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Correction: the government of this country elected a few generations ago to bring the class divide to an end and create a welfare state.Our whole system in this country is geared to it.Part of that responsiblity is  or was state ownership, to protect both industry and employment.Few British private companies prior to 1948 cared much for the welfare of employees.Those that did are few, Cadbury's Sunlight, the railway companies and utility and several others are well documented. Providing homes and a good security.But looming large was the American system and that is what we would have had if it were not for the welfare state.The trouble is it was too restraining and the unions had an easy lever with state owned industry and they played a large part in it's demise - long before Thatcher arrived on the scene. Healthy and profitable state industry not only generates enough income to plough back into improving it's industry but also to fund the state system like  pensions and benefits.The unions did a lot of damage in the 60s and 70s by being complacent in some issues like equal rights for women and militant over trivial issues. They opened the door to other ideas.Times have changed but we now have a huge underclass.Take the Royal Mail. It's profitable even though it has been badly run by a raft of management like Adam Crozier and co.  it could and should have been so much better but both Labour and Tory governments have always kept it shackled.But it has a large workforce many of whom will not fare well in the outside world.It's very possible that 60% of the workforce will be disguarded upon privatisation. Most will never get another job.So they will end up on benefits, and suffering all the other problems being on the scrapheap brings and we the taxpayer will be funding it while the new owners of Royal Mail share out the pickings.What's better, a large workforce actually working for a living and a business that provides at least a small profit for the UK or an ever increasing underclass with a life of hopelessness?I may not be a socialist but there is a line that has to be drawn if we want a society with an NHS and safety net for all.

Michael Brandt ● 4584d

Interesting piece in today's Observer re the Royal Mail sale. "It is a natioanl disgrce that another great British organisation as the Royal Mail, is to be cast into this maelstrom. The directors of the Royal Mailwill be under the same relentless hammer as those in every other British plc. They will put up prices as much as the regulator will allow, cut into universal provision and contract out as much of the delivery to the lowest paid, least protected workers: none of this will be enough to satisfy the owners.  Eventually, the directors, vastly enriched with share options, incentive plans and 200% bonuses, will run up the white flag. Within a decade, the Royal Mail will be sold overseas, probably to another state-owned postal service, if not to a private equity fund based in a tax haven. Who knows? It could even be the Chinese communist party that ends up owning this great British insitution"."You don't need to be a great seer to predict this future. It is exactly what has happened with our privatised water and energy companies. Economists will say the mail service is more efficient, rather as they discussed the way financial deregulation promoted banking efficiency up to the the financial crash of 2008 without ever anticipating the costs of the crash that overwhlemed those gains. By one yardstick, this "efficiency" is guaranteed: the Royal Mail's 150,000 workforce will shrink".Talk about depressing - lessons certainly have not been learned, all in the name of ideology, shameful.

Vanessa Smith ● 4587d

If these industries, were so lame as they seemed to be during state ownership, then not one investment corporation would touch them with a bargepole.But quite the opposite, they queue up and to to lengths to acquire shares.Clearly and  still to this day, state run organisations are badly run and poorly managed. Too many cushy numbers still exist.  I am constantly amazed when I hear friends who work in the public sector complaining about how hard they have to work at times. But they still get their lunch hour, tea breaks and fixed days off. and never work more than a 40 hour week. They still get overtime for a minute worked over 37 hours.Mind you, I think that's the way it should be for everyone else too but it isn't.But the problem with our UK utilities and core services being privatised is that very few have improved noticeably and for the better.Like most businesses, all that seems to happen is asset stripping and selling off to developers.The day to day operations of Thames Water are expensive and with less facilities and infrastucture reserves (which they had 100 year planned for post war) have been sold off.When this company has finally been milked dry, it will not be of any interest to a corporate owner and shareholders. The only way left is to make it a profit machine and that means just one option. Very high prices in a monopoly, which they know they will always have.  Which is what makes it still attractive.All the assets disguarded could have raised a huge amount for renewing the infra structure, it does but a very small proportion. The bulk of profit goes to the share holders and investors who get a return that's way higher than it ought to be for a utility.Worst of all, this all goes out of the UK and the tax on the dividends does not come back to the UK treasury.Utilities, water, electricity Gas, and some other energy resources should be state controlled but more like the German system where a business can move and adapt and use it's own generated profits to reinvest if necessary.Only a mass boycott of Water Rate payments would dent  TW and others to hurt them enough to force change.Knock 50p off their share price and they will soon be making changes.

Raymond Havelock ● 4587d

"the local politicians who, following relentless badgering by Hounslow Council officers, granted Thames Water permission to expand its operation by nearly 50% were not only blighting the lives of thousands of local residents but were also assisting the efforts of the company to pull off a tax dodge?"This missive from MRAG "Whilst residents were pleased to learn that the two most senior Council Officers, who were so determined to act against residents'  wishes and fought so hard on behalf of Thames Water to recommend the ill-fated expansion of the site, are no longer employed by the Council, we believe Cllr Ruth Cadbury owes it to the community to work together with our MP, Ms Macleod,  and take ownership of the problem on a local level. It was, after all, Cllr Cadbury who moved to approve the Planning Application which was seconded by Cllr John Cooper. It is a fact that Thames Water was found guilty on 18 counts of mismanagement and gross negligence and Cllr Cadbury was well aware, from previous dealings with Thames Water, long before the Application was submitted, that the Company  could not be trusted to fullfill its promise that he site would be odour neutral after the expansion. Cllr Cadbury needs to take responsibility for her actions which now, after four long years of enduring ongoing chaos throughout expansion, still causes constant misery and stress to residents. We look forward to hearing from our MP, the Council Labour Group and the Council's Head of Environment  on exactly how they intend to deal with Thames Water. Mogden Residents Action Group"

Steve Taylor ● 4588d

From MSN News"The operations director of the UK's biggest water company, which was revealed last week to have paid no corporation tax this financial year, has been made an OBE.Robert Collington, who is one of eight directors on Thames Water's executive team, has been given the award for "services to consumers" in London and the Thames Valley area, "particularly during drought".The water firm's website says that Mr Collington, known as Bob, was appointed to the position of operations director last September and is responsible for 2,300 employees involved in their operations and maintenance.Last summer, Thames Water kept a hosepipe ban in place for two months despite record levels of rain falling in that period after the restrictions were enforced.They were one of seven water companies across southern and eastern England to bring in the bans after two unusually dry winters left some groundwater supplies and rivers as low as in the drought year of 1976.As well as paying no corporation tax, Thames Water received £5 million credit from the Treasury in a year in which revenues rose to £1.8 billion. It made £549 million in underlying pre-tax profits, hiking bills by an inflation-busting 6.7%, while customer satisfaction dipped and hundreds saw their homes flooded by sewage.The figures came in the wake of criticism by Jonson Cox, chairman of regulator Ofwat, that the high profits and tax-reducing corporate structures of some water companies were "morally questionable".Thames says its taxable profits are reduced by allowances on its £1 billion-a-year investment programme. Remaining gains are offset by tax losses claimed from other members of the group. Thames Water is owned by Kemble Water Holdings, whose main investors are ultimately controlled by the Australian-based Macquarie Group."

Steve Taylor ● 4590d