Forum Topic

Ed,Please note that I write in the singular when it should be in the Plural,I point this out so that you will understand that I hold Councilor's past and present accountable not anyone person!!!How is it?? that for the next 2 years it is 18 million and then 2 years after that it is only 12 Million per year,how do Council know??? surely the council are not made aware of Government Central Funding so far in advance, or is this again supposition. Was it last year or is it this years budget that has been cut by government, all you councilors both past and present give an excellent synopsis but go round the houses and never ever give a straight answer to a simple question on this forum so that it can be shared by all. My Dear Man there is no suggestion that council should commit fraud by lying to Central Government but what would be helpful to my small brain is for you or anyone else who would be so kind, as to explain the intricacy of your budget proposal to Central Government. You see this is what I don't understand, we as a community earn a great deal of money on Rents,Council Tax, Leisure Centers,Community Hall's Parking Meter's,Clamping,Licensing Fee's,etc,etc this obviously is beside the Grant from Government so one must suppose that we as a community must spend a designated amount of money to qualify for Government Funds and it doesn't matter whether those monies are wasted just so we get the grant. However with good forecasting and closer inspection of works being carried out, also keeping a watchful eye on contractor's prices, plus cutting back on CCTV that really do not help us catch criminals only make more money with parking fines. We could do a lot more and still be within the Grant Premise. Council have not conceded our Libraries back to the community only "Postponed" the decision, consequently we are to be held to ransom when ever council want to cut another service!!!Special Responsibility Allowance Oh!! my word, does that not cover a great deal?? again no positive answer. It is extremely worrying to know that council have abolished something that should be done on a voluntary basis only to be replaced with a Utilitarian Force(Leader & Cabinet) to my mind it would appear that whatever is felt about a particular vote it will go ahead anyway, doesn't matter if it's good or bad for the community it has been voted on. The Grant's that were received last year should be a good pointer.

Dawn Hardy ● 5558d

Dawn,The £18m savings reflects the amount that has already been cut from the Council's central government funding. In order to fill this gap £18m savings have to be found in the forthcoming budget and the one after. The Council has to pass a legal budget. If the Council approves an illegal budget (or doesn't set one at all) Councillors forfeit their ability to set it. In order for the budget to be legal £18m savings have to be found because of the loss of central government funding.Finding the extra £3m should be straightforward. The consultation outlined potential savings in excess of £18m. Some of these have been removed in response to the results of the public consultation, e.g. libraries and parts of the savings from community halls and the Youth Service. In other cases it was found that the saving could not definitely be achieved in time for this budget, so some proposals were removed because of caution. However because in excess of £18m was identified, finding £3m from the proposals that were not controversial will be possible.Estimates on the additional grants we will lose are still being calculated. So I cannot give any accurate figures on this as yet. And it may well be the case that some grants that are removed are replaced by others. But there will almost certainly be a net loss as all central government departments are being forced to make cuts. It therefore figures that their grants to local government will be cut too.These additional grants are not secret. They are outlined in the Council's accounts and financial statements. See the Finance page of the Council website. But they do not appear in the budget consultation or the figures presented to the Executive on Tuesday because the Council has no power over them. For the amount spent on the Leisure Centre I suggest you look at the information on the Finance page of the Council website.As I mentioned in my last post, an SRA is a Special Responsibility Allowance. It is an allowance Councillors receive for doing extra duties. Information about Council committees and SRAs are on the Council website. Most committees were abolished when the Council abandoned the committee system and replaced it with the current "Leader and cabinet" system as per new Local Government laws approved by Parliament. However some remain, some because they are statutory. Licensing Committee is statutory. As you will see from Tuesday night's Executive Agenda, line COR5 on p95 of the public reports pack to be exact, the Labour administration aims to achieve savings by reducing the number of committees and making changes to committee arrangements.

Ed Mayne ● 5559d

Ed, Many thanks for a concise synopsis, I have digested it thoroughly over today day and I have questions for you:-To clarify, Hounslow Council needs to save £60m over 4 years. The central government share of the Council's funding for the next budget has already been cut, which means the savings have to be front loaded. The Council will therefore cut £18m from the forthcoming budget, £18m the year after, £12m the year after that and £12m the year after that - unless of course the coalition government changes their mind on local government funding which seems unlikely.1. Why? Is it necessary to cutback 18 Million Pounds on the forthcoming budget then 18 Million on the year second year, then 12 Million the third year then 12 million on the 4th year that is a difference of 6 Million Pounds each year on the first 2 years. Surely it is possible to cutback 15 Million over the 4 year period, you say yourself that at your Executive Meeting you have found just over 15 Million and that you have to find a further 3 Million which needs to be found in time for the budget, this gives one the impression that this is a difficulty finding the 3 Million. Then Why not I reiterate use 15 Million on a yearly basis.  This £60m does not include many of the central government grants which fund some Council services. Decisions on many of these have not been made yet. But many will undoubtedly disappear, some already have, which means the Council will actually have to make more than £60m worth of cuts, but you won't see all of these in the Council's budget. Right now Council staff are trying to find every funding option they can to save vital services.2. It would seem that you pre-empt a supposition and purely on that, action is to be taken on something that has not been decided by Central Government. However you give a definitive when you say that many grants will undoubtedly disappear.A) Which ones-How much do they cost?B) Why? Will we not see these in the Council’s Budget, is this because these funds are a golden egg gift to be utilized outside of the budgeted figures that we are privy to see?C) How much is it going to cost us for the Savings & Transformation Team!! Sounds too much like a Quango!!I wasn't a Councilor when the decision to refurbish Brentford Fountain Leisure Centre was made so I do not know the details about it. That’s a poor excuse Ed!! 3. When ever I took over a department, I made it a rule to always find out how the dept, had been organized and run by my predecessor, what was in the pipeline. A weekly & monthly forecast of expenditure was a must also management meetings kept us on track, efficiency in the Finance Dept saves you money!!!    So just how much did the Leisure Centers cost us?? The Treasury has set aside an extra £650 million to help local authorities in England freeze their council tax next year...The new grant scheme will be open to all billing and major precepting authorities, including police and fire authorities, which decide to freeze or reduce their council tax next year. If they do, they will receive additional funding in 2011-12, equivalent to raising their 2010-11 council tax by 2.5 per cent. The Spending Review also commits to providing authorities with additional funding in future years to "lock in" the benefits of the one year freeze and help ensure council taxpayers will not face subsequent excessive increases."So a "small" increase in Hounslow Council tax would not benefit anybody.4. Doesn’t this mean that Central Government has in fact paid the Communities Council Tax Increase for us!!Just one quick point to address remarks about the allowance received by the Chair of the Licensing Committee. The 15 Councillors who make up this committee used to pocket £500 per year each just for sitting on the committee. That equals £7500 in total. This arrangement has now been ended and instead the Chair receives a £6400 Special Responsibility Allowance (SRA) each year, the same as the other major committee chairs. So this is actually a small saving for the Council.5. Just how many committees also how many members are there, are they really necessary, seems an awful waste of money when we have so many councilors. And for the record, as an Executive Member, I have cut my allowances overall by 25%, as have all other Councillors who receive SRAs. Councillors who do not receive SRAs have all cut their "basic" allowance by 5%.6. Well done! But what are SRA’s Ideas on saving money!!7. All Council Management earning over one hundred thousand pounds a year take a pay cut to 100k maximum, by golly that would save a lot of money.8. Hold off buying 100 New Uniforms, make do with what they have, send uniforms being used now to the cleaners. They will look as good as new and save a fortune.9. Penalize “JLS” for over-running at Isleworth ”Leisure Campus”.10. Have a Qualified Inspection of all Estimates, encourage other Contractors to put in estimates. TIED TO ONE YOU GET STUNG

Dawn Hardy ● 5560d

Credit to Ed for giving such a thorough response to the various questions put.  You must be a new councillor Ed! :o)A couple of additional points:1. If the SRA for individual (cross-party) members of the Licensing Committee was removed at the time that an SRA for the (Labour) Chair was introduced then the economic case is made, although I would agree with Hazel that there is no case for any remuneration for serving on this particular body.Having served on this Committee myself I can see no case at all for the Chair being so generously rewarded for what is a very easy and occasional job.  The Committee itself meets very rarely and most of the work involved is by the Panels, which are drawn from the Committee.  In my experience some Committee members served on significantly more Panels than others and those who were regulars almost certainly did more work and committed more of their time than the Chair.2. I said at the time and will repeat that it is to the credit of the new administration that it reduced councillor allowances (if I recall correctly it was actually 20% in the case of SRAs).  However, as Labour opposed the original increase the logical thing for it to have done would have been to reset allowances to their pre-increase levels.  Why did it not do this?I would add finally that there is no evidence of any work to reconsider either the level or the number of chief and senior officer salaries.  With £60m needing to be found it is extraoridnary that the new administration would appear content to continue to carry this particular cross.  A cynic might feel that this is because the proposals originate wholly or at least in large part from that particular source and recall an old saying about turkeys and Christmas.If things are so serious that we have to even contemplate closing libraries and cutting community halls adrift then there should be no sacred cows.

Phil Andrews ● 5560d

Ed I found your clarification helpful. I have one point of clarification and one question for you.1. The LibDem Group on Hounslow Council this time last year proposed a small increase in Council Tax be introduced for the year in which we are now - the current financial year. Had this been implemented the cuts would have needed to be less severe in the next financial year.2. I am astonished to hear that members of the Licensing Committee received remuneration (in addition to that of being a councillor)for being part of this committee. So my stance remains that this was no time to increase the payment to its chairman. The saving would have been made greater by simply removing the payment of members. Why was this different from being a member of Sustainable Development or Scrutiny?3.I recommend readers of this discussion to read an excellent piece by Simon Jenkins http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/08/cameron-council-tax-thatcher-cap  and will quote a small extract:"Over the past three years, while Whitehall was still spending recklessly, local councils saw trouble coming. In Labour's last year, as Alistair Darling capped council taxes ever tighter, local spending rose a mere 1%, while central government was increasing by 3%-5%. In Osborne's October cuts, local government was told to take a cut in grant of 27% in real terms by 2015. This compares with a 7% for defence and 3% for education. Councils were banned from making up for that cut by raising local taxes, as might happen in any other country in Europe."What has happened was predictable. Since savings rarely come through in years one and two, councils have front-loaded their cuts in early years to gain the benefit in later years."

Hazel Dakers ● 5560d

DawnTo clarify, Hounslow Council needs to save £60m over 4 years. The central government share of the Council's funding for the next budget has already been cut, which means the savings have to be front loaded. The Council will therefore cut £18m from the forthcoming budget, £18m the year after, £12m the year after that and £12m the year after that - unless of course the coalition government changes their mind on local government funding which seems unlikely.This £60m does not include many of the central government grants which fund some Council services. Decisions on many of these have not been made yet. But many will undoubtedly disappear, some already have, which means the Council will actually have to make more than £60m worth of cuts, but you won't see all of these in the Council's budget. Right now Council staff are trying to find every funding option they can to save vital services.I wasn't a Councillor when the decision to refurbish Brentford Fountain Leisure Centre was made so I do not know the details about it. This decision was made when the Conservative-Isleworth Community Group coalition ran Hounslow Council between 2006 and 2010. Labour took over after the local elections last year, when I was elected. Cllr Mark Bowen, who posted earlier in this thread, was Deputy Leader of the Council during this coalition so he may be able to answer your question. Phil Andrews and Paul Fisher, who have also posted, served in this administration at different times so they may be able to shed some light on this too. Though it must be pointed out that after CIP was ended, Council leisure centres were contracted out to Fusion. So Fusion must have supported this refurbishment in some form. You're welcome to email me about this (ed.mayne@hounslow.gov.uk), and I'll look into it for you if you prefer.Regarding the Council Tax question, here is a quote from the Department for Communities and Local Government website:"The Treasury has set aside an extra £650 million to help local authorities in England freeze their council tax next year...The new grant scheme will be open to all billing and major precepting authorities, including police and fire authorities, which decide to freeze or reduce their council tax next year. If they do, they will receive additional funding in 2011-12, equivalent to raising their 2010-11 council tax by 2.5 per cent. The Spending Review also commits to providing authorities with additional funding in future years to "lock in" the benefits of the one year freeze and help ensure council taxpayers will not face subsequent excessive increases."So a "small" increase in Hounslow Council tax would not benefit anybody.Just one quick point to address remarks about the allowance received by the Chair of the Licensing Committee. The 15 Councillors who make up this committee used to pocket £500 per year each just for sitting on the committee. That equals £7500 in total. This arrangement has now been ended and instead the Chair receives a £6400 Special Responsibility Allowance (SRA) each year, the same as the other major committee chairs. So this is actually a small saving for the Council.And for the record, as an Executive Member, I have cut my allowances overall by 25%, as have all other Councillors who receive SRAs. Councillors who do not receive SRAs have all cut their "basic" allowance by 5%.In response to Jim's point earlier, the Council has set up a Savings and Transformation team which we hope will deliver many of the savings in years to come. However I must stress, it has been hard enough finding £18m of savings for the forthcoming budget. Tonight, at our Executive Meeting, we agreed on just over £15m of cuts, so a further £3m approx will need to be found in time for the budget. And then next year we have to find £18m again!! This is just the beginning of a very painful journey.

Ed Mayne ● 5561d

Hazel,it would appear that you are in agreement to some of the proposed cuts, all councilor's which ever party you support have a duty and an accountability to use your power for the good of the community,for goodness sake it is a council you should not have whips to tell you how to vote it should be up to your conscience, why? if any of you were so disgruntled did you not take the result and your criticisms to the press. London Borough of Hounslow Councilors should have learnt from the fiasco of CIP's bankruptcy and fought tooth over nail over giving both our Libraries to Laing & Leisure Centers to Fusion at such a high cost to we the Tax Payer.As for the Computer System being replaced, when a computer break's it can normally be fixed by IT or if not an individual computer can be purchased to replace it, a large number of computer's require a database to store all information as a back-up. Databases depend upon the IT System that is used, I did ask what system was being used and what was the proposed replacement, but of course NO answer was forth coming, again why? do they need a new Telephone System NO answer is it possible that surplus funds require being used before March to enable our Government Grant to be forth coming. I do not suggest complete control taken away from council's only that our government should not give too much power to councils who generally make a mess of things and then take great delight in blaming this present government for the mess. I don't know about these Voluntary Organisations so I will not comment. I totally agree with you on Afghanistan we should never have stepped foot in there, that is a battle that will never be won purely because 95% of the Heroin in the World comes from there, our Men and Women in our Armed Forces are being killed on a daily basis. However we must not forget that Tony Blair with his lies and deceit frightened the House into voting for War on Iraq, do you not remember poor Dr Kelly who was murdered because he was going to tell the truth that there were no Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq, Mr Blair had already agreed with George Bush 1 year before the War on a trip to Mr Bush's ranch that he would bring the UK in to support him. All MP's are culpable for the decision to go into that war and our troop's died because Gordon Brown told lies about funding. Even now Tony Blair is still flitting around the Middle East as a Voluntary Envoy making a fortune out of it and costing us at least 2 Million Pounds a year for Police Protection. We should bring our troops home and concentrate on making our country great again. No money can ever ever replace the lives of our young men and women who lost their lives or the sadness brought about by these tragedies for their families.

Dawn Hardy ● 5561d

"Wonderful" support for Brentford Library Read-In Feb 7 2011 By Jessica Thompson oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooA READ-IN at Brentford Library "made more impact than anything you could say or write" according to one of the organisers. More than 100 people showed up at the library on Saturday to show their support at the event, which featured appearances from former broadcaster Anna Ford among other well known local faces.The library quickly filled with residents who all brought or borrowed one of their favourite books in the hope they could read an extract. But attendance at the event was so overwhelming that there was not time for everyone to read, with two hours worth of extracts enjoyed by those present.The event was organised by local residents in reaction to threats from the council to close up to eight local libraries, including the Brentford branch.One of the organisers, Hazel Dakers, who lives off the High Street, said: "It was absolutely wonderful, we couldn't have hoped for such wonderful public support. It made more impact than anything you could say or write. Everyone was there together and for the same reason, to show that we don't want Brentford Library to close".The day started with words from actress Susan Penhaligon, and words and a reading from local resident and former newsreader Anna Ford, who chose Beatrix Potter's Tailor of Gloucester. Mrs Dakers' husband Chris Dakers read an extract from the account of the first librarian to work at the library when it opened, Fred Turner.Cllr Ruth Cadbury and MP Mary Mcleod also spoke.Mrs Dakers said: "It was interesting to hear which different books people chose to read from. There was a very good atmosphere. The real proof will be whether or not the council keeps the library open with trained staff, and a book fund".Fellow organiser Jill Allbrooke, of Justin Close in Brentford, said: "We were only expecting to need a small corner of the library, but so many people showed up and it got a lot bigger than we expected."Anna Ford said some really interesting things about the library. It all went very well".To follow the Hounslow Chronicle campaign to Save Our Libraries in the Hounslow Borough, visit www.hounslowchronicle.co.uk/libraries and follow @annajessicat on Twitter.

Jim Lawes ● 5562d

"Labour's 5 local election pledges were unanimously adopted by Borough Council and we intend to honour them within the boundaries of the current financial settlement."Councillor Mayne,It is a shame you had to spoil your previous postings with this disingenuous statement.  If anyone wishes to read the motion I proposed (I am guessing that this is what you are referring to), it can be read on the following link (agenda item 15) from a meeting in July 2010:http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=254&MId=5695&Ver=4I was very clear that what I supported (and wished well) were the pledges as they were understood and received by residents. Please see items 11 & 13 of the above link where questions exposed some of changes of a pledge pre-to-post election.Just in case, you try and claim that the above is not correct, I refer you to the minutes of the above meeting where comments made can be seen:http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=53588You could provide a link to substantiate your claim?  Or you could simply admit you are wrong?  There is a substantial difference between what went out in leaflets in your ward and other wards in the Borough to what are now Council Pledges.As the above indicates, the pledge that has caused most of us in the Conservative Group concern is that one you are responsible for.  There is a big difference between 100 police officers in each area (there are 5 areas in the Borough so 500 police in total) to 100 items of clothing for existing officers of the Council.

Cllr Mark Bowen ● 5562d

Ed,I thought that is was 60 Million over a period of 4 year's-15 Million per year, where did the 18 Million come from? would you give an honest answer to a pertinent question!! just how much did it cost we the tax payer to completely refurbish the Gymnasium's at Kew(Brentford)Leisure Center & Isleworth "Leisure Campus" whilst I realize that they can be money making concerns surely a Gymnasium is a luxury that only a few can afford, while a Library is there for everyone.To my mind a Gym is a luxury a library a necessity.You say that it is unfair to penalize local people but!! is that not what the Council proposes to do by closing our Libraries.Out of curiosity are you prepared to tell us how much the incentive is being offered by the Government to aid us in the Council Tax Freeze, you didn't say? also just how much will it cost us for the more specific library consultation can you not work on the previous consultation, thus saving money. You also mention a cutback on purchasing book's and yet when I wanted to donate 50 new book's on a regular basis it was blatantly refused because of lack of storage space.Why??? has Brentford not been refurbished is it because English Heritage will become involved as it should, we only have to look at the disgrace of Brentford Bath's which was another donation to see what would happen to our lovely library left in the council's hand's. Shame on you all.You want to save money just look at the wastage around you,I live in Beech Avenue we are now going into the 4th week of scaffolding looking like a fortress on a house 4 door's up from me and nary a workman has been around, we have to pay for the use of this scaffolding do we not-how much has it cost do you not see this kind of money loss happens on a daily basis over the borough.Think of how much money could be saved by ensuring that job's contracted out were done on a penalty clause, they do not complete on time they get penalized.

Dawn Hardy ● 5562d

If the Council were overwhelmed by getting 4000+ returned questionnaires out of a possible 95,000 (regarding where the cuts should be), they will be mighty surprised by the protests about closing Brentford Library.These were well marshalled and stirred by Hazel,Jill and not forgetting Dawn Hardy and others. To have a hundred plus turn out on Saturday, together with Anna Ford and others, to get the BBC and ITN news teams there too is no mean feat. Great stuff.  But the Labour Council have been thinking of cuttng down on the cost of having 11 Libraries in the Borough to save money. They were perhaps thinking of the Brentford,Isleworth,Osterley and Heston group and thinking of giving one the chop? Have they really withdrawn the threat? Do they know how to save £18,000,000 out of their £600,000,000 annual expenditure?The previous Conservative Administration had saved tonnes of dosh with the help of Consultants and Officers and using their expertise. Has their onward plans been aborted, having been kicked out? We don't know?I have heard from a senior Conservative Councillor this weekend that the "Officers" at the Civic Centre"(Heads of Departments presumably) have recently "come up with" lots of suggestions for saving money.Is this so? Are these to be studied and adopted? How come Brentford's Councillors have not volunteered information on this Website?Was the protest thus unnecessary? Were the local Councillors just chuckling at what fright they had perhaps..unnecessarily caused? What did they say at Saturday's protest? (I'd didn't arrive till later in the day due to illness). Was it to get in front of the cameras?The Councillors were certainly brave to show up perhaps!Thanks again to Hazel, Jill and Dawn and others. What next batch of residents will the Council be frightening when they have got potential savings sitting there just under their noses and which their eyes and wisdom can't see.

Jim Lawes ● 5563d

Good posting Ed, some fair points there.My own concern is though is that in a time of financial hardship it is the community-focused activities and services, rather than those services that require dependency on a one-to-one level,  that are going to present an appealing option to this administration when hard choices have to be made.The problem with closing libraries and community buildings, and even to some extent with abolishing area committees, is that they are unlikely ever to be replaced.  In the case of libraries and community buildings there will be structural deterioration as well as issues surrounding employment and training, and in the case of area committees it would require a lot of political resolve (or a power struggle within the Labour Party as was previously the case!) for these to be reinstated at a later date.It is my fear that an administration that leans towards and authoritarian view of local life will instinctively favour "remedies" in which community participation is a casualty.By the way, you may be aware that there was a large body of opinion within the Conservative Group during the last administration that was in favour of abolishing area committees and at least one councillor has openly stated that this would have happened had her party not been in coalition with the ICG.  The driver for this of course, as is so often the case, was financial rather than ideological.You will understand therefore why in terms of Civic Centre politics we are feeling a little friendless right now.

Phil Andrews ● 5563d

Steve and NeilTo clarify, the Labour Council does NOT want any libraries to close.The council is being forced to make £18m savings in our next budget because of the cuts in our central government funding. This amounts to roughly 25% of our budget over the next 4 years. So we will have to make £18m of savings the year after and approximately £12m in each of the 2 years after that.We therefore had no choice but to consult on every option available to achieve this £18m in time for the Council budget setting in March. Local residents clearly do not want libraries to close so we are exploring possibilities to keep them open. See the quote from the Council website below:"The public response to libraries was also positive, with 57% of residents wanting to retain all the sites. As a result of the public budget consultation, Hounslow Council has proposed that immediate savings can be delivered by deferring some book purchases, minimising the risk of library closure. In the meantime, a more specific library consultation is underway which will inform the longer term strategy."Some on this thread have suggested a "small" increase in Council tax to fund services. But the Tory-Lib Dem coalition are offering financial incentives for Councils to keep Council Tax frozen or reduced. So a small increase in Council tax would actually make the Council's financial situation worse. This is not to mention the fact that it is unfair to penalise local residents by raising Council tax in times of financial hardship.

Ed Mayne ● 5563d

Our son's popped in for breakfast this morning, I asked them why? Isleworth Library was still being worked on, being that it was up for closure. "You are silly Mum" they both retorted the Library was finished some time ago, they have refurbished the Gymnasium replacing every piece of equipment with new it's fantastic!!! they are working on the Swimming Pool now.Vanessa stated in her thread yesterday that as there were hard times some thing's had to go, well!! to my reckoning a Gymnasium is a luxury whilst a Library is a necessity so why! were we not given the choice-the Library or the Gym. The fee I am given to understand was between 37 pounds per month probably more per month now,where does this money go. I cannot believe that I was so stupid not to have realized that a big furore about our Libraries took away the expenditure that was being swallowed up by the Leisure Centers, incidentally did not JLS do the refurbishment for both the Libraries and the Leisure Centers. The money that was spent on new equipment for both Gymnasium's(Isleworth & Kew) would have been better spent on our Libraries negating the necessity of our petitions.It would seem that the people of Brentford do not count, however on the signatures to add to the on-line petition now standing at 535 signatures, the 4 street's that I have visited so far asking for signatures to the Save the Brentford Library has given an additional 331, in total thatgives us 866 obviously still more are needed. People do care and given the chance they will voice there protest.We as a community do not need to be told that there is no money in the coffer's when a Gymnasium comes before a Library.

Dawn Hardy ● 5566d

Mary You are absolutely correct. Many thanks for the link to the papers for the Council meeting 8th Feb.I'm encouraged to see that there is an intention to have a library strategy drawn up - would be fascinated to read the guidelines for this and to generally know more about it.I've done a quick skim through and picked out some of the items relevant to libraries, below.Hazelhttp://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/mgConvert2PDF.aspx?ID=56946Executive – 8 February 20112011/12 REVENUE BUDGET – COUNCIL SAVINGS PACKAGELibraries (ENV15, 18-24)In response to comments made during consultation, it is proposed thatdecisions to close any libraries is delayed until the library strategy iscomplete. Savings for 2011/12 can be delivered by deferring some bookpurchases in the mean time.APPENDIX A2011/12 REVENUE BUDGET – COUNCIL SAVINGS PACKAGESignificant library “savings” envisaged under Environment see Page 6  of this document on the website - table so cannot copy and paste here.Public consultation on Budget proposals for 2011/12 - Budget consultation results  PDF 67 KBAppendix_A_v6, item 5.  PDF 128 KB 54% of people agreed or strongly agreed with delaying further capital investment in the library improvement programme (ENV 4) and 74% of people with ENV 5, to recover the cost of one council leasehold property through its sale.The options relating to libraries were not supported by 57% of residents who provided a response to the proposal (ENV 15,18,24). 15% of people were unsure.

Hazel Dakers ● 5568d

After nearly 7,000 residents offered their views on what services they valued the most in the public budget consultation, Hounslow Council has announced it intends to minimise cuts to front-line services.The Council's Executive has put forward revised plans to ensure youth centre activities in Hanworth, Hogarth, Southville and the Hub, will remain open and fully functional, with scaled down savings taken from administrative roles instead.Street cleansing services will also be retained after the people of the borough declared how much they value them and with 58 per cent disagreeing with the proposals to reduce levels.Unsuprisingly, the public response to keeping the borough's libraries open was also positive, with 57 per cent wanting to keep all sites.The council instead propose to save by deferring some book purchases. In the meantime a more specific library consultation is underway which will decide the longer term strategy.The consultation offered the people of Hounslow the opportunity to share their views on the council services they felt needed saving the most after central government cut funding to the borough by £60m over four years.Following the results the Executive have also recommended that cuts to community halls should be delayed. This will allow detailed options for transferring the halls to community groups to be developed.The full list of proposals, including the revised options, will be put forward to the meeting of executive members on February, 8, at the Civic Centre, with the final budget decision being made by all councillors on March 1.Councillor Jagdish Sharma, leader of Hounslow Council said: The near 7,000 responses we received were vital in helping us to make the tough choices about where we can save money after central government cut s60 million from our budget over the next four years."The strong responses offered about a number of the necessary savings proposals have shown us areas where our residents simply dont want to see cuts or a reduction in services. We are committed to listening to the people of Hounslow and making sure your views are heard and these services are protected as much as possible.  I wish we didnt have to make these cuts to services, but the response we have received from residents has been staggering. I would like to thank each and every person who returned the form and let you know your views have been heard and we are trying our hardest to protect the services which clearly matter to you.  We are committed to protecting the most vulnerable residents in Hounslow, and with the publics help I believe we can do this, despite the huge cuts to government funding we are faced with.

Jim Lawes ● 5568d

Dawn, the money for refurbishments was given to Laing in 2009, well before the change of government and its policies that have enforced these massive budget cuts. Here's an article from June 2009 http://www.richmondandtwickenhamtimes.co.uk/news/4461905.__5m_investment_to_upgrade_Hounslow_s_libraries/"Hounslow Council is pumping more than £5m into libraries after it emerged many have leaky roofs, asbestos and faulty lifts. Councillors agreed to give contractor John Laing Integrated Services (JLIS) the lump sum to transform Chiswick, Osterley, Heston, Bedfont, Cranford and Brentford libraries. The three-stage plan will provide essential maintenance for some libraries which have not seen any council cash for almost a decade."and a link to JLIS website http://www.laing.com/projects/hounslow_parks_leisure.html"JLIS are committed to making improvements to all the services and facilities under our management and increase participation in the activities they offer, the ultimate aim being to raise the profile of libraries, parks, arts and heritage services in Hounslow. A £5.7 million library capital investment programme will be delivered during 2009/2010 that will refurbish and refresh the boroughs libraries. The delivery of our service will maximise community benefits and address community issues around social inclusion/exclusion, access to opportunities, education, learning and development, health and well-being, community safety, community cohesion and engagement. We will utilise the parks, libraries, theatre, museum and artist studios as a focus for community activity and engagement. The contract for the parks is for 10 years and 15 years for the libraries. Therefore, we have adopted a planned approach in agreement with elected members, officers and friends groups to bring about short, medium and long term measures to improve customer service and satisfaction."

Mary Blyth ● 5574d

And the letter stated, which I think is a standard "wanker" response;Dear Mr Silver,RE: Your Request for Information (FOI/EIR)- Brentford LibraryI acknowledge receipt of your FOI request by e-mail on 24- Jan- 11.Further information about how we deal with FOI requests can be found atwww.hounslow.gov.uk. Further information can also be found at www.ico.org.uk.Your request will be dealt with by Environment and we have recorded your requestas being about Brentford Library (Environment, Leisure). Your FOI reference numberis 001330.We are required to respond to FOI requests within 20 working days. You shouldreceive a reply no later than 21- Feb- 11.If we are unable to give you a full reply by 21- Feb- 11 we will write to you andexplain why.We have a duty to disclose all information unless an exemption applies. There areseven absolute and sixteen qualified exemptions.Should we decide that an exemption and/or the public interest test applies to theinformation you have requested, we will inform you of this within the 20 working daysand provide you with particulars of the relevant exception and/or our reasons forapplying the public interest test and explain why we have drawn this conclusion.We will advise you of any cost implications, depending on the nature of the requestand the time taken to locate and retrieve the information.If you have not received a response within 20 working days from the date of receiptof your request, or you feel that we have not dealt properly with your request forinformation, please contact the FOI Review Officer, Environment, Civic Centre,Lampton Road, Hounslow, TW3 4DN or email FOI@hounslow.gov.uk.Should you need to contact the department about this matter please quote the abovereference number.Yours sincerely,Customer Services OfficerEnvironment Department

Ian Silver ● 5574d

What makes me uneasy Vanessa is the indecent haste with which these proposals have emerged when measured against the negligible savings involved.A few weeks ago I attended a meeting at Isleworth Public Hall which was addressed by Hamish Pringle (Head of Cultural and Leisure Services at LBH) and attended by two of the Isleworth ward councillors.It transpires that the saving to be achieved from offloading the community halls around the borough is in the region of £288k.  Divide that by five community halls and we are talking about £57k or so for Isleworth.  Per year.That is the saving to be made if LBH were to wash its hands of IPH completely, offering no support to the local community during the transition period.  It seems to be accepted that some support will be needed, so that figure of £57k can be reduced to, what, £20k?  And that is the "saving" that is driving the current administration to risk losing such an excellent local facility?  If that is so we must be really highly thought of at Lampton Road these days.We in the ICG are not convinced that savings cannot still be made within the Civic Centre bureaucracy.  The Chief Executive's Department still commands a significant slice of the cake and next to nothing has been offered up from Finance.  Of course it suits chief officers to offer up savings that have no negative impact on their own empires but to what extent are Lead Members challenging them?Why is the local community being blackmailed into submission by emotive talk of it being a straight choice between care services and community facilities, with no mention whatsoever of any possible further savings to be made in the back offices?  No, as a lay member of the public I cannot offer any costed proposals, but neither has anybody shown me any evidence to suggest that chief officers have been sufficiently challenged.We have ward councillors who cannot speak up for local people due to the party system.  I make no criticism of them as individuals, indeed my opinion of them has grown considerably since they were first elected, but councillors are supposed to provide community leadership and ours are effectively excluded from doing so because if the decision of the Labour Group is to close libraries then they will need to support this position.  If this had happened last year we would simply have said "no", and it would have been done with.  Again, I challenge you to tell me that isn't so.Destroy the community's ability to meet and to organise and you destroy any opportunity it has to defend itself in the future.  I dare say I am not the first person that this thought will have occurred to.

Phil Andrews ● 5575d

Jessica,I have asked Councillor's on many occasion's the big question of WHY??? did the Council make these ludicrous deals with both Liang and Fusion for a period of 25 Year's without consulting we the community,no answer to the question but fobbed off to a web site that I have read diligently however there is no valid reason given for doing our community down.Outsourcing can be advantageous in some circumstances but surely you do not give business's the whole cream cake and more without censure or conrol for such a long time.Fusion cost we as a community approximately 1 Million Pounds a year to run our Leisure Centres bear in mind that the cost of refurbing is not included, Liang are not far behind in fact they make considerably more with the refurbishment's and then close the Libraries. Brentford Library was as you know donated to the People of Brentford by Mr.Carnegie in 1903 in 1913 a stipulation was introduced in the codicil that towns had to undertake to fund the Libraries providing it with book's ect from the Rates as they were back then. Surely as this was a gift to we the people of Brentford they cannot do this, I have lived in Brentford all my life and the Library was always a kind of sanctuary, the shelves alway's overloaded until a couple of year's back, I even embarrassed the poor women behind the desk a few month's back by complaining that the shelves were empty, I offered 50 Brand New Book's that were turned down because there was nowhere to store them although there was plenty of room on the shelves. Of course she was unaware that Liang was thinking of closing our Library. Surely there has to be a legality to break such a stupid contract that benefit's only Liang and Fusion. How many people were made redundant by the Council so that they could outsource.Councillor's you have the ideal opportunity to explain to us, WHAT! benefit did you think it would be to we the people that your suppositious representation did Our Libraries are no longer a comfort zone they are utilitarian, we the people continue to pay out and at the end of the day all we get for it-is closure of a Library that has been a landmark in Brentford for over 100 Year's. SHAME ON ALL COUNCILLOR'S WHO TOOK PART IN THIS DEBACLE!

Dawn Hardy ● 5577d

RobinLabour supporters who want to keep the libraries open are going to blame the Conservative-led government and its programme of sweeping cuts for the proposed closures.  Conservative supporters are going to blame the Labour council whose decision it is to make.  In the meantime there is a very real danger that we are going to lose our libraries.As a resident I would like to see a united campaign involving as many people as we can gather.  To achieve that we will need to agree to differ as to who is to blame and encourage the support of every member of the community.The issue here is not how many members of the red tribe will triumph over members of the blue tribe at an election that is more than three years away.  It is whether our libraries will stay open or close in the very near future.I am honestly not looking for a political argument with you (personally I don't necessarily disagree with you), but I do find it slightly offensive that a person who lives in another borough and who will not be affected by library closures in Brentford or Isleworth should want to cheapen what is a very serious debate with silly point scoring or to weaken the campaign by trying to divide it along tribal lines.  Just what is in it for you to undermine the unity of a campaign to save library facilities in a borough in which you do not even live?The object of the exercise is solely to try to persuade the council that closing libraries is not a good idea irrespective of the financial pressures that it is most certainly under.If you want to help Robin then you will be most welcome to come along and lend your weight to the campaign.  If not, could you not please just show a little sensitivity to what is an issue of real concern to people who actually live here?Thank you.

Phil Andrews ● 5579d

So glad we now understand each other's view point, Holly.For library users working normal hours, Saturday is an important day. It is also the most popular day for weddings. As mentioned previously, the council can only claim use of the upstairs room a very few days a year as it is rented by an NGO. Years ago when this arrangement started it was because the council claimed it could not afford to install the legally required lift for the disabled (in public buildings).Personally I think the position and architectural period of the Octagon Room would command a much higher rent than Parr's Brentford Library, charming though it is. You then have to subtract admin,caretaking costs, cleaning,etc before and after and consider whether indeed it would make a significant contribution to the savings required from the library service - especially with only the entrance hall likely to be available.I hope readers of this thread have picked up the following:1.Topic: E-petiition Save Brentford Library      Posted by: RUTH GARNER Date/Time: 17/01/11 20:03:00  Please sign the e-petition to save Brentford Librarygo to http://petitions.hounslow.gov.uk/BrentfordLibrary/Please encourage others to sign up quickly! 2.Topic: Read-in at Brentford Library      Posted by: Jill Allbrooke Date/Time: 18/01/11 14:47:00  There are going to be "read-ins" at threatened public libraries around the country on Saturday 5 February. Would anyone care to join me in a read-in at Brentford Library?

Hazel Dakers ● 5581d

The savings the council is being called upon to make are huge and no administration could undertake this and come out smelling of roses.However what is important to understand is the process through which these proposed savings find their way to the council chamber.As I have pointed out before lead members ask their chief officers to draw up a list of proposals and they then have to take it on trust that every available option has been placed before them.Working on the principle that turkeys do not vote for Christmas, there are likely to be omissions in the form of potential departmental savings that the chief officers do not wish to make.  It is the duty of the lead member to try to identify these hidden potential savings and to add them to the shopping list.With this administration and some of its lead members being new to the game it is likely that the chief officers will try it on while they have the chance.  Slashing library services, community halls and area committees do not inflict any pain on chief officers who will not care too much either about the end user or about the political consequences for the administration.I would like to think that the apparent enthusiasm for this assault on community facilities is due to officer influence rather than ideological zeal on the part of the administration, and if this is indeed the case I would implore our elected members to speak up for residents who want to keep libraries open and local democracy alive.

Phil Andrews ● 5581d

It was perfectly obvious that after 4 years of maintaining council tax at its existing levels, a fifth such year promised that services would slide and the users of those services suffer. A modest increase in Council Tax after holding it for several years, could have saved a great many services and prevented the quality of life for Hounslow residents from deteriorating. Traditionally the most popular local services in the UK have been rubbish collection and libraries.Originally funded by a Penny Rate they were created to primarily benefit those for whom times were hard. Often they grew out of Working Men's Institutes. There are plenty of people for whom this hardship is real now and yet public libraries are seen as easy prey by local politicians seeking to hold down Council Tax despite the central government cutbacks. This is irresponsible of Hounslow Council. Google will lead the searcher to a plethora of unmonitored sites on most topics sought. Any fool can put up a website purporting to inform on any topic whether or not the site owner has knowledge or not. By contrast a public library with a professionally selected range of stock will have chosen their books and other information media to take into account the standing of the authors and editors ie for their credibility. I expanded my range of reading from the ages of about 10-14 with the guidance of the local Children's Librarian. My own children were guided in their early project homeworks by a Children's Librarian. Sadly, such posts rarely exist now. Our public libraries have been systematically weakened over the last 20 years or so. Whereas every branch would have a professionally qualified librarian in charge and a similarly qualified children's librarian focusing on the children's library, now it is rare for such qualified staff to be based in branches. Library managers may come from any background. When the users are lucky, their branch staff may have taken paraprofessional qualifications such as NVQs and the requisite training. Sadly this is all too rare. Professional posts have dwindled to those of managers of the overall service usually based at the Central Library or a sub headquarters. What has Hounslow done about this? In past downturns, the unemployed have been able to check the vacancies advertisements in newspapers at the local library. People of all ages have used the library as a starting point for planning a career or a new career. Aspirant entrepreneurs have made their first steps in research towards starting up businesses at the local library. Children have been encouraged to read for fun - not all of whom would have the money for books at home. Older people are kept young in spirit by researching the history of their families or their localities in the Local Studies Library - so reducing the local GPs lists! People with disabilities or small children for whom travel is difficult have been able to walk to their local branch - in cities at any rate. Is there really no particular need for these activities now? Is it surprising that the consultation chart entitled stock transactions indicate low demand for Local Studies? Two sites, one kept open largely by volunteers twice a week. The other at the Central Library manned by a library assistant. The two departments in the care of a single qualified and paid  local studies librarian. Older people tend to use Local Studies and many older people need their library facilities an easy walk from home - like mothers with young children. Is it surprising that Felthan, Hounslow and Chiswick fare well in the charts? They have always been supplied with greater resources than any of the other libraries. Time to give the others a decent share of resources and just see how the charts change! However, not one of these does as well as Brentford - in terms of overall satisfaction. Brentford tops them all yet remains on the list threatened with closure. Gone are the days when local councillors like Thomas Layton were proud to create high quality and much needed services to the community. Our current councillors should feel shame for so recklessly destroying services that have taken 100 years and more to develop. Bring back that Penny Rate (or its modern equivalent) properly ring-fenced to maintain our public libraries! Hazel Dakers

Hazel Dakers ● 5586d