Forum Topic

Junction with Ealing Road and High Street

Who should I contact about the safety of the traffic lights on the junction of Ealing Road and the High Street?  Yet again this morning I have seen vehicles (this time a scooter and a courier van) go through the lights on RED and only just avoiding a collision.  The issue occurs with traffic heading east along the High Street.  Because there are duel traffic lights (one for straight on, one for the left turn onto Ealing Road), as soon as an unfamiliar driver sees the lights go green for the left feed, they proceed across the junction.  It won’t be long before a vehicle exits Ealing Road at speed and collides with the through traffic.

Paul Scullion ● 4819d43 Comments

To me the only issue with this junction is the proximity of the bus stop serving the 65 heading towards Ealing to the actual junction, and also the position of that bus stop directly opposite the entrance/exit to McDonalds.Often when buses stop there it either (a) causes a tailback either due to queuing traffic heading south preventing cars from overtaking the stationary bus or due to a car moving alongside the bus and then wanting to turn right into McDonalds or (b) leads to something of a conflict between drivers overtaking the stationary bus and drivers leaving McDonalds.Problem is it's difficult to relocate the bus further north because of the zebra crossing, junction with Albany Road, on-street parking bays etc.There's absolutely no problem with the layout of the junction itself or the phasing/operation of the lights, although it still never ceases to amaze me the amount of dopey drivers heading eastbound from the High Street and going straight on who stop at a green light because they are looking at the red light serving the left turn into Ealing Road.

Adam Beamish ● 3406d

The new light phasing seems to have done the trick with both eastbound signals going green at the same time.  No more driver confusion.

Paul Scullion ● 3406d

February 19th newsletter has the article and photograph underBrentford bus stop wiped out by Goods Falling Off Lorry

Sarah Felstead ● 3407d

Hi Susan. I think it is the design to consider not legislation.For instance, are HGVs having difficulty making the turn into Ealing road and that is why the lorries load shifted and deposited it onto the top of the bus stop flattening it?  In your odd trips using the junction you would have been very upset if you had been inside the bus shelter as that happened.And the poor person flat on the road may have been crossing in the wrong place to get to the same bus stop, and often people start a routine of crossing in the wrong places after a new junction is set up.  There is a camera overlooking the junction so has the film been reviewed to see how the junction is operating?

Sarah Felstead ● 3407d

There are going to be accidents at any junction. I use this one several times a month, coming and going to/from the Waterman's, and it works fine. There's always going to be the odd occasion when someone, driver or pedestrian, does something silly. You can't legislate against that.

Susan Kelly ● 3408d

Went past yesterday and some poor person was prone in the road ( hope they are ok but they weren't moving.  A Royal Mail van was blocking the road to stop any further accidents) and a couple of weeks ago I went past after the lorry had deposited its load onto the buse stop.  There was a photograph on the front page.

Sarah Felstead ● 3408d

Pleased to notice that there has been a modification to the green filter light facing the east bound traffic on the pole on the island in the middle of the road. Directional shades now stop it being prominent to the straight ahead traffic in the outside lane.Well done (at last).

Tim Henderson ● 4357d

For clarity, the design changes are progressing in discussion with TfL and we hope to make the changes within the next few months.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 4416d

Don't be so smug. With the way the lights are, unless you know the junction and how it works you catch a glimpse of green and you react. I was caught out when they were first installed. There is no need to have the left filter light in the eyeline of traffic waiting to head towards Kew. Also nearly been rear ended because of this

Paul Phillips ● 4417d

Browsing through the LIP Appendix 1, I came across what may be good news : "Minor redesign toEaling Road/High Street junction to be implemented in 2014/15 to improve driver compliance with signals. Road users and bus operators have reportedreductions in delays at this junction, andthe improvement to cycling conditionsand the street environment have been favourably noted."I haven't reported the last two contraventions I witnessed - a car came along the High Street while I was turning right from Ealing Road Advanced Stop Line box on my bike to  go west into Brentford. Presumably he too needs to improve his driver compliance with the filter signal.The other one was a car which also went straight on east at the left-turn filter green signal and narrowly missed a left turning car from Ealing Road.Still lots of near misses.....

Tim Henderson ● 4417d

Once again I was almost t-boned on this junction by somebody going through the red light.  I suspect there has been added pressure to get through the lights given the queue of traffic generated by the roadworks at the Musical Museum, but even without this backlog on the junction, it won't be long before there is accident.

Paul Scullion ● 4714d

Quite possibly one of the drivers you encountered went for a little 'detour' at Gillette Corner last night...

Adam Beamish ● 4774d

I don't know about 'incompetent': the sheer number of people who are confused by this suggests it's something more than usual incompetence at work.Last Sunday I was third in the straight on Eastbound queue. The two in front of me went on red, someone came down the left lane and went straight on (still red) and the car behind me commenced manoeuvres to get round me - it went green before they could complete. On Monday, another red light jumper.There will surely be a serious accident unless something is done.

Guy Lambert ● 4774d

I don't think you need to do away with the principle of the filter - just remove the filter arrow light from the pole on the central island  directly in front of the straight-ahead east-bound traffic (and if it is necessary to have a repeater signal, then mount it on the Macdonalds corner, where a left-hand turning driver might be looking but it is peripheral to the straight-ahead driver.)

Tim Henderson ● 4785d

Just going back to my previous post about the bus lane on Twickenham Road, I see there's now a new central refuse just after the bus lane, so drivers now have to move in considerably to the left to avoid that refuge.I do think that's going to cause problems because now there's the propensity for some idiot to drive too fast down the bus lane when it isn't operational (I drive down it when it isn't operational but slowly and sensibly to merge with the outside lane at its conclusion) and when they get to the end of the bus lane drivers on their outside will be moving in to the left to avoid the refuse, and the difference in speeds may well cause accidents.Not a sensible place to put a refuge in my view.

Adam Beamish ● 4785d

It would seem to me that this would be the optimum design for the central lights:http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/1224/1224,1102537275,1/stock-photo-uk-traffic-lights-56935.jpgThis way there would be no amber phase on the central set and hence no confusion.  It is my opinion that the drivers, incompetent or otherwise, move off when they see a solid amber light.

Paul Scullion ● 4785d

I don't disagree that it happens, only last week I saw it in reverse - the left filter arrow came on, and the guy in the lane next to me (on my left) didn't move, until I caught his attention and pointed at the green left arrow and he then moved off and turned left.But surely the only solution would be to do away with the green filter completely ?.

Adam Beamish ● 4785d

Adam, I am concerned that any driver turning right from Ealing Road could be slammed into by the incompetent driver who has mis-read the lights.  I don't want this to happen (it will sometime) so think that the phasing/signalling needs to be re-examined to minimize confusion.At the moment, the amber before the left filter green arrow is a trigger to the 'incompetent' to get started - the green filter comes on and the arrow sign is somehow dis-regarded.  I'm no psychologist but can see how this happens.

Paul Garnham ● 4785d

I still disagree - it's a simple junction if you're a competent driver.  If a serious accident happens, the only person who will be at fault is the driver, who, if he/she cannot navigate this junction properly, is just as likely to have a serious accident anywhere.As I've posted before, all I see on the roads generally is an increasing decline in the quality of driving.

Adam Beamish ● 4785d

This hasn't improved. I cross this junction at least twice a day and frequently much more often. People are still moving off eastbound towards Chiswick when the left filter to Ealing goes to green.  The debate about 'stupid' drivers and mini roundabouts is going to be academic when there's a serious accident caused by this.  It needs looking at again urgently.

Paul Garnham ● 4785d

I went through the junction to Young’s vets on Friday, and decided that nothing is worth the sacrifice of the trees which have established themselves, concealing McDonald's from the street.  The drivers are just going to have to start slowing and reading the road junction.  ...  ... :-)Hope this works
View Larger Map

Sarah Felstead ● 4807d

I drive across (or should that be round ?!) that roundabout every day so know it well ;-)I take your point about drivers on it not always giving way, although the vast majority do, and traffic there is generally slow moving anyway at peak times due to the bus stops on the narrow single carriageway roads which lead to the roundabout.  Not comparable in my view to the Ealing Road/High Street junction.The approach to that roundabout from the north does however give another great example of driving without due care and attention, with most drivers rigidly sticking outside of the bus lane at all times despite it only being operational between 4-7pm.  What compounds that lack of attention is that those of us observant enough to use the bus lane perfectly lawfully (and I don't mean speeding down the bus lane and trying to force our way back in at its conclusion) then often find ourselves getting cut up/refused to be let in by drivers at the end of the bus lane, often with the associated verbal abuse or rude gestures. 

Adam Beamish ● 4809d

No, never mind. :-(

Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

and this link might be better!  fingers crossed ...
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Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

"Traffic lights here delaying th4e flow add to the nightmare jam."  ... should of course readTraffic lights here delaying the flow would of course add to the nightmare jam.

Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

Nothing wrong with a good sherry, Adam. :-)It occurs that there are some junctions which would be much better without the restrictions of lights.  It seems to me that Drivers often run with familiarity and there seems to be an unwritten allowance for people ignoring the rules of a mini roundabout and therefore taking greater care when joining.  The mini roundabout at the bottom of St Johns road, Isleworth is one example, by rights there should be dozens of accidents every day as very few people actually give way when they should.  Traffic lights here delaying th4e flow add to the nightmare jam.
View Larger MapAdmittedly this is a much smaller junction, but it seems to work very well in this next example - beside Kingston Bridge.
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View Larger Map

Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

Honestly Sarah, I'd think you were on the sherry to seriously think a mini-roundabout could work in that location.  Especially given traffic volumes, the fact every approach has two lanes, the McDonalds entrance and exits etc.  It would be a recipe for disaster.I'm pretty sure as part of the improvements the whole timings were reconfigured to improve the phasing, and to me they have done.  Bit dodgy though for pedestrians who don't rigidly stick to only crossing when the green man is showing, but I guess that's their risk.

Adam Beamish ● 4809d

All we need are better road users including cyclists, motorcyclists, pedestrians and drivers.This applies everywhere tho'.I do feel that,as Saras said that the time between sequences is too long and that also the eastbound light does not allow enough vehicles through.

Keith Iddon ● 4809d

"A mini-roundabout would be comical, in a terrifying way. "Pray, why?

Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

Keith, like you I had to double check the arrangement of the lights.I don't think the length of the phases is a problem in any direction.  It certainly is an improvement on how it was previously.  A mini-roundabout would be comical, in a terrifying way.  All we need is better drivers on the roads.Back to the subject of light phasing, I contacted CCF yesterday about the junction of Twickenham Road and Mogden Lane.  The phasing appears to have been altered so that if you're heading north, on several successive phases the green phase will only last for at most 10 seconds, then finally on a subsequent phase it will last for considerably longer.Given that most of the traffic at this junction is heading straight on along Twickenham Road, when there's a run of short green phases traffic heading north is backed up all the way to the roundabout with the A316.  Inevitably impatient drivers nearer the front of the queue are getting into the left hand lane (which is only for turning left into Mogden Lane) and then going straight on and cutting up other  motorists.Desperately needs sorting out before we end up with the whole of the A316 jammed because traffic can't move off the roundabout.

Adam Beamish ● 4809d

True.

Keith Iddon ● 4809d

So much time is lost on stopping one lane and starting another.

Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

I agree Andrea. The time allowed by the green light at theis jct. when travelling east on London Rd. does not seem adequate.

Keith Iddon ● 4809d

Is it a traffic light timing issue? Very few cars seem to manage to be able to get through which can lead to some drivers becoming heavy on the accelerator.  I would also suggest that traffic queuing at the entrance/exit to McDonald's compounds the problem (for drivers at the lights, and those turning from the High Street onto Ealing Road).

Andrea Hall ● 4809d

Has there ever been a mini roundabout here?  Is there room for a mini roundabout?

Sarah Felstead ● 4809d

I looked at this junction again the other day and I retract my earlier post.If you are paying attention as a road user thaere should be no problem.I thought that the only left turn light was on the right on the island.I am wrong, there is a left turn at the correct place.Apologies.

Keith Iddon ● 4809d

Should every junction in the world be 'idiot proof' I wonder ?.  Now that the left filter is back when approaching the junction from Ealing Road, I think the junction works fine, but clearly all of us are witnessing people driving badly at the junction, which is far too high a frequency.Even if as I suggested earlier enforcement cameras were put at the junction, this wouldn't actually improve driving behaviour.Personally I think every driver should have to undergo some kind of review every 5 years.  We place so much emphasis on the dangers of excessive speed, but very little on the dangers of driving carelessly and/or inappropriately.Only last week I had a minor run-in with a policeman.  I was stopped at the front of a queue at a set of traffic controlled junction roadworks (I was going to turn right) and playing music on my car stereo through bluetooth with my window down.  A guy parked on the opposite side of the road started moving and I could see he was going to drive straight past me through the red light (fortunately no traffic was coming in the opposite direction).  Instead of using the controls on the dashboard (as I should have done), I picked up my phone to stop the music on my phone in an effort to shout at him about the red light.A police car at that moment came up the nearside lane and saw me with my phone in my hand.  Cue finger wagging and verbal telling off.  Copper didn't take too kindly to me pointing out that whilst he was strictly correct, given that I was stationary and with my hand brake on I was far less of a danger than the guy I'd been trying to stop from driving straight through a red light (which the copper must have seen).  Perfect example of what I see as the biggest problem on the roads today.  The authorities are so pre-occuped with obtaining revenue from simple offences and removing every potential element of danger or risk from any road rather than targeting the considerable proportion of drivers who simply do not have the road sense to be behind the wheel.  It's easier to impose points and fines on someone doing 33 in a 30 than it is to try to do the same to someone for driving without due care and attention because they drive through a junction in the wrong lane etc.  Not in any way condoning speeding or using a non-hands free mobile whilst driving, but I wish the authorities were more consistent in their overall approach to driving behaviour.

Adam Beamish ● 4809d

I see this happen almost every time when I am at this junction and last Sunday when turning left towards Kew Bridge one driver even had the cheek to beep me when he had jumped the red lights coming straight for me!

J Byerley ● 4809d

I watched a middle aged guy driving a Mondeo go straight on at this junction from Brentford towards Kew Bridge when the lights were on red this morning.It baffles me how these dumbos can't comprehend the junction.  Ok so there's two sets of lights, but they are easily distinguishable, one has a blue directional left arrow beneath the traffic lights, and when that set of lights go to green the green light comprises a directional arrow to the left, and the other set of lights has a blue directional straight ahead arrow and the accompanying green light comprises a straight ahead arrow.This isn't in my view a dangerous junction, it's simply a case that there's a proportion of drivers who aren't driving with due care and attention.  These are the dumbos I'd like to see penalised - I wish Hounslow/TfL would stick cameras at the junction so that such idiots could get the points on their licenses that they deserve for such careless and dangerous driving.

Adam Beamish ● 4809d

This would seem to be a good example of creating a hazard where there wasn't one before.If someone is killed because of this poor layout surely the people who put it in would  have a case to answer.Whoever put the left turn light in the central position that it is is either inexperienced in these matters or has not done a risk assessment imo.

Keith Iddon ● 4819d

Yes, as I was biking east last night a biggish ?Landrover set off straight ahead as the left filter light appeared and came to a screeching halt just before hitting something turning right from Ealing Road. When it was our turn to go I thought I could see a few skid marks on the tarmac in the middle of the junction.....In the previous threads on this I think Chris had raised the issue with TfL but they were reluctant to resite the repeater filter signal. I'm not sure how many accidents it takes to produce the evidence to support the relocation.

Tim Henderson ● 4819d

But isn't it more common for the left filter to be restricted to the left lane of traffic? The confusion arises when a light in the central reservation, a considerable way away from the sight line of the left lane suddenly shows a green.

Leigh Stops ● 4819d

You should contact Chris Calvi-Freeman, Head of Transport at LBH - he's probably seen your posting.Personally, I don't see what the problem is.  It's not exactly unusual for filter traffic lights at a junction to allow traffic to turn left, whilst traffic heading straight on has to wait for the relevant green light.  In this case, I think it's because before the junction was 'improved' this arrangement didn't exist, so drivers don't think or stay alert to the change.

Adam Beamish ● 4819d