Forum Topic

Hounslow Homes Fraud Investigation

The head of Hounslow Homes is leaving in the wake of a repairs fraud investigation. Two senior members of the in house repairs team have been suspended. The fraud may run to £1m and involves the procurement of goods and the setting up of a dummy company.

Lee Russell ● 4562d199 Comments

I've just posted up a comment on the Tucker report and some questions related to it under a separate thread.

Ian Speed ● 3968d

Honestly Sarah? In the light of recent events in our bit of Isleworth it would surprise me if this lot could find their own backsides with a Sat Nav!

Vanessa Smith ● 4002d

:(

Sarah Felstead ● 4002d

Guy,I can't I was censored correctly on second thought's!

Dawn Hardy ● 4172d

A very good firm!

Dawn Hardy ● 4172d

As the local authority is the sole shareholder it would be unconvincing for it to try to absolve itself of the responsibility for any wrongdoing.Nevertheless in such an event the Council can only respond to events, and most reasonable people would judge it on the quality of that response.

Phil Andrews ● 4176d

None of us know what happened, it really is pointless to speculate. The council's accounts are open to public scrutiny every year. Hopeless Homes is also an 'arm's length' outfit not under the direct control of the council.

Vanessa Smith ● 4176d

I have downloaded their annual report for 2013 from Companies House. The auditors give a clean bill of health. Make what you will of that.

Guy Lambert ● 4176d

DawnHounslow Homes are indeed subject to external audit and retain KPMG for this service. Whether they actually find something is another matter.

Guy Lambert ● 4176d

If I were to steal £100 from you and got caught,would you not expect me to repay what I have stolen from you or would you gracefully accept £10 whilst I do 20 hours Community Service for the other £90?

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

Pensions should be negated if these allegations are proven true.Plus they should be made to repay the amount in question to LBH who represent we the people.

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

Quite frankly it should never have been taken out of LBH hands irrespective of the Government Grant edict,a subsidiary company is just that.Responsibility of expenditure should have remained under the watchful eye of LBH.Plus going back in-house will creat an awful lot of jobs within our community which can only be a good thing.

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

The question is Phil why? has it taken so long,knowing auditing it really shouldn't have taken more than a month with a good efficient team.

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

That's why it is necessary to have a yearly outside audit!

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

In house Audits are okay up to a certain extent,however a large business with million's to hand should after being audited in house.Automatically be Audited from outside with companies such as PwC,Ernst & Young etc.It just ensures that nothing has been missed,my company & all other companies do this on a yearly basis,this report gets sent to our CEO.If this had happened at LBH then surely this alleged fraud would have been spotted long ago?

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

4 have been arrested and I do appreciate not naming them because of the upcoming Court Appearances.However more could have been disclosed as to the amount of the alleged fraud,because like it or not.We the Council Tax Payer's will eventually foot the bill.

Dawn Hardy ● 4176d

If the people arrested are eventually convicted of fraud the proceeds of crime procedures allow the court to increase the sentence if the court rules that they should pay back any financial gains made and they fail to do so. The value of their pensions, as well as any property owned, would be taken into account by a judge in his/her ruling.In any case, this possibility is still far down the road.

John Connelly ● 4176d

At the moment this is all conjecture, will be interesting to see the outcome.

Vanessa Smith ● 4176d

I think you keep your pension even if you're fired - technically I think this is reasonable in cases of incompetence as that doesn't affect the fact that you've built up a pension pot like anyone else. However, if you are responsible for fraud losses the council should sue to recover them - these people might well have appreciating houses as an asset.

Ian Speed ● 4177d

"Will pensions roll with their heads?"Are their pensions that good I wonder?

Gerry Tan ● 4177d

Fraud is deceptive, deceitful and manipulative so by nature difficult to detect.  I wonder if anyone outside the main characters, who remain anonymous, knew it was going on who should have intervened.  A modern piece of trickery is to resign in order to keep a pension.  Will pensions roll with their heads?

Sarah Felstead ● 4177d

The Council are responsible and accountable but no local authority is immune from this kind of thing happening.  The measure of competence is in how they deal with these incidents when they arise.  My fear is that far from being treated as something to be regretted, this will be seized upon as an opportunity to help make the case for bringing the service back in-house - something I have no objection to at all in principle but would naturally question whether the agenda was more about political control than efficiency.

Phil Andrews ● 4178d

VanessaThe names of the people who were suspended from Hounslow Homes are fairly well known.  Of course it may be that these are not the same people as those who have now been arrested, but I guess there is an assumption that they are.As I said before, the decision not to reveal the names would appear to be that of the person issuing the HH/LBH press release.  When the police make a statement about this matter it is likely that the names will be published.

Phil Andrews ● 4178d

If I remember correctly, the audit profession says of itself that it is " a watchdog, not a bloodhound"That's its way of saying that if auditors miss embezzlement or whatever, it's not their fault!

Guy Lambert ● 4178d

I daresay an annual audit did take place, but there are other internal controls which must have gone awry.

Ian Speed ● 4178d

It's not public knowledge that's why the names are not known yet, unless you know who the auditors were not sure how you can make such a sweeping assumption. No doubt all this and more will be answered in the fullness of time.

Vanessa Smith ● 4178d

What we should ask? is why so much secrecy! How long has this been going on,yet we are as much in the dark as when these allegations first came about.

Dawn Hardy ● 4178d

It makes you wonder?

Dawn Hardy ● 4178d

It's common knowledge,so why not publicise their names.

Dawn Hardy ● 4178d

What is also strange & shouldn't happen is if you have a position of trust & responsibility within HH. You shouldn't have a business conflict of interest,therefore the Council must be accountable. A yearly Audit by the likes of Deloitte etc should have taken place.

Dawn Hardy ● 4178d

A very pertinent point,however what restitution will the Council receive from these alleged Fraudsters concerning the £1 million.At the end of the day it will be Council Tenants who will bear the brunt,shortage of funds mean work that is necessary will be put on the back burner!!

Dawn Hardy ● 4178d

Expenditure should be more vigorously controlled & audited as it should have been whilst HH were in control.

Dawn Hardy ● 4178d

I agree entirely. An ability to communicate appropriately with the public is not one of this local authority's talents, nor I suspect of many others also.

Phil Andrews ● 4182d

The resident was treated as guilty and the letter was written in a threatening way.If you or I were to receive a letter like this wee would be straight on the phone giving the department an earful. But some older residents would be very frighten, upset  and worried and not know what to do.

Paul Allen ● 4182d

A threat of eviction is very easy to make, but to actually carry it out would require a trip to the County Court at which the resident would have the opportunity to present evidence of payment.  I suspect the matter would be resolved to the resident's satisfaction before it got this far.

Phil Andrews ● 4182d

"So I cannot see the Council Housing being any better run by taking it back in house"Having seen both ways - trust me in-house is way, way better. Regarding the council tax, obviously if the tenant had proof of payment of course they can't be evicted. We had a similar thing years ago, when the council eventually found our payment in someone else's account with one digit difference in the reference number.

Vanessa Smith ● 4182d

Would I be correct in saying that the article on the front page of this forum has been lifted from a statement by Hounslow Homes and/or the London Borough of Hounslow?If so this many not be a question of subjudice, but rather simply one of the authors of the statement choosing not to include the names of those who have been arrested, for whatever reason they may have.If and when the police release a statement this may indeed include the names of the people in question, as is usually the case.  Neither the Council nor Hounslow Homes is under any obligation to do this.

Phil Andrews ● 4182d

But surly taking HH back into house, will mean it will be run by the same people?.On the issue on  council tax, this is a private contractor I believe?  I cannot go into any detail on a public forum, but a council tenant was threatened with eviction for no payment of council Tax, the tenant had proof of payment, the department cannot find the money. Anyway Tenant still in residence.So I cannot see the Council Housing being any better run by taking it back in house

Paul Allen ● 4182d

I understand your view, however, HH trying to recoup any monies via their tenants is very unlikely to happen. The best thing is for people to vote for their demise and services for housing to back 'in-house'. A house just opposite us has now been without tenants for over a year, true their were some legal issues as I understand it, and the HH contractors - Sleepy, Dozy and Useless - have done what looks like a full refurb. They took so long you could have built a small estate in the same time. So no rent and no council tax from that one property, and we have seem that several times. So when it comes to revenue I hate to think how much they lose. That's without the scandal of the housing situation, how can they in all conscience let a property be vacant for all this time?

Vanessa Smith ● 4182d

“There's obviously more interest in Cliff than a bunch of shifty suburban bureaucrats“These so called bureaucrats have far more impact on HH tenants and lease holders than Cliff Richard.Their actions could have repercussions further down the line of possible reduction of services provided by HH or an increase in rent to pay for any short fall in funding.It's all double standards by our British Justice system

Paul Allen ● 4182d

There's obviously more interest in Cliff than a bunch of shifty suburban bureaucrats, but the real parallel is with the 2004 fraud investigation when 3 and then a 4th were publicly named.

Ian Speed ● 4182d

I think most of us interested are aware of the names involved anyway but still strange they are being withheld

Paul Fisher ● 4183d

Yes, normally as in this case information is sub-judice, and in the great scheme of things I'd say this was very small beer if compared to what poor Cliff has been subjected to.

Vanessa Smith ● 4183d

Yes Sarah, its strange that there are different rules about naming people.

Gerry Tan ● 4183d

Why do we know about Cliff Richards home being raided yet names in this case are being protected?

Sarah Felstead ● 4183d

Wow, there's something rotten in the state of Denmark(Hounslow).

Gerry Tan ● 4184d

This must have been a complex investigation as the Police have had it for quite a time now.  Will we be allowed to know the details of the pending court case in case any one wants to pop along?

Sarah Felstead ● 4184d

Does not sound like carpet sweeping to me....."Earlier this year the findings of an internal inquiry by Hounslow Council had been passed onto police. Around the same time two Hounslow Homes employees were dismissed and another resigned for reasons related to the council's investigation.A council spokesperson said, “We are cooperating fully with the police investigation. Earlier this year we passed to them the findings of an independent investigation, commissioned by the council, into reported fraud at Hounslow Homes.”

Iain Muir ● 4184d

The comments from tyhe Lead Member sound very hollow considering both the Council and Hounslow Homes have been trying to sweep this whole matter under the carpet for over a year now

Paul Fisher ● 4184d

From Front Page Chiswickw4.com Four people have been arrested in connection with allegations of fraud at Hounslow Homes the organisation which manages council homes for the borough.Three men, aged 44, 49 and 52, and a women aged 41 have been bailed to return for questioning in October. They are all former employees of Hounslow Homes.Earlier this year the findings of an internal inquiry by Hounslow Council had been passed onto police. Around the same time two Hounslow Homes employees were dismissed and another resigned for reasons related to the council's investigation.A council spokesperson said, “We are cooperating fully with the police investigation. Earlier this year we passed to them the findings of an independent investigation, commissioned by the council, into reported fraud at Hounslow Homes.”Leader of Hounslow Council, Cllr Steve Curran said, “Clearly, with this now being a police matter, we cannot give any detailed comment. But what I can say is that the council, and the new board and management team of Hounslow Homes, will not tolerate any kind of fraud. If it is reported to us we take those reports extremely seriously and they are immediately investigated and acted on. That’s what happened in this instance, and I welcome the support we have received from the board of Hounslow Homes.”Hounslow Homes is tasked with managing the council’s 16,500 homes, providing a range of services from home improvement works, to rents, caretaking and grounds maintenance works.August 20, 2014

Paul Allen ● 4185d

Sarah Felstead ● 4216d

Surely that's precisely the reason why an Officer shouldn't be posting on a matter like this - otherwise it could be alleged that the Officer is politically biased.But to me the fundamental point is that any kind of official update or comment on a serious issue like this must be done in the proper manner, i.e. through a formal Council press release or such like at an appropriate juncture.

Adam Beamish ● 4310d

An Official update on the investigation of these allegations  would obviously not encroach on the purported Police Investigation. It would also be conducive to whom we would vote for in future upcoming local elections.

Dawn Hardy ● 4311d

John/all,It's a difficult one.  In an ideal world I'd love to see Officers, Members and the public participating on forums like this and having 'sensible' exchanges of views.  But in my view that world doesn't exist.As John says CCF did cross the barrier effectively, but, as with any human, over the years a couple of times he dropped his guard and posted something that he probably shouldn't have done, not doubt out of understandable exasperation.  But that's where the difficulty starts, it only takes one individual to seize on that and make something of it, which can have consequences for both the organisation and the employee.  Nothing to do with this forum, but in my time I've certainly encountered a minority of Joe Public who will lie, manipulate and distort things to try to cause problems (with potentially serious consequences) of that nature, like the individual who tried to fabricate a scenario which could, if I'd fallen for it, have been career ending.  And it's because of that kind of scenario that I take the stance that I do, even if as I say in an ideal world I wish it could be different.Adam

Adam Beamish ● 4311d

Adam, Phil and CoA prospective LBH Councillor candidate (I believe) cited a Cabinet Member making a derogatory comment about HH. I would have asked the source to confirm  or rebut  before posting. I cannot comment further as I was not present when the alleged comment was madeThe Nolan Principles cite a need to be open and transparent etc. The allegation made was too serious in my view to be left unanswered hence my endorsement of Andy's brief but factual post. I emphasise factual.There was a similar one at the outset of this post from HH confirming an investigation. This was appropriate too.An Officers role as Adam explains is a difficult one, but continued silence especially from the Head of Communications  is not  credible. Chris Calvi -Freeman crossed the silence  barrier and became  a valued contributor on traffic matters.  I learnt from his oversight.Must dash- deliveries to be made......RegardsJohn

John Todd ● 4311d

I profoundly disagree with that, Adam. It feels like an attitude from the 1950s justified by 2010s legal hegemony.If council officers (or their management) are worried by legal  matters I suppose they have to put a disclaimer on posts, which should not be beyond the wit of man.The silence of council spokespeople in the public arena is highly detrimental to democracy and the progress of public services IMO.

Guy Lambert ● 4311d

Personally I have no problem with the rebuttal but with the assumption Andy made, without himself having been present at the meeting, that the comment was misinterpreted by members of the public rather than it having been an erroneous observation by a senior councillor which was correctly reported.A presumption of public ignorance/stupidity underpins everything this administration does, and it appears to be one made by officers and councillors alike.

Phil Andrews ● 4311d

John,Because it isn't an official communication medium.  If the Council sent out a letter it's on proper headed paper etc., it comes from an employee based at a Council office during normal working hours, and if a Council employee sends an email it's usually got all the relevant legal footnotes on it to protect both the employee and the organisation.If I'm a Council Officer and I post on this forum there's no  legal footnotes, there's no letter head or such like.  How can anyone reading it know for certain whether I'm posting as a Council Officer, expressing the stance/opinion of the organisation, or as a individual human being ?.  If I post during normal working hours I might actually be on leave, not in the office, so the timing isn't a definitive indicator of what capacity I'm posting in.The bottom line is that if an employee posts on here they are putting both themselves and the organisation as a whole in a vulnerable position, as to be honest, there's always one idiot out there who will exploit the situation.When I was younger and more naive, around 10 or so years ago, I thought these forums were a great opportunity to engage with the public in a well-intended manner.  My bosses at the time took a different view, and the time I felt they were wrong.  Now I'm completely of the same view as them and there's no way I'd be willing to risk either the organisation or the individual by allowing anyone to post.Indeed, even when I post on here, I regularly feel the need to distinguish between me posting as Adam Beamish a resident of the Borough, and Adam Beamish a professional planning consultant.Quite simply, in my view if anyone wants a formal response on any subject from the Council as an organisation or from one of its employees, that has to be done by way of a direct letter or email.

Adam Beamish ● 4311d

AdamWhy?  Andy rightly (in my view) needed to rebut the suggestion that Hounslow Homes was short of funding to enable it to  repair its properties. It is not and never has been.Tenants were concerned. One phoned me asking if their repairs would be delayed for this reason.The rumour was damaging and needed rebutting.RegardsJohn

John Todd ● 4311d

Personally speaking I think it was ill-judged (no idea of any political angle etc.) of the Head of Communications to post on here at all.  I've said it before and I'll say it again, this forum isn't the appropriate medium for Officers to post, and if I was in charge at any public authority I'd ban any of my employees from posting.

Adam Beamish ● 4311d

Unfortunately in today's Political climate a Police investigation or mention of one stops any kind of answer forthcoming.This investigation was slow to start and has apparently stopped.Answers are needed and I think it is on LBH head to answer them,no more excuses update the Residents as is their due.

Dawn Hardy ● 4311d

Ok.  I asked a question that I would like an answer to - am I entitled to ask and get an answer to how the investigation is proceeding? Ongoing ... Closed by the police ... Wasn't a loss to tax payer funds ... Wasn't fraud ...court appearance due on xyz date?

Sarah Felstead ● 4317d

I could not agree more SarahAs an Officer Mt Allsopp should be completely impartial but has obviously been contacted by the councillor to post on here and put the blame on residents rather then her

Paul Fisher ● 4317d

Why should Council Tenants lose out because of this alleged fraud the onus is upon LBH they should have been better at house keeping!!!

Dawn Hardy ● 4317d

Are you suggesting that the Councillor instructs the Head of communications to give their side of the story to back them in that story to make the polititian appear in a better light or more truthful?As they are the Councillors patsy, they are duty bound not to engage in an open conversation or answer direct questions from anyone else?Is that why I can expect not to get a reply?  This is all very strange to ordinary folk.  I think I asked a reasonable question which could be answered with a short, direct, hopefully polite :-), answer.

Sarah Felstead ● 4317d

Don't hold your breath for a reply Sarah.

Andrew Sibley ● 4318d

Looks like you have been sent in to carry a message.  Can you answer the questions asked since your message was received?  Can you carry the information back?  Like, whats that, a conversation?  That is lacking with politics it seems ....  please.  ;-)  Sarah x

Sarah Felstead ● 4318d

Mr AllsoppIf anyone confused the residents it was Cllr Sampson who I am informed by two residents who attended that she clearly stated that delays and cancellations are happening because of this long drawn out investigation involving Hounslow HomesI am unsure why you feel the need to defend the councillor when it was clearly her who has cocked up and passed on the wrong information to the residents who attended the meeting

Paul Fisher ● 4319d

No Andy, the two individuals who separately reported the same comment were not confused about what was being said.  Although the meeting in question was about an outstanding Section 106 payment due to residents of Isleworth's Worton estate, the subject had drifted on to repairs and Councillor Sampson told the meeting that repairs were being delayed due to the ongoing fraud investigation at Hounslow Homes.It is possible that Councillor Sampson was confused.  It is also possible, of course, that for whatever reason Councillor Sampson wanted those present to think badly of Hounslow Homes.  Next Management Review anybody?Please do not make the mistake of always assuming error to be on the side of residents.  We are brighter than a lot of you people give us credit for.

Phil Andrews ● 4319d

How is the fraud investigation proceeding, Andy?

Sarah Felstead ● 4319d

Andy Allsopp, Head of Communications at Hounslow Council here.It seems someone who attended a meeting organised by Cllr Sue Sampson last week, on a completely unrelated topic to the fraud investigation, may have confused some issues.Can I just  reassure tenants and leaseholders that there are no delays or cancellations to repairs as a result of the current investigation.I hope this clears up any confusion.

Andy Allsopp ● 4319d

Sorry situation indeed.  So, who is being held to account, even if they have left the organisation? Did all the dilly dallying allow information to be twisted to cover what had been going on? When are the critters appearing in court?

Sarah Felstead ● 4320d

I have been told that Cllr Sampson confirmed at a residents meeting last week that many Hounslow Homes repairs are being delayed or cancelled because of the money lost in this alledged fraud case

Paul Fisher ● 4320d

What do you think would have been 'high on the list of requirements'?

Anne England ● 4322d

Yes, but you often pay for something you would rather not because the money that would have been allocated for something has to be allocated elsewhere to deal with a shortfall.

Philippa Bond ● 4323d

No Anne, the Housing Revenue Account which sustains Hounslow Homes and the local authority's client-side Housing operation is a ring-fenced account and your Council Tax does not contribute to it.

Phil Andrews ● 4324d

Does any of the Council Tax paid by the rest of us go to support social housing/Hopeless Homes?

Anne England ● 4324d

How is this progressing?

Sarah Felstead ● 4324d

If we're talking arrests it's unlikely to be HH causing delays.

Guy Lambert ● 4385d

How is it that its taken Hounslow Homes all this time (6 months) to get to this stage.After all, as a tenant of Hounslow Homes, indirectly its our money we are talking about here.

tony richmond ● 4386d

Quite bizarre that someone who goes on about the iniquities of political parties continually equates the responses of one independent individual who happens to be a party member, with 'the Labour party'

Guy Lambert ● 4386d

I hear that the first arrest has been made in the Hounslow Homes fraud investigation...

Martyn Taylor ● 4386d

"Cllr Morgan Watts stood as a Conservative candidate...."...eventually.  When he first defected he sat as a Conservative councillor for many months without seeking a mandate to do so from his constituents despite having been elected as a Liberal Democrat.  Everyone knows that, so please don't insult our intelligence John.Councillor Hibbs did indeed move to the London Borough of Hillingdon, although she still lived closer to the Civic Centre than many Hounslow-based councillors.  For three years subsequent to her move her attendance record at council meetings was the highest of any Hounslow councillor.  Shame on John Todd and his colleagues for allowing themselves to be consistently out-performed by a councillor who didn't even live in the borough.Hillingdon is of course closer to Hounslow than Mansfield, which as Paul says has for a number of years been the home of Barbara Harris, Conservative councillor for Feltham West.  But Mansfield is at least in England.  One of her fellow Feltham Conservative councillors under the last administration, and a colleague of course of Councillor John Todd, somehow managed to conduct his constituency business from an address in Spain.If anybody should wonder why Labour didn't make more of this than they might have done it could have been because one of their own councillors was at the time resident in Pakistan!By comparison with the service residents of this borough would appear to be receiving from the establishment parties and their much-travelled placemen my future Chiswick constituents are going to seem positively spoiled.

Phil Andrews ● 4387d

Well, it would appear you've made the Labour Party smile John.Not for the first time, of course.

Phil Andrews ● 4387d

Great response John.Thank you and ROFL.

Guy Lambert ● 4388d

And so it all begins !!Care to enlighten us John why Cllr Harris who was elected to represent Feltham but moved to Nottingham a couple of years ago still claims her allowance despite promising to stand down and allow a by-election?

Paul Fisher ● 4388d

''None are to start their  University studies shortly.''Probably still trying to pass Key Stage 2...

Ian Speed ● 4388d

Cllr Morgan Watts stood as a Conservative candidate.Cllr Hibbs (ICG) didnt live in Hounslow. Was she the first Mayor not to be a Hounslow resident? Former Cllr Paul Fisher and Hardy rushed to leave the ICG when they were defeated - mightly relieved it was  suggested by a reliable sourceThree UKIP Cllrs were awol from Council last night. Their Leader rebutted the suggestion that Mr Farage had culled them  in his drive to eliminate  eccentric candidates.Their intentions are unknown. All LBH seats will be fought by the Conservatives. Candidates are in place. None are to start their  University studies shortly.

John Todd ● 4388d

John - will the Cons be putting up candidates to stand against their ex-mates... and what do you think the chances are?

Guy Lambert ● 4389d

Presumably you felt the same way when Councillor Andrew Morgan-Watts defected from the Lib Dems to the Tories, via a short spell as an independent?

Phil Andrews ● 4390d

I note Cllr. Hutchinson didn't attend a recent HH meeting -an ideal opportunity to raise this issue.She may wish to explain why she jumped ship so to speak and yet remained a Cllr. Her constituents may feel she does not have their mandate and or they feel cheated. John

John Todd ● 4390d

The disciplinary code is published here if anybody is interested:www.hounslowhomes.org.uk/staff_disciplinary_code.pdf

Guy Lambert ● 4391d

http://www.hounslowhomes.org.uk/a3_hr_update.pdfHounslow homes FINANCE AND AUDIT COMMITTEE 10.9.13 shows the following - “HR update.Allegations of corruption.The Chair has been made aware of the fact that a disciplinary investigation is being conducted into allegations of corruption at a senior level in the organisation. 3 staff have been suspended from duty, one of whom has already resigned. The cases will be progressed in accordance with the Hounslow Homes disciplinary code.”

Sarah Felstead ● 4391d

http://democraticservices.hounslow.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=254&MId=7961&Ver=4

Phil Andrews ● 4395d

Item 15 at next Tuesday borough council might be of interest

Gill Hutchison ● 4395d

I would think that all fraud investigations are by their very nature complicated affairs, and it is very difficult to be able to say anything if there is a case and the police are involved as it would then be sub-judice. It's all very well speculating but none of us actually knows anything.

Vanessa Smith ● 4403d

I suppose it is another guess that it is going on at all?

Sarah Felstead ● 4403d

Nearly 6 months without any further update from either HH or LBH not looking good for either parties.What is needed is a complete Financial Review of HH asap no excuses!!!

Dawn Hardy ● 4403d

If the alleged fraud has not been officially reported to the Police then there really is no need for the investigation to have taken so long.Is there???

Dawn Hardy ● 4403d

Just a thought,Politicians have a habit of bringing in the Police to negate the necessity of making a statement in the hope that we the voter will forget!Silly really it just makes one all the more determined that the truth will out.

Dawn Hardy ● 4403d

Then surely if there was nothing to hush up (Generalising)would you not give an official statement with facts to nullify these allegations?

Dawn Hardy ● 4403d

Just how long has this supposed investigation taken already?

Dawn Hardy ● 4403d

It rather depends on whether this investigation is in-house or a reputable Audit Company has been employed. However the time it has taken it does appear to be in-house a very bad move. Answers should start to appear at regular intervals especially as the amount of alleged fraud is going up monthly.The alleged £1 million pounds is an awful lot of Council Tax also at the end of the day LBH must take responsibility for not having yearly audits.Price Waterhouse or Deloitte & Touche are extremely good & well worth the fee.

Dawn Hardy ● 4403d

Well the Council posted this early in August on this thread so by the look of it they have kept it in house"On the separate matter of the disciplinary investigation, Hounslow Homes can confirm that allegations have been made regarding a breach of our code of conduct. Such allegations are always treated very seriously and investigated in accordance with the Hounslow Homes Disciplinary Procedure.If our investigation reveals evidence of wrong doing, the Hounslow Homes disciplinary procedure will be invoked and appropriate action taken against the staff members concerned."

Paul Fisher ● 4403d

Or maybe it wasn't reported as a possible crime, to the Police? Lets face it everyone else knows so maybe we are guessing that the Police are investigating?

Sarah Felstead ● 4403d

Or maybe it wasn't reported as a possible crime, to the Police?

Sarah Felstead ● 4403d

I don't know enough to say at the moment whether the managers have hushed something up or if there's nothing to hush up.

Ian Speed ● 4403d

"if people who are not establishment puppets get elected."What paper do you read? 'establishment puppets' what utter nonsense, clueless and gutless possibly, but if the police are involved then it will take as long as it takes. Better they  their time if it's very involved than rush and let the guilty people off on a technicality I would have thought.

Vanessa Smith ● 4403d

So you are saying it is politics driving the law and not the Police?

Sarah Felstead ● 4404d

Paul - you'd be looking at pension strain in excess of £200k plus a high five figure redundancy claim.

Ian Speed ● 4404d

Hopefully this issue will be raised again after the election if people who are not establishment puppets get elected.

Ian Speed ● 4404d

Bump.

Sarah Felstead ● 4405d

Wouldn't an FOI tell you? Also remember that Ms. O'Shea was at Hounslow for a good many years before getting the job with Hopeless Homes.

Vanessa Smith ● 4408d

Strange how this investigation is taking so long and points to a cover up in my eyesOn another matter concerning HH I wonder how much Bernadette O`Shea received in pay and pension benefits when she left after what 6 years at the helm?

Paul Fisher ● 4408d

Carillion are indeed, like Laings, a contractor. They were one of the two companies that were formed when Tarmac plc split into two in 1999.

David Giles ● 4436d

Carillion are NOT an ALMO - they have taken over the previous Laings function of the contract for the library service. And for what it's worth I think taking HH functions back 'in 'house' had been on the cards long before this. I just think the whole thing is a mess, we've got two double fronted 3 bed houses sitting around here abandoned since late summer - it is a bloody farce.

Vanessa Smith ● 4436d

Bernadette O'Shea, chief executive, had her leaving do on Friday 29th November at Feltham library which is now by another ALMO Carillion. All in it together!!

Karan Kad ● 4437d

I think I've answered this with my post at 15:40.

Phil Andrews ● 4438d

DawnThe housing operation at any local authority has its own self-contained budget, this is called the Housing Revenue Account (HRA).  In Hounslow the bulk of this money is held by Hounslow Homes although some is held by LBH itself and spent client-side.This budget is solely for housing purposes and monies cannot be added from the general fund, nor taken away to be spent elsewhere.Each year officers from Hounslow Homes and client-side housing prepare their budget and it is then presented to the Lead Member who will (or at least should) interrogate the figures, ask questions and make recommendations.  Ultimately he has the power to amend or reject the HRA budget and it is only presented to Borough Council for final approval, in his name, once he is completely happy with it.Thus it is the local authority, not its ALMO, which is ultimately responsible for how rent monies, leaseholder charges and other income are distributed and spent.  Any financial dealings within the ALMO are entirely the responsibility of the local authority and if there is any corruption or wrongdoing then this is where the buck must ultimately stop.

Phil Andrews ● 4438d

Both were extremely helpful.

Dawn Hardy ● 4438d

Thanks Guy,I must say that I am appalled at LBH for negating their responsibility for a £90 Million Grant,they should still have maintained hands on as far as a yearly Audit of their Assets  were concerned to ensure all was well. Surely ALMO should not mean Carte Blanch.

Dawn Hardy ● 4438d

Phil,Thank you so much better understand the situation now.In essence HH are a subsidiary company of LBH who therefore should have had complete yearly financial reports of expenditure plus assets.Otherwise although the homes are owned by LBH they have absolutely no control of the finances.Surely this ALMO did not mean that Council Housing was completely alienated from their owners this being LBH.I don't know about running a Council but I do know big business,the onus for this alleged fraud must surely rest with LBH for there lack of concern.In all my years I have never heard the like LBH literally gave away council housing leasing for £90 Million to HH which had been conceived to enable that grant which was to be used to refurbish said properties.Rents thereafter presumably were used to maintain these properties also salaries for staffing all this with absolutely no control over them by LBH. Quite frankly a full audit and investigations of these allegations should have happened as soon as the first rumblings started!!

Dawn Hardy ● 4438d

This largely made redundant by Phil's more informed response!

Guy Lambert ● 4439d

Dawn - can't say I'm an expert but this might help -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arms-length_management_organisationHounslow Homes is an Arms Length Management Organisation - commonly known as ALMOs. These were introduced by the Labour Government a few years ago and I know local authorities were under some pressure (financial I believe) to set them up. They don't own the houses, they merely manage them. I'm not sure why there was a push for ALMOs. I think it was intended to make the management of housing more efficient but I don't understand what the arguments were.There has been a recent announcement: http://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=concouncil001.htmabout some of the HH duties being taken back in house at the council, though they say this has nothing to do with the alleged fraud

Guy Lambert ● 4439d

DawnMany ex-council homes were sold off under Right To Buy, but that's something entirely different.The deal with Hounslow Homes is that they are a housing management company wholly owned by the London Borough of Hounslow.  The homes are still owned by LBH, Hounslow Homes just maintains them.The reason for the creation of HH was that in 2001 the then government decreed that all council properties had to be brought up to what it called Decent Homes Standard by a certain date.  Hounslow was told that if it transferred the management of its housing stock to what is called an Arms' Length Management Organisation (ALMO) it would receive £90m of government funding for this very purpose.  If it didn't, it wouldn't receive any money.Under the circumstances the decision to set up Hounslow Homes and to entrust it with the management of all LBH's housing stock was taken at Borough Council, with full cross-party agreement.  Under the circumstances we could have done little else.The local authority did not sell its properties to Hounslow Homes and Hounslow Homes does not own them.Hope that is helpful.

Phil Andrews ● 4439d

PhilHelp me out here,did LBH sell off our "ex-Council Houses"if so how much did the borough gain and what was it spent on.If not why not,I really do find it hard to understand.Appreciate your input.

Dawn Hardy ● 4439d

DawnLBH's housing management services are only "outsourced" inasfar as they have been transferred to a company wholly owned by itself.  LBH is the sole shareholder of Hounslow Homes and it is solely within the gift of the local authority to either bring the service back in-house, or indeed to outsource it completely to a third party.

Phil Andrews ● 4439d

How could this possibly happen over a period of years,although  housing is outsourced surely LBH Auditors would have looked through Financial Records if not why not.1 Million is an awful lot of money to come out of our budget,I say ours because it is we the ppl whose contributions keep Councils running. So come on ppl if you have relevant information about this alleged fraud then help out.A very black mark on LBH if proved true!!!

Dawn Hardy ● 4439d

"re - bump for Rachpaul by Xanthe  ..."I found what you meant on Chiswick W4.The posting is as followsTopic - Fraud by Hounslow Homes' Employee(s)Posted by - Rachhpaul Bedi" I am in the process of collating as much information/evidence as possible, about the fraud that took place over a number of years in Hounslow Homes Limited, but, only came to light not that long ago. It was further disseminated that a sum of 1 million GBP or thereabout was siphoned-off, by all those who had been responsible. It beggars belief that none at Hounslow Homes and its Controllers, the Council of the London Borough of Hounslow, noticed such a big hole in its finances! I have been informed in response to my previous "Message" that BrenfordTW8" was the one, which had most details. I am afraid I am not aware of the precise date and it would help, if I had that information. However, in order to get to the root of this fraud and those involved/responsible, can anyone please;  provide precise evidence/information, so that it can be produced in evidence in a court of law."End.

Sarah Felstead ● 4439d

bump for rachpaul.

Xanthe West ● 4440d

It has gone very quiet.It is very worrying when tenants who may well be vulnerable find that they are unable to get help from their Councillors when dealing with their housing problems with an outfit like this created to provide them with housing.

Philippa Bond ● 4443d

Actually CE Bernadette O'Shea is leaving as she is just eligible for early retirement, although that doesn't mean any failing of hers to stop this fraud should be overlooked, if so it should prove.

Ian Speed ● 4484d

They better hurry up Hounslow Homes will be gone soon. Could be taken back into LBOH control, no doubt the same people will be running it if it ever happens

Paul Allen ● 4485d

It will however prove interesting if these allegations of Fraud are found to be true will the people responsible have their assets sold off and the money reimbursed to LBH otherwise it will once again be you and I who will foot the bill.

Dawn Hardy ● 4486d

If there is an ongoing police investigation they can't comment as this may prejudice any legal action later.

Vanessa Smith ● 4486d

Sarah this is very well put. When they want to hang one of their tenants out to dry over a small sum, they delight in doing so, yet they may have been a little shy in doing so over a much fraud by a 'trusted' member of staff.

Ian Speed ● 4486d

I thought I saw a snippet in The Chronicle about this topic so I googled Hounslow Homes and fraud.  When Hounslow Homes write about fraud from their tenants it is serious stuff and people are sent to prison for much much smaller sums.  There is even a link to this thread and to comments made by Ruth Cadbury on sub letting fraud.Any how, I found the paper and inside the front page of the issue dated October 18 it says"Police have been informed of an ongoing fraud investigation being carried out by Hounslow Homes.The Chronicle revealed in August that a major probe into alleged staff corruption had been launched by the Councils housing arm, which manages 16,500 homes for the Borough.A spokeswoman this week told the Chronicle the probe was still ongoing and police had now been informed.  She was unable to say when the inquiry was expected to conclude.Sources have told the Chronicle that senior staff are among those under investigation over alleged fraud, believed to involve hundreds of thousands of pounds.  Hounslow Homes refused to comment on details of the investigation,"

Sarah Felstead ● 4486d

If Hounslow Homes have done this it should be dragged into the light

Ian Speed ● 4486d

The subject of local government staff fraud was featured on the Sunday Politics show (BBC) a few days ago. The piece was introduced by Jo Coburn, who lives in the Borough.Sadly the average figure for fraud is 5% of local authority budgets. Some councils do tackle it and see that offending staff are referred to the police for investigation but other councils remain silent and cover it up seeing it is an embarrassment to their perceived 'good reputation.'

Martyn Taylor ● 4486d

I am surprised the Chronicle has not been following this story up with more vigour

Paul Fisher ● 4499d

Sarah Felstead ● 4500d

Certainly was enough coverage of the 2004 'fraud', a shambles of unproven allegations which also occurred on Bernadette O'Shea's watch.

Ian Speed ● 4521d

Agreed, but a brief outline would be helpful to maintain trust e.g. Hounslow Homes have called in the police after an allegation of fraud was made by ... The allegations centre around ...Fraud only exists in a climate of secrecy. The more secret the organisation the more likely fraud will occur.

Martyn Taylor ● 4521d

Well if there is a police investigation ongoing then no-one can officially comment, probably sub-judice. Any comment could prejudice a prosecution.

Vanessa Smith ● 4522d

What's the role of the Hounslow Homes Communications Team? Why are they so good at not communicating anything?

Martyn Taylor ● 4522d

Vanessa thanks for drawing this into the light, this makes it even more imperative that it is properly investigated.

Ian Speed ● 4522d

I heard that too.Apparently the Hounslow Homes Roadshows for staff have been cancelled at short notice. Senior HH managers were to talk about the future of the organisation. Maybe Hounslow Homes doesn't have a future!

Martyn Taylor ● 4523d

Rumour has it that the fraud could total £5M! Must admit I thought that was massive, but if we are talking large contracts etc. it would be quite feasible.

Vanessa Smith ● 4527d

It is all too typical of you to deliberately misuse words - the 'credit' I spoke of does not refer to the content merely that they produced it themselves, the content is quite another matter. I wasn't overly impressed. It's obvious you are in election mode and will now use any opportunity to big yourself up, fine, carry on, but don't criticise others who are doing exactly the same. See my comment on the IPH thread.

Vanessa Smith ● 4527d

Well fair play to you for that.  And hopefully you'll not vote for nor give succour to those who do either, but that's one for the future.On another matter though, I note you feel the Isleworth ward councillors should be given "credit" for their recent leaflet.  One of the many claims the leaflet makes is that they have in some way "saved" Isleworth Public Hall.  However I was at a meeting of the IPH Users' Group last night at which everybody was quite clear that the Hall is anything but "saved".In the light of your comments on another thread acknowledging the value of the Public Hall to the local community and recognising the efforts of such groups as The Isleworth Society and Friends of IPH, do you believe it is to the "credit" of the ward councillors that they should make a claim that both you and I (and no doubt they also) know is patently untrue?

Phil Andrews ● 4527d

If you mean bending the truth or telling lies - no I'm not, but then I have no need to. I don't intend standing for election and trying to make innuendos about my opponents. The fact is that I am only speaking from my experience, and I doubt that much has changed.

Vanessa Smith ● 4527d

Well I still don't see how you would know either way, or why you should be so concerned to "correct" my misapprehensions in any case, bearing in mind that you are no longer involved with the party.  You're really not very good at this, are you?

Phil Andrews ● 4527d

Sorry - but I disagree entirely with what you are saying. Sue's post only confirms what is true, Robin is a member of the Labour party and he has helped out in Isleworth occasionally at election time. This is not unusual we got people from all over the place helping out at election time that does not translate into undue, or indeed any, influence. And certainly not to any on-going sway within the larger Labour group. That is far and away a different picture to the one you are trying desperately to paint, You're not averse to using Tory tactics though are you? Demonise someone often enough and badly enough and hey presto! It becomes a fact - Sorry sunbeam not in this case it doesn't.

Vanessa Smith ● 4527d

Well just possibly I had this little gem in mind:Sue Sampson is, of course, one of the three elected Labour councillors for Isleworth ward.  And yet you are asking people on this forum to believe, without question or query, that you - who, remember, has nothing at all to do with the Isleworth ward party any more - knows something about the Isleworth ward party that one of the Isleworth ward party's own councillors doesn't!You are right about one thing Vanessa, if I live to 100 I will never understand your logic.  But what I can say is you must love the taste of shoe leather.

Phil Andrews ● 4527d

I don't know whether to be flattered or just laugh at this -on balance it sounds like the ravings of a loon! That you or your mates in the ICG give a second thought to the inner workings of my mind is bonkers. The fact that I have never re-joined the Labour party - or thought of doing so - says something? Clearly nothing anybody says will convince you that Robin Taylor has bugger all to do with the Isleworth Labour party - you are fixated on this. You wouldn't even give credit to the local members for composing their own recent leaflet for God's sake. As a resident I believe - and I'm sure you'll correct me if I have got it wrong - that I have every right to criticise or complain or praise  elected members regardless of political affiliation depending on the issue? I am not accountable to you or anyone else but I would say perhaps you need to speak to some other horses because I think someone's winding you up, Robin's 'wielding of influence' is complete and utter B/S. Oh! You'd be a very, very clever man if you could understand the complex thought processes of the female brain..................I'd give it up now if I were you.

Vanessa Smith ● 4527d

John, I will be honest with you.  When I am in political mode, which is more far often than I would prefer these days, I am grateful to have the likes of Robin for my opposition.Indeed, if I could design my own identikit opponent he would look something like Robin, maybe with a hint of Vanessa and a small sprinkling of David Hughes for good measure.I haven't seen Robin in the flesh either.  He makes a point of avoiding me.  It is one of the few intelligent decisions that he consistently makes.  Nevertheless he certainly does wield some influence over Labour Party strategy in Isleworth and I know that because I have heard it from the horse's mouth (no, not his).You may also recall a little exchange of views on this forum when Councillor Theo Dennison denounced Robin as a "poisonous twerp" and protested, as others have done, that he had no influence in the local party.  No sooner had he hit the "Send" button than a member of the Executive, no less, came onto the forum especially to contradict him!I very much doubt whether Robin has the ear of Colin Ellar, or of other senior members of the party outside of Isleworth.  But Isleworth ward is and has long been a law unto itself.  Its campaign material has long had its own uniquely nasty style, and this unpleasantness has been passed down from one generation of party members to another.  I am not the only person to have noticed a common thread.It is a mite ironic that you should have believed there was no Robin Taylor and that you were put straight on this by Vanessa.  We in the ICG have a theory that there are in fact two Vanessas.  One left the Labour Party in or around 2006 and stood for election for your Hounslow Independent Alliance.  The other still wears her red rosette to bed and chants the party song before a framed and signed photo of Jagdish every morning before breakfast.  Both post on this forum from time to time. As you know at least one of them better than I do I was wondering if you might be able to help me to make some kind of sense of this?  Because I'll be damned if I can.

Phil Andrews ● 4528d

Andrew, did you leave your brain in the office in the Civic Centre when you vacated in 2010? Believe me, I was "in the thick of it" in Hounslow's Labour Group from 1982 to 2004 and it was after that date when Vanessa advised me that Robin, who I always had assumed was one of Phil's alter egos, was a real person. I have still to meet him in the flesh. His influence on the Labour Group was non-existent in my days and I doubt that has changed.

John Connelly ● 4528d

Robin Taylor??

Andrew Sibley ● 4528d

'Colin Ellar without a shadow of doubt is the answer and if your not one of his cosy comrades in the Peoples Republic of Hounslow then you will soon be shown the door' - Paul, I doubt that lummox could ever be a puppet-master.There's someone else pulling his strings in the background.The only reason he's comfortable in the PRH is because he: a) turns a blind eye when dodgy deals take place; b) he gets a cut in the dodgy dealings taking place or c) he's too thick to see what's going on.  But he's not the puppet-master, that's for sure.He might be tugging the strings of others in the local labour party these days but there is someone else controlling him.

Xanthe West ● 4534d

"What I want to know who is Hounslow's puppet-master?  Just who is pulling the strings?"Colin Ellar without a shadow of doubt is the answer and if your not one of his cosy comrades in the Peoples Republic of Hounslow then you will soon be shown the door

Paul Fisher ● 4534d

Well a friend of mine received an email from one of the local councillors - Matt Harmer - who'd we'd always thought of as 'one of the good guys', blaming the coalition on HH's failings on interpreting recent legislation.  She told him he was 'acting like a six year old'.  He didn't address the issue she'd raised.  Perhaps he'd been receiving lessons from Curran?  I recall when one of my boys had attended a public meeting in Brentford and was horrified to see a councillor - identified from a photo in one of the local publications as Curran - sniggering and guffawing with a pair of cronies when certain people spoke and kinda made a mockery of the meeting.  I asked son if he'd managed to get any of this on his iphone but no....he was so shocked that councillors behaved liked this he didn't even think to get his phone out to record it. Curran's no better (or worse) than the majority of Hounslow councillors - he's just a puppet.  What I want to know who is Hounslow's puppet-master?  Just who is pulling the strings?

Xanthe West ● 4534d

Given my recent dealings with Hopeless Homes I'm surprised they are even on receive never mind able to communicate. Ineffective is the kind version of totally useless - they ignore everything, so I'd say they're incompetence is matched only be their total lack of common courtesy. Cllr. Curran needs to get a grip and give them the kick up the a**e they deserve.

Vanessa Smith ● 4534d

Cllr. Curran has said that the police are now involved. That said, I haven't seen a press release from Hounslow Homes to that effect. When organisations are secretive with their news it automatically makes them look suspicious in the eyes of the public. Why are the HH Communications Team so ineffective?

Martyn Taylor ● 4534d

Just a thought - I wonder if HFTRA have considered calling in the Police if this could affect the housing revenue account which is tenant's money? The council seem to have been hot enough on HFTRA, putting their own house in order first would seem to be a good idea.

Vanessa Smith ● 4541d

It would only be public money though Ian so no skin of the administrations nose

Paul Fisher ● 4541d

There are 2 issues here - has there been a fraud, and if so have managers at Hounslow Homes covered it up and are not going to call in the police. If they don't, it would be impossible to for them to claim any restitution from the council's insurers, which could lead to the permanent loss of hundreds of thousands of pounds, depending on the original sum involved.

Ian Speed ● 4541d

It makes one wonder how much the elected Members know about the fraud(s.) Is information being passed to them, or do they know what's going on and choose to remain silent? dah - not my remit...

Lee Russell ● 4541d

Not to mention the strange arrangements with United House which needs a good look at. Holidays abroad, 3D TVs and a selection of other sweeteners

Anthony Waller ● 4542d

It will be interesting to see what enhanced redundancy package will be offered to Ms O`Shea when she leaves considering that even in this difficult economic climate Hounslow Homes found an extra £250,000 to top up redundancy payments to the front line staff they laid off in the last year or soWould be nice if those in the private sector had the same perk thats for sure

Paul Fisher ● 4542d

Paul,I agree with that sentiment.Sadly this type of corruption puts people off politics and politicians. No wonder that younger people are not engaging with politics. Having said that, I can't believe this type of scandal would have been tackled in the same secretive way in the days of the Community Group/Conservative alliance.

Lee Russell ● 4549d

Looks like HH and the Council are doing their utmost to sweep this under the carpet and I would not be surprised to see anyone who loses their position because of these allegations still getting a very well enhanced golden handshake when shown the door

Paul Fisher ● 4550d

Good Lord if the Council went to the Police and they started investigating properly, not only would it cost almost the entire budget for the borough but would probably lead back to...the council!!They won't be doing that!

Raymond Havelock ● 4553d

Apparently Hounslow Council would have to report the matter to the Police.  Does anyone know if they have done so?

Sarah Felstead ● 4553d

Further rumour reaches me that if certain individuals will resign quietly then no further action will be taken, and I stress this is a rumour. However, as the money that Hounslow Homes deals with is from tenants it would seem right and proper to call in the police for a proper investigation, it is outrageous to think that a blind eye could be turned into circumstances such as this.

Vanessa Smith ● 4553d

Vanessa,That seems to be the case but Hounslow Homes is a company with a single shareholder - the Council. The fraud is also being committed against the Council and they have been far too slow to exert proper leadership here. If £1m has been defrauded that means £1m in extra cuts to staff and services. It's not a victim-less crime.

Lee Russell ● 4555d

http://content.met.police.uk/Site/fraudalert

Sarah Felstead ● 4555d

This is corruption and cowardice on a grand scale.

Ian Speed ● 4555d

Surely anyone can report a fraud?

Sarah Felstead ● 4555d

The problem is that this is an 'arms length' organisation so not sure how much Hounslow council can lean on them. Any outfit that investigates itself is daft - if you want to be seen to be fair and for people to have confidence in you then you need an outside investigation to be done.

Vanessa Smith ● 4555d

I heard the top managers in Hounslow Homes have blocked it, despite taking some advice. They don't want the adverse publicity. Sad.

Lee Russell ● 4555d

Do we know if the police have been involved yet?

Paul Fisher ● 4556d

In that case shouldn't Bernadette O'Shea be leaving asap? Unconfiormed reports say that the dummy company's stores site has been found in Camberley. I agree with the majority who say this should be handed over to the police, although the internal investigator seems to be on the ball.

Lee Russell ● 4558d

I don't think knowledge of housing would have been high on the list of requirements at the time of her appointment as head of Hounslow Homes.

John Connelly ● 4559d

Well I have to confess that I have always wondered what knowledge of housing the head of HH had.

Vanessa Smith ● 4559d

In the Chron it talks of hundreds of thousands of pounds, which has to mean a police investigation as well if HH is to take this seriously. Not only should fraudulent staff obviously be disciplined and prosecuted, but anyone incompetent enough to let this happen under their nose should also face an internal enquiry.

Ian Speed ● 4560d

In today's Chronicle a Hounslow Homes spokesperson talks of allegations made regarding a breach of our code of conduct. This makes it sound like two staff have been accused of taking a biro pen and 24 sheets of A4 photocopy paper. The language used doesn't lend itself to taking the issue seriously or getting to the bottom of it. How can Bernadette O'Shea's staff look at personal bank accounts or examine the records of payments to a well know building supplier or ever hope to recover any money lost? Surely, only the police can do that. Is there a cover up going on here, or is it just the language being used that sounds ineffective?

Lee Russell ● 4560d

Yes, it was blackmail pure and simple - do it or forfeit the money to spend on homes. However, the Labour government's record on housing can only be described at best as pretty dismal and just plain wrong. But to go on and outsource more and more services is plain stupid and it doesn't work, and I don't believe Hopeless Homes worked, that might be down to the senior appointments but all this 'arms length' nonsense means you lose sight and control of providing a decent service. Yes, it was Hobson's Choice at the time and a bit like the previous CiP debacle something else that wasn't brilliant to say the least, although looking back, brilliant, compared with Fusion, should be renamed CONFusion.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

VanessaI've certainly no cause to defend the Tories but I don't see how they can be held responsible for the creation of Hounslow Homes.Hounslow Homes was introduced under a Labour administration under duress from a Labour government, which had ruled that local authorities were required to bring their properties up to what it termed Decent Homes Standard by a given date, but the funds with which to do so were only available if the ALMO option was followed.As a consequence Borough Council voted unanimously to set up Hounslow Homes, and received £90m in government funding as a result.  You voted for it and so did I.  One could say it was by far the best option at the time inasmuch as it was the only option available.

Phil Andrews ● 4560d

"Is it that large Borough Corporations are unable to deal with such large and diverse populations and needs?"Not sure what you mean by that? The received thinking was that outsourcing services previously done by the council's own workforce was the Holy Grail of public service delivery. I never believed it for one minute as these companies operate to make a profit as do the utility companies, I'm afraid service to customers is way down their list of priorities. It is not about service it's about a hard headed business proposition, this was basically forced on local authorities by the constant cuts of which their own personnel was generally the biggest target group. To let any contract requires someone to cover all the possible eventualities which the contractor would have to deal with - a task almost impossible I would think unless you have second sight or a crystal ball. On top of that you have staff who are quite possibly on minimum wages with less than great conditions and have no loyalty to the borough, what can you expect?The Tories can bang on all they like about efficiency - but it's always at a cost in the end. Councils are in such an invidious position now, they are left with little choice and it is the residents who ultimately suffer, be it roads, housing or refuse collections, but hey you know what they keep the council tax down - what you have to ask yourself is - is it really worth the couple of pounds saved?

Vanessa Smith ● 4561d

Why is it that so many outsourced council services seem to end up falling way short of the mark or susceptible to fiddles and corruption and yet often make a lot of money for the operators who invariably walk away?CiP, Laings, Hounslow Homes, who next  Serco ?And it's not isolated to Hounslow, it seems to be common all over.Is it that large Borough Corporations are unable to deal with such large and diverse populations and needs?

Anthony Waller ● 4561d

Welcome to the forum Lee.  It is always nice to see a new poster, especially when there is information to be conveyed.Needless to say if there is an allegation of criminal activity this needs to be thoroughly investigated and, if substantiated, prosecuted with the full force of the law.However I am concerned that not only might the reputation of Hounslow Homes be tarnished, but that in the event of these allegations proving to be of substance this fact may provide the administration with the excuse it needs to bring the whole operation back under its own wing.Whilst I do not have a problem with the notion of an in-house service per se, indeed as I have related before I seriously considered doing the exact same thing in 2006 when I was Lead Member, recent events surrounding the current Lead Member's treatment of the Hounslow Federation of Tenants' and Residents' Associations (HFTRA) would lead any reasonable person to the view that under current conditions this would be a very retrograde step for our tenants and leaseholders (for more information take a look at HFTRA's new website at http://www.hftra2013.org).I do hope that whatever the outcome of the investigation, any response by the local authority is measured and proportionate.  Unless it can be demonstrated that the entire organisation was complicit in any irregular activity, the entire organisation should not be made to carry the can.

Phil Andrews ● 4561d

I feel sorry for the majority of staff who are hard working. Also for the tenants and leaseholders. If a substantial sum of money has been siphoned off into a dummy company account it will have to be made good by more cuts to services or more redundancies. The scandal could tarnish the reputation and credibility of Hounslow Homes.

Lee Russell ● 4561d

I think probably a healthy dose of cynicism is in order, you only had to be a witness to see some of their working practices and the speed of work to know that no-one was keeping an eye on things. Why should it be any different with the admin and accounts?

Vanessa Smith ● 4561d

As people have said, the wheels at Hounslow Homes turn very slowly. As I understand it one internal Hounslow Homes investigator is trying to unravel a huge amount of fraud leads, including one at a national building supply company that caretaking services uses. It is estimated that it's 4 months work for him. Perhaps the senior managers will hope that tenants will have forgotten about it by then. Or am I being cynical ?

Lee Russell ● 4561d

Not as far as I know - so the rumours were true. What an unholy mess.

Vanessa Smith ● 4561d

Is there any more news on this today?

Phil Andrews ● 4561d

I wonder if Hounslow Homes are able to tell us if the police have been called in to assist the investigation...

Lee Russell ● 4562d

This message is being sent on behlf of Hounslow Homes in response to the original post.Statement from Hounslow Homes "Following the recent decision by the council to bring a significant number of functions back previously run by Hounslow Homes back in house, the board agreed to review the senior management arrangements. On 31 July the board received a confidential report on the senior management arrangements for the company prepared by an independent specialist advisor.The board have agreed to implement the recommendations that the chief executive post be re-designated and re-graded as a ‘managing director’ and are currently consulting with senior management and will confirm the outcomes at the end of August. The board decided to take no action relating to any other senior post. As a consequence and in line with procedures the chief executive has been issued with a ‘vulnerable to redundancy notice’. In any event the chief executive will be with Hounslow Homes for the next four months and carrying on with all day to day responsibilitiesOn the separate matter of the disciplinary investigation, Hounslow Homes can confirm that allegations have been made regarding a breach of our code of conduct. Such allegations are always treated very seriously and investigated in accordance with the Hounslow Homes Disciplinary Procedure.If our investigation reveals evidence of wrong doing, the Hounslow Homes disciplinary procedure will be invoked and appropriate action taken against the staff members concerned.We are unable to comment on the details of any specific case which must remain confidential between the individual and their employer."

Corporate Communications ● 4562d

Yes, that fits with the rumours I had heard - I understand the head of HH has been given 3 months notice but is not implicated in the fraud, mind you how that person got the job in the first place is a mystery to me. Looking at the speed - or lack thereof - that they do anything, can't say this comes as a shock.

Vanessa Smith ● 4562d