Forum Topic

Watermans Moving To Hounslow?

Anyone heard rumours that The Watermans is moving to Hounslow? We need to keep the Watermans in Brentford for the success of our new high street.

Simon Groves ● 4936d86 Comments

The plans showing the proposed redevelopment of Brentford/Watermans are available to be seen by the public at St Paul's Parish Centre, St Paul's Road, Brentford, TW8 0PN tomorrow, 19th, and on 20th and 21st.    See:-http://www.mybrentford.com/brentford2.0/latest#page-topfor opening times.We must all really fight to save Watermans and preferrably to keep it on its present site - on the 65 bus route bringing in our friends from Ealing and Richmond and with a free carpark for those of us not on a direct bus route.  Whatever happens it must not be moved to Hounslow where it will whither and die.

Jennifer Selig ● 4860d

The latest draft plans from Ballymore’s consultants detail extensive car parking occupying at least the first floor of the block between Morrisons and MSO boatyard – that area being an obvious choice, to avoid potential conflicts that arise from residential use in such proximity.That envisaged car parking provision will dwarf the rather cramped facility under Watermans at present, so a move would help rather than hinder in that respect.One could hope that the Council would consider upgrading the bus services once a re-vitalised town centre started humming.I’m afraid that Phil’s comment regarding council officers vs elected officials has too much truth for comfort; from my observations the set-up is all too familiar from the “Yes, Minister” series.

Nigel Moore ● 4865d

I see no reason to discontinue the petition.  There remain lots of missing pieces to the jigsaw - the silence of the usually vocal Brentford councillors, the small matter of the original plans, the significant delay before any kind of statement was forthcoming in such a way that suggests some initial uncertainty.  Continuing with the petition until it has run its course will create a permanent reminder of the strength of feeling that exists should circumstances change.My own experience of some senior officers at LBH and at the Environment department in particular tells me that if a proposal for exporting Watermans to a different part of the borough is favoured they will not allow a little thing like the Leader of the Council ruling it out to deter them.  Instead the idea will be reintroduced at suitable intervals, supported each time by progressively more "unanswerable" logistics.We should continue to build the petition and then bank it as an insurance policy.  The threat to our community organisations and infrastructure never goes away, it just moves its focus from one area to another until a suitably soft target suggests itself.

Phil Andrews ● 4865d

I'm nowhere near 70 but I don't live near any of the bus routes. At the moment, I have a ten-minute drive to Waterman's. If there's no parking, then I'm suddenly looking at a 20-minute walk to the 65 bus, followed by an incalculable wait for a bus; same to come home. It's a completely different scenario and my 5-6 visits to the centre every month are gone in favour of waiting for the DVD. Another customer lost.

Susan Kelly ● 4866d

Quite true.If it goes into the High Street shopping area, it will be competing for all too few car parking spaces and lose the key sole bus link from Richmond Kew and Ealing.One has only visit Watermans on an afternoon to see how many car loads of senior citizens turn up. It's often bringing people who are not up to the bus and get a lift from friends.This is why so many elderly end up being the victims of CPZs getting cut off from the diminishing peer group who still have good mobility as they are afraid of a ticket they cannot afford and often can't afford visitors permits.This is why all over 70's should have a free parking permit and all over 70 non car owning residents should have visitors vouchers free.It's all these little normal things that seem to be incomprehensible to planners, developers and politicians .

Anthony Waller ● 4866d

My worry about a move is that it would lose its car park in the process, as I do not live on any of the bus routes that pass it.

Susan Kelly ● 4866d

The suggestion made on the website to which I referred previously is that Watermans might benefit - as would Brentford High Street - were it to move to the new development South of the High Street ie as far West roughly as the Magistrates Court but to the South behind the current shops, near the water.This confusingly is in Syon Ward - as is a large chunk of Brentford.

Hazel Dakers ● 4866d

So it used to begin somewhere near the canal bridge and ends at Busch corner I take it? No one is suggesting Waterman's be moved to there.

Keith Iddon ● 4866d

Syon is or was a hamlet in it's own right. Between Brentford and Isleworth.It has a council estate that is now assigned as part of Brentford but Brentford town ends before the Duke's Estate which ran up as far as the A4 and beyond at one time.

Michael Brandt ● 4866d

Fair points Andrew and I would be happy if they left it where it is or moved it to the new development should it eveer happen.How is Syon not a part of Brentford? It is in the same way that Half Acre is surely.

Keith Iddon ● 4866d

Watermans should be left exactly where it is.There is no such thin as Brentford Town centre. It is a through town.Syon is not Brentford.It has a car park, is on 3 bus routes including the only north south bus service which accesses Ealing and Kew Richmond and Kingston, many regulars come from here and very few come from Hounslow even though it's on a direct bus routeIt is directly connected to 3 stations.Nowhere else in the area offers this range of access and without it the facility will not be supported.The site should be ringfenced and improved.It does a lot to cater for ethnic groups but sadly many of these are poorly patronised and it is the mainstream events that put bums on seats and money in the bank. GSK support because it is in Brentford - not Hounslow

Anthony Waller ● 4866d

Thank you once again for responding so promptly Theo, although you will understand that I only asked you my question because I already knew the answer.

Phil Andrews ● 4866d

I'm just a newbie but like to think that Watermans should be in Syon not Brentford and I will be putting that argument when boundaries are next redrawn.  I didn't ask Jagdish because I didn't know his answer, I asked because I did.  If Jagdish had said he had plans to close Watermans I would have asked him why, since both he and I know he'd worked so very hard to get it established in Brentford in the first place.

Theo Dennison ● 4866d

Whilst this discussion has been taking place, a website has gone live which explains why the best place for Watermans would be in the centre of Brentford - in the new development. It also explains the disadvantages of leaving it where it now is  https://sites.google.com/site/keepwatermansinbrentford/the-case-for-watermans-in-brentford

Hazel Dakers ● 4866d

With the kind of ill informed decisions being made by this council one wonders who is worse. Council officers giving them poorly prepared information or councillors being too stupid to comprehend and see the ineptitude.Can anyone now trust this administration?

Anthony Waller ● 4866d

"Just out of curiosity, as a resident of Brentford and as a councillor serving a ward with a border just yards from the Watermans, what would you have done had the Leader of the Council told you he planned to close the Centre?"Asked an Officer for advice and if that did not help perhaps issue an FOI request?

Paul Fisher ● 4866d

Thank you for this Theo.Just out of curiosity, as a resident of Brentford and as a councillor serving a ward with a border just yards from the Watermans, what would you have done had the Leader of the Council told you he planned to close the Centre?

Phil Andrews ● 4866d

I asked the Leader of the Council this morning about the rumours that the Watermans was moving to Hounslow.  He was unambiguous in his position: the Watermans is a cultural asset for the borough and it belongs in Brentford.  There are no plans and he will entertain no discussion of proposals to move it to Hounslow.  I am sorry if that sounds ambiguous to anyone, it doesn't come much simpler.

Theo Dennison ● 4866d

Debbie, you and yours are liked and respected throughout Brentford, I am sure you would be a great asset to the campaign.

Phil Andrews ● 4869d

This will devistate the great Work that Torron and the Award winning Alliance Dance Project have achived they cant move watermans

Debbie Dewar ● 4869d

Of the 5 members of our family over 70, one is an online junkie, one just about has the hang of it but the others have tried and tried but cannot manage it.Similar ratio for their friends too so about 2 in 5.Still don't like the fact that so many are being frozen out for not being online or computer savvy so pleased to hear about the petition by hand.

Anthony Waller ● 4869d

Absolutely true.  Some of our older and most prolific local community activists have become almost geeks, sending emails and web links to all and sundry at a rate of knots.Not so my late dear friend and ICG founder Tom Reader though, who once assured me that "this Internet malarkey will never catch on".Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Phil Andrews ● 4869d

On the webpage where I hope you'll sign online, there is also an option to download a manual version of the petition and for you to obtain signatures from some of those "elders".Incidentally my Dad learned to use a computer in his late 80's and continued to do so until he died at 97. One should not assume that age indicates lack of computer use!

Hazel Dakers ● 4869d

What about the great many of elders who are not online but are furious at the rumours?These are the generation that made Watermans possible and happen and are fuming at the way the council are behaving.Is there a manual petition too?

Anthony Waller ● 4869d

An 'official' petition has been prepared on behalf of the Keep Watermans in Brentford website. I hope you will join me in becoming a signatory atwww.keepwatermansinbrentford.org.uk (click petition in menu top left) Help more by forwarding this request to all your local friends and acquaintances.

Hazel Dakers ● 4869d

I am a former community councillor and was for a long time organiser of the ICG.  Although I no longer play a major role I retain my membership and an active interest.To answer the question, yes the ICG is still going strong and its roots in the community are stronger and deeper than ever before.  Naturally there are some periods in which we are more active than others but even since the 2010 local elections we have mobilised massive local opposition to the mooted closures of Isleworth Library and the St. John's Community Centre, in both cases successfully, and have supported the efforts of campaigning Brentford residents like Hazel in the similar work that they have been doing in Brentford.The ICG has also played a leading role in the residents' campaign to bring Thames Water to book over its unwillingness to do anything to tackle the odour emanating from its sewage plant in Isleworth, and our legal claim was recently upheld by the High Court despite residents having receive no co-operation, and indeed often obstruction, from their own local authority.It is important to stress that the ICG does not just exist to fight elections and there are circumstances under which it may be possible for us to wield more clout on behalf of our community by acting as a pressure group, providing support for our existing councillors when they do the right thing and reserving the right to criticise them when they don't.  We are weighing up all the options right now and have ruled nothing in or out.If it is at all helpful I would be happy to speak to or meet with anybody in Brentford who is looking to break the mould in the way that we have done in Isleworth.  You should be aware too of course that the ICG is active in Syon ward, which includes a large chunk of Brentford, so we should ensure between us that there is no replication of efforts.What matters more than most right now is for the community to get its ducks in a row and to ensure that all the good guys across the field are singing from the same songsheet.

Phil Andrews ● 4871d

ICG was compromised in Hounslow by supporting the Conservative administration for 4 years in the same way as the LibDems are being compromised nationally by the coalition with the Conservatives. Both from time to time have modified the policies of their partners. The LibDems in Hounslow - there were LibDem councillors for many years - remained independent and modified decisions from time to time with constructive criticism.My fear is that by the time anyone is able to stand as an independent spokesperson ie in 2 years time,decisions will have long been taken and contracts signed.

Hazel Dakers ● 4871d

I don't know too much about them. They seem to have been tainted wit allegations of racism and so forth but as time passes it has evolved that a lot of that was made up slurs orhestrated by other political groups.Any independents will need to be wise to steer clear of the nasty bully boys who exist in  mainstream parties, they are just as odious as those in extreme parties but protected by them more.

Anthony Waller ● 4871d

Does the Independent Community Group (ICG) still exist and are they still active?

Sarah Felstead ● 4871d

If it were not for my job which demands regular 70 hour weeks I would stand too, and when circumstances change I will. For exactly the same reasons.I don't see how anyone can do a proper job and be a councillor and hold a raft of positions.And still show up in the pub! No wonder this Cllr. shows no clear understanding of almost anything.No wonder so many decisions are flawed.So hat's off to you and go for it. The straw that brole the camel's back as far as I'm concerned, is Cllr Cadbury.A once capable Councillor now tainted as so many are with power fogging her ability. At a recent sustainable development meeting, choosing to ignore the concerns of residents,of which she was well aware and only asking one question  over access to 1 garage - rented by a former local MP. Far more important than safety access to an electricity sub station or a flood relief duct. It shows clearly who they only really care about and this ring needs to be broken.I suspect it it's the same with tories and Lib -Dems.But a dozen independents with the time to do a first rate job as a local councillor would make a big difference. Good councillors are out there, we almost had one until recently, I would love to know who has clearly silenced him. Even the last newsletter evaded the biggest issues in the patch - And very out of his normal character.

Anthony Waller ● 4871d

In 16 months I will give up my teaching post, unlike Cameron, I believe teachers going on to they are 68 is wrong, and I wont do it. I will be willing to stand as a councillor, I live in mafeking, and have done for the last 30+ years. I will stand up for the people of this area because I am one. As for the councillors we have, well inept, secretive are just two of the compliments they deserve. Lets get some Brentford people in, not parties, but people. Lets face it, just look at their majorities, we could beat them, we just need to organise. (About time Cadbury went..............how long has she been there?)

paul wilson ● 4871d

It's 2 years before there's a local election. If a week's a long time in politics, you bet that 2 years is even longer!

Hazel Dakers ● 4871d

Someone was elected to the council not long ago on the sole platform of being against the closure of Brentford FC; surely the Waterman's is as worthwhile as a football club? Anyone ready to stand?

Susan Kelly ● 4872d

Would it not be an idea to lodge the petition somewhere else?  If you hand the control over to unidentified people who are going to 'decide if they can approve it' then you run the risk of them getting into a huff and losing it at any time, surely?Lets face it, it the Watermans moves away from its position it will be completely lost to the Borough.I wrote previously about the lack of signage to direct people to the venue and this has not changed.  I can't spot any direction signs to The Watermans at the junctions around Brentford/Isleworth.  Can you?

Sarah Felstead ● 4872d

Grove Park in Chiswick were highly successful with their petition against a proposed CPZ last year.  I can't remember who organized it or quite how it worked.  I shall post the question on the W4 Forum - hopefully someone will be able to offer assistance.I am certain that if this planned closure of Waterman's Art Centre by Hounslow Council is publicized enough, there will be a big outcry amongst the Chiswickians as well as the people of Brentford and Isleworth.  People outside the LBH area from Richmond, Kew, & Ealing are regular visitors to Waterman's and would also add their support.Please keep up the protest all you on the Brentford Forum.

Jennifer Selig ● 4872d

We could have one anyway?

Keith Iddon ● 4872d

How ridiculous that a petition needs to be approved by an official of some sort when the petition itself, by its very nature, is likely to be against what the same officials propose.This is democracy is it?

Claire Peleschka ● 4872d

and this needs to be "approved" by whom? and why?

Jonathan Portch ● 4872d

Apologies. I was premature in asking for signatories to the petition I hoped I'd placed on the Council website. Apparently it has to go through an approval process. I shall let you know when this happens.Thanks for drawing this to my attention Nigel!

Hazel Dakers ● 4872d

Must be me, but I cannot find any 'open' petitions under any category at all.The link just opens up a page saying: "Petition created  Thank you for creating your petition. It has been entered on our system and will now go to the team for approval."Presumably no link will open anything until 'someone' has approved the petition. Odd that there are simply no open petitions at all as yet. Anyone know how long it takes for these to be approved?

Nigel Moore ● 4872d

Please sign the petition I have placed on the Hounslow Council website.http://petitions.hounslow.gov.uk/Watermans/DgsAOyCwKxSoC3lYyYAkGDWWe the undersigned petition Hounslow Council to ensure thatWatermans Arts Centre remains in BrentfordAlso forward this to all your local friends and acquaintances.

Hazel Dakers ● 4872d

So the Robeson THeatre didn't survive in Houinslow.Shame,but what makes them think WAterman's would survive if that's the case?

Keith Iddon ● 4872d

I suggest the first move is to ensure that Cllrs Cadbury, Collins, Harmer and Curran out by any any means even if it means independents standing as they are all complicit in what's going on. They are wrecking in the smug name of policy and politics and have failed the community of Brentford as a whole just preferring the cosy arrangement with their political pals.Times up for this kind of politics.

Michael Brandt ● 4872d

My understanding is that the Paul Robson theatre has closed - so much for the Chiswick conspiracy theories. It is being transferred to the Treaty Centre to be used as retail with the proceeds being used in modernising a smaller Hounslow Library.

John Connelly ● 4872d

Indeed Hounslow already has a theatre.Waterman's should be at the centre of the proposed new development in Brentford if ever that is going to happen.Move it if you have to,but keep it in Brentford.

Keith Iddon ● 4872d

I am distresssed to read all these posts appearing to say that, come what may, LBH are determined to move Watermans in order to develop its riverside site.  To move this Arts Centre with its cinema, theatre, bar, restaurant, car park and open spaces would be to in effect shut it down all together.  The existing patrons of Watermans would not follow it into Hounslow, it wouild not survive.Hounslow already has the Paul Robson centre - not many folk from the eastern end of the borough make the journey there.  We like and want to keep Watermans.  I do agree it could do with a serious face lift but the past 2 years have seen some improvements.Has anyone in Brentford actually started a petition to SAVE OUR WATERMANS?  I am sure many people from Chiswick would willingly join - this subject has not be raised enough on the W4 website.  Also, has anyone contacted the Chiswick Councillors to lobby on behalf of the W4 supporters of Watermans?

Jennifer Selig ● 4872d

Hazel, I already filed a complaint with the Information Commissioner for non-response, on 25th February 2012. Such complaints take months to process however.Michael, only one councillor is actually listed as recipient/sender of the relevant emails, the two others involved are non-elected council officers; all are identified in the Council's replies to me, as can be read on "Whatdotheyknow.com"In all frankness, there is little point demanding further disclosure - the responses prove that Ballymore were indubitably correct in what they said to us; regardless of how far along their plans are, and regardless of which other non-council corporate bodies are involved, the Council are looking to relocate Watermans to a larger 'more accessible' site which any grant of outline consent to Ballymore will ensure is not Brentford.Who cares, really, what the identity of the other parties to a Hounslow-based Art Centre might be? That's the only remaining item of any interest that disclosure of the correspodence will reveal.Whether they see any desirability in retaining the name when relocated miles from the waterside is a possible point of interest. A "Watermans" far from the Thames and the eponymous Park would constitute anomolous, dislocated nomenclature. In which case, why not just build a 'competing' Hounslow Arts centre of their own?

Nigel Moore ● 4878d

All councillors may be identified at http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/mgMemberIndex.aspx?FN=WARD&VW=LIST&PIC=0 Brentford Ward is represented by Ruth Cadbury (Deputy Leader in charge of planning amongst other matters), Matt Harmer and Melvin Collins. Syon Ward (half Brentford is in Syon Ward) is represented by Steve Curran, Theo Dennison and Jason Ellar. All may be emailed firstname.secondname@hounslow.gov.uk

Hazel Dakers ● 4878d

Nigel, I hope you will raise this dubious and unsatisfactory response with the Information Commissioner. Of course commercial sensitivity was the weasel way in which the last government enfeebled its own Information Act. Bear in mind that when Watermans was first proposed about 30 years ago it was a form of compensation to Brentford for the adjacent office building blocking that part of the riverside. Brentford earned that compensation - not Hounslow. Time our councillors actually represented the wishes of residents of the two Brentford Wards - even those who don't live here.

Hazel Dakers ● 4878d

Please will someone name the councillors concerned/involved so they can be contacted and respond.I'll bet it's the usual suspects.

Michael Brandt ● 4879d

A response from Hazel Dakers who can't manage to post at the moment:Nigel, I hope you will raise this dubious and unsatisfactory response with the Information Commissioner. Of course commercial sensitivity was the weasel way in which the last government enfeebled its own Information Act. Bear in mind that when Watermans was first proposed about 30 years ago it was a form of compensation to Brentford for the adjacent office building blocking that part of the riverside. Brentford earned that compensation - not Hounslow. Time our councillors actually represented the wishes of residents of the two Brentford Wards - even those who don't live here.

Kath Richardson ● 4879d

Just in, the belated response to my request for an Internal Review of failure to respond to my Freedom of Information Request - http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/council_plans_for_relocation_of#incoming-269248It's a refusal notice, claiming that the information required is commercially sensitive, and public curiosity is not the same as public interest

Nigel Moore ● 4880d

It seems that is the case but he has at least, I understand, declared a conflict of interest. Unlike one or two other Brentford Labour councillors who have connections and hold positions way beyond their experience as novice councillors and are keeping schtum about the way they use the system to benefit their careers and those of their associates.At least in these days of facebook and twitter and other technologies, we are all gradually finding out about these little cliques and their ways, maybe in the not too distant future, we will see this come to an end and for the better bt my guess is that we still only have the tip of a huge iceberg.

Anthony Waller ● 4881d

"A meeting of residents on Sunday last showed that councillors contacted in writing or by email on a local planning proposal and hounslow homes issue had not replied to almost everyone. Not so much as an acknowledgement. All too busy commenting on national politics.As usual, just the one took the trouble, and whether you agree or not with him, you have to give him credit for at least being grounded and not above his station."Would this be the same councillor that works for a consultancy agency that specialises in getting its client's planning applications passed by local authorities?

Claire Peleschka ● 4882d

Really iyt's a case of the site outgrowing Waterman's.Wait and see.If we lose this gem there will be flats there in no time.North Kew riverside location darling...

Keith Iddon ● 4882d

How has it 'outgrown' its site? The cinema and theatre are seldom full, nor the car park, nor the bar or restaurant.

Susan Kelly ● 4882d

Agreed Keith, to me the statement is pretty clear - "we're staying here until we find somewhere else, and then we're off".

Adam Beamish ● 4882d

I've just read the statement and it basically says it will be moving and they are looking for somewhere.Read between the lines.

Keith Iddon ● 4882d

Could not agree more. Councillors and MP's often go silent when they know something is fundamentally wrong. The political system here then leaves them vulnerable to the whips and bullies and the wrath of the party (whichever one as they are all the same) should they decide to make a stand.That is why they only tackle the easy stuff thats do-able.But as you say very telling indeed.As for Watermans, well the building was poorly designed (another legacy of Hounslows utilitarian ineptness) But is all the same the only jewel in Brentford.I would like to see the site massively improved. But they are deluded if they think the current revival of the place will carry over to a new location. It won't.If it leaves Brentford (or the riverside) it will be dead and gone within a few years. It's patronage will not go with it.

Michael Brandt ● 4882d

The 'official' statement is pure waffle, Like a Sunday People exclusive that turns out to be nothing.What is telling is the total silence from the local councillors and the few other councillors that live in the vicinity.Total silence from even the one who usually makes the effort to keep people informed.It does not stop there it seems. A meeting of residents on Sunday last showed that councillors contacted in writing or by email on a local planning proposal and hounslow homes issue had not replied to almost everyone. Not so much as an acknowledgement. All too busy commenting on national politics.As usual, just the one took the trouble, and whether you agree or not with him, you have to give him credit for at least being grounded and not above his station.But it really is time for a clear out of those who are consistently not bothering, using the tile as a stepping stone, being too semi-literate to handle the portfolio they hold, too party political, morally corrupt and too often voting against the interests of the existing residents. This borough has had 40 years of this and it needs to end.

Anthony Waller ● 4882d

There's now a statement from the Council on the front page. It's one of those weaselly statements that don't really tell you anything.

Susan Kelly ● 4882d

"In relation to your request and to not delay further, I can confirm that having had confirmation from the named Council staff, Mary Harpley, Mike Jordan, Sunny Desai, and Jagdish Sharma, they do not hold any emails on the topic of Watermans future location. We also do not hold any meeting minutes on this topic."This is what I love about this Freedom of Information Act. It's pointless. When it was introduced every civil servant was given training on deleting emails (from the in box, deleted box, sent items and history box) so that responses could be given to requests saying exactly what has been said in this response, i.e, "do not hold any emails". That doesn't mean there weren't any. It just means they don't exist on a computer anymore.And why aren't there any minutes from meetings? Is it because there were no meetings or because they forgot to take any (which is extremely unlikely)?

Claire Peleschka ● 4900d

8 March 2012 Dear Mr Moore,I write to advise that your request is still being processed and I endeavour to respond with a full reply early next week.Kind regards,Grace HernandezCustomer RelationsEnvironment DepartmentLondon Borough of Hounslow

Nigel Moore ● 4901d

Nigel Moore has a delayed FoI request (from 20th Jan) to Hounslow Council athttp://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/council_plans_for_relocation_of#incoming-260747"The property developer Ballymore has stated publically that theCouncil has expressed its intent to them, to move the WatermansCentre out of Brentford.Please provide copies of the minutes of all meetings with Ballymorethat discuss this topic. We are not asking for commerciallysensitive information which may, if any exist, be blacked out fromthe minutes.Please provide also, copies of any emails on the topic of Watermansfuture location from or to: Mary Harpley; Mike Jordan; Sunny Desai;Stuart Harrison; Julia Worboys; Ruth Cadbury & Jagdish Sharma."A reply yesterday said :"In relation to your request and to not delay further, I can confirm that having had confirmation from the named Council staff, Mary Harpley, Mike Jordan, Sunny Desai, and Jagdish Sharma, they do not hold any emails on the topic of Watermans future location. We also do not hold any meeting minutes on this topic.However, Julia Worboys (also named on your request) of the Planning Policy team has provided copies of emails also copied to Ruth Cadbury and Stuart Harrison which we are still considering as to whether an exemption applies.I aim to respond again early next week."

Tim Henderson ● 4906d

I quite agree.  I was heartened to see that message from Torron.  Also, hopefully reassured by Ruth Cadbury's information.  However, at the last meeting in the Docking Station, I understood Ballymores did not have a space allocated in their design of the South side to move Watermans which was in their original plan.

Carolyn Nash ● 4907d

I did as Paul suggested and asked our local councillors. Ruth Cadbury said that Hounslow hasn't considered, let alone made, any decisions about moving Watermans to Hounslow. In the course of considering Ballymore's proposals, the Council will be meeting Watermans and Ballymore to discuss the future arts facilities in central Brentford.

Virginia Fassnidge ● 4923d

Useful boost from young Torron Dewar, selected as an Olympic torch bearer (see front page), who talks of communities needing more places such as the Waterman's. Go, Torron!

Susan Kelly ● 4928d

It's becoming rather worrying that our councillors are only telling us so much and not what we ought to know.For one or two rather uncharacteristic.What is going on?  It's just as bad in Ealing Council too.

Anthony Waller ● 4930d

The first thing I thought when I heard of this was to immediately think of our local councillors. they probably know a lot more than us and I think it is to them we should be asking the questions. When the council shut the swimming baths twenty years ago against massive local opposition there was at least one Brentford councillor who voted against her own voters. Ruth Cadbury. And she is not only still a Brentford councillor but also Deputy Leader of the Council. If there is anyone in Brentford who would know what was going on it would be her.

Paul Slattery ● 4930d

Moving it into the Magistrate's Court would be good if they could fit it in.

Keith Iddon ● 4932d

It seems pretty bird brained to me. Brentford's population is supposed to have increased by over a third. But with so many buy to lets and apartments kept for nookie nights by wealthy city types and TV & medida executives it has not resulted in a bigger community or a more inclusive one. At least not yet.But the Watermans serves local people from Brentford Chiswick and South Ealing pretty well. The cinema in particular has been very good for last two years, greatly improved image and audio quality and is very well patronised.Hounslow is a very different town. It is only really associated with Brentford by the nature of the unitary boroughs name. Brentford is really linked by the river towns of Isleworth and Chiswick and Southern Ealing.Demographically they are completely different and even before the ethnic influxes it was different.Hounslow has it's own facilities and serves it's own cultures. Watermans has attempted to embrace all that but never very successfully, it has though done much better with the local mix in this town.Moving it would be mad and very very wrong.Improving it though would be fantastic.Altering the main public area to eliminate the supporting columns to creat a more vesatile space and having a large half rotunda balcony galeria overhanging the river would make it one of the best venues for so many community things and attract a wider patronage.Move it to Hounslow and it will be dead in a few years.Who are these developers anyway? And just how do they get their foot in the door?

Anthony Waller ● 4933d

seems more likely the developers were flying a kite to see what the reaction would be.  Watermans is on a prime site and was the reward for a previous development along that stretch of the road.  No reason (or room I would have thought) to move it to Hounslow but could imagine the council agreeing to move it to the other side of the high street.  However I would be more likely to believe that the Council was considering shutting it altogether -it has been in the last chance saloon on a number of occasions

Patricia Nicholas ● 4933d

During that same meeting, the developers who I think had previously said Watermans would move into the high street, seemed to be curiously avoiding the debate and there does not seem to be a space there now for the arts centre, so yes it would be good to hear the true proposal from Hounslow council.

Carolyn Nash ● 4935d

I would be very surprised even with the shower in charge at the moment if the Watermans was to move anywhere except perhaps to the South side of the High Street when it eventually gets developed as has been proposed numerous times over the last 3-4 yearsPerhaps Cllrs Harmer or Cadbury could clarify the matter?

Paul Fisher ● 4935d

I think Hounslow Council have not advertised it openly, maybe they don't want people to know, but it was mentioned by someone (can't remember the name) who spoke at one of the meetings the developers held in the Docking Station.  Since the development is in the very early planning stages I imagine this is years away in reality, but it would be sad if it happened.

Carolyn Nash ● 4935d

Sorry but, who mentioned it - how was it mentioned - and why is it a secret if you were told about it?Anyone else privvy to the secret who can chip in?  :-)

Sarah Felstead ● 4935d

It was mentioned at one of the open meetings for the proposed redevelopment of the south side of the high street, so it is no secret.

Carolyn Nash ● 4935d

Carolyn Nash replied to the statement 'Watermans Moving To Hounslow'"Yes it is true, but Hounslow Council are keeping very quiet about it.  It would be a great shame if we lost Watermans, maybe we could start a petition to keep it in Brentford"Pardon me, but what exactly is true?  Hounslow Council is expanding The Watermans Art centre, secretly into Hounslow.  Where to, exactly?  Have they been secretly holding secret meetings for this expansion because I thought all meetings are supposed to be openly advertised and minuted?Look. if you have specific information - please be open, honest and direct about it.Thanks!Sarah  xx

Sarah Felstead ● 4935d

Yes it is true, but Hounslow Council are keeping very quiet about it.  It would be a great shame if we lost Watermans, maybe we could start a petition to keep it in Brentford.

Carolyn Nash ● 4935d

Success? Brentford High St? When?

Liz Price ● 4935d

The Pub or the Arts centre?Well that's problem solved, another amenity to build houses on and sell later for £££££££££s

Michael Brandt ● 4935d

I hope the powers that be follow your logic Susan.

Keith Iddon ● 4935d

Hounslow already has a theatre, doesn't it? Seems unlikely, so soon after spending a fortune renovating it.

Susan Kelly ● 4935d

Let's hope not.This place is one of the joys of living in Brentford.

Keith Iddon ● 4936d

Anyone heard rumours that LB Hounslow is moving to LB Richmond?

Sarah Felstead ● 4936d

I'll ask the landlord next time I'm in for a pint. It's a nice little pub

Ken Collins ● 4936d