Forum Topic

New memorial for Isleworth

Vanessa Smith ● 4562d125 Comments

[URL=http://s1067.photobucket.com/user/Murrance0/media/20140505_141903.jpg.html][IMG]http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u436/Murrance0/20140505_141903.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

Vanessa Smith ● 4562d

Sorry folks - no image - Forum doesn't want to play today!

Vanessa Smith ● 4562d

Testing!

Jim Lawes ● 4562d

I can't wait!  :-)

Sarah Felstead ● 4561d

testing again!Thank you for the letting us know about it Vanessa.

Jim Lawes ● 4561d

At last week's Isleworth Society AGM it was remarked that no one seemed to know who put it there and that the Society wasn't informed of the proposal or invited to the unveiling. JL

Jim Linwood ● 4561d

When everyone at the AGM was asked if they had been invited to the unveiling or even knew about the plan for the memorial there was complete silenceI understand only a select few were invited to the unveiling and I guess we will see who when the photos appear in the local mediaI wonder also if it went though the planning process as its in the Conservation area and it would be a shame if somebody made an objection

Paul Fisher ● 4561d

Maybe Sue paid for it but I must say the first part of the inscription stands alone and the second part should be objected to.  Most people would be totally embarrased at having their name form so much of the inscription.Otherwise does it have a purpose such as allowing people to sit on it to reflect?  Where exactly is it?

Sarah Felstead ● 4561d

Its on the Isleworth Green Sarah on North St/Swan StI have to say that I feel its a real shame the councillor felt the need to use half the plaque for her own vanity and I would feel the same if it was one of my ICG colleagues who had done the sameNo need for it at all

Paul Fisher ● 4561d

The second bit of the inscription doesn't even make sense 'London Borough of Hounslow in 2014'.Sue must be both embarrased and mortified

Chris Broadbent ● 4561d

Even if she paid for this has she never heard of the expression 'Discretion is the better part of valour'? I wonder what her motives were in seemingly hijacking a memorial to those who died. Does she think she is also worthy enough to be remembered forever also .Councillors are temporary, grief and sacrifice are permanent. Another reason to not vote for the local Labour party.

Keith Iddon ● 4561d

So is the Council intending to put these across the Borough. Think of how many died in Brentford including those that died during the V bombs campaign.

Neil Chippendale ● 4561d

It resembles a dogs pee post at present . . and will probably require a bucket of soapy water once a week?

Sarah Felstead ● 4561d

No doubt she can correct us if we are wrong but I would be amazed if she had paid for this with her own money. As for putting her name on it she is either stupid or badly advised (in which case she is also probably stupid for acting on it)

Chris Broadbent ● 4561d

I was vaguely aware that the previous planning considerations for the area around the green meant that the rest was left completely open and not built on, so how does an inappropriately positioned/worded/designed memorial appear on the grass?  Was some section 106 money used?

Sarah Felstead ● 4561d

As a matter of interest...did many bombs land in Isleworth during WWW?And how many locals might have been killed or badly injured?I'm familiar with a lot of the happenings in Chiswick..where, at the local Library a "Civil Defence" book catalogues all the 600+ events in Brentford and Chiswick...where I lived throughout the War except for 3 months evacuation.Has the British Legion been involved with this Memorial Installation?I think it should be removed for being naff... and replaced with appropriate text. It's too Party political in the Old Isleworth war zone.

Jim Lawes ● 4561d

No doubt Sue will be cleaning it to make sure her name stands out (if not, necessarily, for the reasons she would like).

Chris Broadbent ● 4561d

The stone looks glorious... it's just the naff text. It seems that the plaque could be easily replaced.

Jim Lawes ● 4561d

I believe that most of the money came via the local area forum at the request of local people. Rowan the lady who runs the South St. Café was a prime mover in the effort to get a memorial and I don't think there has been any unveiling or anything else due to the halt in proceedings until the local elections are over.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

Forgot to mention that both the RBL and Isleworth Society were on board with the memorial too.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

The wording on the second half clearly needs amending then with erected on behalf of the people of Isleworth, or shopkeepers of Isleworth, or anything but an individual Councillor, don't you think?Was the stone special to the area?  I mean with all the foundations being dug along the river, did it come out of a hole in the ground?  from the river bed?  What is its significance?

Sarah Felstead ● 4560d

I am not sure the Isleworth Society were aware of the plan Vanessa and certainly not the wordingFor the record I think its great that Isleworth now has a memorial to remember those who lost their lives locally on the home front but I just think its a shame that it feels somewhat  hijacked by a local councillor when there was no need for it

Paul Fisher ● 4560d

Vanessa says that there hasn't been any unveiling....but it is unveiled!The plaque IS on view... before the local elections and before any ceremony!It stands out like a Party Political poster...In poor taste.

Jim Lawes ● 4560d

Just checking on the Councillor's previous self promotion indulgenceMaybe that's the norm in South / Old Isleworth.

Jim Lawes ● 4560d

Total number of bombs dropped from 7th October 1940 to 6th June 1941 in Isleworth was 23 high explosive bombs. Not sure how many killed. Haven't yet seen how namy V bombs fell in the area.

Neil Chippendale ● 4560d

"Vanessa says that there hasn't been any unveiling...."So why did they tell untruths on the stone? It clearly states it was unveiled by Sue Sampson. Its set in stone!!

Steve Taylor ● 4560d

The locations within Isleworth ward are shown athttp://bombsight.org/explore/greater-london/hounslow/isleworth/Incidentally, looking at the map for Syon ward, I was surprised at how many had dropped in Kew Gardens. Anyone know if they deliberately decoyed that area to encourage bombers to target it ?

Tim Henderson ● 4560d

A moving account of the 17 October 1940 raid and its aftermath:http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ww2peopleswar/stories/10/a4361410.shtmlJL

Jim Linwood ● 4560d

Paul I know as much as you do - or possibly less, I only found out about the memorial after it was put in place and am going on what I was led to believe. The 'official unveiling' (for Steve's benefit) cannot be held until after the elections.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

Well if Sue Sampson was to lose her seat I cannot see many wanting the unveilling honour

Paul Fisher ● 4560d

Well, that's something none of us can predict.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

Seems this is a real can of worms. A lot of local people are furious that so little consultation re this memorial was undertaken, and I apologise as The Isleworth Society are as perplexed as anyone else as to what has gone on.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

Cannot Sue Sampson or one of her colleagues respond on this Forum thread? They must be aware of the confusion.An announcement is surely needed to enlighten Isleworth folk whose families...or they themselves.. perhaps lived here through the WW2 local bombings.

Jim Lawes ● 4560d

It is very strange that the name of only one ward councillor appears on the plaque and that there was no official public unveiling ceremony.  Normally these memorials are erected either by the borough, the parish or by an organisation such as the Royal British Legion.The first V-2 rocket that fell on London came down on No 5  Staveley Road, Chiswick on 8th September 1944 killing three local residents. There is a modest memorial on the site and no names are mentioned. There is further information on a short U Tube videohttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmiAtVqCY9k

David Giles ● 4560d

So if Sue (Mystic Meg) gets it wrong and loses her seat and someone (I'm guessing this won't be Sue) has to pay for a new and dare I say it more appropriate dedication plaque? Apart from the cost you could be forgiven for thinking that Sue losing ger seat solves many issues.

Chris Broadbent ● 4560d

Hubris (/ˈhjuːbrɪs/, also hybris, from ancient Greek ὕβρις), means extreme pride or self-confidence. Hubris often indicates a loss of contact with reality and an overestimation of one's own competence, accomplishments or capabilities, especially when the person exhibiting it is in a position of power. The adjectival form of the noun hubris is "hubristic".Just in case you didn't have a dictionary, or access online had been restricted.

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 4560d

Lose her seat?  With all the families waiting outside the school wandering over to take a look and reading her name attached to lose who suffered in WW2?  This is a Green and should be left as such for people to freely use.  How long before a kiddie falls over it when running backwards and hits their head?  Or somebody wandering across the green after a nightcap in the local trips over it?

Sarah Felstead ● 4560d

Also I think there is an expression that goes something along the lines of 'Pride often comes before a fall'.

Keith Iddon ● 4560d

Quite.Also I believe there is an expression that goes something along the lines of 'Pride often comes before a fall'.

Keith Iddon ● 4560d

"Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall."

Huw Burford-Taylor ● 4560d

I have been past and had a closer look.From the photograph at the beginning of the thread I thought the stone was much smaller, but it is a substantial height – level with the posts of the fencing around the green and, as Jim says it is a lovely piece of stone.Nobody is going to fall over it, but the kiddies will climb on it, and there will always be that occasional leap frogger returning from the pub.  It looks very splendid I would say.Positioning wise, I still think the Green is a Green, but it is tucked to the side between trees directly opposite and facing the school.If there were ever to be a gathering around it then it is facing the wrong way, so I don’t know what its purpose is other than its message to remind people of the suffering of local people during WW2.If it were an advertising venture to get the name of a political person 'out there' then there are many Councillors having their eye teeth taken out, as I write.What is missing is an information board giving background details of war damage and maybe a map.  It is bound to make it onto the local History tours, don’t you think?Maybe there have been discussions with the school to bring it up as a topic in their local History lessons too?  Possibly not because nobody appears to know much about its background, and a class visit would not be very safe as it is facing the road/school. 

Sarah Felstead ● 4560d

Around the corner in Memorial Square there are plenty of respectful spots to site an additional memorial but the wording should come under close scrutiny before it joins the Boroughs places of respect.

Sarah Felstead ● 4560d

IMHO this would be much better if it listed the names of those it purports to commemorate - the people who lost their lives during the bombing. At least Sue "Foxhunter" Sampson hasn't included her party affiliations on the plaque.

Richard Greenhough ● 4560d

During the war bomb designers used Kew Gardens as a testing ground with holes made the pagoda’s floors so they could drop models of their latest designs from top to bottom. Perhaps the Germans knew this.JL

Jim Linwood ● 4560d

I think the good people of Isleworth are entitled to know who gave permission for this memorial, who paid for it and why was it unveiled by Councillor Sue Sampson, who is only one of the three ward councillors in Isleworth. Normally such memorials are unveiled by some eminent person  such as the Mayor, the MP or the Lord Lieutenant. The memorial in Staveley Road,  Chiswick to the victims of the V2 that fell on 8th September 1944 was sponsored by the Brentford and Chiswick Local History Society and the Battlefield Trust. The very appropriate speeches made on that occasion,including speeches from James Wisdom, the Chair of the Brentford and Chiswick Local History Society, the Mayor of Hounslow and Councillor Paul Lynch can be read  here athttp://www.chiswickw4.com/default.asp?section=info&page=conv204.htm

David Giles ● 4560d

All I know is that it went through the local area committee who contributed towards it, more than that I cannot help with.

Vanessa Smith ● 4560d

Do you know which meeting Vanessa as I have searched previous minutes and cannot find the funding application?

Paul Fisher ● 4560d

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/local-news/new-war-memorial-sparks-political-7086887

Jim Lawes ● 4559d

What I can see now is Labour engaging in some kind of campaign to suggest that the ICG is opposed to the whole idea of a memorial, or that we have tried to bring politics into the sacred area of war remembrance (which of course is precisely what Councillor Sampson quite consciously tried to do with her tacky inscription and her hurried installation of the stone without any consultation with local heritage societies or residents' groups).Isleworth politics is nothing if not predictable with these people.

Phil Andrews ● 4559d

The names of those who died during the bombings on the plaque would have been far more apropriate than the aparrent self promotion of a councillor. The current inscription shows a distinct lack of class.

Andrew Sibley ● 4559d

Paul I'm afraid I have no idea, I will try and find out. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot, unbelievable.

Vanessa Smith ● 4559d

To quote Ms Sampson said people had been asking for years for a memorial to those killed in wartime bombings, and residents had wanted her name to appear on the plaque.Does she really expect us to believe this and even if it were true she could still have done the right thing and insisted that her name wasn't mentioned.But then I guess doing the right thing isn't actually that important to Sue

Chris Broadbent ● 4559d

Proposal for a war memorial plaque in Isleworth:"Members received an update on the proposal to provide a war memorial plaque in Isleworth to commemorate all those local residents who had lost their lives in the bombings during the war. Members were supportive of this proposal, which would be funded from the Community Engagement budget allocation." It seems that the matter had been discussed at the Isleworth and Brentford Area Committee on 30th January 2014...and  the COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT fund was used!

Jim Lawes ● 4559d

So not really requested for years then and who took the decision to have Cllr Sampsons name on it?

Paul Fisher ● 4559d

So Sue Sampson's idea of community engagement is to have her name plastered all over a war memorial instead of the names of those who actually lost their lives?

Andrew Sibley ● 4559d

Also the memorial could have been unveiled by a relative of one of the deceased.

Keith Iddon ● 4559d

Sue - you were on the forum just a few days ago commenting on misrepresenting of fact.  Surely you would want to put the record straight with regard this thread that is basically about your name inappropriately appearing on the memorial? 

Matthew Taylor ● 4559d

It does seem to be wholly inappropriate that only the name of one ward councillor appears on the memorial. The plaque should be removed and replaced by something more appropriate. If the plaque has been erected recently then perhaps the cost of the memorial and plaque should be included in Sue Sampson's election expenses ?

David Giles ● 4559d

They couldn't even set the thing square in the middle of the chippings. Lazy.

Ian Silver ● 4559d

Here is a list of the names of civilians who should be on the memorial. All are listed as official civilian war dead and whose addresses are listed as Isleworth, this includes Brentford End. Not all died in the town and not all died due to enemy action.Donald Ralph AllumHarold Bert Baxter Betty Elizabeth Belton Shirley BenwellFlorence Emma Gertrude Bigwood Laura Gertrude Bigwood William Charles Cox Edward Lionel Crook Florence EvansFlorence Beatrice FarrerRebecca Caroline Flitton Rita June Ford Frederick Flood Harold Edmund Goodlace Dorothy GunnMargaret Julia GuyElizabeth GreensmythAlfred GrovesWilliam James Hawkes Dorothy Hayes Thomas Frederick Hayes Gillian Hessey Lily Augusta HornblowAlfred Ernest James Alfred James Edith Ellen JamesGeorge  Joseph Herbert Kaine Edith Ethel Kaine Irene MallonJohn MiddletonMonica MiddletonRaymond MiddletonJoan Margaret Moore Stanley Robert MooreAda Norman Cecilia Frances Penfold Shirley Ann Seager Elizabeth Smith Irene Smith John Henry Smith Winifred SmithCharles Herbert SweetAlice Maude Thompson Eliza May Underhill John Underhill Irene Wells Minnie Elizabeth WhiteCharles Henry White William Arthur Whitfield Daphne Pauline Williams Peter Barry Williams William Victor Williams Elsie Maud Willis Jennie Williams

Neil Chippendale ● 4558d

NeilThanks for that. A larger memorial plaque may be needed if all of the approximately 55 names you have listed are going to be included on the plaque - as is customary on war memorials. What is particularly sad is that quite a few people with the same family name are listed. There are 4 Smiths for example. Some months ago I was in the Leeds City Museum and I was surprised to learn that relatively few civilians were killed there as a result of German bombing. 65 people were killed in Leeds on the night of 14 March 1941 but overall I seem to remember that the total number who died as a result of enemy bombing in the city of Leeds during the entire duration of the war was less than 80. Isleworth certainly seemed to have suffered disproportionately compared to a big city like Leeds.

David Giles ● 4558d

The numbers could be cut down by working out those that died due to enemy action. All of those names though are listed as official war dead

Neil Chippendale ● 4557d

Sorry should have said listed by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Sadly some deaths are obvious , Packard's factory and the Council Depot. Also those families that died at the same address. I also think you can tell if a person died due to enemy action by the hospital they died in.31 people died at Packard's factory in March 1945.

Neil Chippendale ● 4557d

Seems more empathy,thought and inclusiveness could have gone into what is unfortunately turning into a sorry episode in the history of local remembrance memorials.

Keith Iddon ● 4557d

I would hope that, if she is re-elected, Sue will do something to make good this shambles, maybe by having a proper ceremony to which all the groups who should be involved are invited rather than it remaining the sole preserve of her own little group of friends, flatterers, groupies and hangers-on, which sadly has always been the Labour way in these parts.I think we will have to live with the fact that her name features obtrusively on what is supposed after all to be a commemoration of our war dead as it would be inappropriate to alter something that means so much to so many people, and if she has done the work she claims to have done in bringing this project to fruition then I would not deny her some recognition of that fact, albeit it could have been more subtle and less obviously done with the election in mind.Maybe by introducing something supplementary on which the names of the war dead could be listed, as has been suggested, a better sense of proportion could be achieved?

Phil Andrews ● 4557d

which is well celebrated in Isleworth as you all know, will the throng of those attending be waiting at the long established War Memorial opposite Gumley House and looking out for the procession to arrive for the 11am service?Or will they wonder if they ought to be at least viewing and acknowledging Councillor Sampson's one on the Green?No statement yet from Ward Councillors. Is that normal?

Jim Lawes ● 4557d

As David said..."It does seem to be wholly inappropriate that only the name of one ward councillor appears...."There does seem to be a pattern of such happenings... Some months back a Forum poster said “Unfortunately it seems many residents are being put off attending (an Isleworth Community Event)because of the insistence of a Councillor wanting her name on the flyers and posters which makes it look like this will be a political event rather then a community get together."One can see what he referred to:Sadly our sniping now seems excessive but we're getting no response from those involved.

Jim Lawes ● 4556d

Sounds like she's a bit of a publicity crazed bitch.Uuuuurgghh

Ian Silver ● 4556d

She hasn't been involved with the community or engaged with the community since she was elected so you have no chance of her responding now.

Steve Taylor ● 4556d

Sounds as though Sue Sampson could be a worthy challenger to Jason Ellar for the title of most useless Labour Councillor.

Chris Broadbent ● 4556d

Vanessa, what led you to think the RBL and the Isleworth Society were on board regards this?

Neil Chippendale ● 4556d

I thought - mistakenly as it turned out, that both were mentioned to me during a conversation very recently and after the damned thing was put in situ, with someone who lives locally. I knew nothing at all about it, had I done so I think I'd have advised that getting people on board before you charge ahead would be a sensible thing to do. As it is it must be the daftest case of someone shooting themselves in the foot - ever.

Vanessa Smith ● 4556d

The more I think about this th more distasteful this memorial seems in that it seems to remember in stone the name of only one person.

Keith Iddon ● 4556d

Can I please place on record, in full anticipation of all the opprobrium that I will attract by so doing, that I was warned by a third party that the intention was that the memorial would be defaced shortly before the election and that the ICG would be the scapegoat of choice on the ensuing leaflets which would have been produced after the "attack" at very short notice (as with the "firebomb" in 2006 to which Jim referred earlier)?I would like also to place on record that I have absolutely no idea whatsoever as to whether or not there was any truth in this "information".  My interest in highlighting this is not to try to score points, but rather to deter such a thing from actually happening.

Phil Andrews ● 4556d

Phil, shouldn't you discuss this with the local Police team?

Sarah Felstead ● 4556d

The IBAF minutes referred to earlier :61. Open ForumProposal for a war memorial plaque in Isleworth:Members received an update on the proposal to provide a war memorial plaque in Isleworth tocommemorate all those local residents who had lost their lives in the bombings during the war.Members were supportive of this proposal, which would be funded from the CommunityEngagement budget allocation.A boroughwide programme to identify all memorials and arrange a ‘deep clean’ was already inthe pipeline. Further suggestions for community engagement activities relating to thecentenary commemorations of the war were welcomed.seem to indicate that the topic had been discussed previously. The minutes don't record who provided the update in this "Open Forum" section at the end of the meeting. I have failed to find an earlier reference but there was an item on the future of the Area Forum at a meeting on 30th October 2012. This has a slide presentation which included :" IBAF Community ParticipationDeveloping a new set of Area Forum priorities•There is a need to develop a new list of Area Forum priorities•Subject to a public consultation via e-survey?•IBAF has also been allocated a £5k pot for a ‘special project’ this year. Could be to:–improve community engagement–or potentially to help facilitate achievement of one of our priorities, following public consultation on them "and the minutes recorded :"Councillor Harmer drew attention to the £5,000 available for community engagement purposes. He referenced the special project undertaken by this Area Forum in recent years to move the St Lawrence War Memorial to its current location. It was suggested that the funding should be used towards a ‘legacy’ project rather than on one-off community events."

Tim Henderson ● 4556d

I've done that Sarah, but obviously they are not going to sit on the green all night every night between now and the election in anticipation of something that may not now happen, or indeed may never have been going to happen in the first place.

Phil Andrews ● 4556d

as I was saying...http://instagram.com/p/giL3cSBgqJ/

Jim Lawes ● 4555d

What a load of twaddle.Get lives people, you're mnissing out

Ian Silver ● 4555d

Sorry Ian, are you saying commemorating civilian war dead is "a load of twaddle"?

Neil Chippendale ● 4555d

"Phil, shouldn't you discuss this with the local Police team?""By all means let's be open minded but not so open that our brains drop out." Richard Dawkins.

Vanessa Smith ● 4555d

Personally I dont think I would be responsible for my actions if I saw anyone defacing a war memorial regardless if a councillors name was on it or not

Paul Fisher ● 4555d

No.

Ian Silver ● 4555d

Quite simple really, this is something for the local Police to think about as a 'threat' or potential 'threat'.  Extra worth in considering is the 'fact' last time that a local candidate had an 'arson' attack on their bin ... or so comments lead us to 'knowing' this information.  These are crimes and not for dealing with on here, methinks.

Sarah Felstead ● 4555d

Until it is unveiled the memorial should have a protective cover over it, covering up the dedication, surely?

Sarah Felstead ● 4555d

The failure of the Isleworth Ward Councillors (all Labour Party)to enlighten us all .somehow..is appalling.Perhaps "we" should be phoning their mobiles.. or texting them..or at least sending them emails. Their details are on the Hounslow Council website... for communication purposes presumably.Also, I wonder why this Website's front page news column is quiet on the after too! Is our dear Editor biased?

Jim Lawes ● 4555d

Jim the fact that Sue Sampson can't be bothered to offer an explanation (an apology is perhaps too much to hope for)for her actions speaks volumes as to the contempt in  which she holds her electorate.

Chris Broadbent ● 4555d

Or she's been told to keep quiet.

Andrew Sibley ● 4555d

Perhaps(to use the well known political phrase) Sue is spending more time with her family and friends (albeit not the ones that have recently joined rival political parties)

Chris Broadbent ● 4555d

Surely he is upset because his name is not on the plaque ?

David Giles ● 4555d

Grow up.

Vanessa Smith ● 4555d

A reminder of what we are talking about.

Jim Lawes ● 4555d

Sarah Felstead ● 4555d

http://instagram.com/p/giL3cSBgqJ/Yours is a top picture Sarah. A glorious stone. Must have been a heavyweight to transport and deliver. Pity about the inscription and unveiling matter.The other appropriate picture to see is the one... url above. It's part of the Official War Memorial in Memorial Square (the address of the Church too).

Jim Lawes ● 4555d

Absolutely Jim.

Sarah Felstead ● 4554d

Get funding from the local Area Council Committee, (that's our money), spend it and if many people ask questions...say nothing.In fact they've probably been told by their Political Bosses to say nothing.Come back Alan Sherrins (Labour)..all is forgiven!  At least you did respond to questions on the Forums...even if your replies were often gobbledigook.

Jim Lawes ● 4552d

The silnce of the Labour Councillors on this issue is very revealing.Councillor Sue Sampson has made a massive mistake in the worst possible taste and her collaegues are unwilling to defend her.If people want to vote out Councillor Sampson, Councillor Ed Mayne  and the current inept Labour administration in Hounslow, the logical thing to do is to vote Conservative.The Conservative Party is the only party capable of winning overall control of Hounslow Council from the Labour Party. Votes for other parties or candidates are in effect votes for Labour.

David Giles ● 4552d

The list of some of the issues that the local labour party is shocking and deosn't inspire confidence in their ability to run a council:A local party that has been placed in special measures by Labour Head Office over allegations of vote riggingCouncillors who get confused over the distincion between personal agendas and doing the right thing especially when it related to planning issuesJason Ellar who got elected and then failed to turn up to the vast majority of council meetingsSue Sampson who decided that if there could only be one name on a memorial to people who lost their lives in the second world war then it should be hers.

Chris Broadbent ● 4552d

I'm not an Isleworth ward constituent, but I don't think I would share David's analysis.According to electoralcalculushttp://www.electoralcalculus.co.uk/cgi-bin/calcwork.pl?oldseat=Brentford%20and%20Isleworththeir ward breakdown for Isleworth shows a pretty weak level of support for the Conservatives in the ward . Voting for one of the "other" candidates may be more likely to be successful if people did want to vote out Labour councillors.I would agree that the Conservative group is the only party likely to be capable of winning overall control - but until we get proportional representation I don't think David's strategy is logical.Of course, so much depends on the candidates - and at the moment, in my ward, I am strongly tempted to use my three votes on candidates from three different parties.....

Tim Henderson ● 4552d

"Jason Ellar who got elected and then failed to turn up to the vast majority of council meetings"And don't forget the £40k or so in councillor's allowances that he has pocketed while at university.

Andrew Sibley ● 4551d

"Councillor Sue Sampson has made a massive mistake in the worst possible taste and her collaegues are unwilling to defend her."I would further suggest that Councillor Sampsons massive blunders and her contempt for the electorate and blatant refusal to comment, have done some serious damage to Ruth Cadbury's chances in the General Election. Mary Macleod must be laughing all the way to the bank.

Steve Taylor ● 4551d

I cannot for the life of me see what on earth this has to do with Ruth Cadbury's chances next year. Then it will be national issues that are debated, and the coalition's record under scrutiny. Remember this week's news is tomorrow's fish and chip wrapper, and a week, never mind a year, is a long time in politics.

Vanessa Smith ● 4551d

Using newspapers as fish and chips wrappers is now deemed unsafe, Vanessa! In any case Ruth is quite capable of upsetting people herself without Sampson assisting her.

Ian Speed ● 4551d

In other words we'll do what we like now and the plebs will have forgotten it by next year.  Never let you down do they, politicians?

Phil Andrews ● 4551d

Well that would be your interpretation wouldn't it? It is a fact that things move very quickly in politics, and things move on, but I'm sure you'll stir it up enough if required.

Vanessa Smith ● 4550d

If required I certainly shall.Hopefully though Ruth will have the decency to place some distance between herself and this fiasco rather than continuing to remain silent in the hope that it will go away.  Then it won't be required.

Phil Andrews ● 4550d

""I cannot for the life of me see what on earth this has to do with Ruth Cadbury's chances""Well I don't really subscribe to ""a week is a long time in politics"". Hounslow is a Labour Borough but Macleod got in simply because people were fed up of the double standards of the Keen's. Labour supporters were disgusted with her and hence the party she represented. Ruth has made no attempt to reign in Sue Sampson or apologise for her blunders. The Labour party will be punished because of her just as it was punished because of Mrs Keen.

Steve Taylor ● 4550d

""rather than continuing to remain silent in the hope that it will go away.""Precisely, and the longer she remains silent, the longer people will remember her lack of backbone or leadership skills. Come the next GE election do you think people will have forgotten Labours Treasury Sec, Liam Burne leaving a snickering note for the Conservatives telling them not to bother looking for the money as there wasn't any? Labour had squandered it and got us into huge debt!! People won't forget the  Sue Sampson disgrace and unfortunately for Ruth Cadbury their grinning faces appear next to each other in the glossy photo's on thousands of brochures.

Steve Taylor ● 4550d

You haven't a clue have you? "Ruth has made no attempt to reign in Sue Sampson or apologise for her blunders."Ruth can't do anything of the sort she is the Parliamentary candidate and another councillor. I would think she is far too busy with the campaign in Brentford to start interfering in another ward.

Vanessa Smith ● 4549d

'I cannot for the life of me see what on earth this has to do with Ruth Cadbury's chances next year. Then it will be national issues that are debated'I don't think that this is entirely true - local issues do have an impact on how people vote in general elections. It is widely acknowledged within Labour Party Central HQ that Ann Keen's behaviour with her expenses cost the party many votes.

James Robinson ● 4549d

As I am sure was the case with many of the M.Ps caught up in the exes scandal. But they have the remedy in their own hands - I am sure people would far rather see them get an decent increase in their pay and NO other odds and sods, ditto bankers and NHs managers and anyone else on a humungous bonus. The vast majority of people have to get by with what they earn so should all these other people and if they don't like it they should head for Heathrow, pronto.

Vanessa Smith ● 4549d

Vanessa totally agree with you we really need to get to a mind set where people do the right think both form an ethical and legal perspective. Whether that is the investment banker refusing his bonus where he has taken an inappropriate level of risk or the likes of Jason Ellar not claiming expenses for not turning up to meetings. Sadly I hold out little hope of a change

James Robinson ● 4549d

"It is widely acknowledged within Labour Party Central HQ that Ann Keen's behaviour with her expenses cost the party many votes."It sure did. She won 18,329 votes in the 2005 general election. This collapsed to 18,064 in the 2010 general election.

Greg Walker ● 4549d

In 2005 she won In 2010 she was 'booted out' in the current Labour Party terminology. Those are the salient points.

Ian Speed ● 4549d

But there were more votes cast in 2010 than 2005 - it was Ann Keen's inability to capture these that cost her the election with the inference that her attitude towards expenses had made her unelectable and generated a significant protest vote against her.

James Robinson ● 4549d

"you haven't a clue have you"Err, actually you haven't a clue. Ruth was campaigning on the streets and knocking on doors together with the three labour candidates in Isleworth canvassing support for them. She is very much at the forefront of the Council election and should have reined in Sue Sampson or apologise for her. She isn't as you put it too busy with the General Election. What tosh!

Steve Taylor ● 4546d

Ruth does not have the authority, as I said - and you have as usual got it wrong, she is too busy campaigning in Brentford as a council candidate. Yes, she has as Parliamentary candidate been around all wards during the last month or so, but talk of her 'reigning in' anyone is tripe.

Vanessa Smith ● 4546d

Sorry Vanessa but Steve Taylor says that she was in Isleworth with the 3 candidates one which I presume was Sue Sampson. So on that day she was involved in the Isleworth campaign,  not just Brentford and clearly supporting the 3 candidates. Wether she should tell Sue Sampson to make a statement re the memorial I think that up to her and Sue to discuss and how much weight they put on Cadbury being the Labour Parliamentry candidate.

Neil Chippendale ● 4546d

who I understand wants to be an MP.

David Giles ● 4546d

Sorry Vanessa but you are wrong.  I know Ruth quite well and she knocked on my door IN ISLEWORTH with her 3 Labour buddies and asked me if I would vote for them in the COUNCIL elections. I told her quite frankly and in a friendly manner that I would vote for the ICG as they had done tremendous good work in the past and especially as they had secured such a huge victory against ThamesWater over Mogden and secured damages for the victims. She told me she totally understood and respected that stance and Ed Mayne then said perhaps I could vote for just one or 2 ICG and 1 or 2 Labour... Ruth then asked who I would vote in the EURO and the next GE. I told her I was undecided but if it was any consolation my wife was extremely unhappy with Mary Macleod and she could read into that what she will. I also told her that I was reasonably sure my daughter would vote ICG because she was well pleased with what they had done about Mogden but I had no idea at all about how she would vote in the EURO or the General. Read into it what you will but I firmly believe that Ruth was there to prop up and secure support for the crumbling  Labour Council. She certainly was not on my doorstep if she was too busy with her General Election campaign.  Her question on my intentions for the GE were purely secondary because she knew she had no chance of securing and change from me in my stance for the local election. We parted with a laugh and a joke!

Steve Taylor ● 4545d

No,no,no Ruth can have an informal chat with any candidate but what she does not have is the AUTHORITY to actually dictate to people. That is what the party officers are for, yes Ruth has been out campaigning for the locals and, as an aside, next year's election, but that still has no bearing on the fact she is not in a position as an individual to throw her weight around with other councillors.

Vanessa Smith ● 4545d

I wonder if now that Sue has been elected she sees it as some justification of her name appearing on the memorial. As far as I am concerned nothing has changed as regards having a steward's enquiry about the whole shabby episode. Don't suppose we'll be hearing from her anytime soon.

Keith Iddon ● 4531d

Yes, this has been a very shabby piece of work that does not reflect well on the Labour Party or on its PPC, Ruth Cadbury.Today is the 70th Anniversray of D Day, lest we not forget.

David Giles ● 4530d

I am glad to hear that.

David Giles ● 4527d

Glad to hear what?

Steve Taylor ● 4493d