Forum Topic

Hats off to the people who organise the rubbish collection.

Faced with two bank holidays plus the additional waste from the weekend of celebrations, the collection was back and running only one day late!  Amazing and much appreciated.Now all we need is for the recycling people to see the trail they leave behind in the street ...   ...

Sarah Felstead ● 4806d55 Comments

This morning I visited my daughter in Braemar Road I crossed the GWR and then the little bridge at Brook Road North and walked up to the Griffin and down Braemar.  I never noticed much in the way of litter or mess.30 mins or so later I left my daughter's and made my way towards the Griffin and down Lateward Road.  I have never seen so much litter and  mess everywhere I walked.  Braemar Road was absolutely strewn with plastic containers of every description, crisp bags, plastic wrapping etc., etc, Lateward Road to the gates of the park was just the same.  I don't know if these collectors went back to collect this debris but I can say at that time these streets were an absolute disgrace.  I don't care what these collectors are paid they must be blind and pathetic if they are incapable of picking up a white bag and emptying its contents into a huge truck without dropping and leaving 20% of its contents on the roads.Last week my daughter's glass oven door shattered.  She collected the pieces and put them into a box for collection.  Whoever picked it up decided to empty all the pieces out of the box onto the pavement and leave them there.  My daughter refused to pick it up and instead emailed and called the council who after 2 days sent someone to clean up the mess.  How does that save anyone money?

Bernadette Paul ● 4776d

Philippa – don’t for one moment think that I do not like our waste collection containers!The green garden waste sacks are second to none; I took ours to the tip this week, having filled them early and was watched very jealously by a Richmond resident as I tipped them up effortlessly, helped by the strap on the bottom.The food waste containers work but only if they are kept upright, as they are designed to be kept, handling the concentrated food waste in the small bins must be considered a serious hazard.  The problems arise when the waste bin is returned upside down (again this week) and the green bin/plastic people don’t bother to pick up as they go along.I have always sung (if I could do a run of musical notes here, I would) the praises of our house waste dustmen.We have a new team and they appear just as cheery.As far as feeding our children goes there are lots of comments about how families use child benefit for luxuries instead of the children, and we hear tales of child benefit being paid abroad to children who are not residing here.  I would much rather have some of the money tied directly through schooling such as all school meals quality driven and free including breakfasts.

Sarah Felstead ● 4780d

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/nov/13/sure-start-cuts-threatCuts like these filter through to the school age kids who don't get a good breakfast at home and consequently can't concentrate and learn. Just one child can disrupt the learning of many others.  You can't live life in just one Excel column.

Philippa Bond ● 4790d

You see what you are wasting and can adjust your shopping and eating habits.We are buying too much and throwing too much away.  Many have never learnt how to cook healthy meals and how to adapt recipes to what there is in the house.  Meals at home seem to have been turned into restaurant meals with take-aways and fancily named ready meals. Bring back bubble and squeak and fried cold potatoes with the remains of the cold roast.  You can't make them successfully from newly cooked potatoes and cabbage!  And home made soup using stock from the carcase of Sunday's chicken roast is far superior to anything bought.

Philippa Bond ● 4791d

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/may/06/food-education-obesity-steven-gerrardhttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/9248258/Jamie-Oliver-Government-should-introduce-cookery-lessons-in-schools.html

Philippa Bond ● 4791d

I don't quite grasp how food waste collection saves us money and feeds the poor.Fridge management sounds like a LBC initiative - I just bury fresh meat in the garden in a bucket. I think one of my neighbours has a fridge though......I'm also not sure about all this hand-washing. I seem to get by with a quick hoover before I jump into bed.Night night.

Ian Silver ● 4792d

Sarah I think those problems can be found absolutely anywhere if you look hard enough. I would hate to be one of the many people (resident or dustman)who has to deal with a nose-high wheelie bin collected fortnightly into which food waste and garden waste is collected and then sits rotting.  This happens over much of the country.  Plastic holds smell and a large wheelie bin is quite hard to manoeuvre to wash out.  Time that could be enjoyed in the sun is spoiled because of the stink as these things need a lot of space and you need to wash your clothes as well as having a bath after washing one out.  I know I've done it and our system is so much easier to deal with. They are ugly and incongruous and don't go well with the chocolate box image of some of the country villages populated with these things. I thought people in this country had a bad enough reputation for washing themselves anyway.  I love our food waste system in comparison - and use it to help me to manage and reduce the amount of food waste which saves us money and and salves my conscience as I know so many have so little to eat.  The number of children who go to school without breakfast is worrying and makes it even more difficult for the teachers to teach them.  We need them to understand how to manage their fridges at home (if they have them) and know how to cook and how to store the food they buy.We also need a better hand washing campaign - in our homes, our hospitals, our schools and universities and offices.  Everywhere.All these finger-foods and no handwashing - yuk!

Philippa Bond ● 4792d

I have just heard back from Hounslow and they are treating it as a Freedom of Information request. The mind boggles.Copied below.... Your contact Naomi Hawkins Email contact address foi@hounslow.gov.uk Your reference number FOI/EIR reference 007739 Date 25 June 2012Dear Mr Silver, RE: FOI request on Kerbside collectionI acknowledge receipt of your FOI request by e-mail on 19- Jun- 12.  Further information about how we deal with FOI requests can be found at www.hounslow.gov.uk. Further information can also be found at www.ico.org.uk.Your request will be dealt with by Environment. Your FOI reference number is 007739.We are required to respond to FOI requests within 20 working days. You should receive a reply no later than 17- Jul- 12.If we are unable to give you a full reply by 17- Jul- 12 we will write to you and explain why.We have a duty to disclose all information unless an exemption applies.  There are seven absolute and sixteen qualified exemptions.Should we decide that an exemption and/or the public interest test applies to the information you have requested, we will inform you of this within the 20 working days and provide you with particulars of the relevant exception and/or our reasons for applying the public interest test and explain why we have drawn this conclusion.We will advise you of any cost implications, depending on the nature of the request and the time taken to locate and retrieve the information.If you have not received a response within 20 working days from the date of receipt of your request, or you feel that we have not dealt properly with your request for information, please contact the FOI Review Officer, Environment, Civic Centre, Lampton Road, Hounslow, TW3 4DN or email FOI@hounslow.gov.uk.Should you need to contact the department about this matter please quote the above reference number.Yours sincerely,Customer Services OfficerEnvironment Department

Ian Silver ● 4792d

Philippa. Wonder if any of the staff call in with upset stomachs, gastric issues, eye infections, breathing issues, are they recorded as industrial illnesses?  I use an antiseptic cloth to wipe the handle of the food waste bin as it doesn't bear thinking about what bacteria is on their gloves.

Sarah Felstead ● 4794d

They would also need to know what sort of food waste liners residents can put in their bins too.Hounslow's website is very specific informative and helpful on this.  If you are not using newspaper, or paper or kitchen roll or shredded paper and are using other liners then they need to be the kind which will compost properly in the conditions in the particular type of composting facility they are going to.  (Seedling logo and EN 13432)How do they acquire this knowledge?

Philippa Bond ● 4794d

Phillippa - I did take a photo of the food bins on their sides - but as they were all being returned in this way you would only have to look at any street to see what I mean!  Returning the bins, on their sides, on top of the white plastic sacks means that these sacks will be seriously contaminated too (in regards to transfer of germs).  The food waste bins should surely be treated as high risk waste, and that certainly needs some regard for training.

Sarah Felstead ● 4797d

Did anybody photograph this?  Send a photo with your complaints and of course you can always post a photoon this site.  Photos seem to focus attention.

Philippa Bond ● 4797d

Irony? Wot irony?

Keith Iddon ● 4797d

Who said irony was dead eh?

Ian Silver ● 4797d

Never?

Keith Iddon ● 4797d

I guess it should also be asked of the Council how often they actually go out (incognito)  to monitor and report on the performance of subcontractors who are paid with our money.

Steve Taylor ● 4797d

I understand the modern excuse of 'no training' but surely all it takes for this is the supervisor to demonstrate how to return containers and to say what is expected.All you are asking is foor the containers to be put back how they were found.How much traing do you need ?

Keith Iddon ● 4797d

I've no idea.I've just sent an email to hounslow asking them (the SITA site refers this to them). Copy below:Hi,Could you advise who employs the street teams who collect our recyclables? Is it SITA, the local authority or an agency?Also, could you please advise what training they receive, and from whom?Finally, could you advise what remuneration is offered to a member of a street team?Thank you in advance.Regards,

Ian Silver ● 4798d

So who is resonsible for the training, Ian?  They can't be let loose on work such as this without training, so who does this and who sets the standards if Housnlow don't have any say once the contract is taken on?

Sarah Felstead ● 4798d

"Would it be reasonable to want the food waste container returned to the driveway, upright?"Yes. The service is far less than satisfactory. If you visit the SITA web site you will see that there is no "core training" offered for street teams. I think they are supplied by agencies, not employed by the company nor subject to their purported high standards.

Ian Silver ● 4798d

Would it be reasonable to want the food waste container returned to the driveway, upright?Today our container was returned, upside down, on the driveway and my neighbours were all on their sides either oozing onto the pavement or onto the plastic waste bags, which they had been placed on top of.  All had their lids ajar.I wash ours out regularly and use bleach but the build-up of serious bacteria in the ooze at the bottom of the containers must be a hazard to step in and transfer.

Sarah Felstead ● 4798d

I think the answer is not to have much recycling. Take clothing direct to the charity shops and clothing banks (open all hours).  This stops is being sorted through either by the operatives collecting or anybody else who fancies a look beforehand and may leave it strewn around.http://www.hounslow.gov.uk/index/environment_and_planning/recycling/waste_reduction/waste_reduction_home.htmMake sure you don't get as little as possible junk mail by registered with the relevant companies.

Philippa Bond ● 4799d

Ain't never gonna happen Andrea, not a chance !

Keith Iddon ● 4802d

keith and Vanessa - I am tempted to say 'get a room'.....I do, however, have to agree with Keith's original point that recycling can be left, apparently on a whim, by some of the recycling teams. Either that or they remove the items and throw them in the garden (clothing is apparently sometimes okay and sometimes not).  In addition, we live at the point of our road where the pavement is narrowest, with an added streetlight and bollard to provide further obstacles to reduce space for pedestrians, so have to stack the containers in the garden but visible to the recycling team.  When we return home the recycling containers have usually been thrown back in so that they squash plants etc.  I just wish a modicum of respect or thought for people's property would enter their minds.

Andrea Hall ● 4802d

I didn't say I KNEW, this is what I said."I dare say they're on minimum wage  - you only get what you pay for."Having looked at a few vacancies it would seem that most recycling operatives are very low paid. The minimum wage was brought in not to be a benchmark for average wages but as a protection against unscrupulous employers, who now believe advertising a post as in line with the minimum wage is some sort of badge of honour. One of my sons has first hand experience of the job market via the comically called Job Centre+. I don't think he was offered one job that wasn't minimum wage or indeed many full time jobs. The majority of them were so far away it was a joke and even to get to some of them by public transport would have made quite a hole in anything he could earn. I feel the same about this as I do about so-called 'internships' where there is no pay, and jobs where people are expected to go to keep their benefit. If there is a job and work to do then people should be paid the proper rate not used as cheap labour. There is an old saying - pay peanuts, and get monkeys. If you want a decent job then pay a decent rate to get it done. No-one as far as I know has yet found out how to live on fresh air.

Vanessa Smith ● 4804d

Well this week the black bags were collected by smiling man and lady - no problems at at all and the recycling was collected without leftovers/ litter  strewn across the roads and pavements. So hats off to all the teams. Job well done and much appreciated.

Steve Taylor ● 4804d

Ian Silver ● 4804d

It's fine thankyou for asking but getting back to the subject of this thread and one of my questions. How is it you know these recycling collectors are paid the minimum wage and that they are not on decent money.And why is it not ok to ask them to do a decent job? If one of your kids did this job would you not encourage him to do it as well as he could?

Keith Iddon ● 4805d

Ian Silver ● 4805d

Not that it's anything to do with you or anyone else for that matter - but the answer is an emphatic no. We had two young sons - hardly the type of people to be able to indulge ourselves in an orgy of share purchases, and there is no way privatisation fo essential services could ever be justified as history has shown very clearly. It was never against my principles to buy our house - in fact it was originally a Labour proposal  - the problem came when Thatcher refused to allow councils to use the capital receipts to replace the homes that were sold. Which incidentally, is why we're in the sh*t now, housing wise. So now do tell us all about your blameless, politically correct life, and how it is up on that pedestal?

Vanessa Smith ● 4805d

ROFL. You are having a laugh I take it. As you are known for your rank hypocracy by publicly saying how much you hate Thatcher yet you bought your council house thank you very much, I think you should come clean on whether you bought shares in the public utilities  she sold off that you are always having a go at for profiteering . Personally I did neither of these two as it was against my principals at the time.Still is.

Keith Iddon ● 4805d

Oooooooooooooooo! Someone upset you have they????

Vanessa Smith ● 4805d

PS.If you weren't a hypocrit when it came to taking advantage of the policies of 'nasty crappy and vindictive' Tory policy I would take you more seriously.

Keith Iddon ● 4805d

What's the matter with you Vanessa?This thread is about recycling and the fact that the recycling collectors don't do much of a job, which a few,including you,have agreed with.If I'm all heart you are all mouth.Get over yourself. What is wrong with asking someone to do a decent job?I don't need lectures from you about the minimum wage .My wife works for less than the minimum wage and because she has a work ethic does a good job.I wonder what message about self respect and pride in work you give your kids if you have any.

Keith Iddon ● 4805d

You're all heart Keith, the personification of this cr*ppy, nasty and vindictive government. Sod you Jack - pull the ladder up.

Vanessa Smith ● 4805d

No one is twisting their arm to do this job.How do you know they are not decently paid? You seem to know an awful lot about their terms and conditions.Anyway,if they are minimum wage earners,isn;t the minimum wage scheme one of the perceived successes of Tony and his croniues?If they come to this country to work then this is the work we have for them if they want it.

Keith Iddon ● 4805d

Then pay them properly too.

Vanessa Smith ● 4805d

We obviously have a different mind set about this Vanessa.No one is asking them to 'bust a gut'.Just do the job properly that's all.

Keith Iddon ● 4806d

Well it's just another example of them and us. The bus drivers are asking for £500 for Olympic working and the bus companies are calling them everything under the sun, but seven of the bosses are getting £560,000 payout between them if all goes smoothly. Yep! We're certainly all in it together!

Vanessa Smith ● 4806d

"a decent days pay for a days work should be the right way. I doubt the directors of the company that employs (exploits) them do it for the bare minimum, would you bust a gut for peanuts?" ... in passing I heard part of a news item today that the top person at Thames Water has just been awarded a bonus equivalent to his annual salary.You couldn't make it up, could you - as I seem to have heard on here before.(no smiley faces, no winking faces, no angry faces, no absolutely nothing)

Sarah Felstead ● 4806d

I don't care where they come from, a decent days pay for a days work should be the right way. I doubt the directors of the company that employs (exploits) them do it for the bare minimum, would you bust a gut for peanuts?

Vanessa Smith ● 4806d

I don't go with that Vanessa.If you agree to do a job at whatever rate of pay you should do it as well as you can.Most of our recyclers seem to have East European accents.Aren't they supposed to be harder working and more diligent...?

Keith Iddon ● 4806d

Our card also had the correct date - taking into account the extra Bank Holiday. Agree about the recyclers - looks like there's been a fight after they've been, however, I dare say they're on minimum wage  - you only get what you pay for.

Vanessa Smith ● 4806d

I am and never have been an inveterate bogie picker or collector Phil.

Keith Iddon ● 4806d

Did you used to collect bogie numbers perchance?

Phil Andrews ● 4806d

The whole idea has less and less credibility when you consider the leaps of incineration technology that have taken place since the idea of recycling started in Scandinavia in the 60's.Smoke filtration has improved massively as has the storage of depleted filters(buried in molten glass as this is many times more impervious to water and decay than concrete) and much higher temperatures can be reached so much less in the way of waste and smoke is produced.High enough temperatures can now be reached to induce a state that is known as plasma gassification which I believe makes it easier to generate more energy per pound of waste.I am going to take off my anorak now.

Keith Iddon ● 4806d

Some may say it defeats the object of recycling, all those emissions etc.

Phil Andrews ● 4806d

Jim,I already pay for my recycling to be collected so don't see why I should do the job for them.Unless of course I get my CT reduced by the amount charged for its collection but that is never going to happen.

Keith Iddon ● 4806d

"My experience tells me that the bin men are very good but the recycling bin men not so"Totally agree. Our bin men (actually one is a lady) are fantastic. Always friendly and helpful. And when the fox or cats have ripped open the bags they go out of their way to try and pick up all the bits and pieces. The recycling lot are indeed another story and even when they drop pieces they couldn't be bothered to pick them up.

Steve Taylor ● 4806d

Oh 'eck.  No, my card showed the correct date for the collection, plus my neighbours were all on the ball which helps us all prompt each other!  Our rubbish bin men are great and very cheery.

Sarah Felstead ● 4806d

If you have transport, it's all so much more convenient and without anxiety to deliver all one's recycling to the bins at Morrison's Car park. Job done!Then there's only the 1/3 of a black bag of non recyclables to leave out for the bin men.

Jim Lawes ● 4806d

My experience tells me that the bin men are very good but the recycling bin men not so.Have had various boxes,bags etc. disappear and some things left out not collected for no apparent reason.They are suppoosed to leave a card explainiong why they haven't taken something but they don't bother.The recycling organisers at the Civic are very helpful though and if the recycling collectors were as diligent there would not be an issue.

Keith Iddon ● 4806d

go to:    www.hounslow.gov.uk/recycling

Steve Taylor ● 4806d

having only recently moved from one area of Brentford to another I was already unclear as to what day rubbish was collected in any event.  However, I noticed the lorry collecting early on Thursday and rushed out complete with all the miscellaneous recepticles, blue bag, green bag, white bag, black bag, green box, green food bucket - however the only things collected were the recycling box and the black bag.  I therefore had to drag all the others back in.  I am not au fait with these blooming bags as where I lived previously had recycling bins and giant wheelies for general rubbish.  Are all these bags supposed to be collected on the same day or are there generally different days for each bag or, are my collectors just plain temperamental?

Bernadette Paul ● 4806d

The problem is that most people didn't leave their rubbish out because the collection cards sent out by the Council had the wrong dates and the Council Website made no mention of corrected dates for after the Jubilee weekend. This week is going to be chaos as they will have double to collect. Lets hope someone had the brainpower to cater for it!

Steve Taylor ● 4806d