Forum Topic

Jon Baker · 08/16/2011 23:01:00

new.BrentfordTW8.com Communtity Forum Topic posting

Ealing Road/ High Street beware

Please take care at this new layout. I've seen drivers headed for Kew Bridge from Brentford driving though a red light when the drivers start turning left onto Ealing Road. There's obviously something wrong with the set up. I've emailed the Council about this but want as many people to know as possible.We've waited through months of roadworks to get this new system and I don't really understand what we've got out of it. It seems worse than the old one - there's no filter out of Ealing Road any more. I hate to think how much we've had to pay for all this - I thought the Council had no money?

Jon Baker ● 5558d24 Comments

I emailed Chris C-F about this yesterday but he's on holiday till tomorrow. If anyone will take any notice at the council, it'll be him.

Susan Kelly ● 5558d

So that's three of us who've already emailed Chris !. As I said on the other thread I think the new layout of the Ealing Road junction is a great improvement, but the sequencing/phasing of lights isn't, and that outweighs the improvements.I originally thought the sequencing/phasing might be part of some daft TfL led plan to 'minimise conflict' by getting rid of filter lanes at some junctions, but clearly not given how drivers can turn left into Ealing Road at the same time as drivers coming out of Ealing Road can turn left or right.

Adam Beamish ● 5558d

I thought Jon's post actually raises a point I have argued and pondered over many years, namely that of what planet traffic engineers inhabit - 'cos it sure ain't planet Earth. If anyone can ever figure out how their minds work please do let us all know. The money may well have come from TfL and not necessarily the council direct, although as we pay a precept through our council tax - it's all our money in the end. There was a small alteration at the junction of Grove Road in Hounslow with Bell Rd., took forever to do a miniscule job, and has, if anything, made things more awkward for vehicles - go figure!

Vanessa Smith ● 5557d

The filter arrow for heading straight lightens, when it shouldnt as the turn left one is red, just an issue for Siemens i think who are responsible.

Martin Kelly ● 5557d

The lack of knowledge of the highway code in this thread is astounding. Nothing wrong with the new lights, and a shame that the same cannot be said of some of the drivers using them.

Ian Fillingham ● 5557d

Yes you are right that drivers are ignoring a red light but most drivers have a sense of self-preservation and something about the layout is misleading them. Had a pretty quick answer to my email last night to the Director of the Environment at Hounslow, timed at 9.15 this morning from the Traffic people at Hounslow which says: -‘This scheme has been implemented by our Transport team, the Head of which, Chris Calvi-Freeman, is currently on leave. However, in his absence, we have already picked up the issue that you have highlighted, namely when the green arrow appears for left turning traffic into Ealing Road, some eastbound drivers start to move off ahead, despite the full red signal for their movement. We have already implemented a small change to the signal timings that has improved the situation and we are continuing to monitor the junction. Thank you for raising this issue with us.’I’m glad they’ve picked this up but why has something that was unsafe been designed? Presumably our Councillors must have agreed to this scheme and the money it’s cost us so perhaps they could explain what the purpose of the scheme is and how the council could afford it when all we hear about is cuts in services!

Jon Baker ● 5557d

Well I knew the arrangement of independent signals for left turning and straight on traffic isn't unusual, although I'll admit that most junctions where it is used have a concrete island separating the relevant lanes. I've finally racked my brains enough to recall one junction where no separation is present, it's in my home city of Nottingham. Bizarrely it suffered the opposite problem to this junction, namely that when the left arrow turned green often nobody moved because of the red light for the straight on traffic, leading to irate horn tooting several vehicles back in the left hand lane.

Ian Fillingham ● 5557d

Ian, when Ealing Road Southbound get a green light as well as High Street Brentford Eastbound, thats a conflicting pass of traffic..nothing to do with the highway code, its a programme error.

Martin Kelly ● 5557d

Ian, I found your earlier comment quite insulting and rather stupid. None of us on this thread have suggested that we don't know the Highway Code, but have pointed out how other drivers less respectful of the Highway Code/other motorists might behave.The most dangerous potential conflict at the Ealing Road junction is fast moving traffic going straight across the junction on the A315 and slow moving traffic turning right from Ealing Road towards Brentford. The new phasing/lights increases the risk of an idiot seeing the green light for the left hand filter lane and trying to go straight on, straight into traffic turning right out of Ealing Road.The previous set-up minimised any risks - traffic turning left from the direction of Kew Bridge into Ealing Road wouldn't be hit by traffic coming from Brentford because the lights were at red. The left hand lane filter from Ealing Road was unlikely to abused by traffic turning right, and even if they did, given the McDonalds exit etc. nearby impact speeds would be considerably lower than someone now whizzing out of Brentford on the A315 and abusing the usually empty left hand filter lane to go straight on.Of course I agree that drivers shouldn't block the entrance/exit to McDonalds, nor should they drive through McDonalds car park or use the 'no exit' from McDonalds onto the A315, but the new set-up will increase the likelihood of other drivers doing so.It's nowt to do with the Highway Code, it's about a road junction where the new light phasing increases the risk of conflict as I explained above, and it's plain common sense. The fact that Hounslow's email seems to completely miss this point is quite 'scary' really.

Adam Beamish ● 5557d

Just to correct myself, the reference to turning left in the first line of my third paragraph is wrong, I meant turning right.Whilst I was typing my lengthy post I see Martin has far more succinctly echoed my comments, perhaps it will dawn on the Council too ?!.

Adam Beamish ● 5557d

Yes, but until now no post has suggested that has happened. Not surprising considering that there is no viewpoint that would allow someone to see both those signals simultaneously. The closest you can get to seeing both signals at the same time is if you have turned right out of Ealing Road and look behind you at the eastbound signal. I have been a passenger in a vehicle performing that turn that was almost hit by an eastbound car, and rather unsurprisingly the eastbound signal was red at the time.

Ian Fillingham ● 5557d

Ian, I have actually been guilty of beeping a car going Eastbound on High Street Brentford when the straight filter arrow was showing green and as we progressed a swift look to my right saw the Ealing Road southband traffic signal also showing green, its a small teething problem that no doubt be resolved.

Martin Kelly ● 5557d

According to Chris, changes have been made so that the junction is no longer at a full stop while pedestrians cross in all directions. Pedestrians now cross in sections, hence the loss of the left filter at the bottom of Ealing Rd.Quoting from his email:'The sequence is: Stage 1: Eastbound ahead and left turn, westbound ahead only. Stage 2: Eastbound ahead only, westbound ahead only, pedestrians cross Ealing Road. Stage 3: Westbound right turn only, pedestrians cross High Street on west side of junction and pedestrians cross High Street eastbound lane on east side of junction (outside MacDonald’s). Stage 4: Southbound left and right turn, eastbound left turn, pedestrians cross High Street westbound lanes on east side of junction. This is a four stage operation, however stages can be skipped or varied if the relevant pedestrian stages are not “called” (i.e. pedestrian push buttons are not pressed).'

Susan Kelly ● 5555d

There's already been two small collisions and a cyclist has come a cropper having been carved up by an HGV turning left into Ealing road...er.. the cyclist was me! Unhurt but one busted wheel. Thanks to the lady and gent who recovered my bike while I chased the blue Hino tipper who failed to stop and had no visible rear number plateThe problem is that the cycle lane marking is for ahead only and left turning traffic has to cross the lane but is unsure where. Drivers are looking out for cyclists but then cannot see the traffic signal. or vice versa.The junction looks a lot cleaner but does not work as well as it did. The biggest problem was a poorly sited island that made the bus overhang sweep the pavement.This does need sorting before a serious accident occurs

Anthony Waller ● 5554d

Chris told me he and some colleagues had been to look at the junction and were satisfied that it was all working as it should.I suggest you contact him (Pm him via this site: Chris Calvi-Freeman) and give him the details of your accident.

Susan Kelly ● 5554d

Had a reply from Mr Calvi-Freeman at the Council who seems to have been in charge of this work. He says he's on top of the problem with the traffic lights. He also said the the works had cost £780,000!!!!!!! (my exclamation marks.)I wonder how our Councillors can justify that amount of money when they say they haven't got any and are threatening libraries and day centres. And what improvement have we all got for our money?

Jon Baker ● 5553d

This picture is flying around in cyberspace..and clearly illustrates how things have changed!No traffic lights seemingly, and the old Red Lion Pub is in view before it was demolished and resited on the other side of Ealing Road where MacDonalds is now.

Jim Lawes ● 5552d

God, that pub looked grim before it closed. Weren't cars a funny shape back then?

Susan Kelly ● 5552d

There does seem to be longer queues in Ealing road but £780.000? Surely not? There does not seem to be much of a difference apart from it looking tidy and new. Brentfords Finest will soon, no doubt, remedy that.The picture is interesting, It must be around 1962 as that is a brand new Routemaster bus. They were only used on the 267 at that time. Trolleybus wires are still up. But the Concrete Utility lamposts are already in to replace the lamps on the trolley poles

Michael Brandt ● 5552d

£780,000 isn't a figure that surprises me for a project of that nature, when you consider all of the work that goes into getting a scheme through all the relevant approvals etc, forget the actual implementation of the scheme. Whether it's a good use of £780,000 is an entirely subjective matter !.I'm amused (in an sarcastic way) that my route to work (Brentford to Teddington via Busch Corner and Twickenham) is back to 'normal' after all of maybe 10 days without roadworks along the route, what with the temporary lights (presumably for TW works) on the bridge over the Brent/GU Canal, and now some tiny roadworks that are causing long queues on London Road just north of Isleworth.Talking of which, as I imagine Chris is reading - Chris the zebra crossing near the Six Bells pub should surely be 'closed down' whilst the roadworks are taking place on the bridge ? - the crossing is all of 20 metres from the temporary lights and if people cross there it causes chaos in terms of traffic emerging from the single lane carriageway where the temporary lights are. Presumably an oversight on someone's part as I know when a similar thing happened before at Ealing Road you quickly ensured the crossing was closed down ?. Thanks.

Adam Beamish ● 5542d

I did wonder if the bridge roadworks was tackling the gas mainleak that my nose usually detected on quiet still nights when cycling from Brentford to Isleworth. There were two fire extinguishers and a gas detection kit as I went past it today.I guess there will be more work on the bridge in the future as the cycling superhighway is implemented - one of the ideas being tossed around to make the carriageway wider to accommodate the bikes seems to be to remove a footway and build a separate additional pedestrian bridge.Incidentally I thought the new layout at the Ealing Road junction was great for bikes when I used it for the first time today. The central feeder lane going east and the wider carriageway avoiding the pinch-point with the traffic island going west both worked well. I suppose it will be 2013 before it gets painted blue.

Tim Henderson ● 5542d

Tim - glad to hear that it is better for cyclists. For £750,000, someone should see some improvements! I recently crossed the road from Watermans to McDonalds and it took two minutes to cross using the green men. It took so long the first time I did it that I went back and timed it. Two americans crossing with me the second time joked at the lenght of time and said they'd get better facilities in car loving America!!!

Jon Baker ● 5539d

The road surfaces were marked a week or so ago and it is much better now for cyclists as there is a better visual warning to larger vehicle users.But there is one almighty gaffe as anyone who has used the crossing from Macdonalds to Watermans/riverside.In the central reservation, the pedestrian crossing buttons are mounted on the wrong side! When one crosses they are too far away from you and no-one is bothering to use them, they are just chancing it with gaps or hoping for the best. They are positioned so you face away from the traffic in either direction.They should be positioned on the left not the far right.Most people cross like traffic, on the left anyway, but most people will also go to the nearest point of exit not the farthest. The boxes should have been mounted to the traffic signal poles and not remotely away from where pedestrians stand.

Michael Brandt ● 5539d