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EU Referendum

David Cameron is for ever going on about re-negotiating with the EU to look after our own borders and make our own laws once again without EU directives.However he cannot start without first invoking Article 50 of Lisbon Treaty which is the only mechanism that exists within the EU Law to get Powers back to our country,he has not done this yet! so how on earth can he persist in telling us that he is on the case as it were! does he really think that we the populace are ignorant and have no understanding.At the moment we are completely controlled by the EU as to whom we can Trade with, we as a country need to be able to trade with our Commonwealth, Asia, China, North & South America, we should not be held to ransom by the EU does Nick Clegg,Ed Miliband and David Cameron seriously believe that if we were given an in/out referendum and we chose to leave the Euro Zone that Europe would no longer trade with us, for heaven’s sake we import approx 60% of their trade, that they even conceive this might happen beggars belief.We now know that if Ed Miliband were to win the 2015 election he would not take us out of Europe let alone give us a referendum because he deems that it would be wrong for us,Politicians have to remember that they were voted in to do the best for our country, not take John Prescott's attitude "They voted us in and they will do as they are told" People age 40 did not have the opportunity to vote and it has been nearly 50 years since we voted to enter the COMMON MARKET to trade not to be dictated to by the EU who gave them that right did you because I certainly did not and I want a say in both mine and my countries destiny.

Dawn Hardy ● 4469d33 Comments

On the vote this evening not one MP should abstain, they are there to represent the electorate not their own Party Policies, with something as important as this they should think very carefully, their decision this evening will undoubtedly have long standing repercussions.I have listened to both the BBC and Sky this morning and I find their attitude quite insulting, it would seem that we people on the street really do not understand what is actually going on as far as the amendment to the Queens Speech.They should understand that we the people are no longer serfs who touch their forelocks, that we are very well educated. Have any of us seen the likes of the ordinary people on TV being asked pertinent questions, even on Question Time if you are lucky to be able to  ask a question it is vetted at first, unless a question is offensive or rude then it should be used.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

Technical Terms for EU Commissioners Democratic deficit:a term describing the lack of accountability to voters in the way the EU operates.Supranationalism:a form of organisation through which decisions are made by international institutions, not by individual states.Intergovernmental:a form of international organisation where governments work together to achieve shared goals.De facto: existing in practise, but not necessarily through law.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

How it works.Over two thousand permanent EU civil servants based in Brussels carry out the work of the Commission within thirty Directorates-General, which deal with all areas of economic and social policy as well as external affairs, the management of the EU itself and services such as legal advice and translation. Each Commissioner is supported by their own cabinet of advisors.Facts and Figures• The Treaty of Rome emphasises the independence of Commissioners. While they are in the post they must show no allegiance to their home country.ArgumentsFor• A powerful central bureaucracy means that member states can come together to create policies that they might not have the will to make on their own.• The EU is run by experts from all twenty-seven member states who are able to pool their abilities in the Commission. They are above national politics.• The Commission bureaucracy is relatively small, yet achieves a great deal.Against• The Commission's accountability is unclear because there is no direct election of Commissioners.• A centralised Commission is distant from European citizens' everyday lives.Quotes'National parliaments... should be able to show a red card, so the Commission can be blocked in its tendency to over-regulate.'  Frits Bolkestein, Internal Market Commissioner, 1999-2004 (NB: a system of 'yellow cards' and 'orange cards' was introduced in the Lisbon Treaty (2007) through which national parliaments can question the actions of the Commission.)'Nothing has really changed and one wonders what this Commission has been doing the past five years... not only the Commission, but also other institutions, such as the Parliament, need a drastic shake-up.' Paul van Buitenen MEP, 2004

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

How it works.European Commission [print sheet] Last updated: 21/07/11The Commission is the driving force of the EU and has many different responsibilities. It is the only institution that has the power to proposeEU laws and is also responsible for enforcing them. It operates at asupranational level and manages much of the day-to-day running of the EU. It has the financial powers to draft the EU budget and distribute EU money to member states. It also has a role representing all the members collectively in the negotiation of treaties and the enlargement of the EU. It sits in on all decisions made about common foreign and security policyand justice and home affairs policy and when members don't implement EU law, it can take legal action against them. It has often been a focus for public attention because of its far reaching powers and the fact that it is not directly accountable to the electorate, leading to claims of ademocratic deficit.HistoryThe Commission was set up under the articles of the Treaty of Rome (1957) giving it wide ranging de facto powers which it has expanded as the authority of the EU has spread. Its influence has changed over the years, largely depending upon the character of its President. Walter Hallstein (1958-67) is credited with having got the European project off the ground, while Jacques Delors (1985-94) moved the integration process forward rapidly during his Presidency. In the late 1990s, the Commission was mired in scandal surrounding allegations of abuse of power and corruption. In 1999, this led to the mass resignation of Jacques Santer's Commission following pressure from the European Parliament. The current President of the Commission is the Portuguese Commissioner, José Manuel Barroso. Barroso was re-elected in September 2009 to serve for a second term and has said that his agenda will concentrate on making sure that the EU survives the global economic crisis.How does the European Commission work?The Commission is made up of twenty-seven Commissioners, one from each member state. Each Commissioner is responsible for setting and managing EU policy in a particular area - such as foreign affairs, education or transport. The Commissioners serve a term of five years. They are appointed by national governments and then confirmed by a vote in the European Parliament. The UK's Commissioner is currently Baroness Catherine Ashton and she is in charge of foreign policy as the EU's High Representative for Common Foreign and Security Policy (in this post she is also a Vice-President of the Commission). One of the Commissioners is nominated by the European Council to be the President, in order to give leadership to the work of the Commission as a whole.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

Salaries for the Commissioners.Updated: 28th November 20121. On taking up office: • On assuming office, Commissioners are entitled to an installation allowance of two months' salary. • Costs of travel to Brussels and moving expenses are reimbursed. 2. While in office: Salary • The basic salary of a member of the Commission is currently (since 1 July 2010) € 20.667,20 per month (the Vice-Presidents earn € 22.963,55, the High Representative earns € 23.882,09 and the President earns € 25.351,76).• The salary is subject to Community tax. There are 14 marginal tax rates, ranging from 8% to 45%. Allowances • Commissioners are entitled to a residence allowance of 15% of their salary. • Commissioners are entitled to a monthly entertainment allowance of € 607,71 (Vice-Presidents and the High Representative receive € 911.38, the President receives € 1418.07). 3. On leaving office: • Upon leaving office, Commissioners are entitled to a resettlement allowance of one month's salary. • Travel expenses and moving costs are reimbursed. • A transitional allowance is paid for three years, beginning on the day after leaving office. This allowance is between 40% and 65% of the final basic salary, depending on the length of service. This allowance is subject to Community tax. • The transitional allowance is capped. If the former Commissioner takes up any new gainful activity, the amount of the new job's salary, added together with the allowance, cannot exceed the remuneration as a member of the Commission. Retirement pension • Former Commissioners are entitled to a life pension, payable from the age of 65. The pension is subject to Community tax. • Pension rights depend on the length of a Commissioner's term in office. The amount of the pension is calculated as 4.275 % of the basic salary for every full year in office. The pension may not exceed 70% of the final basic salary. • Commissioners on unpaid leave do not accumulate pension rights for the time they are on leave.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

Another interesting titbit.European Commission The Commissioners (2010-2014)The members of the Barroso Commission (2010-2014)Transparency | Procedures | Additional information | HistoryJosé ManuelBarrosoPresidentCatherineAshtonVice-PresidentHigh Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security PolicyVivianeRedingVice-PresidentJustice, Fundamental Rights and CitizenshipJoaquínAlmuniaVice-PresidentCompetitionSiimKallasVice-PresidentTransportNeelieKroesVice-PresidentDigital AgendaAntonioTajaniVice-PresidentIndustry and EntrepreneurshipMarošŠefčovičVice-PresidentInter-Institutional Relations and AdministrationOlliRehnVice-PresidentEconomic and monetary affairs and the EuroJanezPotočnikEnvironmentAndrisPiebalgsDevelopmentMichelBarnierInternal Market and ServicesAndroullaVassiliouEducation, Culture, Multilingualism and YouthAlgirdasŠemetaTaxation, Customs, Statistics, Audit and Anti-FraudKarelDe GuchtTradeMáireGeoghegan-QuinnResearch, Innovation and ScienceJanuszLewandowskiFinancial Programming and BudgetMariaDamanakiMaritime affairs and fisheriesKristalinaGeorgievaInternational Cooperation, Humanitarian Aid and Crisis ResponseGüntherOettingerEnergyJohannesHahnRegional PolicyConnieHedegaardClimate ActionŠtefanFüleEnlargement and European Neighbourhood PolicyLászlóAndorEmployment, Social Affairs and InclusionCeciliaMalmströmHome AffairsDacianCioloşAgriculture and Rural DevelopmentTonioBorgHealth and Consumer PolicyTransparency

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

My last piece was EU Info published in Sept 2004,consequently it is obviously grown.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

Interesting titbit.How many MEPs are there?There are currently 626 MEPs but after the next European Parliament elections there will be 732 (as a result of the 10 new member states). 194 MEPs are women. The number of MEPs each country has depends on a country's population size.How many MEPs represent the UK?The UK is split up into 12 electoral regions. Each of these regions is represented by between 3 - 10 MEPs. There are 87 UK MEPs in total. 21 of the UK MEPs are women.How much do MEPs get paid?MEPs get paid the same as MPs in their country. Italy's MEPs get paid the most, Spain's MEPs are the lowest paid. UK MEPs get paid £56,358. in addition MEPs receive other benefits such as travel expenses.Where do MEPs work?MEPs obviously work for the European Parliament. Sometimes they will be back in their regions meeting their constituents. Once a month the Parliament meets in Strasbourg to hold discussions and votes on budgets and laws. Other than that they are based in Brussels working in specialist committees.What areas do MEPs specialise in? Each MEP specialises in one of 17 areas:  1. Foreign affairs, human rights, common security and defence policy  2. Budgets  3. Budgetary control  4. Citizens freedoms, rights, justice and home affairs  5. Economic and monetary affairs  6. Legal affairs and the internal market  7. Industry, internal trade, research and energy  8. Employment and social affairs  9. Environment, public health and consumer policy  10. Agriculture and rural development  11. Fisheries  12. Regional policy, transport and tourism  13. Culture, youth, education, media and sport  14. Development and cooperation  15. Constitutional affairs  16. Women's rights and equal opportunities  17. PetitionsWhat other work do MEPs do?MEPs have responsibility for keeping checks on the Council of Ministers, approving budgets and proposals for new laws. These are very important responsibilities.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

Indeed.

Phil Andrews ● 4468d

A case then of keep your friends closer but your enemies closer.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

Oh! you charmer you.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

So in actual fact Fraser we are now in totalitarian society that we did not choose.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

"Never again will I put my trust in a politician"Music to my ears.  There is more joy in Heaven...

Phil Andrews ● 4468d

Thank you Fraser that's the most concise response and much appreciated.It would appear that we are well and truly caught within the EU Web does it not. I think  that a few of those Quangos who earn a great deal of money from us, should set about coming up with a strategic plan to becoming autonomous once again. I still believe a referendum is our right and I am very angry to suddenly realise that we have been fooled for so many years by each successive government whilst they have been fooling us they have sold us out. Never again will I put my trust in a politician.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

My point was though Dawn that they claim to be anti-EU, but its leaders have depended upon it for the last four years or so for their financial survial.  If there's one thing more effective as a strategy than buying friends it is buying enemies.

Phil Andrews ● 4468d

I also remember that the vote was for a Common Market which was supposed to mean free trade between European Countries, not dictatorship from Brussels.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

In a Democratic Society Phil, however distasteful we find the BNP it is not right to take their funding away, that is not what our fathers and families fought for in World War 2.

Dawn Hardy ● 4468d

“Although I DID get a vote on joining the EU…”You didn’t, Vanessa. The EU didn’t exist then. We’ve never had a vote on the EU.What you voted against was an internationalist community of governments, agreeing to work together.What you seem in favour of now, however, is a supranationalist government ruling over individual member states in incremental steps.The problem is, you can’t vote the European Commission out. Most people would be pushed to even name a handful of the Commissioners. Many people also seemingly think the EU is just a bigger version of the political system they're used to. It's not - it was designed to replace national democracies with a completely different system.P.S. Happy anniversary! Hope you had a good dinner. Here’s to the next 40 years! May you both have a long, happy and healthy life together.

Fraser Pearce ● 4468d

The Lisbon Treaty gave the EU legal title. The EU therefore negotiates trade agreements on behalf of its member states – meaning the UK can no longer make trade agreements of its own with the outside world.Article 50 is indeed the way to get the ball rolling. There’s not much point getting the ball rolling, however, if there’s no plan in place to replace EU and Single Market membership. Indeed, leaving the EU without a realistic Plan B might harm the UK’s economy even more than EU membership. Perhaps Article 50 should be preceded by a cost-benefit analysis* of EU membership, plus analysis of alternatives to the current EU?---Regardless, it’s not enough to simply reject the EU. We need to know what it might be replaced with – and there are solid, practical reasons for this… The EU currently has almost 800 bilateral treaties and 250 multilateral agreements in place. The UKIP model of leaving the EU overnight would likely mean the immediate junking all of these treaties and agreements without having anything in their place.In the real world, this would likely leave the UK in breach of WTO trade law and unable to do business in key areas and places (British flights unable to land in the USA? No mobile phone roaming when traveling in Europe, etc?).If the planned EU-USA treaty takes 4 years to come about, how long might it take the UK to negotiate withdrawal from this treaty and then re-negotiate a new one with the EU and USA? Then there are all the EU treaties and agreements with China, Japan, Canada, South Korea, India, Australia, etc. …Almost a thousand of them.This thicket of EU trade law alone may mean it could take decades to leave the EU.* Unfortunately, the British government rejected a cost-benefit analysis of an EU cost-benefit analysis in 2011 ("Since there is no intention to carry out a cost-benefit analysis of EU membership, the cost of such an analysis is not known.”). 

Fraser Pearce ● 4468d

The referendum was in 1975, not 1972, and I voted YES, as did everyone I know.

Susan Kelly ● 4468d

If we're not going to accept the Tobin tax then what's our big idea of setting aside funds for the next big banking disaster? The Tobin tax is meant to be more of an insurance policy - cream off a small percentage of all trade to set aside funds in case of another financial market crisis (when I say 'in case of' ... what I mean is 'when it happens'). If its not the Tobin tax then what is it? Maybe we beleive the banks when they say "we'll set up our code of conduct, be sensible and it will all be ok".

Alan Clark ● 4468d

Eh? We are fined if we trade outside the EU, say to the US? And, say, Spain is fined if it trades with Latin America? And Germany if it trades with China? Really?  Are you absolutely sure you have a firm grasp of this?

Alan Clark ● 4468d

Personally I would have no faith in a referendum in any event.  Like Vanessa I voted NO in 1972, all my family voted NO, everyone I met at that time said they noted NO and yet, evidently, the country voted 2/1 YES but still, 40 years later, I am still waiting to meet someone who will admit to voting YES. Based on the result of 1972 I suspect that if we had a referendum tomorrow we would probably get the result the politicians want NOT the result the public wants.  Having said that I am not convinced the general public understands all the implicationsof staying in/leaving - I know I don't.

Bernadette Paul ● 4469d

They do just what the financial elite in this country does Dawn, they buy those that will be bought.  Check out just how much European cash has found its way to UKIP, and even to the BNP.

Phil Andrews ● 4469d

Already Phil,Brussels have been in discussion on whether to continue funding little parties, based purely on their policies. I saw this early one morning on Euro News not so long ago this was not just UKIP but parties across the EU who actually had the temerity to disagree in their Parliament.A trifle Draconian don't you think also very worrying.Another thing how many years has it been since the Finances of the EU has been audited by such as Price Waterhouse,Ernst & Young, Deloitte's none of these would go anywhere near.Does no one else wonder just exactly how funds are spent or allocated. It would appear that they have complete Carte Blanche to do whatever they want.

Dawn Hardy ● 4469d

"I am extremely disappointed in David Cameron purely because he has assumed that we the public are idiots and that we have absolutely no understanding on what we want"That sums up most establishment politicians though Dawn, local and national.  The whole rationale of party politics rests upon the belief that there is a political class which knows what is best for us, and that our job is just to elect them and thereafter to take a back seat and let them get on with it.That is why it is ridiculous and a distraction to expend time and energy arguing that one lot is better than the other lot.  They are the same lot, just ostensibly divided into two or three "different" camps in order to give us plebs an illusion of choice.  Scratch away the difference in emphasis and you will very quickly see that there are actually no significant policy differences between them.UKIP's success or otherwise will depend entirely upon whether or not it is allowed to join the club.  Either way you are destined to be disappointed once again.

Phil Andrews ● 4469d

Do you know what I am really aggrieved about Phil, the nonsense that David Cameron has been telling us, that he will renegotiate getting our POWERS back from Brussels, powers that not one of the public agreed should be given over,when we initially signed up it was to a Common Market a free trade agreement we were not told that it would entrap us and that we would be dictated to. That 85% of our Laws would not be passed by our Parliament but from Brussels.I am extremely disappointed in David Cameron purely because he has assumed that we the public are idiots and that we have absolutely no understanding on what we want, of course this idiot fiasco tomorrow will fail it is  purely a PR demonstration, however both Mr Miliband & Mr Clegg will loose a considerable amount of votes in the next election.I have voted Tory all my life but I will if  necessary vote UKIP in the next election if it means that we are once again an autonomous nation, Mr Cameron needs to in good faith  invoke Article 50 to enable renegotiation's to begin, why wait until 2017 why? not now.If Labour win the next election we will be spending Euro before we know it, and I simply do not want that, I love my country and I want it back.Why are we giving 130 Billion per year to the EU can anyone explain this to me, we as a country are in dire straits and yet all our government appear to be doing is giving money that we can ill afford away.

Dawn Hardy ● 4469d

This relates to 2010, I have just pulled up from the Net Trade Growth & World Affairs,Trade Policy as core component of the EU's 2020 Strategy, once I have read and digested it I will debate with you.However with ref: to below we had a very small trade between,China Canada Japan Australia Singapore South Africa Turkey also India, a very large trade with the USA? no trade with New Zealand.The Tobin Tax mentioned by Alan should not be even considered as it is a directive from the EU not ours.

Dawn Hardy ● 4469d

"everyone elgible to vote would need all the relevant information at their fingertips, and how many of the electorate do you think would bother to read and absorb it?"Personally I have faith in my fellow citizens to read and absorb information, I do not consider the ability to do so a quality that is unique to the political class.  What I do worry about though is the kind of "information" that they would be receiving.It certainly seems to be a good rule of thumb that the more progressive and sensible a piece of European legislation is the more shrill is the chorus of indignation from our politicians.We hear lots of whining about how "uncompetitive" it supposedly is to pay working people a basic minimum wage (usually from the very same people who then whinge about them having to depend on benefits), or to allow employees the security of protection from arbitrary dismissal, but nary a peep about the fact that Euro MPs are allowed to waste literally millions of pounds taking coachloads of their friends and families to the continent for jollies under the pretence of them being "educational visits".  Why?  Because they are all at it, that's why.  The same reason as our own expenses scandals were kept under wraps for so long, or that our local councillors are able to relocate themselves to different parts of the country or even other countries without challenge from their opponents.For me it's not about the money, it's about the fact that a loaded referendum (the charade over PR being an excellent example) is worse than no referendum at all, and we quite simply cannot trust our present crop of politicians to preside over an honest and honourable debate because it runs contrary to their every instinct.Not for nothing is British democracy said to be the best that money can buy.

Phil Andrews ● 4469d

Then how is it that a fines are imposed by the EU on those who do trade, really we are not permitted to trade outside of the EU.

Dawn Hardy ● 4469d

Although I DID get a vote on joining the EU - yes, I am that ancient! I voted 'No' at the time, I would now vote to stay in. The world has changed beyond all recognition in that time, and the anti brigade do tend to exaggerate and elaborate about what supposed harm European legislation does in this country, aided and abetted by some sections of the press. We also have some far better laws thanks to the EU, we are an island nation and geographically part of Europe we'd be bonkers to try and pull out, how much do you suppose it would cost? You simply cannot keep chopping and changing with something this big, neither can you treat Europe as a pick and mix, it simply doesn't work that way. How can politicans in the Tory party be against Scottish independence and for pulling out of Europe? For us to have a referendum - another spectacular waste of the money we supposedly haven't got - everyone elgible to vote would need all the relevant information at their fingertips, and how many of the electorate do you think would bother to read and absorb it? I wonder how many people who put their cross next to UKIP really read their manifesto? One look at some of their proposals and wannabee MPs and MEPs and you'd reach for a large G&T or Hemlock. We just can't keep repeating history, I've always thought we're better in the tent p*ssing out, than outside p*ssing in.

Vanessa Smith ● 4469d

For Dawn, the table below shows the top 25 countries that we export to. Formatting has been lost but you can see the ranking and the values. See http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/feb/24/uk-trade-exports-imports for the original.Top UK export countriesRankCountryYear to date 2011 (£m)Year to date 2010 (£m)% Change SOURCE: HM REVENUE & CUSTOMS 1  UNITED STATES  31,712  30,894  2.7  2  GERMANY  27,539  23,502  17.2  3  FRANCE  18,905  16,542  14.3  4  NETHERLANDS  18,823  17,189  9.5  5  IRISH REPUBLIC  14,063  13,307  5.7  6  BELGIUM  12,949  10,835  19.5  7  ITALY  8,287  7,193  15.2  8  SPAIN  7,946  8,065  -1.5  9  CHINA  7,055  5,839  20.8  10  SWEDEN  5,103  4,504  13.3  11  INDIA  4,597  3,172  44.9  12  SWITZERLAND  4,400  4,063  8.3  13  CANADA  4,126  3,445  19.8  14  HONG KONG  4,120  3,464  18.9  15  RUSSIA  3,853  2,692  43.1  16  UAE  3,844  3,101  23.9  17  JAPAN  3,667  3,443  6.5  18  POLAND  3,655  2,999  21.9  19  AUSTRALIA  3,380  2,609  29.5  20  TURKEY  3,115  2,452  27.1  21  SINGAPORE  2,929  2,704  8.3  22  SOUTH AFRICA  2,836  2,201  28.9  23  NORWAY  2,732  2,390  14.3  24  SAUDI ARABIA  2,554  2,440  4.7  25  DENMARK  2,477  2,242  10.5 

Iain Muir ● 4469d

The EU stops us trading with Asia or America? Really? What makes you think that? Strange because other European countries seem able to trade with these regions...I suspect that much of the recent noise over Europe is actually driven by the proposed Tobin tax. Not anything to do with "control from Europe"  - complete or otherwise. More about extracting our (clearly responsible) financial institutes from this threat.

Alan Clark ● 4469d