Forum Topic

Benefit Fraud

Will Catriona McDonagh of Hope Close, Brentford 'who falsely claimed almost £95,000.00 in benefits' when found to be living with her partner be required to repay the money? The article re this case does not say whether this is the case. If required to replay the money, how will this be enforced? Finally, does claiming benefit falsely attract a criminal record?

Anne England ● 4263d53 Comments

How right you are Vanessa!

Dawn Hardy ● 4252d

Obviously our opinion differs greatly,let's just leave it at that otherwise we will both be repeating arguments that we have previously used!

Dawn Hardy ● 4252d

Agreed Guy but I think the propaganda from both sides takes some believing

Keith Iddon ● 4253d

Well said Guy......

Iain Muir ● 4253d

VanessaYes, I fear the same. God knows I had my differences with the Lab government but it infuriates me that people keep repeating the utter fiction about the economy that Osborne spouts.

Guy Lambert ● 4253d

Guy, I fear you are wasting your time and energy on this one!

Vanessa Smith ● 4253d

Well I can't comment on your way of life, Dawn.During the 13 years where Labour 'destroyed' the economy (including the 2 or 3 when the banks'excesses came home to roost) the UK economy did very well indeed, outperforming Germany, France and the USA by a comfortable margin.This article refers: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/archives/17297

Guy Lambert ● 4253d

Energy prices will never lower,the only way to stabalise pricing is for either this or any Government to be,to build this Industry once again within the UK. It can be done & must!!Also don't forget those dreadful Green Taxes they have an awful lot to do with exaggerated prices. Out of curiosity what exactly are Green Taxes used for? what benefit have we seen in the UK.

Dawn Hardy ● 4254d

Check the records it happened & Labour "achieved" it during their 13 year destruction of both our Economy & way of Life!!!

Dawn Hardy ● 4254d

Works either way Guy. The £100 a year or so it would probably save us all would cost a lot more in debt repayment on the money New Labour would have to borrow to pay for any nationalisation and the on costs associated with it.

Keith Iddon ● 4256d

Fault is basically Thatcher's for privatising them. Major putting 5% VAT on didn't help.

Ian Speed ● 4256d

Not sure where you get that from, Dawn.

Guy Lambert ● 4256d

10 years of steady growth, NHS and various other services massively improved, growth restarted after a financial crash caused by crazy bank lending to individuals.Followed by 3.5 years of no growth, public services on the way to being messed up, a new unsustainable boom based on private debt and house price rises, desperately reduced investment by both public and private sector, ramping up of PFI, exports falling, U turns every 4 minutes.The eec ceased to exist 20 years ago, when the EU was formed. If you're suggesting that the EU will block the freeze, the fact that other countries (EG France, Spain) have energy price controls suggests that's nonsense.

Guy Lambert ● 4256d

I think you meant a Labour gov would be a high price to pay for the benefit of lower fuel prices, rather than lower fuel prices a high price to pay for the benefit of a Lab govt. (Which is what you said)

Guy Lambert ● 4256d

If freezing energy prices was within eec free market rules how come no other govn. has done so and why would any of them not?

Keith Iddon ● 4256d

However is Labour had not passed a bill whilst in Power permitting Energy Companies to raise their prices by 40% we would not be paying exorbitant charges now.

Dawn Hardy ● 4256d

What have I got the 'wrong way round' exactly? And you have forgotten to mention the eec. After 13 years of 'jam today' we all know how much we can trust New Labour.

Keith Iddon ● 4257d

Why would they be handing it back?

Phil Andrews ● 4258d

I think you got that the wrong way round.And the chances of the energy companies throwing their toys out of the pram are zero. People with a licence to print money don't normally hand it back simply because they are told they have to print a bit less for a while. Oh, and the labour pledge has already cut bills by £50 this winter if you believe what Ed Davey says.

Guy Lambert ● 4258d

I agree Vanessa but it would be a high price to pay for a Labour govn.

Keith Iddon ● 4259d

Comment make on Radio 4 actually Guy just to put you in touch with the real world.

Keith Iddon ● 4259d

We'll see. Was that the Mail or the Sun Keith?

Guy Lambert ● 4259d

Not a chance that will happen.  At best a Labour government will be a stop-gap until the next Tory government sells off some more.  At worst they will sell it themselves.Remember it was that radical Lord Mandelson who first mooted hiving off the Royal Mail.

Phil Andrews ● 4259d

I know what I'd like to see them do - re-nationalise the bloody lot!

Vanessa Smith ● 4259d

Taking into account of course that a price freeze is against eec rules and will encourage the energy companies to sell their product elsewhere...and how will New Labour stop the energy companies putting up their prices before the freeze comes into being,or before the election in the unikely event New Labour wins ?

Keith Iddon ● 4259d

Why is it lazy journalism George?

Keith Iddon ● 4259d

Just for a bit of perspective...."The DWP estimates £3.5bn has been overpaid due to errors and fraud in the system; 2.1 per cent of the overall benefit expenditure.In total, 0.7% of total benefit expenditure was overpaid due to fraud: £1.2bn of the £166.8bn estimated final bill for welfare in 2012/13.A further 0.9% of total benefit expenditure was overpaid following claimant errors, which occur when claimants fail to report changes in their circumstances or their when the information provided is incomplete or inaccurate, but there is no fraudulent intent from claimants.The remaining overpayments were due to similar errors by officials, rather than claimants. The DWP and local authorities have been able to recover an estimated £890m."That means that benefit fraud costs each of us about £20 each year. Of course we'd all like to get that down to zero but (for example) Labour's energy price freeze will save us 6 times as much. Even George Osborne's messing about with energy bills might save some of us 2 1/2 times what fraud costs (if the energy companies decide not to just pocket what he's given them)

Guy Lambert ● 4259d

Fortunately so however extremely costly to us,would it be too far fetched and costly to introduce Finger Print Identity.

Dawn Hardy ● 4259d

The thing is that a lot of these people use different names in different boroughs all at the same time, making multiple claims for various benefits. It is once an eagle eyed fraud officer sees something amiss or it rings a bell that they then investigate and turn up all the information. We must still remember that these cases are relatively few.

Vanessa Smith ● 4260d

It really sickens me to hear this kind of thing happening,a council flat whilst renting a private property that she owned.So many ppl are homeless and in need.

Dawn Hardy ● 4260d

So they should,ppl are having a really rough time and these fraudsters are living a life of Riley.No use finding them out and doing nothing about it.

Dawn Hardy ● 4260d

So it all boils down to the Judge if he says assets will be sold off to repay what was stolen,if he doesn't then they get completely away with the Fraud.It just encourages others and we lose out as usual.

Dawn Hardy ● 4260d

There were quite a few cases but one woman on top of an eighteen month sentence also had to sell her house that she had the nerve to be letting out while claiming housing benefit etc. for a council flat!

Vanessa Smith ● 4260d

I do wonder if these kinds of discussions are generated mainly due the laziness of journalists.Perhaps the editor can tell us why reporting standards are so poor.

George Knox ● 4260d

Out of curiosity what was her sentence and were her assets seized?

Dawn Hardy ● 4260d

Thanks Vanessa,Let us hope that this is what has happened and will happen in the future.Otherwise there really doesn't appear to be a deterrent for Fraud and it is always we that lose out.

Dawn Hardy ● 4260d

If you've ever seen the BC programme Saints and Scoundrels. there have been quite a few big time fraudsters made to sell their ill-gotten gains and also pay back what they've claimed, the courts do make these orders frequently. If the people don't pay the authorities can go back and they can get more jail time.

Vanessa Smith ● 4260d

It might allow for that but unless it is explicitly stated that monies will be reclaimed the public are concerned that they are not imo.

Keith Iddon ● 4260d

The law allows for any monies obtained fraudulently to be paid back and any assets, property etc. gained would also have to be sold and paid back to the taxpayer.

Vanessa Smith ● 4260d

In May, Amanda Webber from Sussex was convicted of fraudulently claiming £350,000 in benefits.

Anne England ● 4260d

In a period of 5 days I have read of 1 woman collecting £109k and sending it home to Nigeria.Another collected £95K although Somalian I doubt she sent it home,now this one of 90k plus.The first 2 did not even receive a Community Sentence,it will be interesting to see what sentence this one will get.We have approx £300 of Benefit Fraud by 3 individuals,that money comes out of mine & your pockets.If they have assets they should be sold and the money put back into our coffers.

Dawn Hardy ● 4260d

As you say fraud is fraud and either tax avoidance or benefit fraud should be pursued with equal vigour. That one accounts for less is hardly the point.

Keith Iddon ● 4261d

I agree with both Keith and Vanessa (unusual?)The H Homes 'fraud' is afaik an allegation rather than anything proven though I have an impression the Council is taking various actions, whereas the benefit fraud is proven in court. If people in H Homes have been nicking money they should be dealt with severely.We all pile in to condemn this whilst busily buying our Christmas presents and coffee from tax dodging companies who 'do nothing illegal': we would do well to boycott some of these (I try to, and it's not difficult).Meanwhile the man who was in charge of HMRC when they let Goldman Sachs off millions of pounds of interest and Vodafone off probable billions of corporation tax has joined the tax practice of KPMG. Oh, but he can't advise on UK tax dodging (perish the thought that he would give informal input). Until the restriction runs out next year.We used to talk about poachers turning into gamekeepers.

Guy Lambert ● 4261d

Fraud is fraud whatever and wherever, but rather than banging on about benefits we should be concerned about the billions lost in defrauding the tax system which makes benefit fiddling look pretty small beer.

Vanessa Smith ● 4261d

Not to my eyes Sarah..if anything it is far worse.

Keith Iddon ● 4261d

Yellow Brick Road and before were pretty good.

Keith Iddon ● 4262d

chris his first four/five albums ok

Robert A Field ● 4262d

Wonder whether a fraud of public money in a company administering the Councils housing is viewed in the same light or is some fraud more acceptable?

Sarah Felstead ● 4262d

I have a criminal record,.  It's an Elton John LP.  I must have a clear out this weekend...

Chris Calvi-Freeman ● 4263d

The default rate on repayment orders is pretty high!Does anyone know whether committing benefit fraud automatically excludes you from claiming future benefits?

Chris Broadbent ● 4263d

Don't you wonder about whether the money has been invested, say in a property, and that public money has increased in value, whether there should be more money asked for beyond the actual sum, costs, etc?

Sarah Felstead ● 4263d

Let's hope so George. It might stop people, including myself, from harrumphing about whether they money is to be repaid or not if it were to be explicitly stated by either the press or the courts.

Keith Iddon ● 4263d

Normally a repayment order is made.Yes the person has a criminal record.

George Knox ● 4263d