Forum Topic

Brentford Library - Freedom of Information Request

Here is the reply from the council in response to a request for details of the J. Laing contract and also details of the accounts of Brentford Library..........not particularly enlightening (unsurprisingly !!!)Environment Directorate Libraries (Environment Department, Leisure & Cultural Services)Civic CentreLampton RoadHounslow TW3 4DNFOI/EIR reference 001330 Date 21 February 2011Dear Mr Silver, RE: Your Request for Information (FOI/EIR)-Brentford LibraryI am writing to provide you with the information you requested under FOI that was received by e-mail on 24- Jan- 11.  Your request has been dealt with by Environment and we have recorded your request as being about Brentford Library (Environment, Leisure). Your FOI reference number is 001330.The information you requested was to get a breakdown of the running costs of the Brentford Library over a year? Are accounts published? Along with, what is the contractual situation with Laing’s if the library were to be closed?In answer to your questions the breakdown of the individual library costs are commercially sensitive.If the libraries were to close there is provision within the contract for this to occur. We would be required to compensate John Laing under the contract. This may include loss of profit and redundancy costs. This is commercially sensitive information and can not be disclosed and is exempt under Section 43 of the Freedom of Information Act.Any information that has been provided to you pursuant to your request may be utilised for your own use, including for non-commercial research purposes. The information may also be used for purpose of news reporting. However, any other type of re-us, for example, by publishing information, using it for marketing or issuing copies to the public will require the permission of the copyright owner, namely the London Borough of Hounslow.Should you feel that I have not dealt with your request appropriately or failed to take action within a reasonable timescale you are entitled to ask for a review to be undertaken by any of the following methods:By post to : FOI Review Officer Environment Civic Centre Lampton RoadHounslowTW3 4DNBy email : FOI@hounslow.gov.ukShould you remain dissatisfied following a formal review under the complaints procedure you have the right to complain to the Information Commissioner under Section 50 of the Freedom of Information Act 2000. The contact details for the Information Commissioner are as follows:Information Commissioners OfficeWycliffe HouseWater LaneWilmslowCheshireSK9 5AFFax 01625 524 510DX 20819Web www.ico.org.ukThe Information Commissioner has also produced a guide “Your Right to Know; How to complain” which can be downloaded from www.ico.org.uk.Yours sincerely,Tim DouglasService Improvement ManagerLeisure & Cultural ServicesEnvironment Department

Ian Silver ● 5282d14 Comments

Yes I would suggest that a formal complaint is made against The Director of Environmental Services for refusing to disclose this information.

Steve Taylor ● 5277d

Many thanks Pauline,It's very precise and gives a much better understanding of the issue, from this it would appear that the excuse of commercial sensitivity is to save the council embarrassment at relating to us the actual costing of running our library.In all probability a minor amount.

Dawn Hardy ● 5278d

Well worth making a formal complaint and if necessary going to the Information Commissioner after all it is council tax payers money that they are giving to Laings. ICO guidance says that Section 43 is a qualified exemption which is subject to the public interest test, as set out in section 2 of the Act. i.e "Where a public authority is satisfied that the information requested is a trade secret or that its release would prejudice someone’s commercial interests, it can only refuse to provide the information if it is satisfied that the public interest in withholding the information outweighs the public interest in disclosing it. The bias is in favour of disclosure and there will be occasions where information is released even though it is a trade secret or is likely to prejudice someone’s commercial interest.Generally speaking, the public interest is served where access to the information would;• further the understanding of, and participation in the debate of issues of the day;• facilitate the accountability and transparency of public authorities for decisions taken by them;• facilitate accountability and transparency in the spending of public money;• allow individuals to understand decisions made by public authorities affecting their lives and, in some cases, assist individuals in challenging those decisions;• bring to light information affecting public safety." Difficult to see how the public interest could be best served by allowing this exemption  Commercial sensitivity alone isn't a defence - especially as the contract runs for a number of years.

Pauline Compton ● 5278d

Exactly right Hazel,Mr Silver hasn't gotten back yet, the dodge is operative in the commercially sensative phrase!!

Dawn Hardy ● 5278d

Don't hesitate to follow up with the Information Commissioner. This was the weakness in the Act. Having grandly introduced it Blair then diluted it. Sometimes there is good reason to say that the financial details of a contract are commercially sensitive - competition in the future etc. However sometimes this is just a dodge. I'd have thought as you are only asking for the costs of running one library and not the whole contract there was a chance of pushing for an answer.

Hazel Dakers ● 5278d

I really cannot accept or agree with that, if you have a position of power irrespective of whether you are the majority or not, then you have to accept responsibility to the community to do your utmost for them. Hypothetically, if my team had been out voted and I was appalled at the outcome, then an obvious word to the media-especially after the CIP Fiasco and the cost to the Borough, It would have made the community aware and the proposal would have been re-thought. That is what I mean by accountability, anyone who accepts an authoritative position cannot hang back from a decision when it is not in the best interest of the people that you represent. Why stand for the position if you are going to be led by the nose, Councilor's have to stand up and be counted they are voted in by us simply because we trust them to make a difference for us, to do there best for us,to make their objection's heard loudly, not to turn a cheek and then blame the opposition.This information that you keep coming up with, surely it had to have to do with CIP, anyone with a modicum of common sense should have realized at the inception of a 10 year tenure that problem's would  occur and they should have learnt by CIP going bankrupt. You would have, I would have,  unfortunately they didn't consequently they gave away our Libraries yet again this time for a period of 15 years?. What on earth were they thinking!!!.

Dawn Hardy ● 5280d

Why would the opposition object to this expenditure - if all they had was the same information that the people in charge were given? Nice try about "accountability has to be accepted by all" - the people with the majority have to accept the responsibility, that's the way it works.

Vanessa Smith ● 5280d

But!! surely they should have been wary! very wary about getting in to deep yet again especially after the CIP fiasco, how much did that cost we the Council Tax Payer. I am aware that it was Tory/ICG however where were Labour/Lib-Dem's objection's, you know as well as I Vanessa that "there are more than one way to skin a cat" accountability must be accepted by all parties.

Dawn Hardy ● 5280d

The 'previous administration' of course was the Tory-ICG coalition. I don't know how many times I have to say this -but how could any council of whatever political persuasion see into the future and see what's coming? Decisons can only be made on what information is known at that time, I doubt it has anything to do with incompetence - much as I might like to agree with that!

Vanessa Smith ● 5280d

How is it possible that FOI can be used to prohibit we the community to know just how much this ridiculous deal would cost us if the contract was broken. They use the excuse of the information being commercially sensitive, the real reason would be our outrage at knowing just how incompetent all the previous administration were for allowing such a deal to come to fruition in the first instance. So at the end of the day it is we the community who will once again be the loser's. Mr Silver are you going to appeal against this decision because it really does need to be known just how much of our Council Tax is to be wasted whilst making J Laing richer!!!

Dawn Hardy ● 5280d

Write to the Borough solicitor for clarification

Steve Taylor ● 5281d

I would be interested to see a legal definition of "commercially sensitive".  There must be specific conditions under which a piece of information is deemed to be commercially sensitive, surely it cannot be used as a catch-all for fending off awkward questions?

Phil Andrews ● 5281d

It beats me!I'd have thought it broke down into fairly basic elements:WagesBusiness rate perhapsBooks/papersMaintenanceGasElectricityBig commercial secret !!Water

Ian Silver ● 5282d

Democracy in action!!!! what is commercially sensitive about the running costs of a library?

Chris Dakers ● 5282d