Forum Topic

Agreed Alex.  Anyway I've just emailed Councillor Mayne, copy below for public interest :Dear Councillor Mayne, I’m aware from email correspondence with Vanessa Smith that she has been in dialogue with you in respect of ongoing concerns relating to the highway improvement works to the centre of Isleworth, and in particular the South Street/Twickenham Road mini-roundabout.  I believe Vanessa has drawn your attention to my various postings on this matter on the Brentford TW8 forum also. However, I now wish to place on record my serious concerns regarding the Council’s apparent indifference to the dangerous situation that has been generated by these works, with particular focus upon the northbound approach to the mini-roundabout.  It genuinely staggers me that any human being who either spends a short time observing this approach at peak times, or drives along this approach, could not recognise these fundamental dangers/faults, yet the lack of any action appears to suggest that the Council consider the situation is satisfactory. I should stress, as you may be aware, that as a previous Local Government employee for 10 years, and a previous LB Hounslow employee for 5 years, it is not in my nature to complain about Council Officers, as having worked on that side of the fence I have a personal appreciation of the difficulties Councils face.  However, the implementation of these works, and in particular the continuing presence of erroneous signage and poor road markings despite the concerns raised by the public, has been the most pathetic example of Council conduct I have ever witnessed. A simple walk along Twickenham Road will immediately reveal erroneous highway signage in both directions approaching the roundabout, as both approaches are signposted by a red triangular warning sign indicating either a left or right turn ahead (depending on the direction of approach) with that turn being into South Street.  That signage is entirely wrong and a historic relic of the previous junction arrangement.  That signage should be replaced by a red triangular warning sign announcing a roundabout ahead, as currently the first time drivers are aware of the roundabout is by way of the small blue roundabout circulation signs positioned literally 5 metres before the roundabout.  Whilst it is not my field of professional expertise, I have checked the relevant regulations and guidance and there is nothing to prevent advance red triangular warning signs announcing a roundabout ahead being used in such circumstances. The second key shortcoming is that, in respect of the northbound approach, the road markings dating from the previous junction arrangement have only been “blacked out”.  However, as photos posted on one of the Brentford TW8 threads by Sarah Felstead demonstrate, and as can be witnessed by any driver travelling northbound, depending upon the angle of view and the light available, it looks to a drover as though those markings are still operational, especially when illuminated by car headlights at night. As a consequence, it is commonplace for drivers to believe, especially given the fact the actual remaining single lane is approximately 1.5 car widths wide, that if they wish to turn right at the mini-roundabout into South Street that they can overtake queuing traffic.  Such an action results in either (a) drivers feeling intimidated ending up positioned completely in the cycle lane, thereby blocking use of the cycle lane, rendering it useless and making the junction more dangerous to cyclists than it ever has been, or (b) drivers turning right overtaking correctly positioned queuing traffic being forced to cross the central reservation so that a substantial part of their vehicle is travelling on the opposite carriageway against the direction of traffic flow, thereby greatly increasing the risk of a head-on collision.  Both of the above results, which I personally witness on a daily basis and have done so now for months, also cause considerable ill feeling between drivers and cyclists, and inevitably increase the risk of road rage incidents. There can be no doubt that if action is not taken promptly to replace the erroneous signage and properly resurface the entire northbound approach (including a hatched area to ensure northbound traffic is correctly funneled into one lane approaching the roundabout) a serious accident or incident will occur, and I urge you to make remedying the shortcomings I (and others) have identified a priority before that happens. I look forward to hearing from you.

Adam Beamish ● 4231d

I'm going to contact Cllr. Ed Mayne myself tomorrow about this whole debacle of the South Street roundabout, I know from corresponding off-forum with Vanessa that she's been repeatedly in touch with him about this and I'm going to add to that.Aside from all the obvious problems with erroneous signage, which judging by its lack of action the Council couldn't care less about, the northbound approach is a serious accident waiting to happen, and when it does the Council will have blood on its hands.Aanyone approaching the mini-roundabout from the south cannot see from the road marking that there is now only one lane, because although the blacked out marks are hard enough to identity in the daylight, when it's dark a driver sees markings indicating that a two lane approach remains in place.Tonight I was driving northbound and correctly positioned in traffic queuing for the roundabout.  The car infront of me was turning right and intimidated the driver of the car infront by forcing his way past leaving the car infront of me completely in the cycle lane.  The car behind me tried a similar tactic with me, but I maintained a correct position in the centre of the single lane, resulting in the driver behind me overtaking me with at least half their car width on the southbound carriageway.At some point Hounslow's luck will run out and some poor sod is going to get seriously hurt.  It genuinely disgusts and amazes that Hounslow are not doing anything about this, I really can't believe how Officers and Councillors can either  be so blind, stupid or "can't be bothered" about something with such grave potential consequences...

Adam Beamish ● 4231d

Sarah, your photos unfortunately don't capture the red "right turn ahead" warning sign (past the Worton Road junction) which I have been banging about on for months - it seems that no-one at LBH wants to get rid of that sign despite it being out of date for over 6 months now.Based on my observations, most of the traffic which forces its way on the outside of the queuing traffic actually turns left from Worton Road, then immediately hits the queue and starts passing on the outside to the South Street mini-roundabout at which point they turn right.I think the original thread about this issue was started by Vanessa and quickly added to by myself on something like 2nd June, yet here we are in mid December and nothing has been done to address the blatantly obvious deficiencies.You know that I tend to defend Council Officers where I feel they are being unreasonably criticised, but in this particular case I genuinely feel it is the most incompetent and disgraceful use of Council resources I have ever seen, and the fact that no-one (apart from CCF who isn't at LBH anymore and wasn't involved in this project in the first place) at LBH has taken any steps to tackle the problems is beyond my comprehension.  Doesn't any Officer ever get off their arse to take a look for themselves ?.  Don't they ever go along that stretch during their working day ?.  Why did people like us spot the immediate flaws in these 'improvements' but Officers fail to do so during all their modelling exercises and such like ?.The most worrying conclusion in my view is that it is going to take a head-on collision for anyone at LBH to actually address these obvious deficiencies.

Adam Beamish ● 4258d

Street and Roadworks Act 1991Safety measures..(1)An undertaker executing street works shall secure—.(a)that any part of the street which is broken up or open, or is obstructed by plant or materials used or deposited in connection with the works, is adequately guarded and lit, and.(b)that such traffic signs are placed and maintained, and where necessary operated, as are reasonably required for the guidance or direction of persons using the street,.having regard, in particular, to the needs of people with a disability. (2)In discharging in relation to a highway his duty with respect to the placing, maintenance or operation of traffic signs, an undertaker shall comply with any directions given by the traffic authority..The power of the traffic authority to give directions under this subsection is exercisable subject to any directions given by the Secretary of State under section 65 of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984. (3)The Secretary of State may issue or approve for the purposes of this section codes of practice giving practical guidance as to the matters mentioned in subsection (1); and—.(a)so far as an undertaker complies with such a code of practice he shall be taken to comply with that subsection; and.(b)a failure in any respect to comply with any such code is evidence of failure in that respect to comply with that subsection..(4)An undertaker who fails to comply with subsection (1) or (2) commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale..(5)If it appears to the street authority that an undertaker has failed to comply with subsection (1) or (2), they may take such steps as appear to them necessary and may recover from the undertaker the costs reasonably incurred by them in doing so..(6)If a person without lawful authority or excuse—.(a)takes down, alters or removes any fence, barrier, traffic sign or light erected or placed in pursuance of subsection (1) or (2) above, or.(b)extinguishes a light so placed,.he commits an offence and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

Vanessa Smith ● 4271d

“You could make some attempt...” Just for clarity, I no longer work for LBH.“...- how about boards similar to the ones the police use about accidents. Is it really beyond the wit of the traffic department to have a board with a dedicated number asking for views?”How much officer time would be consumed in responding it individual calls requesting chapter-and-verse explanation of the work that is going on, only for the caller to then conclude that they know better?“Frankly it worries me even more if the success - or otherwise, is being decided by Hounslow Highways who aren't the sharpest knives in the drawer judging by their performance thus far.”I didn’t say that.  The designer and client is LBH not Hounslow Highways (HH).  The HH contract is managed by a small team at LBH  - this team is separate from the traffic engineers who (I imagine) will be as disappointed as you are about the delays in completing this project.“You Chris, have a lot more faith than me.” Yes I do. (In life in general by the sound of it.)  I’ve worked with the traffic engineers and some of them (including the man responsible for this scheme) are very good.  But I’ve always said that too little time is spent on communicating the benefits of the various schemes and the reasons for delays in implementation. That's not traditionally been a key skillset for traffic engineers.  That’s why I’ve personally been happy to use the community websites although I appreciate that others haven’t necessarily wanted to expose themselves to the public criticism that I’ve handled over the last 11 years.“As for councillors it really depends on how much interest they take in this particular issue and where this appeared on the agenda. I recall sticky issues always being stuck at the end of an evening meeting in the hopes members would just nod something through on the basis they were tired and wanted to get home. You do wise up to this and move the agenda item around to an early spot!”Unfortunately the traffic and transport schemes have traditionally been placed at the end of the agenda behind all the planning matters.  Many an evening I have listened for long periods to discussion of relatively minor planning matters, only for time or members’ interest (or the audience) to become exhausted as the traffic & transport items have been tabled.  I can assure you that the agenda order is not a deliberate strategy, unless someone has been fooling me for the last 11 years.  Sometimes the minor planning matters have attracted bigger audiences than some quite large traffic matters, which just goes to show how difficult it is to engage people on the latter. The forum chair is at liberty to change the agenda order. 

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 4271d

Oh Vanessa, I think you’re being uncharacteristically unkind to the traffic engineers.  ;-)There would have been a report to IBAF to obtain approval to build the scheme.  If IBAF members believed during the trial period  that it wasn’t working, I’m sure they would have raised it with the officers.  It could have been called in or another report requested.  The difficulty of course is to distinguish between the success or otherwise of the scheme (in terms of how it will work once the dust has settled) and the success or otherwise of the implementation phase, which is largely determined by HH.  In terms of consultation, fair enough.  But who do you consult and how do you balance the views of those affected?  Private motorists – from how far afield – and do you atop them on site to ask them for their opinions of something that hasn’t started or isn’t finished?  Commercial drivers?  Cyclists?  Local residents?  Those walking to the bus stops from further afield?  School students and teachers  using the new wider footway?  You could spend a  fortune on consultation and be none the wiser.  As I’ve said before, I believe the design is sound (but I would say that as I first suggested the mini-roundabout) but it appears the implementation has been somewhat “problematic”.Adam,  last night’s traffic in west London queued from here to breakfast.  There was one lane out on the westbound M4 over Brentford (tailbacks to central London for hours) and an accident on the A4 near Sutton Lane in Chiswick.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 4271d

Vanessa et alThis is what I posted in August:I believe the sequence of work has been /is:1. Temporarily switch off traffic lights and install mini-roundabout with changed lane configuration (including northbound cycle lane) on approaches, plus new zebra crossing on South Parade.2. Monitor effects on traffic for 6-8 weeks.3. Decide whether to make mini-roundabout permanent or revert to previous configuration.4. Make decision – presumably in favour of mini-roundabout.5. Remove signals and construct raised table across junction (as per original design) with permanent painted mini-roundabout .It appears that step 5, which was going to happen in the summer holiday when traffic and pedestrian numbers are lowest, was delayed.  Presumably Hounslow Highways couldn’t fit it into their schedule or subsequently changed their schedule.  The reason for the two-stage approach (marking out the roundabout first then installing the raised table) is to provide an opportunity to test the new configuration before committing to it permanently.  The raised table should slow the traffic and alert drivers to the junction – it’s not usual to install a raised table on a signalised junction as traffic with a green light is likely to be travelling faster than traffic approaching a  mini-roundabout, so you couldn't readily install a raised table then revert to traffic signals.As I said previously, the mini-roundabout is an appropriate configuration here.  It should give all approaches a “fair go” and the single northbound approach lane has (I believe) allowed the very narrow footway outside the school to be widened and the cycle lane to be widened.  If the cycle lane is coloured green after the new road surface is laid, this should have a positive effect on driver behaviour.  If traffic still encroaches on the cycle lane there are further options including rumble strips on the dividing line or “armadillos” than could be considered.  If drivers persist in trying to from two lanes, a double white centre-line could also be installed. I think a similar two-stage approach is taking place at the St John’s Road /Twickenham Road junction – i.e. configuration changes first than resurfacing with installation of a new table.If vehicles are seen to cut across the painted mini-roundabout islands, a further step might be to install a slightly raised island, which is mountable by large vehicles but is more obvious and disruptive to cars and vans than a pained roundabout island.  There are many examples of this, including two not too far from my home in Chiswick at Bath Road/Turnham Green Terrace and Acton Lane/Essex Place, and there are probably other examples in Brentford.

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 4272d