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"The big problem with your road is that it is so narrow..and is thus prone to this kind of pavement damage...." It isn't really narrow - it is just not made to take some of the enormous lorries the builders yards send out for their deliveries.One side has cars parked on it and even the huge lorries can go past without knocking the cars.  Problems do arise when people try and park on both sides of the road causing a sort of chicane for everyone to negotiate.The longer wheel-based lorries also have difficulty negotiating the corners at the other end.  It could easily be agreed that a road is only suitable for up to a certain length vehicle and delivery companies have to look this up before turning up with a lorry that could fit Concorde on the back. One end of this street was laid out incorrectly (so I was told by the builders son in law years ago) so that end is very narrow.Officials out on a day trip agreed this a couple of years ago and said they would tarmac half the pavement and try and put the trees back but they re-laid paving slabs - without any extra strength surface underneath and they were smashed within days.  One householder will tell you the line of slabs outside her house went crack crack crack crack and another said the ones outside her house went pop pop pop pop pop."If the lorry just parked on the roadway..nobody else would perhaps be able to drive past .."There are two entrances to this road and if you can't get through one way we all go around to the other!As far as the building work goes - we are a very varied Community from all walks of life, backgrounds cultures and ages.  There are shift workers from the Hospital and babies and people living with carers and, well, everything between life and death.Most of the houses are family houses and when a family lives in a house and develops it there is normally their own worry about not having the builders arrive at 7.00am and still be there at 10pm, just because there is just enough light to see when sitting on the roof to throw tiles into an empty skip.A great deal of the casual labour is available to work in Community quiet time.  The vans pull up at say 7.00 am and out pop - the most I have seen is 7 - workers from the back.The skip lorries can arrive at about 7.30 onwards.  Bank holidays, Saturday afternoons and Sundays keep the whole thing ticking over and as they are completely taking the houses apart the work goes on for months and months ... Increasingly there are a number of the smaller original style houses which are grabbed by investors who have no tie to the community and want to get the work done using the cheapest methods.  If the considerations of living inside a community are not spelt out as a working requirement then there is often complete disregard of the families living around their building site. Apart from destruction of the footpaths there is dust and dirt and builders sand across the pavement for pedestrians or kiddies to walk or ride their bikes through.We also have to put up with and very noisy ways of working on the building sites and a complete lack of available support from within.I spoke to an insider and specifically asked that they ask a builder who was starting on block pavers to check they were going to use a cutter.  The casual workers have been sitting in a cloud of ‘grated brick’ dust ever since as they set about grinding each brick to shape.  Think about cutting a tile for the bathroom and why you would not want to grind each tile to shape.  As the workers from the backs of the vans work with little or no H&S gear there is not a mask or pair of goggles in sight.  Legislation between Local authorities and H&SE are, I think the word used was fogged – which I took to mean they haven’t kept up with the ways people are working and many of the responsibilities the pair share should be clarified.There is an amazing amount of cash floating around.  One guy told me he bought the house for £315 thou’ and it is costing him £100 thou’ to do up.I heard a rumour that there are a large number of lottery winners around. PS: If you could hear this posting, the grinder is going strong as I write.  No bonfires at the moment but bricks being “ground” is somewhat akin to the dentists drill. 

Sarah Felstead ● 7184d

On Monday at 11.00 David Palmer is coming out to talk about the pavements.May I take a liberty?And ask you to e-mail him with any comments you might have – either from the pictures I have placed on the forum – or from your own experience. david.palmer@hounslow.gov.ukPeople all around here ring up and complain to the Council and the residents association - NERA (unpaid, all volunteers) - take their walks around the area to explain what is going on and then go back home, as do the Officials from within.I have had numerous Officials out here - and spent hours discussing the overall situation before finding the forum and posting that first message.  Then I was able to show you by photographs, what I was indeed talking about, in these meetings.Unfortunately the comment to officials about the possibility of a frail person dying after a fall or being seriously injured, was also was detailed on the thread. Councillors have been out and had the tour, admittedly just of this street, but the issues reflect what is going on more widely.  Councillors have canvassed across these slabs – what more experience do they need?The Conservatives used a photograph with a “tell us where this is, tag” – and they have since told me that many people contacted them saying that this was a photo from their own street. …!The point is, and was, it is serious and has been and will always be a serious matter.  We are up to a number of people who have fallen over and seriously hurt themselves – in a short period of time.If everyone involved in this just takes their small bit of information and runs off with it, all this does is generate some pointless discussion and increase everyone’s work load for 5 minutes.  The photos probably make much mirth.I have had copies of countless complaint letters distributed to Councillors – from them attempting to draw the issue to the relevant department, within.  Again the Volunteers are doing the work – but where are the paid people “within” identifying a situation which needs action in a different way (move with the times Hounslow Council).  If they own their job this should be an integral part of their job, of which, pooling information is essential.The builder in charge of a development – who has already said he can’t speak English so how he expects me to hold a conversation with him, I do not know – tried to grab the camera from me this morning when I had a photo of a lorry doing its delivery on the crossover, which is deteriorating fast.  He then proved he did indeed know two words, which describe a sexual act.  Is this becoming a part of an acceptable way of working, too?I have said previously that it is very important that there is somebody in charge who understands that skip lorries should not be driven into the neighbours driveway (the comment I had after the skip driver denied he had been up by my front door, was ‘show me the damage’) or over the pavements, and that the person can hold a conversation in English.I have to be there for every delivery to stop them driving up into our driveway – and there is obvious evidence that a heavy delivery lorry has caused damage.  As with the pavements – Hounslow Council does not lay smashed slabs – we had a flat expensive driveway a short while ago.It took 3 visits with the skip driver and my appearing with the camera and he now does a beautiful manoeuvre on the road surface – which does not involve the pavement or my driveway - and I have said there, he can do it, with a smile.I am not going to skulk behind the curtains – so where is the directive from the council as to how people should work within the borough – and where is the enforcement of that directive?  We could all use their support!I do not believe that the delivery drivers have been told that they are expected to work in a particular way and I don’t believe that the information is available to people doing building work telling them to make sure that their builders work in a particular way.  Not meaningfully, anyway.Removing the family builder who knows his rules and regs (is expected to know his rules and regs and has to charge more for it) means, I think, that the delivery people work by chance now – and the working practices have built up from this style of working and evolved into the mess the area is in, now.Of course – I am quite willing to believe I am wrong – but although I have suggested getting rid of pavements and pedestrians I haven’t heard anyone enthusiastically backing this – but then again I haven’t heard anyone enthusiastically backing any other solutions within!Maybe ‘moving with the times’ is to have pavements in this poor state and to let the builders get on with it.I am looking forward to meeting David – maybe he can be the link pin to getting these issues resolved.Else, he will just be one, in a long line of people, who know about the problem.

Sarah Felstead ● 7187d

A week on from falling on the pavement my knee is very sore and I can't walk far.I went past 'the spot' a couple of days later on a dry day in the car.  There were dark marks left on the slab - where the blossom had been removed by a clear up team a couple of days before my fall.  My neighbour coming up behind me could still see the skid mark several minutes later and it felt slippery to the touch of my fingers, as I sat there in the pouring rain.I described this to the pavement engineer and several other people last week.  No doubt the residents association have also been on the blower before somebody else had the same accident.  These dark marks - which was scum left under the blossom - have now been cleaned up.  Under a wet pavement they would not have shown up.  Had the blossom been there, I would have had a visible sight of a potential danger.  I have said before about linking jobs together - so why were the pavements under a tree shedding blossom not given a quick extra check over and maybe a bit of a scrub?  Bet there are quite a few falls under trees such as mine and then the tree gets the blame – not the work done under the tree.Another question raised by several people on my travelling around the area is about work not being done to a set standard. Somewhere I have repeated one neighbours comment about the pavement replacement team doing a job with such a poor under surface that it was 'as if they were making 2 jobs out of the one'.  I don't really need to add my opinion.I went over to photograph the slabs  and in walking to the spot I have been able to look at the ‘cleaner pavements’ following the attention by a small team of three or so street cleaners 'doing overtime' (their words) on a weekend to tidy the weeds leaves etc from the slabs.  This was the weekend before my fall.If anyone had bothered to wander around behind them you would find piles of the sticky blossom and leaves etc all gathered together in little piles (some big piles too) - and then left - ready to blow back across the pavement as soon as the weather dries up.Checking the quality of the work done in the Councils name is an essential part of assessing contracts.  Even the possibility that somebody might do a spot check might be enough to ensure a job is done properly.  People working on the pavements here, work in isolation from other teams working within the area and I suggest their work is not checked. My photographs have been removed by photobucket and I can’t get an answer from them if they will be put back if I pay the yearly unlimited band fee – do any of you know?  Being new to this new fangled internet stuff, I did not realise they might get into a huff if lots of people checked out the photos.    :-(

Sarah Felstead ● 7188d

Thanks Richard.Spoken to a couple of people from within - just had another phone call.  David Palmer is coming out for a tour with Cllr Reid (they are contacting her) and an engineer.I have referred the callers back to speak to David as I think he has a fair overview of what has been happening and would be the best link between all interested parties (well, I think so).I will probably have to see the Dr in a few days for the knee - the pain is much better but it feels numb and floaty and strange - as if it’s moving.  Slept upstairs last night and had a shower so I felt a lot better.I know the pavements are bad (I do?!  ;-)) but I wanted to walk to the Post office and not drive down there so I put on my sensible shoes.  I watched the ground - as everyone around here does - but this slab was slippery!  Didn't bet on that - my right foot went fully onto the surface of the slab and went from under me as if I were standing on ball bearings - and I landed on my left knee.My neighbour coming up behind me said she could clearly see the skid mark on the wet surface, left behind by my foot, and it was still there several minutes later.  The run of slabs where the slippery one was is three which were changed when they did the work around the tree a few years ago.  The old paving slabs have a rough surface but these three do not.I am hoping that the whole situation can be worked through and resolved for once. We are now up to:2 falls inside my street - one my MIL and another the Mother of one of my neighbours.1 fall where the lady now has restricted movement and has lots of operations (she developed a blood clot on the knee after her fall, so you can imagine what I was worrying about)1 fall opposite where, the last lady fell and she broke her hip, and spent weeks in hospital.1 fall where the lady, who was in poor health, went to post a letter and tripped up, and did not survive the operation.  She died.1 fall where the lady tells me her hand is still not rightAnd me - and I haven't gone around asking about people who have fallen - these stories came out of the woodwork as other stories are related.  A couple, as you know, were detailed as they happened on this thread.:-(

Sarah Felstead ● 7193d

My three Councillors - Conservative - Cllr Barbara Reid, Cllr Sheila O'Reilly and Cllr Peter Carey are handling this.  Any questions can go to Cllr Barbara Reid.The issue is too complex and large for one small group of Cllrs to deal with.The subject breaks down into many issues which probably start with the way information is handled and the team work between sections at the Civic centre.  There are also a few grey areas of responsibility (as explained by a lady at the H&S Executive, to me last week).My understanding, I think, is that legislation and the way the Council and H&S Executive and Immigration respond to developments has not kept a pace with current working practices.  If I am talking double Dutch then that is because explanations of what I am saying would be lengthy.The Conservatives even acknowledged the issue by wandering back to my street to take a photograph and use it in their election promise canvassing leaflet, or whatever it is called.  The end product is the smashed slabs - so how do we get to that point?The rest of the campaigning Councillors are all well versed in the state of the streets within their area so should be able to confirm the issue is huge.  The lady from the H&S said it is a nationwide problem - so little ole Hounslow is just in the middle of it!Some of the original photos you may remember I sent in via the Chief Executives office (hand delivered, I hasten to add) for him to peruse and then to go to the Isleworth & Brentford Committee.  I understand that they had some discussion about slabs during their next meeting.  This must be minuted.Nothing has been done to sort anything out - which my photographs prove!  Is there a lack of will, or lack of a starting point?Since I started this thread (and I had been having conversations with the Council for some time before this) there have been 2 serious accidents that we know of.It is going to take more than one Agency to solve (I think I am up to Council (several departments), H&SE, Police, Immigration, skip and delivery companies and most importantly the people doing the developing work beit the householder or the  developer/builders) but it could start with a couple of people untangling what is going on and draw up who is involved and needs to work together to resolve it. I went for a walk with a friend the other night for the first time in ages and nearly fell down a hole in the pavement of a new development - which I haven't yet taken photos of, chaps.The builders appear to have filled the square paving slab size hole with yellow sand so I avoided the sand in the dwindling light and realised, as there was a couple of deep footprints in it that somebody else earlier had not been so lucky - their foot had sunk down about 4/5 inches.I spoke to the family whose Mother fell down and has had lots of operations on her knees and now has limited mobility.  She is very happy that I show the photograph I took of her damaged knee - so I have sent it to a number of Councillors involved in the Policy making or well able to tap into the Civic centre to get to the people who might get some consideration applied to this issue.In my e-mail I have specifically asked that they 'walk the slabs' - view the area on Northumberland Avenue because it is an extreme example of damage to Community property, which is now typical of building work around here.In one fall swoop they can experience the area where a couple of minutes stroll joins the dots where 4 elderly ladies have seriously hurt themselves - and where possibly one died after her fall.Coming to view these slabs which are not in their specific geographical ward, but are collectively within their overall responsibility for the Borough, I think is important.As far as dealing with the starting point, I hold a Civil service viewpoint.  Take the information at the point of contact and take it on to the point where it is dealt with.  Every single Councillor; every person who has read this thread; every person who has seen the photographs; spoken to me; or individually experienced the sight of damage is the first point of contact for this information.You are the first point of contact.

Sarah Felstead ● 7203d

Howard.So try writing something sensible for a change - to the council as a complaint to back up my complaints.  The photos are the true picture - and if you are uncertain then go for a walk!  You are welcome to post your complaint letter and then to follow that up by posting the (if you get one) reply, too.  The best response to any of the complaints was to one of my neighbours who, being a solicitor, wrote the same letter as me, out of her concern (everyone except the developers are concerned).  As she used legal jargon they got all responsive and wrote legal jargon back.  Didn't mean it got any further, but it all 'sounded good'.As far as the Council goes - there is nothing positive to say about this subject.  Hounslow Council and the administration fails dismally in my experience - and this thread proves that too.The 'reasons' that it fails are the interesting points and hopefully the new elected membership will open that up for discussion.  As many of them have made complaints themselves perhaps they will be the first in line asking why this hasn't been dealt with.Praise is not due here.Your last question Jim is one you can answer yourself.I notice that the Isleworth & Brentford Committee cancelled a meeting recently as they had nothing to discuss.Maybe this isn't important a subject at all and there is nothing for me to be concerned about, or for you to get your knickers in a twist over.  I have one photo of a wall which the owner has built right in the middle of the pavement - maybe that is the answer.  Elderly folk don't walk around here, they are trapped indoors because of the pavements and the drivers want the extra road space - so why not abolish pavements?

Sarah Felstead ● 7206d

Well this is entertaining stuff.Where should we start......I have read through many of these attachments with a clear and open mind. Understandably there are issues with the footways and carriageways around the borough and this is not a matter that people take lightly with regards to health and safety matters when the elderly are concerned. The fact that your neighbour has purchased an electric scooter to travel up and down Brentford in is a joke. Being 80 years old and behind the wheel of a giant radio controlled car is not the safest idea iv'e ever heard. Have you seen what one of those electric contraptions can do to a toddler or baby.....very concerning stuff. It will probably be ok for this lady to drive her contraption but only if her eyesight is good enough. If you can't see a few raised slabs and walk safely over or around them what chance does a toddler have when a buggy travelling at 15mph driven by Stevie Wonder comes flying up a raised pavement after negotiating the Great West Road (More luck than judgement)and mowing down all in its way.Im sorry but the lady wants some wheels and its not for her safety but its for burning some rubber.Anyway back onto the footways. Im sure that the footways in and around where you reside are in a terrible mess because of the 195 messages you have posted on this website. I will say that there are some shockers and you only have to look at the Chiswick website which has shown some real quality road kills waiting to happen but.....for the moment bare with me.I feel the council are on a hiding to nowhere. The footways are deteriorating just like the drainage, water supply pipes, water mains and homes. Its impossible to be resurfacing and maintaining every section of footway in the borough just because it looks untidy. Chiswick residents suffer from the problem of tree roots lifting the footway thus causing trip hazards. Interventions by all councils must be used or your council tax bill will look like a betting slip used by Wayne Rooney. Chiswick residents don't want the trees removed and don't want tarmac humped over the footway either. What do you do? David Blaine couldn't escape this problem. As you may know trees outside a property raise the value of a property. As you can imagine Chiswick residents like this fact and want more trees, more paving slabs and not trips. I suppose the Highways people are in no mans land. I also noticed in some of your statements that there is nothing being done about the vehicles driving over the footway and causing damages. Good on you that you have noticed and are doing something about it. Telling people on this website what the council is doing about it is amazing. Please confirm if you have posted 195 complaints with the council in the same time period you have been on this website. Also can you tell me how many of your neighbours speak to you? I bet you come out of your front door and the street goes silent..... it would look like a scene from the ok coral. People looking through their curtains worried about getting grassed up about driving over a broken slab which is perfectly fine and not causing any danger what so ever. Not my last point but I want to go and have a glass of wine and relax.......When taking a picture of a vehicle crossing or damaging a footway remember to take a photo of its number plate......If its to stand up in court as photographic evidence its got to be exact not Joe Bloggs from Superskips. A paving slab can be purchased for around £2.50 when purchased from a reliable cheap supplier.Howard MarksReality has left the Building.

Howard Marks ● 7206d

David – Yes I remember your quote and I have your e-mail somewhere, too.  It seems you are right - about allowing things to fall apart and TW8 should stand impressed by the fact you posted about an area in Brentford – whereas I am only on the borders … ;-)(no comments,  puh-leese!).The trouble I am finding is the answer the ‘powers that be’ seem to come up with is - pouring more money into the bottomless pit and not taking a step backwards to work out why the money is needed in the first place.  I seem to be hitting my head against the computer screen, on that one.I am not alone … and no you can’t hear a strange echo as I say that.  I have had e-mails and lots of conversations where people start telling me about the pavements and the problems they encounter from them – and the developers – and the lack of management of the area from the Council.  I have also had a number of conversations where I am being told developers are bragging that they have ‘unhealthy relationships’ with people at the Civic Centre, who the developers believe turn a blind eye to what they are doingI have previously dismissed this because I am of the opinion that the way this process is used allows people to think this is the case.  I am coming around to the belief that this may be naive and maybe there is more to it because I certainly think that somebody is ignoring the evidence.  I have sent enough of it in to officials – had people out on day trips to show them - the Brentford and Isleworth Committee and a CD to the Zec  –  people have said enough about it – and it has been in the papers, so it must be true (the last bit is tongue in cheek).If the Council followed the laid down guidelines and reviewed them and applied them consistently, it would be more obvious what was going on.One conversation yesterday a man had been watching me photograph a raised kerb and then approached me and asked if I would tell him what I was taking photos of.  We chatted and I asked him why he thought I might be taking photos - and he said he didn't know - so I asked 'did he walk around the area or drive?' - he said he drove - and then added but he walked into Hounslow - so I asked him what he thought of the pavements - and well ... ... @#~*&%^"£^>?@@~#]{[+=%&$  ... ...  was the conversation for the next few minutes as he told me how bad they are!The point of the photographs is really to show you all just how bad and extensive the issue is.  Saying the pavements are smashed and the heavy lorries are the major cause – is not the same as showing you the photograph of how badly they are damaged.  You can easily see how a frail person would fall, and how dangerous a fall might be.  The local residents association has regular meetings about the state of the pavements; I will be talking to their Chairman shortly.  You see, everyone knows about the situation.I have also been told that it takes a number of people to complain – in order to get anything done – so over to you – can you all send in complaints about how your Council Tax is wasted on the pavement purse?Apparently they have to count the complaints and account for them.  Shame they don’t have to count the accidents and deaths and account for those too.  Will it be you, your child, parent or a neighbour next?

Sarah Felstead ● 7247d

I didn't think I could get anything on the end of this thread, Ina - so thanks!The gap was filled on 'Developers working practices in LBH' - in case anyone is still with me.I went for the first evening walk in ages with neighbour last night.  I wrote earlier about us wandering along in the evenings and as a development started we would end up walking in the road to avoid the smashed slabs.Then neighbour took to wearing hiking boots (proper ones, chaps, not soft soled fake ones) and as this was the first walk in ages we just took it easy - avoiding areas which we know are pretty poor, by wandering out into the road.  On one of these stretches walking in the road, as we climbed back onto the pavement she tripped up.  Luckily, she didn't hit the deck, just did one of those stumbling windmill thingies where you throw your arms around and make strangled noises as you struggle to remain upright.When we inspected the offending slab I realised that it was one which I had been intending to photograph but the camera battery went flat - will wander and take one later today, for you to peruse.  Definitely needs a £2 coin or maybe an egg cup to mark it.  I have only photographed a small number of the slabs because of the strain on the camera – battery then memory card.Turns out her hubby, who walks several miles a day to and from work, fell over a raised bit of something or other in St Johns road area and has just spent a week off work. Doctors certificate, antibiotics – this tab being picked up by the NHS.  He had his hands in his pockets and after the stumble he wasn’t able to do the windmill thing - so hit the deck.

Sarah Felstead ● 7248d

Do it yourself pavement and crossoversYou know I can’t actually work out when we were told – “you don’t touch the pavements”.We must have been told at some time - because we have known this for as long as we have been householders – along with “be careful of the pavements” which included parking or driving on them.Maybe I have got this wrong and it doesn’t really matter, especially as there is this perfectly good pavement replacement service ready to up and mend ‘some’ of the dangerous bits.It is much cheaper to get your own pavement people in when you want a job done – an extra wide crossover perhaps?  A “do it yourself crossover”?  -  can be far cheaper and less complicated than having to pay fees to have a survey done by an official on a day trip out, in a few weeks time.One crossover, which has been shown to all on my tour, has never been right and did something to the road surface so has been a permanent dip/hole full of water ever since.  The pavement replacement people talked to the road surface replacement people about this one and sent out a team to line the hole.  Bear with me, I have an untrained eye, but, a lined hole is still, may I suggest, a hole.  And the side of this lined hole appears to be breaking up now.  Pedestrians trying to cross at this point may end up tripping over the side of the dip if the thing falls apart much more.  The perpetual puddle probably stops this from happening at present.So why should there be any bother with a householder/developer tackling the street?  There is that funny little subject of H&S and I did think another concern of the Council might be the quality of the work – and maybe the strength of the concrete used?  If there are qualified people fiddling with the pavements then one of the qualifications might be on the standard strengths to use for such materials.  Thing is – as the developers and the unchecked casual labourers and developers work around here – there is nobody wandering around to check what is going on.  There are signs that building work is going on so a short chat with the developer will quickly establish if they are a registered builder or an .. unregistered builder … and whether they will be careful as they work, or want to cut corners to get the job done more economically – sometimes at the ratepayer expense.If somebody asks for money to put in the pavement pot – shouldn’t somebody else be asking why the money is needed and from what other sources is the pot topped up? – damage funds, fines, householder contributions?

Sarah Felstead ● 7254d

At the beginning of this subject I didn’t have this site to post on – and like many people relied upon talking to people at the Council to address issues with the pavements.Many people didn’t bother, seeing it as a useless waste of energy trying to tell the Council that damage was occurring – many did bother and officials would pop up from time to time and run around the street and/or neighbouring streets then disappear back to the Civic Centre.Often the pavement had been so badly damaged – particularly where the tree had been removed and a heavy lorry could drive along a complete stretch. – that the pavement replacement service would be back out within a few days to re-lay the footpath – in isolation from the developers working.In other words, the pavement replacement service would come out and spend tax payer’s money without asking why, after 70 odd years, they were being smashed.  Hence the neighbours would watch on over the next few days and weeks as they were returned to crazy paving again and a few more people would withdraw from making those important calls to the Civic centre.At the same time a few more elderly folk would decide not to take an evening stroll as it was too dangerous and only a matter of time before somebody fell and really hurt themselves.I had noticed the lovely work which had been done to Wood Lane.  A large amount of money had obviously been set aside to sort out the whole of the top end of the street re-laying the pavements and crossovers – and well, it was so nice to see money being spent – and to see the difference it made – and it did look really nice.  I would drive past on a regular basis and .felt good about the area and the work which had been done.  One day I noticed some building work going on – and the work on the front of the house including the front garden was coming along a treat – but the pavement outside was being completely destroyed!  I was going passed as this was happening – so I got home and called the Council  – I think I got the non response weekend cold line - and then with this new fangled technology – I e-mailed the Councillors to say go and take a look.  I also made a few of the points which I had been detailing to Officials about building work and the damage it was causing to the outside road.Many Cllrs replied – many made comments and many said they would go and check it out – a few said they had been having these same conversations with Officials – but hadn’t been able to get anything done themselves.  Cllr Lamey said the same as me – why not photograph the site as a part of the planning permission and make the developers pay to re-instate the whole thing when they are finished?  I would add on some fines too for any visits or work to the site to make it safe as they are going along.Then I found this site and although I couldn’t post photos I could ask about the situation and you can gather it was quite topical from the outset.  The thing about Health and safety is that you eliminate the obvious risks and although just a walk along the pavements around here will show you the obvious risks – the thread was not started as an I told you so – or a catch you out for anyone – just a casual conversation about a straightforward issue which demonstrates how as a taxpayer an ordinary issue can be ignored or dragged out in to a huge issue because of a lack of a reasoned response from within.After my MIL fell one stretch of the pavement was replaced within a week.  After the death of the lady who fell, I didn’t know how to add anything to the thread – I would like to say that this lady had lived here since the houses were built and last Summer I found her out in the midday sun walking around the corner – I went and joined her to make sure she got home safely – she had been told that she had to exercise to keep her ticking over and she was so determined to do just that – short walks – that she had quite forgotten the strength of the sun.*****************************************Lots of other exchanges have been going on and things are still going on which haven’t yet been added to this thread but may well in time.*****************************************So here you are – the pavement in Wood lane which was smashed and the photo of the result before the pavement replacement service intervened and filled the broken bits with tarmac – if Officials had taken the money back from the developer surely they would have charged and then reinstated the pavement as it was, and not just to mend it Dear Liza with a lump of tarmac in the holes?If you ignore the damage in the photo you can possibly work out how the pavement looked before the few days of building work which did most of the damage.Bet the decision to spend the money on the street took a lot longer!The other image in this photograph which is worth noting is the builders equivalent to dropping chewing gum in the high street – a patch of cement has been mixed on the highway and has left a white patch on the new tarmac.Can you work out why I e-mailed the Cllrs as well as rang into the Council?Another angle of the same footpath follows – The line of bricks along the boundary now shows us how much the public paving has dipped as well as being broken.

Sarah Felstead ● 7255d

Spooky coincidence Nigel that you posted on this thread - I have just viewed my e-mail and was considering whether I can take a frail relative out for a short walk to the end of the street - and which route around the smashed slabs might be best - and as I was wondering this - between the cooking times of the gammon joint (a Delia recipe, chaps) and the nativity play at the church - there you were!Elderly folk often do not pick their feet up but shuffle closer to the ground - and no-one can afford to have any infirmity on these slabs.  Ask any of the elderly folk around here - and any other people who dare to saunter on the slabs rather than use their cars - and they will start a lengthy conversation with you about how it affects their lives and about how they do not go out for a walk.I took a phone call from a neighbour nearby a couple of days ago who had just been accosted by one of her neighbours – she had taken a delivery where she always makes sure she is in to receive it – and the larger than usual lorry had gone across the smashed slabs at the end of her street – the neighbour who was obviously het up (very easy to get het up over this as it restricts freedoms) about the slabs, must have been hiding behind his nets and dashed out breathing fire and puffing like a bluebell railway steam train in his anger.  She was quite shocked but didn’t know about the folk who have fallen and the sensitivities because of it.I did not jest when I suggested you take your life into your hands when venturing to the post box.  I wonder if A&E see an increase of broken hips and limbs from this area at this time of year as people dare to take a chance and wander to post their Christmas cards?  It is a warm day and we have acted as the escape committee to release elderly relatives from their residential home - and they are struck in here unless I drive them to a pavement which is not uneven and smashed - so how far do I have to go do you think?  Richmond?  Ealing?  I know a builder working in Kensington who says they are not allowed to breathe on community property without a chit issued by the building control people – and their building control people must mean it as work stops whilst permission is sought.  Shall we wander over there?Lets all have a lovely Christmas day and pick this up again in the New Year.Regards to you all,Sarah

Sarah Felstead ● 7345d

Hi Sarah et. al.,Did you see this on ChiswickW4; they get no better treatment than we do and LBH seem to be able to screw up anything you care to name - paving stones, leaves, tree roots etc. etc...............________________________________________  Topic: Hounslow council's neglect      Forum Home  Posted by: Sarah Hicks Date/Time: 29/10/05 09:27:00  Yet again we in Thornton Avenue are literally knee deep in leaves. The council tell us we will have are not scheduled to have the leaves cleared until Nov 22nd. Thames Water now have 3 leaks caused by tree roots that they are waiting to repair. Our trees are over-sized and the Council just wants to ignore the problem. Our councillors seem powerless to act.Does anyone have any experience of how to shift the council out of their arrogant complacency? --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Entire Thread Topic Date Posted Posted By Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 09:27:00  Sarah Hicks   Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 13:06:00  Chris Hunter       Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 19:40:00  Diccon Adams         Re:Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 20:53:00  Chris Hunter             Re:Re:Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 21:17:00  Richard Jennings               Re:Re:Re:Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 22:40:00  Chris Hunter   Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 21:07:00  Andrew Weeks       Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 21:35:00  Richard Jennings         Re:Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 21:56:00  Sarah Hicks       Re:Re:Hounslow council's neglect  29/10/05 21:50:00  Sarah Hicks

David Johnson ● 7400d

I am slightly befuddled with this topic – and not entirely sure what to say next.  Looking back over the thread and the other associated threads, it is difficult to put ‘real time’ into the postings, but that is quite an important aspect of what has been going on.  So, bear with me, and can I ask you to step back and consider the following.When I started this thread, newly posting on this forum, I did not think that it would develop as it has.  My original question was set out of exasperation not to set a ‘campaign’ in motion.The word ‘campaign’ was in an e-mail sent to me recently by one of the people who have been receiving copies of more detailed photographs and written communication about this subject, which I had directly addressed to ‘enforcement’ officials at the Council.The point of copying e-mails sent to these people within the Fortress was so that they could follow the trail of what was, and more importantly what was not happening, to correspondence from me the tax payer.  And that has, in itself been a real eye opener.I don’t see myself as on a campaign.  I actually see myself as a regular tax payer, as most people are, valuing the area and Borough in which I live where hopefully my money is spent wisely and distributed with some real value to support the development and improvement of  services we all need.I know I am a regular tax payer because one thing which has been repeated to me on many occasions, when I have had occasion to talk to neighbours, is they tell me of how they too have written/telephoned in about this subject and got to the point where they have given up, probably because nobody has given them a considered response or an ‘end answer’.Several people without prompting spoke of the dangerous pavements, in a vulnerable way in that it is something which really affects them.Several people have floated ‘not paying their Council Tax’ – an idea or consideration which they would not follow through because they won’t step out of line or make a fuss, but ‘saying’ it does express a sentiment.  People in general if they make a comment do it positively and wish it to be explored and considered fairly.  If they aren’t going to get an individual reply then it would be nice to have a general reply from the ideals which the Council are working to, so we can all keep up with which is workable and which is not.  We are not an unreasonable bunch.  I suppose these ideals are the policy documents and the interpretation of how these should be applied so everyone knows how to use them.  I imagine this is all written down and maybe applies to a great deal of what goes on ‘within’ but it certainly has no place in being applied, from my experience, in my dealings over this matter.IMHO it might be useful to define communication.  In my case it has been phone calls and letters and more phone calls and letters.  I had officials out on tour.  They said they would do this that and the other.  None of which happened.  I then used this forum as a method of detailing some of what was going on.  I sent e-mails and I even hand delivered a CD of photographs in to the Chief Executives office with a request that he view it and then pass it on to the Area Committee.  This all happened before my Mother–in–law had a serious fall on the pavements I had been talking about.  It may or may not be the case that another elderly lady has also fallen on a raised slab.  Her husband will tell you how dangerous the pavements are – he told me.  He pointed out to me the area she fell across a garden –the other side of the wall ‘between those two bushes’.  I popped around the other side (it was pouring with rain) and although the pavement is quite flat – right where he pointed there is a raised slab.We have lived in this area for a long time – and moved here around 18 years ago.  We had an extension and our builder (a family guy who still works in the area) took great care with his way of working.  He didn’t work past the hours he was allowed to.  He made sure he was here, on site, when a delivery was made.  He laid down boards on the footpath to protect the paving slabs.  It wasn’t difficult to do – and if he couldn’t be here, he had somebody else on site to do this.  We had skips, mixers, deliveries, just as would be expected, but at the end of the project – there was absolutely no damage to the pavement or road outside.  I imagine this way of working was incorporated into his costs and he would not and did not cut corners to cut costs to him at the expense of anyone else.When the trees started to die off  and more and more cars were using the street, a new pattern of driving developed – along the pavements.  Often it was associated with delivery lorries to the houses with casual labour being used on building work.  To begin with it wasn’t too much of a problem.  People would ring or write in (well I have been told by lots of people they have written about the trees) and ask for the tree to go back and complain about the broken paving slabs.  The tree bit was ignored (later developing into - it isn’t a main road so we ‘no can do’ trees) but the pavement replacement service went into action, replacing whole runs of slabs at a go.  These didn’t last long.  The cable company did a grand job at smashing ones which had never seen a wheel arch, and nothing was done to sort this out.I had been going off on evening walks with a friend and as soon as a development started, the pavements were, within days, smashed.  As the development progressed we used to divert out into the middle of the road to avoid the area as it was very difficult to walk across them as they became irregular, and uneven, stepping stones.  At the end of the development the area behind the wall, on the development was absolutely beautiful – very expensively and nicely developed.  The other side of the wall was a total mess.  The next thing would be the appearance of white arrows drawn on the ground, and shortly after this the pavement replacement service would pop up and the area would be reinstated to its flat state.We got quite cross about this as it appeared that the pavement purse was picking up the tab.  At this point I wrote and phoned the Civic centre – the point being that I thought at the start of a development they could agree the state of the slabs – and agree a way of working which protected the slabs and then at the end of the development, if there were any broken, the developer, not the public, should fork out.  I knew it could be done!I forget the order of the conversations and the discussions I had – or when and where the officials came out with me.  It isn’t really important to this stage, anyway.What was important was the damage to the pavement at the upper part of Wood Lane which sparked off the latest run of pavement communication.The whole stretch of pavement at that end of the Lane had been really neatly replaced and looked – well, smart.  Must have cost a bob or two but the difference was significant.  I was pleased to see some money being spent which made that difference.Driving along one day, as it was happening I saw a development where the HGV’s were crossing the pathway and destroying the paving.  Using this new fangled technology I e-mailed Cllrs on the Brentford & Isleworth committee and wrote to the Fortress asking that they take a detour and view it for themselves.  I had a variety of replies from Cllrs and several saying that they had difficulty getting anywhere with this sort of destruction, when making comments about similar events in their area.  To cut a long story short, and after lengthy discussions with a variety of people I had officials out who I discussed what I had seen, and was seeing day by day.  The fortress said that they would charge the developer.  Somebody could check if this happened as it was left and only a couple of months ago a lump of tarmac was used to mend the damaged bit.  I have a photo somewhere of the damage – it may have been on the CD.If I had said to you, I was getting this sort of a response to comments I was making and letters and phone calls I was detailing, you might not have really taken it on board.  Viewing this thread, with this in mind should however (I am seriously am not doing an I told you so) give you some understanding of how something is not working. The other thing which might be useful to explore is how the communication goes ‘within’.  I mean a CD to the Chief executives office?  And not even an acknowledgement that he looked at it.  On here I think I said something about being concerned that he might have been using it as a Frisbee to take out pigeons in the park?  Where do you think a comment such as that might have a basis?  I know that Cllr Smart and Cllr Reid did quite a lot of talking about it, Cllr Reid was responsible for the officials popping up to talk to me.  Cllr Smart spoke to a Helen Kent and she sent me some stuff which my e-mail couldn’t cope with – and I didn’t receive it by snail mail which might have been a starting point when having difficulty with e-mail.  So, having raised the subject with the Chief Executive and the Brentford and Isleworth Committee – how did the officials get on with working out the issues and a resolution?Councillor O’Reilly has also been out in the short time she had held her post, taken lots of information and has some ideas about our road in particular.  I have just received a phone call – and because of this call I am not sure who I am having a pop at now – I don’t really care – as you will understand in a minute.I did send a number of e-mails to Adam Beamish as well as David Palmer.  The copies went to a number of other people, as I said previously  These e-mails were to Mr Beamish and to David Palmer.  I had several responses from David Palmer – and none from Adam Beamish – until I mistakenly oversized the last lot of photos and filled his mail box.  At which point he wrote “Dear Mrs. Felstead,Without wishing to be rude, I would be grateful if you would remove my personal email address from your distribution list.  Should you wish to contact me regarding planning enforcement matters, my email address is adam.beamish@hounslow.gov.uk or you can telephone me on (020) 85835173.Thank you.”So maybe somebody can correct my etiquette.  An e-mail addressed to an individual is surely the same as a letter to that individual?  CC as in copies circulated are incidental information unless a person wishes to take the matter up?If the broken pavement are caused by developers from a lack of concern and are attached to planning permission, surely that is planning enforcement?  If not, maybe he could have written and explained.  I am not having a giggle here – I may be writing about it slightly off beat but this is a real issue.I have just heard been told that the other lady who I spoke about was mentioned in church this morning.  They are arranging her funeral.

Sarah Felstead ● 7407d

Boring as it may be chaps, I didn't want to write this again.  It is from Beware of Stalker traffic wardens over on W4.The reason I have been writing about this situation, in this way, is because I have been down the route of phoning - then writing to the Fortress - then e-mailing Councillors - and I have even been the cause of a great deal of down-time at the Fortress when going on visits out with officials.  Nothing has changed - oh, well - one thing maybe and that was the guilt trip I was left with after the two officials early last summer (or maybe it was the summer before?  I would have to confirm in my diary, remember I said this has been going on for ages).I had been told by several people that the departments at the Fortress did not talk to one another.  I don't think the people mentioning this were indicating a culture of pompous personalities, just that the way the whole thing was structured jobs and pathways of working did not cross.  Structures normally are formed by the organisation themselves and are them added to by the people working the system.  I am quite a positive person, live in hope is a good motto, and the people I spoke to all appeared the same when talking about the issues involved in their work for the Council. This is why I keep going on about talking to the front line people as an ongoing part of customer service.I then started the thread on TW8 about How much does it cost to replace a paving slab?  At the time I could not post pictures - but I did send in a CD with examples to back up what I was saying - one was even delivered to the Zec's office - surely he speaks across structures?  Maybe nobody speaks to the poor chap?  Do they send paper aeroplanes through his letter box when they need something done?  I did ring and ask to speak to him once and was told he was in a meeting and that the information would be passed on, 2 letters from his office one which was elevating the elevation of the issue, and … not a dickey bird.I had decided to take the track that it was a stupid situation, so why not indicate so.  I think most people can see this.  I hope most people can see this.  Anyway, about that guilt trip.  I had been told (many, many, phone calls, at my cost) that the tree department could not replace the tree on the sections of pavement where Lorries were driving along them, and smashing them as they went.  The reason for this was the road is not a main road.  The highways people could however see the sense of the tree, as it would save money and deter pavement drivers.  They could fund, and would fund, a bollard where the tree should be (follow my exasperation, chaps?).  They could not pay for the tree - and could not talk to the tree people to see if a deal could be done - and could not pass the bollard funds over to become a tree fund for that area of pavement.  One section without a tree (the bit under the white van in the photo's) they said they had to replace - I asked them to try and talk to the tree people to see if they would put a tree back before they did this - and they didn't think it would be possible, but they would 'have a go'.  That was my understanding of the time we spent wandering the crazed (!) paving.  I begged them not to bother replacing the slabs as they would be broken again unless other measures were considered - and they said that they 'HAD' to replace them because 'I' had pointed them out to them.  These new slabs were all smashed within a couple of weeks, and most were laid with a gap underneath at the point where their wheels were using it as a road way - and that is where they cracked first.  So, if I had not said a word, they would not have paid out to have them replaced?  There were several other areas in the street which they agreed to take 'special measures' over - and again they were all re-laid with slabs, and again they were all smashed - one area within 2 days.  Crumbs!A recent e-mail from within suggests that bollards are still the pattern of thinking  - so no form of joined up thinking has passed between departments since the officials tour with me, it seems?I was told that Mr Beamish was head of enforcement and the issues I had been writing about were under his responsibility, and that he was a ‘little bit wound up’ about what I had been saying.  This may have been the ‘Hounslow Council – is it a partnership thread on TW8’.If I am allowed an opinion might I suggest that I think he should take stock and a step back and consider whether it is what I am saying or the way it is showing his section and some of the workings at The Council up.?  What else is a girl to do other than bang her head against the nearest developers van?David Palmer, I thought, was something to do with the lead in Customer service?Any way, Richard, are you suggesting that if an official (any of the people I have written to) in this sort of position receives information about a waste of ratepayers money, that they would grin (because of the way it is written) and gloat that it has nothing to do with them, and chuck it in the bin?

Sarah Felstead ● 7412d

I have been correspondence with my Councillors and David Palmer.  In order to demonstrate what I have been talking about I sent these off yesterday."Having come to grips with using son's digital camera and posting on the Brentford Chis-wick and Ealing forums - I thought you might like a potted view of what I am taking about? I took my camera out and started here, because there was a useful tyre track across the pavement, on top of the cracked slabs at this point.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01681-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01682-14.jpg The pavement beside the speed bumps in the next photohttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01684-14.jpgCarrying on along the pavement.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01685-14.jpgLooking backwards, having walked further along the pavement.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01686-14.jpgSame position but looking forward again.  The patch of tarmac is interesting because a lot of damage to the pavement was done by deliveries during this development and the crossover was smashed up, I think it was a skip lorry.  I was told at the time this happened the Council would claim the money back from the developer.  Much later (time wise) a white arrow appeared on the pavement and the tarmac was laid.  Was this at ratepayer’s expense?  What about the other damage which was identified at that time?  If the money was re-claimed, it was never used to make good the damage the work had caused!http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01687-14.jpgGoing round the bend (!)http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01688-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01689-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01691-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01693-14.jpg These slabs I was told 'HAD' to be replaced because 'I' had told the Council about them being broken.  The officials (in person) were going to see if they could manage a chat with the tree people to get the tree re-instated.Nothing happened except the pavement was replaced and smashed very quickly.  I asked that they not bother replacing them without taking some additional measures - !  They were laid with a gap underneath, not on a firm surface.  I understand that there are different foundations laid under pavements and the workmen were instructed to lay a weak foundation even though it was obvious a firm foundation was required.  What a complete waste of money.  Who is responsible for linking all this together?  If the workmen arrive on a job and can see that a firmer foundation is required, why can't they call up somebody to get this done rather than making two jobs out of one?http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01694-14.jpgA close up, because I reeeeeally want to show you this waste of money.  So, there!http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01695-14.jpg This is outside the development I have had no success in getting anyone to sort out.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01696-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01697-14.jpgNo tree to prevent sloppy pavement driving.  The road is very wide here and 'three point turns' are often taken by driving along one length of pavement the bit which has now been replaced with tarmac because my Mother in Law had a serious fall) and round onto the this stretch of pavement because that allows the driver to do it in one circle.  Don't ask me what some of the HGV lorries used to do, just guess!http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01698-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01699-14.jpgThe telegraph pole acts as a bollard so the slabs directly beneath aren't too bad.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01701-14.jpgThe other side of the telegraph pole.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01702-14.jpgMost of these were smashed by the cable company as we watched them drive their plant along the pavement here.  No tree.  Spoke to fortress fellow who came out and ran around with a mobile phone pressed to his face talking to the cable company managers.  No action taken to follow this through yet I understood that they were going to be charged for this work.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01703-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01704-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01705-14.jpgDitto - they had to go back onto the road because of the tree.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01706-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01707-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01708-14.jpghttp://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01709-14.jpgThese have been replaced at regular intervals over the past few years.  The pavement is marked up with arrows and the pavement replacement people pop up (you must be getting the idea, now - is this happening all over the Borough?) and they are all replaced.  There is a trippable edge to these as you can see form the picture.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01710-14.jpgThe officials on tour with me agreed that this pavement at this end of the road needed extra measures as the road is much smaller at this end.  THEY said they would do half tarmac and half pavement ... you can see what happened, and this area has been worked on many times since our walk - the first time they were re-laid after the tour - it took around 2 days to smash them.  Records should show how many times they have worked on this area.  I did float the idea that if damage to community property is reported, that the first question might be - WHY so that some attempt is made to stop the same thing happening again.... don't think I got very far with that one.http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01711-14.jpg http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01712-14.jpgCan this not be re-laid, flat?http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a138/undercoverangelshush/DSC01713-14.jpg The same story goes on around the whole area. Hope you enjoyed the tour … !

Sarah Felstead ● 7415d

SarahGood to hear that Cllr Barbara Reid came around to see mother-in-law and yourself. Much tea and cake was consumed I hope and spirits are higher. As for the definition of dangerous, that's a difficult one and probably best that a loss adjuster defines. Look at it more from the point of view that the state of the paving presents a health and safety issue. Both my grandfathers suffered through having strokes, both suffered from mobility issues as a result. Both dragged a foot, one had a calliper. What you or I might see as an easily manageable stretch of paving might be a veritable assault course to someone living with the effects of a stroke. At the end of the day, your mother-in-law has incurred physical hurt as a result of a fall on paving which the LBH are responsible for. The question that I would put to you is this:- Would a reasonable person, having seen the paving at first hand, define the paving as being in a dangerous state? Please don't allow the "intervention" levels that local authorities use for the management of paving to detract from making a claim. The "intervention" levels are there to provide a guide and a grade for setting priorities for highways departments on maintaining paving. As far as intervention levels are concerned, the LBH defines them as: Very heavily used (town centres)- 15 mm trip / rockerHeavily used (shopping areas, schools, hospitals etc.) - 20 mm trip / rockerFrequently used (principal roads)- 25 mm trip / rockerOther (residential roads)- 25 mm trip / rocker

Gareth Evans ● 7627d

Tonight, I have re-read all 101 postings on this topic to try and established why ..after six months of messages ..there seems to be no clear understanding of the wider problem in the street.I'm being bombardeded with messages from various people working on the matter behind the scenes..and I feel that they too are puzzled.  So here is the reply I sent to all of them tonight:xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx...Hello Sarah and all…Golly this saga has gone on for over 6 months on the Brentford Forum…and it still seems to be a bit of a FOG!**You really have to go to the see the street for yourself to see the FULL nature of the problem.**Sarah’s pictures were most revealing about the state of the pavement near her home in Albury Avenue…a crescent off Northumberland Avenue...and their publication has clearly illustrated the paving slab breakage problem in her street.**Tonight I have read every one of the 100plus messages on the Brentford Forum and noted that the saga has been lacking in essential information. Whereas on the 15th October Sarah posted a message to say that the Road was wide…the roadway in Albury Avenue is in fact narrow…..perhaps only two-thirds of a normal street width.  When I visited a business customer in that road recently, I noted that almost every paving slab adjoining a kerbstone  was broken…perhaps one hundred or more in the whole crescent.  Replacing the paving slabs seemed inappropriate and a waste of money…and maybe a tarmac strip should be laid between the kerbstone and a narrower walkway…like the new pavements in Morris Road..on the Worton Road estate.The Road is so narrow that I doubt if two vehicles could pass each other comfortably…without going on the pavement. Certainly when I parked my van outside a house on the east-side corner..I doubted if a lorry or building merchants vehicle would have got by.If paving slabs adjoining the house walls have not been relaid properly.and show signs of poor workmanship...well that is a concern….but be assured that the paving slabs adjoining the kerbstones are both a mess and inappropriate. I feel that this has not been made clear during the course of all these sad postings on the Forum. I have  felt it necessary to state my view..following the deluge of more e-mails from various sources.  Look at the whole crescent…see the narrowness of the road…how are vans, cars, or lorries able to negotiate the road …worst of all park?Face to face contact is the only way forward..together with a visit.  What you see will be “panoramic” clearer than what you “foggily”read!Yours sincerelyJim LawesWith apologies to Sarah…a stalwart Forum poster..and wishing her Mother in-law a comfortable recovery

Jim Lawes ● 7628d

I had an e-mail from inside the Fortress and I quote a section from it. “I was very sorry to read of your Mother's fall and I have asked that the Deputy Highways Manager to re-inspect urgently to review the paving in respect of our intervention policy (previously copied to you). As we indicated in December, after inspection, the cracked pavements did not meet intervention levels and therefore no repair orders were issued.” (I have taken out 2 personal references otherwise this is an exact quote).I think that the cracked pavements are severe enough for you to have taken some action.  The cracked pavements were the cause of this severe fall. I think that the white arrow one of your people placed on the run Valerie fell on, say it all.This run was specifically the run which I talked about on my ‘tour’ asking that the tree be reinstated and was told that the officials who came out would do their best to speak to the tree people to get it back, to stop the erosion of the pavement.  They suggested that it was not normal for the departments to liaise, but that they would try.  (This is all such a load of cobblers).  This run was tackled by a workman who was laying the slabs back in place with a gap underneath – recorded phone call to the Fortress on the Sunday morning.  I did not receive an acknowledgement of my call, or my complaint, which is normal working practice, in my experience.  I called a neighbour out to witness the gap he was leaving and he then shoved some more sand against the edge – but did not attempt to pick up the slabs and re-lay them on a flat firm surface.  I may have even taken a photograph, as he was working, I will have to have a look around to see.  I told your telephone operator that the workman was unhappy with my interest in the way he was working and during the discussion he suggested that I should get a life.  His shoddy workmanship could have taken somebody else’s life? If your workmen are laying slabs in this manner surely there is a likelihood that they will crack much quicker – so if you are paying for poorer quality work, you will have to check for damage on a more frequent basis?  If you are not paying for poorer quality work and you have been told about this happening, why did you not come out, lift the slabs and check?  Why did you not get whoever it is back to sort it out, on his own time and costs?  If this is down to enforcement, then how did you feed my call through to them so that they could deal with the matter?  How did they deal with the matter?  How do enforcement work?  The slabs are neatly cracked where the gap is underneath, so I don’t think ANY OF YOU DID ANYTHING….? :-( Maybe you just fast forwarded the tape when my message came on?  .. Whats that? …...paving slabs?..tsk tsk, how boring – press erase button chaps, nobody will know. :-(If the area has been identified as being ‘at risk’ for damage – surely you should be checking much more frequently?  It normally takes days to crack your new slabs, as I have told your officials.I also have a question for you experts out there.  If you lay a slab on a flat surface it will have a degree of durability and you can reasonably expect it not to move (if  Sunday Sam is not doing the work, of course).  If the surface consists of lots of crazy paving small pieces of slab – is there not an increased risk of movement within these smaller pieces?  If so, should the area known to be of smashed slabs, be checked on a more frequent basis?This disibility discrimination act - can people who are unsteady on their pins, expect to have a firm footpath beneath their feet?  I have said over and over that when you walk around the area you have to look where you are treading and my neighbour often trips when we go out for an evening wander.  She now wears 10,000 mile-trek-boots, to tackle the walk around the block.  What happens when you are blind or have poor eyesight?

Sarah Felstead ● 7630d

Sarah Your patience in this matter is laudable given that the situation has been prevalent for so long and that your approaches to officers of the council have not resulted in significant improvement to the situation. I am personally disgusted that councillors have affirmed to you that they has taken up the matter with Helen Kent and officers from other departments, yet nothing appears to have been done by the LBH to improve the paving. If officers of the council such as Helen Kent, David Palmer and others cannot or will not react to representations from elected councillors, then the council needs to carry out internal inquiries.  You might want to take up a matter with David Palmer or ask a councillor or your MP to do so, after all it was David Palmer who in an e-mail of 07/12/04 21:14:00 who stated “if a vehicle is parked illegally on the pavement, we will issue a parking ticket. Any pavement that is damaged and meets our intervention levels will be repaired”. I wonder if an officer acting on behalf of the LBH has visited the site or has even ascertained if the paving meets “intervention levels”; how many vehicles have been issued with a parking ticket or for that matter, when the damaged paving will be repaired.If it were I’d have blown a gasket or three by now and be spitting feathers. I would have demanded that Highways bollard the area and repair all defective paving given that you and your neighbours appear to be suffering from the effects of uncontrolled pavement parking. Get in touch with any LBH councillor you want, they don’t have to represent your ward and ask them to take the matter up. Write to your MP and demand that she takes the matter up with the council. Get in touch with the local papers and ask them to send someone around. Do anything you can. Today it was your mother-in-law; tomorrow it could be someone else, possibly a neighbour, possibly someone else’s mother-in-law who may never recover from a fall.

Gareth Evans ● 7632d

Sarah Through my experience of working in local government, one usually receives a telephone call or written enquiry from the insurance department, asking if we were aware of the situation, asking what we have done to remedy the situation. If we were aware of the situation and can show that we have taken reasonable steps to remedy the situation, the insurance department would usually ask for a report to justify our position and contest the claim. However, if we were aware of the situation and took no remedial action, then we would have to admit responsibility. The insurer would want their client to show that they have taken reasonable steps to mitigate claims, which in this case, the London Borough of Hounslow appears not to have done.  The London Borough of Hounslow’s own insurance web page states: Anyone can make a claim whether it is successful or not will depend on whether or not the Council has been negligent.Prima facie, it looks as if in this case the London Borough of Hounslow’s insurers would have to admit responsibility on behalf of their clients if you can prove that after alerting officers that the officers have not taken reasonable steps to remedy the situation, which would prove negligence and thereby provide grounds for a claim. You can make a claim for personal injury, damage or loss by notifying the Customer Service & Performance Monitoring Section.  Customer Services & Performance MonitoringStreet Management & Public Protection DepartmentCivic CentreLampton RoadHounslowMiddlesex  TW3 4DNTelephone: Brentford/Isleworth/Chiswick 020 8583 5290 Fax: 020 8583 5295e-mail:  smpp@hounslow.gov.ukFinally, don’t be put off making a claim by the following which is shown on the London Borough of Hounslow’s insurance web page, it’s designed to put individuals off making a claim but your mother-in-law appears to be a victim of negligence, and is therefore fully entitled to make a claim: Any information given may be shared with other appropriate Council departments and outside agencies for the registered purposes under the Data Protection Act 1998.The Council is under a duty to protect funds they handle and may use the information you provide to prevent and detect fraud. Therefore the information you supply may be checked against other Council records. The Council may also share this information, for the same purposes, with other organisations that handle public funds.A claim for personal injury can be made up to 3 years after the incident.  For damage only a claim can be made up to 6 years after the incident.Good luck and let me know how you get on.

Gareth Evans ● 7632d

Gareth, we have taken photos of the area where she fell.  When we got back from the Hospital there was a car parked across the pavement and the area where she fell.  The road at this point does not, ever, require pavement parking.  If the tree were there they wouldn't bother, but would use the kerb as an edge and park on the road.  The rest of the street was virtually free of cars, so there were many road spaces they could park on - but heck, why bother?Youngest son says that he thinks people are reckless trying to walk around the streets (he was in shock at the mess his Grandmas face was in).  He walks carefully on his way to school, so is personally familiar with the ups and downs of pedestrians paths across the area.When considering developments, why not expect the developer to site the parking on their land so they don’t add to the vandalism of the pavements and street?  How many cars will a property going from a three bed roomed to a 5 or 7 bed roomed house require?  surely most of those spaces should be found on the persons own land?  If the land can sustain them the development might be more likely to succeed?At what point does the Insurance company ask the Council to justify what action/inaction they have taken to resolve a potential danger, to avoid an accident?  This may bring things back to a stitch-in-time, because, as you say Gareth the consequences of the accident will often be such, that there is no compensation, adequate.Why should an Insurance company pick up any tab where a problem solving approach has not been the first point of consideration?

Sarah Felstead ● 7632d

Thank you for your concern.  Amazing, isn't it.  Still, there may have been other falls but nobody has been in the position to add them to the thread on a forum, and they have quietly gone on their way (to hospital, whatever).Starts one thinking.  What is the worst that can happen when an 83 year old trips up a raised slab, after threading her way across the other up and down slabs, carefully?  Doesn't bear thinking about, does it.I think I said somewhere that you walk around this area looking at the ground.  They had gone out for a short walk around the block, and gone carefully.  Got right back to outside next door, and she tripped up.  This run of pavements were supposed to be being considered for the tree to be reinstated, but have been marked up several times and the white arrow is almost worn away.  This run of pavements were on my grand tour, which everyone who has been on it, have viewed.  This run of pavements were partially replaced on a sunny Sunday morning, when the man laying them left a gap in the sand underneath just where the tyres of a car would break the pavement (think of how you snap a tile by scoring it and then placing something like a match stick underneath it - this is the other way up).  When I complained to said workman that he was working on a Sunday morning and leaving a gap underneath which would mean the slabs would break again, said workman suggested that I should get a life.I rang the ‘Sunday service operator’ at the time this was going on, saying I wanted my call recorded and registered as a complaint.  This tape must make good listening, come Monday, 8.45 am.  A weekends distress calls to the Fortress.  Maybe it is played at 7.00 am to start the week, coffee and cross-ants and the tape on the loud speaker system?My husband had just moved ahead of her, thinking that he could, and heard her go down.  He checked her over and then brought her indoors covered in blood and her face swollen up as if she had a golf ball against her upper cheek, beside the eye socket.  As she fell, the frame of her glasses dug into her cheek and actually cut into the soft cheek area which was where all the blood was coming from.  West Middx saw her quite quickly and gave her 2 x-rays to make sure the socket cheek bone and nose were all okay.  They were all very nice and even took her to the central station before she left to see her X-rays (much better system seeing the digital photos on the computer rather than waiting for paper envelopes to be moved around between departments).Her eye is almost closed and she has the most enormous black eye and swollen face.  You want to know what she said before she went to bed?… you should see the other guy. 

Sarah Felstead ● 7632d

Sarah Forgive me if I'm wrong but I suspect that the parking attendant service may have been the wrong department in this case. My understanding is that the pavement/footway has been damaged. If I am right in that the pavement/footway had been damaged, from what I have read of your plight, this situation sounds like an issue more for the highways department. The London Borough of Hounslow website states: The Council has a responsibility under the Highways Act to maintain its roads in a safe condition.  This does not mean that it is required to repair every defect of which it is aware, but that it must carry out regular inspections and must have in place a clear maintenance policy.  The policy used by this Council is based on ‘Delivering Best Value in Highway Maintenance’, a Code of Practice for Maintenance Management.For “maintain its roads in a safe condition” I suggest that you take that to mean “maintain its roads and footways in a safe condition”.The London Borough of Hounslow website goes on to state: To ensure that budgets are contained within their allocation, it is necessary to objectively assess the severity, nature and location of defects to determine if repairs are necessary.  Defects will only be repaired if they are regarded as hazardous or serious, and in order that consistent standards are adopted throughout the Borough, clearly defined categories known as ‘intervention levels’ are set.Herein lies your issue because what the local authority means when it talks of ‘intervention levels’ could be a metaphorical stumbling block for you – no pun intended. I would hazard a guess that you live on what could be termed a ‘residential road’. In which case the trip hazard would have to be in the region of 25mm before the local authority would take remedial action such as making safe or replacing the defective part of the footway. Taking the example of the pictures provided by David Johnson and shown on http://uk.geocities.com/wbst@btinternet.com/pinnacle24pavingstone.htm I’d suggest that there are only two paving slabs in the pictures which might be deemed to meet the ‘intervention levels’. One of which would appear to be on the left hand picture, the paving slab between the corner of the planter and the street furniture which I assume to be a column light and on the right hand picture, the paving slab which is almost entirely in the shade, just above centre of the picture. The only real way to resolve this is for somebody to ask Highways to inspect the footway, which they would normally do in a matter of a day or two. Give Highways a ring on 020 8583 4907 or drop them an e-mail, addressed to highways@hounslow.gov.uk  Provide as many details as possible, especially your contact details and nature of the issue.

Gareth Evans ● 7669d

I will tie together some of the above, later on.  My husband has just walked over the slabs which were re-laid yesterday and said they are loose and it is obvious that they have been laid onto loose sand.It is a major concern that one of my neighbours who are delicate on their pins, might fall over when going to the Post Box.  They are not necessarily going to know that the pavement has changed, and will walk in their normal way.  No money could even compensate a person from injuring themselves when they are frail.  We jointly have a responsibility to them.  There must come a point where the Insurance company refuses to pick up the bill anyway?I rang the Civic Centre.  Got an answer phone.  The department doesn't open to take calls until 8.45.  Using the alternative number it was obvious that the operator wasn't geared up to deal with my call, she asked which number I rang and then put me through to another number - and on came the same answer phone message.I tried my 365'ers.  I used up the answer phone message on one (well there was a bleep, sorry!) and the other one extended into a Fax whistle.I rang back the Civic centre number and detailed this to the op.  Doesn't anyone work until 8.45, or is it that they don't speak to people before then?  I was told that a couple of people may be at their desks, but it was considered that they wouldn't be in before then.Is everyone on P/T?  If so, couldn't they arrange shifts of P/Timers - the supermarkets do this very well!  Don't they stagger staffing levels to cover early hours, and evenings?  What do they think the taxpayers want from customer service?  How about some SERVICE!Hang on, Chaps, even the BANKS have adjusted to this idea and some are open on Sundays now.My local residents association lady (very helpful and willing is everyone who isn't paid) had told me in conversations that she had a secret weapon - a man called Clive (Yes, Gerry, I jest not), so I asked the operator if she knew of a pavement person called Clive - and was put straight through to the man his-self.  Amazing what can be achieved with the right number and name.  Clive knows about the building work.  He spoke to the builders yesterday (must have been before the next delivery, and their pavement alterations) and will go out and take another look today.  In all fairness I did tell him about this forum.  At no point do you wish any of these contacts to fail, nor to isolate anyone, so he will probably read this too - Hello Clive!There is an injunction on the property for the next 7 days.The Police came out for a crime prevention check yesterday.  They will visit you and look at your home and advise on locks and general security.  Their number at Chiswick (covers Brentford)Police Station is: 020 8247 6423/4.  The message back from the Police visit is that they were absolutely brilliant!  Advice and ideas about security and suggestions about locks they should be using.  When it works doesn't it work well!

Sarah Felstead ● 7670d

Crumbs!  I will have to substitute another word for Crumbs! because the pavement I dutifully photographed and sent to a 'select' few of you last week, is nearly in crumbs, but not quite.  A better description for the whole thing would perhaps be a rockery?A skip was there a short while ago - a neighbour rang to say she had nearly been knocked over by a speeding skip lorry and when I looked out I watched it doing a 20 or so point turn all over the pavements opposite (I didn't take any photos of those, tsk) and along over the area you have photos of.  The neighbour who rang me has a contact number of somebody who can 'pop up' and deal with this....Isn't it peculiar.  Traffic wardens can pop-up and spend ages focusing on Anna Fords builders, day-pass to decide it is definitely filled in pencil, but are nowhere in sight where they are needed to catch the lorry drivers delivering to the constant building work here!  Maybe I should just ask Anna Ford to tell everyone she has moved to this street and maybe her personal traffic warden will pop up here too?  Just think how exciting we could make his job - actually catching somebody doing something harmful to the community!  How many traffic violations would he get out of a skip driver and a 20 point turn?  How many performance points could he crack in a week in this area?When they are finished, and if there is enough light, I will try and get some current photos? ... hey! who is that crying with boredom in the corner! ... oh gosh, that’s my reflection in the canaries mirror.

Sarah Felstead ● 7672d

Well now, those of you who have received a copy of the smashed pavement with the skip tyre tread marks clearly showing - can you understand what the skip driver might have done, had the tree been replaced and been in the middle of the pavement?  You can see that the newly smashed slabs are in a run of already replaced ones courtesy of the pavement replacement service.Excuse me if I am repeating anything from earlier in the thread, but I was told by the pavement Dept, when I asked for the trees to be re-instated, that they couldn't fund or have anything to do with trees.  I was also told that they didn't liaise with the tree dept (several people told me that, including the suits I took on my grand tour, but they did promise me that they would TRY to converse between departments).  The pavement Dept said that they could fund a bollard to act as a tree - they have achieved this on Northumberland Avenue, where Quaker lane crosses the road - so I did hear right!I had to argue with the pavement people not to place a bollard on the pavement outside our houses (they didn't, thank goodness) and I did also asked them not to bother replacing another run of slabs because unless they put the tree there to act as a bollard, they would be broken again, very quickly.  I was told that as I had informed them of the state of the pavement, they had to replace the slabs.These were all broken within a matter of weeks - it was a quick process for the first to be broken and then a couple or so a day and over a few weeks they were back in the original smashed state.  I decided not to contact them again, at the risk that they might repeat the whole process at Taxpayers expense - your expense, again.When I talked to the tree people (it is soooo obvious why people give up, don't you think?)  I even said I would water the tree.  Initially the person was pleased (surprised even) but thought that I couldn't do that in case I fell under a car as I was doing it, and the Council would be liable.  I try not to fall under cars when I water my front garden, and I have been watering my neighbours front garden for around 10 years or so, without even tripping (do you think that is a boast?).Any one else want a copy of the photo's to see why I am not a happy bunny?

Sarah Felstead ● 7676d

Just delivered a photo CD to the Zecs office asking that 'He' peruse it.  After he has, I have asked that it be passed on to the Clerk to the Isleworth and Brentford Area Committee (Monitoring) and for them to be able to see the contents.Its alright chaps, it doesn't have a slide show of the pavements in the whole road ...  if I were to take such photos it would be easier to take photos of the 'intact' slabs which could be preserved in the History section of the Library for people to view in years to come.Can’t you just hear it?  “We used to have slabs looking like that outside our house!”  Well, we used to as well.  We now have crazy paving with lots of loose infill to slip on, and developing patches of tarmac, springing up in pretty patterns everywhere.  Our Postie is quite dismal about the tarmac, because when there is a frost it becomes an ice rink.  He is very grateful for his pushbike to help keep him upright when the old footsies go from under him.  Goodness knows how the elderly are supposed to cope, well they mainly walk out around it into the road.  Do you think we will end up with pretty patterns on the road in the style of cycle lanes, but for people concerned about their pins to wobble around the roadside area of a kerb, avoiding the tarmac paving?  Why don’t we just look to the future and ban walkers and give the pathways to all the variety of bikes, skates and boys on mopeds?  (Have you seen the kamikaze moped riders coming out of the schools?!)So, why this posting?Go – on, guess.  Humour me, I am feeling a little flippant today.  Plus it kind’ve knocked me for six to find the Zecs door locked.  The two people inside chatting had to stop and let me in, and then I had to ask to come in, as the conversation was going to be undertaken with the door open 10 inches or so – you know the kind of ‘open’ I mean.  They both then started to talk to me at the same time.  Maybe people don’t knock at the door much?So, mind if I start with a clue – a house down the road has put in a planning application….Get the gist?  The developer has started work clearing and knocking things down, having skips delivered and taken away, and walls knocked down.  The whole run of paving slabs outside their house and the adjoining one are … … completely smashed!  This side of the road had mostly intact slabs because the cars parked on that side of the road, preventing even the worse drivers from reaching the pavement as they aimed their car along the road.Crumbs! haven’t I heard this before ... somewhere?

Sarah Felstead ● 7676d