Forum Topic

Democracy? Hounslow?

The two things that  have noticed recently on the forum is that firstly a number of elected and unelected officials on the Council seem to be enjoying thier own little personal power trips at the expense (both financial and otherwise) of the very people that elect them and pay them. And secondly that our local councillors seem to keep very quiet on the subject(s).It is about time that our local councillors remembered that they are elected to represent us the people and it doesn't and shouldn't matter which political philosophy you follow you represent US, YOUR CONSTITUANTS.If Cllr Mayne and his cronies are imposing unwanted and unnecessary CPZ's in this area then our Councillors, Cadbury, Collins and Harmer should be fighting tooth and nail to support us.If cabinet members are riding roughshod over the democratic process then they should be subject to a vote of no confidence in the Council and if our representatives are truly that then they should be supporting the motion regardless of party loyalties.As far as CPZ's are concerned they should only be introduced if a majority of residents in a given area, NOT one road, vote for them, when I say a majority I mean a majority of residents not a majority of those that vote, I think that a number of people probably don't vote because they don't think it will make a difference if they do.Democracy in action!

Simon Foster ● 4506d15 Comments

Phil Andrews wrote:'.... unfortunately politics is for too many a power game rather than an opportunity to make things happen for the community's benefit.'I have to say I agree entirely!Many of the press articles regarding Chris Huhne of late overtly described the way he "plotted his rise to power over many years". On the one hand, I don't see too much wrong with that -politics is a job like (or unlike) many others, and people do it for a career to earn their money and keep themselves in the manner etc etc. The thing that makes me so mad is hearing so many telling us about what a privilege it is to serve, when in most cases they are simply serving themselves, or at least serving us as a means of serving themselves.If they'd shut up about the privilege of service, and just tell us that they felt proud of their last promotion to a bigger and better paid job, then I could at least respect them for telling us what most of us actually know it is.End of rant. Apologies -it's Friday. Now back to plotting my entry into politics... Greatness (and service) awaits!

Tim Barnes ● 4501d

Oh, by the way, Wheelie Bins don't come cheap - they cost money, OUR money - how stupid to spend on useless unwanted bins when the cash could be used where it is needed!

Jennifer Selig ● 4502d

Don't know how Hounslow Council has the gall to spout all that "Localism" stuff and how they want to engage and listen to the people - it's all just so much blank rubbish - they NEVER seem to engage in any sort of consultation with any of the local residents groups - they just arrive and impose some completely unsuitable/undesireable scheme.  Tarmac instead of paving;  removal of trees;  creeping road by road CPZs on residents (and local Councillors in the case of Chiswick) who are totally opposed to them (so is LBH in its policy statements, which rather beggars belief!) and now Wheelie bins within a conservation area in roads with no front gardens and often no back garden in which to park the thing - all to aid recycling when the wheelie bin only takes landfill rubbish!!!!

Jennifer Selig ● 4502d

"and if I was a Councillor I'd also have to think for an awfully long time about whether I posted or not."Adam with respect, you were an officer at Hounslow a long time ago and things (social networking) has moved a long way since then and it has been a huge success. Prime Ministers, Presidents and politicians around the world use social networking. IMO Hounslow should come out of the dark ages and Cllrs should be compelled to use forums such as this to answer to their paymasters.

Steve Taylor ● 4505d

I agree, but unfortunately politics is for too many a power game rather than an opportunity to make things happen for the community's benefit.

Phil Andrews ● 4505d

I don't think anyone expects them to be online day and night .But when an issue really starts to rumble, some kind of response should ensue.After all these are taking decisions on our behalf but consulting with whom?There is no need anymore for all this clandestine secrecy.

Michael Brandt ● 4505d

Politicians and political parties are by nature schemers and their engagement on forums such as this tends to be kept to a bare minimum as they work on the principle that the less they say the more wiggle room they leave themselves and the less they'll have to justify.For the Tories the only regular contributors are Sam Hearn and John Todd.  The latter is instinctively circumspect due to his police training.  Even Sam, on the other hand, lovely guy that he is, allows his guard to drop from time to time, especially when his dander is up.Labour tend to use the services of non-councillors when they feel the need to intervene in these discussions.  Two notable examples were David Hughes (before he was re-elected) and Robin Taylor, whom I believe was eventually banned for posting under false names.As an independent councillor not blessed with a talent for cold calculation and double-speak I did participate on a regular basis, sometimes to my own cost as everything one says has the potential to be misrepresented or selectively quoted by those who are of that particular mindset.From a politician's point of view there is a logic to keeping one's enegagement with the hoi polloi to a minimum.  Not so much disinterest as self-interest.

Phil Andrews ● 4505d

I'm sorry Adam but whilst what you say referring to the forum is probably true, it is nonetheless reflective of society.One of the interesting things about this and other town forums is that they have a wide cross section of contributors who were from differing political colours.What has become noticeable is that they are now in the minority and the main consensus seems to be non -political or non aligned political.Just because one does not trust or have a political colour does not mean one does not care about the town, it's environs or it's inhabitants. In fact, far from it.Most of the people who volunteer to do all manner of things in our society just get on with it and do it. Some because they want to and others because the have to.  Many do it from the simple fact that they feel obliged to do their duty - This applies in particular to carers in families.The forum is popular and has newspapers worried. It carries open and free expression and anyone can join in. Unlike Radio and TV where despite what they claim, it is very selective.I would quite like to do my duty as well and stand up and truly represent people but it is something I will never achieve. I have the same affliction that affected King George VI but did not get an Australian therapist.  But I can still think, write and communicate.This is where things fail. Writing to councils and councillors is now a complete waste of time. No-one ever responds and if the do it's far too late.Of 12 I've written to in the last 9 months just two have replied and 3 acknowledged reciept but did not reply.In Ealing I wrote to 3 councillors and all three replied within a few days. And in a full and frank manner.On this Forum of late, just one councillor took the trouble to clear the air and in doing so, was frank enough to repair his credibility. One may still not agree with the companies activities but al least he was able to put his situation for all to read and not in out of context quotes as the papers may publish. My wife does the phone thing and fares little better there.The lack of response ( avoidance) from the planning issue I've written about several times outside of this forum underlines to me how wrong party politics in in a local authority.As does the amount of local politicians involved in political based careers.But it's a failed system. In my opinion it is as you say expecting too much for an ideal world but this has failed in too many ways and needs fixing properly.

Michael Brandt ● 4505d

Ironically enough I think you illustrate my point perfectly too...You've immediately jumped to the conclusion that I am of the view that "people don't matter".  I happen to be one of those people, I'm not an LBH Officer anymore, I'm not a Councillor.  So with respect that's a rather daft comment to make.The thrust of my point was that the danger with these forums is that very often people only see things from their own personal perspective, both in terms of what they see as being the issues of 'priority' and their expectations.  For the relatively small % of the local population that do post, there's a huge % of people who don't post, and those many of those people would I'm sure rather their elected Councillors 'get on with the job' than posting on here.In an ideal world the public, Officers and Councillors would engage in healthy debate on forums like these - sadly, based on my own experiences, I'd say to think that ideal world could ever be a reality would be extremely naive.In a slightly similar vein take the example of that 17 year old youth police commissioner who's been all over the news this weekend.  You read her Twatter posts and it paints her in a very negative light.  But then you put it into the context of her being like any other 17 year old and it really isn't that big a deal beyond her simply being rather immature to not think about how posting daft things on Twatter would reflect on her and the her employers generally.  The problem is, the same kind of issues would inevitably at some point arise if you had Officers and Councillors posting on forums such as this one on a regular basis.Indeed, it's precisely for reasons like this that I don't (and never will) have a Twatter account, that I update my Facebook account about three times a year and precisely why I generally regard social media sites as nothing more than a big ego-trip.

Adam Beamish ● 4505d

You illustrate my point beautifully.Taking the attitude that people don't matter is exactly what turns them off from the democratic process in the first place.It is with the small local issues that directly affect the everyday lives of people that they can be reengaged.In the case of a CPZ, for instance, compared to the cost of implementing a scheme, it would be a relatively small expense to canvass the residents of a few roads either door to door or by telephone to get a genuine picture of opinion.If people see that the Council is working with them and for them rather than regardless of them then maybe the people will show more interest when the time comes for an election.By the way, I'm not suggesting for one minute that every single local issue should have a referendum, the whole point of our system is that we shouldn't have to. But elected representatives need to work for the people who elected them not for their political philosophy. Party politics have done more damage to local government than anything else I can think of it shouldn't have any place in Local government.

Simon Foster ● 4505d

Whether Councillors choose to post on forums like this is a purely a matter of personal choice, nothing more, nothing less.Back in the day in the early days of my employment at LBH, I used to post on these forums as and when I felt it was appropriate for me to post.  I thought this would be beneficial to the community.  Perhaps it was, but it also rather exposes you to abuse, criticism and hassle, and there's the danger of a resulting imbalance between the amount of time one spends focusing on issues raised on forums like this, and the many other sources of issues.Also, with the best will in the world, we're all only human,  and occasionally we make mistakes.  With hindsight I can easily look back and think "hmm, I wish years ago I'd never posted that" and I'm now very strongly of the personal opinion that Council Officers should definitely never post on these forums, and if I was a Councillor I'd also have to think for an awfully long time about whether I posted or not.  I know numerous LBH Councillors who don't post on forums like this for exactly these reasons.  They do read these forums, but don't post, and I have to say I don't blame them  - everytime a planning related post comes up on here there's nearly always some 'wild' theory about dodgy dealings with no real sense of perspective attached to it and so on, and it gets so tiresome that even I sometimes think "what do I bother posting ?."

Adam Beamish ● 4506d

"when I say a majority I mean a majority of residents not a majority of those that vote, I think that a number of people probably don't vote because they don't think it will make a difference if they do."Different strokes for different folks then? We have governments that are only elected on a majority of those who bother to turn out to vote, so why should a vote on CPZ's be any different?

Vanessa Smith ● 4506d

There are no Lib Dems on Hounslow Council

John Connelly ● 4506d

Just like Brent in the 1980s rotten to the core.Needs a complete clearout.Anyone noticed how its all councillors who are silent on so much.?Never hear a word from the Lib Dems or Tories they have reamined silent on almost every issue.Odd considering the huge amount of discontent with the current ruling administration, you would think that they would have capitialised on all that is cheesing us all off.But Hounslow elected and not, has been rotten for far far too long and needs one heck of big yard broom

Michael Brandt ● 4506d

Abuse of power can be reported.I wonder if anyone has ever done that or whether a group has considered a class action?

Raymond Havelock ● 4506d