil Andrews ● 5359d

Phil,God knows I'm no Liverpool fan but aren't you forgetting Kenny Dalgleish?

Keith Iddon ● 5359d

.. however while the officials are undoubtedly on the gravy train, disbanding the national football associations for "team UK" would be deeply unpopular with fans as well.. there is just too much history to overcome.

Patrick ONeill ● 5359d

Given some of the dumplings who have played for England in recent years it is difficult not to conclude that footballers born elsewhere in the UK might have performed equally well for such a projected national team.However, the inference from your point, Phil, is that a UK team is unlikely to have any more impact than England has had in recent times. I agree.Indeed,following the World Cup, Capello is rumoured to have complained to his masters at the FA that, unlike Ferguson, Ancelotti, Wenger, and other Premier managers, his results were adversely affected because he is unable to pick a team of his choice. The lack of knowledge of football demonstrated by David Cameron was illustrated when he emphasised the strength of the Premiership in his bid speech. This is a league in which the major teams are mainly foreign-owned, manned  mainly by foreign players, and managed by foreign (including Alex Ferguson) managers. When he talked of stadia packed to the rafters he failed to remember that a number of the games played in the 1996 European Championships in England were in half-empty stadia, and even the semi-final at Old Trafford was far from full. It is interesting that the Russia Today take (no less biased of course than the English media) points out that the Premiership clubs have only avoided bankrupcy through being bailed out by foreign capital, citing Chelsea as a prime example.What is clear is that most football pundits today believe club teams are technically vastly superior to national teams. This was not a widely held view many years ago. Surveys suggest supporters of smaller teams in England and Scotland are far more likely to follow their respective national teams than supporters of the leading Premier clubs.The cuts in school sports budgets that Michael Gove was in the process of pushing through until Cameron became aware of their implications last week would only have made the prospect of future world-class young footballers from England even more remote than ever.I suspect that the issue of where the 2018 tournament would go was of far more interest to the TV-watching football "supporters" rather than those who spend money week in and week out either playing football or attending live games. If I am right about this then the outcome last Thursday will have no meaningful impact upon the state of the game.

John Connelly ● 5359d

Seems to me - that at both national and international level - that until these 'officials' start putting the sport first and their self interest at the back of the queue nothing will change. If we are not big enough to even consider the prospect of a Team UK and put petty rivalry aside we ain't going nowhere, we have to put our own house in order first.

Vanessa Smith ● 5359d

...because 4 years isn't long enough to prepare for the games, particularly if facilities need to be built.The rugby world cup is much smaller than the football word cup but they both had a similar approach with rugby selecting the host countries for the 2015 and 2019 world cups at the same time.

Patrick ONeill ● 5359d

The fact that the 4 UK Football Associations (FA, Scottish, Welsh and Irish), unlike any other FIFA members, have the privilege of permanent positions on FIFA's executive council is a cause of resentment and would certainly be raised as something that should be reformed if the FA pushed for reforms of FIFA.I can't see the blazers of the 4 UK FAs voting themselves out of existence and creating a single UK Football Association - it would be like turkeys voting for Christmas and the end of too many freebies and jollies for all the officials concerned.

Patrick ONeill ● 5359d

Perhaps it's time for football to follow the Eurovision (song contest) route - winner hosts the following world cup.  This would do away with bidding and committees and jollies etc and it would be a straightforward winner takes it all!  Why not?

Bernadette Paul ● 5359d

An interesting prospect, but notwithstanding England's unspectacular performances of late which non-English players would feature in a Team UK?Gareth Bale, perhaps?Ryan Giggs, if he were ten years younger.The last Scotsman who would have made the line-up was probably Denis Law.I realise this doesn't address the principle, but were I a Scot, a Welshman or somebody who supported the Six Counties I would be unenthused by the prospect of having to spend the rest of my natural having no option but to cheer on a team of Englishmen.

Phil Andrews ● 5359d

"I believe countries should only get the tournament once, and should not be permitted to bid against countries that have not yet been hosts. It was ludicrous that the USA and Japan/Korea, both recent hosts, were allowed to bid for 2022." I think that would be fair and save a lot of time and effort, and anyway given the England team's abysmal performances, not to mention the others, it might not be such a bad idea to have a team UK.

Vanessa Smith ● 5359d

As Paul points out earlier in this thread, his trip to Qatar to see England play Brazil was brought about because of efforts by the FA to buy Qatar's vote in last week's contest. This was unsuccessful, as was the trip to play in the Caribbean designed to enrol Warner's vote. Indeed, the planned trip to Thailand for next year is reported to be off due to their failure to deliver the expected vote on England's behalf. In a dodgy game England played by the rules and lost.That FIFA is corrupt is not in question. However, the UK associations need to be careful in calling for reform. Remember that the reason there is no UK football team in next year's Olympics is because of the fear that this would provide justification to FIFA to reduce British representation from 4 (Wales, England, Scotland and the Six Counties)to 1, putting us in the same position as the rest of the world.As to Michael's suggestion as to who should get the tournament, I disagree with the Eurovision model he proposes. Clearly, a large number of countries among the 208 FIFA members would be judged too small to bid - prior to the Qatar win, that is. For the rest, I believe countries should only get the tournament once, and should not be permitted to bid against countries that have not yet been hosts. It was ludicrous that the USA and Japan/Korea, both recent hosts, were allowed to bid for 2022.

John Connelly ● 5359d

Well said, Adam.I also think John makes a good point. England fans never seem to dwell on the questionable decision of 66 for the simple reason that we were the beneficiaries. But we were (and still are) much less willing to accept the questionable decision of 86 - for the simple reason that we were not the beneficiaries.All nations are pretty much the same: they like it when it goes in their favour and they cry foul when it doesn't.So why get worked up about it?

Robin Taylor ● 5359d

Good posting Michael.

Keith Iddon ● 5359d

I agree with you about what the 'whole issue' is Vanessa, what I don't agree with is any suggestion that our bid was overflowing with integrity and didn't contain any 'sweeteners' (e.g. the Dorchester).And although the majority keep harping on about the Russian bid, don't forget we came last in the bidding process, behind the two joint bids from Belgium/Holland & Spain/Portugal, so were their bids totally corrupt too ?.Like we usually do on the pitch, we played a bad game off the pitch, and aren't taking defeat particularly well.

Adam Beamish ● 5359d

Speaking as a person of German parentage, I can understand Mark's pub rhetoric as the words of a working man. It would be just the same in a bar in Germany and probably any other country.  Johns comments are laced with jealousy, no mention of Lampard's disallowed goal in SA! I suspect because his country cannot win a Cadbury's creme egg.Germany was critical of FIFA and was bought off by Blatter.You do not mention the fact that German Bundeslega and the Swiss league got to play with the Jubalani ball for a whole season before the  W C Finals.It was strictly forbidden by FIFA for any other nation to even train with the ball.  Is that fair? Did anyone ask why.It is part of the game and at least keeps an eternal talking point, but no-one in Germany holds that view except in jest.If you live here why do you not support the team of your hosts. I support England, not Germany, because I have lived most of my life here, this is my home country now. Of course I follow Germany but if it comes to England v Germany it has to be England. It is well known that the IoC and FIFA are corrupt juggernauts, Why do you think they are harboured in Switzerland, a country spat in the middle of the EU which is not a member, that holds in it's inventory the spoils of many a war, which allows arms dealers to broker dodgy deals and yet portrays itself as whiter than white and squeaky clean.Far better would be to run the World Cup like the eurovision song contest. The winner becomes the next host or for infrastructure reasons maybe the next host but one. If Brazil win in say 2014, they would be host in 2022.Only the first venue would be decided, But id Brazil won in 2022 they would not be allowed to host the next one. That would pass to the other finalist or go to a draw for the 3 semi finalists.This would be fairer and should encourage better football. No-one seems to have noticed that much of the poor football in FIFA tournaments has been rather sub standard and much is due to meddling by FIFA. This country is supposed to be all about fairness. With corruption in government and authority being uncovered as far deeper than most of us imagined, it has taken a severe dent in it's credibility. It needs to rise above this trough of temptation and set new standards.The starting point in football would have to be the FA and Football league, all those are almost as bad as FIFA, but easily fixed. Then things might make a difference. I suspect not in my lifetime though!

Michael Brandt ● 5359d

With respect to Robin Adam etc. You are missing the point big time I think. This is not a question of "my country, right or wrong" (although Robin - you tend to be a proponent of my party, right or wrong). I expect John as a Scot to be dismissive, however, the whole issue here is integrity, honesty and corruption. If Blatter wants a "legacy" then why have countries that don't have a cat in hell's chance bidding in the first place? Why even have a bidding process at all - why not just award the bloody tournament to whoever it is Blatter wants? Naturally this would mean that the FIFA board would miss out on all the jollies attached. People are passionate about their sport so I think Mark's reaction - whilst colourful, was pretty typical. Either the opportunity is taken to clean things up and have a more democratic process and in that I include the I.O.C. and our own F.A., or what is the bloody point? And the matter completely at the heart of this is the issue of sport, getting people involved, not lining pockets, swanning around the world glad handing the great and not so good, and outright fiddling. The fact we lost isn't the maddening thing, it's the fact that if we are going to lose out to someone else then it should at least be on a level playing field. As it was it is pretty obvious we were stuffed before we started.

Vanessa Smith ● 5359d

Very droll, but then John I lost faith in your judgement on football matters when you didn't attend a meeting at the Civic Centre because the result was a "foregone conclusion" - and went to watch Celtic play in Barcelona instead! ;o)

Phil Andrews ● 5359d

It is ironic that FIFA gave the 2018 tournament to the country that supplied the linesman who awarded the goal that never was in 1966 that denied Germany a deserved victory.Incidentally, will Kathy Middleton's future spouse be remembered in history as "World Cup - No! Willy"?

John Connelly ● 5359d

I agree with you, Adam.Vanessa may be right that Mark's proud to be an Englishman, and there's nothing wrong with that, but the problem is the way he reacted to the outcome.England played the game like all the others - and lost. Had we won, Mark would not now be railing against how corrupt it all was.Yes, there are great things about England - but a bit of humility wouldn't go amiss, and the "my country right or wrong" mentality sucks.But like I say - it takes all sorts. Life is full of characters (whether it's the snobs on W4 or the oiks on TW8).These sorts of differences can be endearing, although something tells me I'll get an earful from MW when he returns to the forum later.

Robin Taylor ● 5360d

I've no idea why everyone wants to come here - if I had lots of money/my job was easily transferable abroad, I wouldn't live here.  But I don't think that's relevant to this particular topic.I don't believe the decision was influenced by the press (presumably you refer to Panorama) or indeed the unfortunate scenes after the Birmingham v Villa game.But what is relevant is suggesting that our bid was whiter than white - the whole thing about the Dorchester being promised to FIFA during the Olympics if they backed our bid is shameful, indeed in my book that's corruption too.Basically, we tried to buy/influence FIFA, we lost because the Russians made a better job of it, and now we're throwing our toys out our pram as though the English bid was 'angelic' and anyone associated with the Russian bid is the offspring of the devil.

Adam Beamish ● 5360d

Mark is obviouly proud of being an Englishman something that has become looked down on for a long time. What is it with us? Yes, there are more important matters in the great scheme of things but that shouldn't blind us to the fact that the game of football will not be enhanced by these decisions, it is purely and simply a pocket lining exercise for an exclusive bunch of people, mostly crooks, and I am sick and tired of being called "arrogant" and a "little Englander" for standing up for this country which in my humble opinion is one of the best in the world. It annoys me intensely that we're constantly slagged off yet every sod wants to come here - if it's so awful and we're so dreadful - why? The decision was influenced by the fact we do have a free press and I say good on them, as is so often said - if you've nothing to hide - you've nothing to fear. Personally I think we should pull out of all International matches and let the nest of vipers get on with it.

Vanessa Smith ● 5360d

Robin, to be fair to Mark, his subsequent comments about this issue have been far more 'moderated', and I'll never criticise anyone too much for wearing their heart on their sleeve - just bemuses me a little when people react like that about something that in the grander scheme of things is trivial.The thing is, what happened on Thursday happens on a different scale in respect of different matters every single day - in my 'world' of town planning on occasions I've seen clients get told pre-application by some Councillors how great their scheme is, how they'll support it etc, and then the application is formally submitted, local residents are opposed to it, and the same Councillors suddenly hate the scheme.What happened on Thursday is part of playing the game of life, simple as that.  And Boris's antics today of refusing the invitation for FIFA members to stay at the Dorchester during the Olympics is so cringeworthy - (1) firstly because its such a public display of sour grapes, like a 3 year old who has his toy taken off him, and (2) it demonstrates how our bid also contained 'sweeteners' (sounds better than bribes) to try to influence FIFA Members to support our bid.

Adam Beamish ● 5360d

Adam,I copied Mark's expletive-laden post over onto the W4 forum - where there was another thread about England's failed world cup bid.I did it (a) because I thought Mark's remarks were unintentionally funny, and (b) because they provided an amusing antidote to the altogether much more "up market" debate which was going on over there.Unfortunately, some sensitive souls who lead rather sheltered lives took great offence at what I did, and accused me of sabotaging what had hitherto been a "civilised" discussion.I agree with you, though - Mark's comments on a range of issues (including his thread about the Burka) betray a worrying mentality.Still, it takes all sorts. Personally, I'm just as offended by the snotty-nosed remarks that pass for informed debate over on W4 (where, for example, Jennifer Selig once proposed that the best way to combat poverty is to sterilise poor people).

Robin Taylor ● 5360d

Well unfortunatly there are too many people who just want to stomach the result.I for one certainly dont want FIFA to get off lightly on this one.A total shambles and stitch up and they should be told it and harrased by our glorious press !!!

Mark Welland ● 5360d

Bothered? I'm delighted! Successive governments have already squandered billions of our money on the overhyped gravy train that is the Olympics - that's fine for the politicos and others who get to make fine speeches and puff their chests on stage, but they don't have to pay the bills. Waste yet more billions to watch a bunch of overpaid lads kick a ball around, while Blatter and the politicos posture once more? No thanks.

Bryan Betts ● 5360d

You could argue though that it is in the best interests of the sport that the World Cup is held in Russia and the Middle East, as they've never held it before etc.  Not necessarily an argument I agree with (and nor one I think was crucial to the voting outcome) but I think the press here has a rather pompous/arrogant attitude to the whole thing.Yes I would have liked the World Cup to be held here (I wasn't born in 1966) but the decision is trivial in the grander scheme of (a) my life and (b) the state of the world.  If I'm honest, Mark's tirades on here about this scare the hell out of me - get a grip man.

Adam Beamish ● 5361d

So do I Mark, so do I, you should see some of the more moronic - holier than thou responses on the Chiswick forum, how some of those people manage to function with their heads firmly up their rears is a mystery to me. I have to say hand on heart that I wasn't overly bothered about getting the World Cup here. I was so lucky to have had the opportunity of watching it in 1966. BUT if we are going to lose then I'd like it to be a fair decision made in the interests of the sport, not a complete and utter stitch up by a bunch of bent, half senile, bunch of crooks only interested in how many contracts they can share out among their relatives.

Vanessa Smith ● 5361d

I REALLY REALLY HOPE that our press go for ALL of FIFA's corrupt members,[which I hasten to add is mainly all of them]and like make their life as awkward as possible !!!

Mark Welland ● 5362d

Sorry, well said Vanessa, our cricketers are doing us proud!

Christopher Boucher ● 5362d

All I can say is well done to the Sunday Times and Panorama for exposing the "alleged" corruption in FIFA. I'm at a loss to understand why only 22 people get to vote on behalf of a membership of more than 200. Whilst it may be seen as churlish I think the FA should not field an England team in the next World Cup, not because we didn't win the bid, but simply because we should not be seen as party to this ridiculous, corrupt, organisation and voting system.

Christopher Boucher ● 5362d

I support Michael's view 100%. England need to stand up and be counted, and tell FIFA to bugger off in no uncertain terms. We surely could not even contemplate taking part in anything they organise after this, it has to be stopped, and good for a truly free press. I thought that the Prime Minister, Prince Wiliiam and David Beckham were excellent representatives who behaved with dignity and passion and felt truly sorry for them on hearing the result. At least our cricketers are doing us proud in Oz.

Vanessa Smith ● 5362d

Good info from Paul, who puts a lot of time and money into following England for scant reward. I figured that our talk about our great stadia et was counter productive - they talk about this legacy wish, giving a country the chance to improve its facilities. As I understand it Russia has promised to remove the need for visas from supporters. Added to that is that no WC has been held 'behind the Iron Curtain'. Russia likes its football and having this tournament might force them to do something about the racism and bigotry in the stands.Qatar on the other hand is ridiculous. No football heritage at all and baking hot. Paul is right to remember how we dragged ourselves out there to get a vote or two, in the same way that the FA have agreed to go to Thailand in June 2011 for a friendly in order to get a couple of votes. That went well, didn't it.But one other thing. The World Cup is not what it was. It used to be a chance to see players you'd only read about or seen brief clips, and it's hard to believe but there was a time when there were only a couple of live games a year on TV. Now we can see all these players every week.

Matt Harmer ● 5362d

One can only applaud the journalists who produced Panorama the other night.I'm glad it was shown before this debacle. It is shameful that we sent our top people, A Prince, a Prime Minister, a Mayor and a Football Legend to grovel to the likes of Blatter and his corrupt thugs. Nothing new as a few decent journalists in other countries have been on his and his cronies case for several years. Falling on deaf ears because our own FA is little better.We should have nothing to do with FIFA,England have now no chance of hosting the World Cup for at least 16 years, Wales Ireland and Scotland have no chance.That's enough time to start a new body run from the home of football, and even if we never win or host a tournament, it should be run with a watertight open constitution with fairness and openess at it's heart.Russia and Qatar are both cash rich countries. The one thing that FIFA have done is brought football to new frontiers and it is a better bonder than religion. But have we had a good 'Football World Cup' ?  No. Last few have been well hosted but the football and the FIFA involvement has been really poor.

Michael Brandt ● 5362d

My sympathy goes to the mugs who were persuaded by the spin merchants of the English gutter press to put their money on the English bid in the last few days. These "journalists" knew damn well that last minute lobbying in Zurich would have no impact on the final outcome. Their gullible readers' cash pushed England from distant odds to favourites for the bid, ensuring a good outcome for the bookies. Is it too much to hope that truthful reporting will be forthcoming in the future?

John Connelly ● 5362d

The bizarre thing is that I went to Qatar recently when England played Brazil in a friendly there and of course that was only to help Qatar's bid and get their vote for our own bidDoha the Capital was an amazing place but you could only drink after 5pm in a select few hotels and although the City had a lot of building work going on I just cannot see how they will have enough rooms available to copeMoscow was just gridlocked traffic when I went there and is absolutely vast and again I cannot see how they will cope with the amount of visitor's as it was a nightmare getting in to the Country with their suspicious security and Visa issues

Paul Fisher ● 5363d

Although I agree with all your sentiments Mark, notwithstanding some of the more colourful descriptions of certain people, are you suggesting that you'd have been happy to go along with all this a***e licking if we'd have won? For what it's worth I think that this country should go all out to expose the bribery and corruption in high places even if we never get a major tournament again. Russia and Qatar - please!

Vanessa Smith ● 5363d

F***ING RUSSIA ?...BUNCH OF CORUPT BENT BASTARDS INCLUDING THAT C**NT OF A CHELSEA CHAIRMAN !!!

Mark Welland ● 5363d

So Russia won.No back handers there then...

Keith Iddon ● 5363d

WHAT A F***ING JOKE !!!...WE SHOULD NOW GO HELL FOR LEATHER TO TURF THESE CORUPT C**TS OUT !!!

Mark Welland ● 5363d

Fingers crossed old son !!!...I really believe if we dont get it we should NEVER bid for it again...WE REALLY HAVE THE BEST BID !!!

Mark Welland ● 5363d

The funniest thing I heard on TV today was that "Russia should not get the World Cup because of their transport system"  This in a country where people have spent the night on trains

Jean Gilmore ● 5363d

I agree in principal to some of what you are saying Vanessa but a tree that doesn't bend in the wind id destined to break.Brown nosing is endemic to modern life on many levels,particularly with things like this.In politics it is rife and I would wager,and here I will probably get loads of stick,but in other countries bribery and corruption is an established way of doing business.Here it goes on to a lesser degree,imo,and is more covert but it exists.Do you want the warmth of inclusion or to stand out in the cold?We don't bid for it every time so won't be prostituting ourselves again for some time if we get it this time.Not sure we will though.

Keith Iddon ● 5363d

Of course we should get The World Cup.We have by far the best bid...Stadia,which are already up to standard and are all World Class.History,our game is watched the world over,coupled with what we can offer tourists.And of course not forgeting the last time we staged it was BLOODY 1966...WE ARE WELL OVERDUE !!!

Mark Welland ● 5363d

If brown nosing is obligatory then it's high time people started to take issue with all this. It cannot be beyond the wit of man to tell FIFA to get stuffed and demand a better way forward that is open and democratic, similarly the IOC and starting with our very own FA.

Vanessa Smith ● 5363d

Vanessa,with all these type of institutions you have to kiss a*se.That's the name of the game.They are all corrupt imo.No country deserves the World Cup more than England.I just hope that the next one,whoever get's it is better than the last one in terms of the quality of the games.

Keith Iddon ● 5363d